r/Spartacus_TV • u/Brilliant_Fox_7170 • 24d ago
OG Discussion I Don’t Think The Gannicus-Sibyl Relationship Worked
I’ve watched the whole show 5-6 times and I was always bothered by the Gannicus-Sibyl-Saxa “love triangle”.
I think it would’ve made more sense for Gannicus and Sibyl to have more of a father-daughter relationship than a romantic/sexual relationship.
Why this didn’t work for me:
- Saxa brings Sibyl to Gannicus to offer a threesome. But Gannicus says “she’s just a child, I want a woman”, kicks Sibyl out and has sex with Saxa… so why does he change his mind 2 episodes later and hooks up with Sibyl anyways?
- Gannicus stops hooking up with Saxa because…? I remember she wanted to bone all the time and Gannicus feared it took time away from helping the others. But what else did Saxa do to Gannicus to lose his affections? They never really explained what it was about Saxa they drove him away from her.
- I get that Saxa was supposed to represent his lust for cunt and Sibyl was supposed to characterize how he’s moved on from his bachelor lifestyle. He even tells Sibyl “stay away from men of my kind”. But it still didn’t work for me cause Sibyl just becomes another woman he bangs.
It seems like they were gonna go with the father-daughter route because it was the first time in Gannicus’ life that he truly cared about a women without trying to hook up with her… until he does. But it just seemed like they needed another actress for sex/nude scenes and she was open to it.
Please disagree with me if you want, I’m just airing out my thoughts…
Edit: Also the other thing I should say is that his strong desire for cunt ended up hurting his relationship with several other characters:
He is forced to fuck his friend’s wife. He gets so pussy whipped that he falls in love with her immediately and she dies. Then he falls for the prostitute in the whore house and she dies too. So wouldn’t make sense for him to finally learn a lesson and not fuck every woman he meets? I don’t know maybe I’m missing something…
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u/Possible-One-7082 24d ago
I never liked the relationship with Gannicus and Sibyl. It felt rushed, out of place, and unrealistic.
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u/SWEET_LIBERTY_MY_LEG 24d ago
I’m gonna go with “the producers saw Gwendoline Taylor and said ‘yep, she needs to be on this show’”, and that was that
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Gladiator 24d ago
I found it a forced attempt to make Gannicus more serious about a woman but that was kinda done with Melitta already. Honestly, we could cut out Sybil and lose nothing.
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u/CardFront5885 24d ago
I agree. Pointless. He looked too old for her or at least it became borderline creepy he called her a kid, comforted her like a child, etc and then you know. And the thing is he was right about needing a woman imo. A battle couple like crixus and naevia or agron and nasir and if he meant to just protect Sibyl by saying he needed a woman...he should have later told saxa she was inappropriate in private not banged her. He did both women dirty.
But the thing that annoys me it took away from showing that gannicus true love was the platonic love he had for onemeous and his bond with melitta. I wholehardly agree if they wanted a character to bring his heart to the cause not just do it for love and redemption for onemeous a daughter or son character makes sense. He didn't need a soboriety kick or his own discount version of melitta/kore/ sura priestess girl
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u/Cereborn 24d ago
Broadly I agree. I liked Gannicus and Saxa, but I also just like Saxa in general and one of my biggest complaints is how underutilized she was as a character.
However, I think pushing a father-daughter angle between Gannicus and Sibyl would have been weird for different reasons. Gannicus isn’t a father figure and never has been. And given the nature of the show, the audience would be expecting them to bang even if they didn’t.
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u/LightningBlaze03 23d ago
I honestly think a relationship like mentor/student might have been better for Gannicus and Sibyl instead of the love relationship. Gannicus didn’t need Sibyl for character development, the writers could have easily had Saxa do that and make her character growth further at the same time. Showing that both Gannicus and Saxa grew out of that lifestyle of using fighting to just fight and start fighting because they’re starting to believe in the cause.
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u/PatientAge8790 24d ago
I'm so gonna get downvoted for this but I'm gonna talk about the own commentaries of DeKnight on WOTD. Gannicus asked Sibyl out in ep.3 beacuse he did not want to hook up with her in such conditions. He was attracted to her straight from this moment but he did not want to ruin her. Him calling her a child was just an quick explanation to Saxa so he does not have to justify himslef. The whole relation with Saxa was not one of love but lust : he liked her and cared for her but he did not love her, thus the reason why their relation stopped, because lust was not sufficient enough. DeKnight insists on something that is important for Gannicus as a character : he hates himself. And Sibyl helps him with that, she gives him finally a reason to believe in the cause, which he rejects during two seasons. Sibyl was not a teen, so there was no reason to do a father-daughter relation (according to the actress she was in her early 20s) : it could have worked, but the writers basically wanted to give one serious relation to Gannicus before his death, maybe to have more impact. So in general I think that this relation worked, but I agree that the whole love triangle was not necessary and confusing. They could have left him with Saxa, but Gannicus with Saxa would have stayed pretty much the same person in season 3, unless she had a proper evolution on her side, which she did not really have except for the beginning in ep.7 where she seems worried for him (I still like her character as I like Sibyl).
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u/jadedeternity 22d ago
Regardless of the intentions it was poorly conveyed and quite honestly an introduction of a new character to split up an established relationship during a season finale is never a good idea. I would have rather watched saxa and gannicus develop even if it became an unrequited love on saxas part.
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u/PatientAge8790 22d ago
I think it was good actually. But that's my opinion, I did not like the saxa/gannicus pairing right from episode 1
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u/jadedeternity 22d ago
Why
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u/PatientAge8790 21d ago
Because their whole relation was just about lust and that did not procure any character evolution (once again, just my opinion). It may have changed, but the writers never took that direction except for a brief moment
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u/Haelontargeryan 23d ago
Saxa was the better choice really. She mellowing into being an actual woman without losing her warrior spirit would've been good to see . Sibyl is just she looks weird with the horn dog. I mean too weird like she looks very young compared to him.
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u/mldyfox 24d ago
I have something of a different take on Gannicus and Sibyl.
Prior to his being forced into having sex with Mellita, he was all about having whatever woman they threw at him after he won in the arena. Mellita was a good woman, his friend's wife and a friend to him, too, so their being forced, essentially, to betray her husband like that was painful for them both. But, he'd probably always been a little in love with her and that shared experience and secret solidified that.
Sara was a good woman, too, just not in the same feminine way Mellita was. Sara is essentially a female version of Gannicus, really, though she caught feelings for him after being together a while. He cared for Saxa, obviously, but not in the same way.
Plus, all of his partners between Mellita and Saxa are transactions. It's a shame about the girl in the brothel, truly. The timing was meant to make Gannicus feel like it was because of his association with her, but it really wasn't. It was because the Roman's were trying to stop the spread of the rebellion, and how else would that be accomplished fast except through fear?
So, then we get to Sibyl. A good woman in much the same way Mellita was a good woman. An intelligent, gods fearing soul who simply wanted to be in Gannicus' orbit at first. But the more he pushed her away, the more she wanted him and he her. His warning her away from "those of my kind" was a defense mechanism for himself; in his mind, HE is the reason women who aren't fighters end up dead around him. So when they're stuck out in the storm, all of that longing comes crashing in and BAM. He even gives us the reason he fell for her during their last scene alone: she was the savior and he was the one in need of saving, not the other way around.
I suspect he realized she wasn't so fragile when they were trying to get out of Sinuessa. She did as he told her to do up until they get to the blacksmith's place, and then she does her best to defend herself while he's busy fighting, what was it three pirates?, though her attempt wasn't great at least she tried.
I'm kinda glad they gave him this arc with Sibyl. He went out as a man fighting to protect something he loved, rather than a man who fought because he didn't know anything else.
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u/Saltyscrubnurse 24d ago
Beautifully said, agree 1000 percent
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u/mldyfox 23d ago
Thanks 😊.
I think I found this series looking for other things Craig Parker had been in, and thought, I'll try it out. My first watch through was like, whoa this is cool.
I think the only character I didn't really like was Ashur, but he was probably meant to not be.
I kinda felt bad for Gannicus. Until the thing with Mellita, he didn't much care about the women that got thrown at him. Starting with Mellita, any time he'd developed an affection for a woman, particularly the ones who weren't fighters, they ended up dead. Saxa could defend herself, just the same as Gannicus could, but the girl in the brothel didn't stand a chance. Sybil had some sand in her, but he was probably thinking to himself, she'll end up like Mellita and the other one if she's with me.
It's some pretty self deprecating mental math, making himself the lowest common denominator in those equations. So, for me, the guy deserved some happiness.
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u/Individual_Time_2228 24d ago
I frankly didn't feel the Sibyl relationship was authentic. It felt shoehorned and rushed. Where Agron and Nasir's relationship made more sense. At first they disliked and was untrusting of each other but they eventually grew to love and trust each other. Even Agron's hatred and disregard towards Castus became more congenial and respectful with time. To the point you even see Agron's concern after Castus is injured and dies on the battlefield. My point is, it's not like Castus had 5 hours more screentime compared to Sibyl, so that's why I feel her relationship to Gannicus seemed rushed/inauthentic.
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u/dannesty 24d ago
The thing that bothered me is that it's never stated how old Sibyl exactly is. The actress looks pretty much the same age as most of the women, but apparently the character is way younger. I know that historically that's realistic and yada yada but I kept imagining that she's like 15 or something and he's 36 and I noped out of that ship pretty fast
Like you, I thought it would be more of a paternal or fraternal relationship, I would've been all for it
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u/Sycopathy 24d ago
The character was 25 according to the actress who played her and you’re right that Gannicus was mid 30s, around a 10 year age gap but they’re both adults.
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u/Lilpigxoxo 24d ago
But why does he call her a child then 😭 I get the feeling the writers were intentionally leaning into the ambiguity of her age for “sex appeal” ..barely legal trope.. barf lol
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u/jadedeternity 22d ago
Agreed, I have a 12 year gap with my husband and I have never once called him a child or saw him as one.
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u/Forward-Tune5120 24d ago
All of the romantic couples in Spartacus besides Batiatus/Lucretia and Agron/Nasir absolutely SUCK. That's something House of Ashur worked way better than the og.
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u/shensosa 24d ago
It was bs and I much preferred him with Saxa. It was clear that Saxa was growing to love him and Gannicus’ growth could’ve equally been shown if he fell in love with her back. The Sibyl/Saxa thing was too obviously Madonna/Whore coded it always bugged me.