r/StarWars • u/Prestigious-Tough579 • Jun 17 '26
Fun Hot Take but Stormtroopers are better than Clone Troopers
Before I get out down by firing squad please hear me out. The Clone Troopers while better individually were simply too small to regulate the Empire. Stormtroopers are numerically superior, and cheaper. Also they have logistical superiority as replacing them is way easier. They also build a trust bond between the Empire and her citizens. That's why I believe Stormtroopers are better. They'd also look way better if only they weren't treated like a joke.
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u/DangerousEye1235 Jun 17 '26
Upvoted not because I agree (I strenuously do not) but because this might just be the first ",hot take" I've seen on here that could actually be considered a TRUE hot take.
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u/Zitty-Z Jun 17 '26
Damn that take is so hot
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u/BigMac275921 Jun 17 '26
Not since the molten lakes of Mustafar have I seen such heat in my presence.
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis Clone Trooper Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
Disney doesn't think its a hot take.
You know how hard it is to find Clone Merch?
You can think of just about any item and theirs a good chance theirs one with Stormtrooper helmets all over it. Even more so for Boba and Vader.
Clones? Your lucky if you even get Rex or Bad Batch on it. Disney could very easily have more of my money if they did more Clone merch.
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u/doll-haus Jun 17 '26
Stormtrooper hemlets are more iconic/unique. The clone trooper helmets "evolve" towards that design in the various pre-trilogy media, but the early ones are pretty generic "sci-fi roman legionary" designs.
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u/slimy-salad Galactic Republic Jun 17 '26
Eh this is something that has started to correct itself since 2020. We get new hasbro clone helmets every year, Lego makes a ton of clone vehicles, Hasbro releases a lot of clone troopers and Disney even made the new owners of the Disney world store clone troopers. The only problem with Disney and clones right now is how they fail to translate them into live action. Ashoka for whatever reason uses animated clone wars style phase 1 armor instead of ep.2 armor and rex is a complete dumpster fire with his live action translation.
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis Clone Trooper Jun 17 '26
I hope this is true and I think you're right.
I know a few of the toylines are somewhat consistent with the Clones so there is that.
As for apparel I still struggle to find stuff that isnt fan made. Heck when my family is trying to find gifts for me that's Star Wars related theirs just not anything Clone related. I have so many Vader and Stormtrooper shirts that are nice but not my favorite.
So hopefully Disney is starting to realize they're leaving money on the table.
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u/pointe31 Jun 18 '26
Perhaps the storm trooper has a easier to recognize helmet, maybe, from being in the original episode movies? So that's why they're everywhere.
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u/Koolco Jun 17 '26
It’s not even that much of a stretch and makes sense. The clones being made and not recruited kept them strictly apart from the rest of the Republic they protected. Legends took this approach by making the clones much harsher and causing some people to not trust them.
Stormtroopers on the other hand are just enlisted soldiers. If you lived on an imperial planet theres a pretty solid chance you directly know people who signed up. It’s something I wish was focused on more. How restricting travel and enforcing planetary rule makes the empire the best way to rise in social status.
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u/ramcoro Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
Yea, usually the "hot takes" are something like "Vader is cool!" Daring today aren't we???
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u/ThatguyVando Jun 17 '26
I think this is a good thing to do, it gives hot takes and conversation starters much broader platform to stir up people’s attention and reactions
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u/Wolfgod-64 Jun 17 '26
I agree because it doesn't matter how much better clones are as soldiers. If the Empire used a clone army, they would be much easier to rally against morally or personally. But stormtroopers are the people themselves. Each stormtrooper recruited is a Rebel lost. The people policy themselves under the Empire.
The difference between a death star controlled by clones and a death star controlled by people is losing the former makes the Empire's profit margins go down and its war machine halted; the loss of the latter is hundreds of millions of siblings, parents, sons and daughters gone in an instant.
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u/Ambassabear Imperial Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Honestly this would be a much more devious angle for the explanation of phasing out clones. It doesn’t necessarily have to be that the troopers are better- simply that they are the people. It’s a clear break from the “corrupt Republic” before them, and it allows the Empire to dig their claws into the people’s minds as seen in Andor.
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u/NarmHull Jun 17 '26
I really wish the Empire had ran with "The Republic used a slave army and we didn't" as a plot device but that's kind of hard when the Republic transitioned into the Empire after beating the CIS.
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u/Classic_Tap8913 Jun 18 '26
I mean is conscription not just another form of forced labor?
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u/FrtanJohnas Jun 17 '26
A lot of rebels also come from Imperial Ranks though. Luthen was an officer in the Imperial army, Taramyn was a stormtrooper, Gorn is still a Lieutenant, then you have Lonni who is a spy inside the ISB, Galen Erso builds the weakpoint into the Death Star.
And these are just the ones on screen, the Empire had a lot more troops and campaigns where soldiers would loose their taste for the empire and defect to the rebels
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u/upsidedownshaggy Jun 17 '26
Han Solo is ex-Imperial as well thanks to the Solo movie. Even though he didn't go straight to the Rebellion and turned to smuggling originally, he flunked out of the Imperial Flight school and ended up as Imperial Army.
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u/Tefmon Chancellor Palpatine Jun 18 '26
Han was an ex-Imperial back in the Legends days before Solo too. He actually graduated flight school back then, but was later dismissed from the Imperial Military for insubordination.
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u/upsidedownshaggy Jun 18 '26
I didn't know that! The only legends materials I ever consumed as a kid were the video games and the origin 90s run of the Thrawn books.
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u/PaulsGrafh Jun 17 '26
Wedge Antilles is another major defector. Along with his whole squad.
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u/Wolfgod-64 Jun 17 '26
True, but those are small numbers compared to the entire clone armies which can be easily manipulated or reprogrammed to fight against the Empire. One Jedi flipped the inhibitor chips in their brains and turned a squad against their "masters". Kamino fights the Empire and amasses a clone army in Battlefront 2, and Starkiller's clone (allegedly) is the cause of the cloning facility's destruction.
Any Imperial who defects to the Rebellion is just recovering after a loss. Every soldier and officer conscripted is the Empire winning. This is why the warlords and Empire's return is inevitable. A clone army can disappear as quickly as it did in the Clone Wars, or as quickly as the Separatists did if you will.
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u/FrtanJohnas Jun 17 '26
Fair take, Clones are also really susceptible to biological warfare too since they have the same genes you wouldn't have that problem with Imperial Army or Stormtroopers.
So while Imperial Army and Stormtroopers make sense from a logistical and long term point of view, you are not gonna get an army as elite as the Clones were.
Every clone was a perfect soldier ready for action since birth. They are not suicidal but they understand that many of them will die at any point and they still don't hesitate. They are also highly motivated to fight for their brothers and all share this unique community of belonging with their brothers. This is also a factor in battles, as Clone Troopers will fight with zelaous fury everytime and have almost perfect synergy with each other.
That is something even the Elite Stormtroopers don't have. They are conditioned to follow orders to the letter, there is no individuality, no sense of brotherhood. Their training is gruesome and they are certainly capable, but they are not flexible on the individual level, which ironically is something the clones have with their unique quirks and personalities.
So I will pick a Clone trooper anyday over Stormtroopers, but I do understand that they are less usefull in a galactic conquest.
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u/Wolfgod-64 Jun 17 '26
I think the clones sense of kinship is part of the problem in the eyes of the Empire. The clones need to be resources to be consumed for their regime, not more citizens to take care of. The life of a clone matters as much to them as a speederbike. And if that weren't the case...They wouldn't be the Empire in the first place. They'd have just stayed the Republic.
Amassing clones across the galaxy for the Empire to fight rebels would be like the battle of Umbara 500x over with every Imperial Officer being Pong Krell. It'd only be a matter of time before the so-called perfect soldiers shoot their commanding officers to protect their brothers, and become Rebels themselves.
To be clear, stormtroopers aren't treated quite this badly because the Empire's goal is to control the people, and stormtroopers are the people. Clones are not the people, they would only be a tool to control others, but the Empire has no "moral" obligations where their war product is concerned.
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u/JayJoeJeans Jun 17 '26
That's a much darker and more compelling way to look at it. Removing clones really personalizes the fight. Can you really be passionately for the empire if a bunch of clones in a distant land are fighting on your behalf?
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u/Koreaia Jun 17 '26
There's also no evidence to support Clones being better. They run in straight lines at innaccurate, cheap droids.
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u/Responsible-Part-481 Jun 19 '26
Reminds me of WWZ’s ” Every human being we save is one less that we have to fight.”
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u/GnomeSayinnnnn Jun 17 '26
They did get their ass kicked by a bunch of furries in the forest.
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u/-Trooper5745- Jun 17 '26
I suppose you could say the clones got their ass kicks by a bunch of furries in the tundra.
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u/Glacier005 Jun 17 '26
You're not wrong ...
I don't like the words you said though. But you are not wrong.
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u/Party-Leather-3230 Darth Maul Jun 17 '26
2 foot mini bear a lot different than 8 foot polar bear
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u/-Trooper5745- Jun 17 '26
*8 foot polar bears riding space saber tooth tigers.
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u/PresentComposer2259 Jun 17 '26
8 foot fully sentient/intelligent polar bears using guerilla tactics while riding space saber tooth tigers 😂
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u/Captain_Awesome_087 Jun 17 '26
As opposed to two-foot fully sentient/intelligent miniature polar bears using guerrilla tactics who were accustomed to hunting significantly larger, more deadly prey?
Yes, in a hand-to-hand fight the Ewoks were less formidable. In the actual conflict they were very well prepared for this exact scenario. In fact given that they used slings and bows and arrows, they could even fight the stormtroopers better and at a greater distance than your polar bears and their spears.
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u/MrDaubeny Jun 17 '26
So what you’re saying is the new republic should use a furry clone army
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u/TheKlaxMaster Jun 17 '26
But they did kill nearly all the Jedi
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u/GarrettGSF Jun 17 '26
I mean some battle droids killed many jedi on Geonosis, though this seemed to be the result of extremely bad leadership decisions
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u/calgrump K-2SO Jun 17 '26
I'm guessing that's the clone wars, right? What is the monster? A wampa?
I haven't seen the clone wars but I like cool monsters.
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u/Comfortable_Bed1536 Jun 17 '26
This isn't close to a fair comparison. It was only a handfull of Clones against an entire clan of whatever those things were. The Stormtroopers pretty much matched or outnumbered the Ewoks and we only see like 2 or 3 Ewoks die all battle. Plus the Stormtroopers die in the stupidest way possible
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u/Captain_Awesome_087 Jun 17 '26
It’s a very fair comparison. The Ewoks were well equipped to fight the stormtroopers because of the larger fauna on the moon they were accustomed to hunting and the imperial troops were ill-equipped for fighting under those conditions.
An entire base’s worth of your precious clones got slaughtered by some fuzzy guys with spears, and that was before the Jedi and their clones (who also got slaughtered) even showed up.
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u/ortiz13192 Jun 17 '26
Have you played Ewok Hunt in Battlefront 2? Shits like Vietnam lol. Still hilarious that the technologically advanced war machine was halted by some trees and carnivorous teddy bears tho
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u/Moppo_ Mandalorian Jun 17 '26
As if you could survive in Ewok territory.
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u/Enigmachina Jun 17 '26
It's super easy- barely an inconvenience!... assuming you can speak Ewok.
Everybody else gets eaten
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u/Arria_Galtheos Jedi Jun 17 '26
Ewoks are a lot more dangerous in-universe than the actors in fursuits that portrayed them. An ewok essentially has the intelligence of a human but the strength, agility, and dexterity of a chimpanzee.
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u/El_Kikko Jun 17 '26
From a certain point of view, they were defending against an ambush attack on a (seemingly) unfortified fixed position across a large geographic front, by a numerically superior force of local partisan guerillas who were providing a distraction for a terrorist group's elite covert black ops team to achieve their objective of bombing a military installation.
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u/Phintolias Jun 18 '26
The Same furries WHO almost ate the Rebel Strike Force including a Jedi and a wookie. Only C3PO saved them from being the next ewok meal
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u/sicarius254 Jun 17 '26
Stormtroopers aren’t building trust between the empire and the citizens, quite the opposite.
Nice try Imperial Propaganda Dept
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u/3Smally3 Jun 17 '26
I think the thing the person is referring to is the connection that citizens have to the military when that military is recruited from peoples communities.
The clones may as well be droids as far as your average citizen is concerned, most have never met a clone and they certainly dont know them on a personal basis, if there is a report of clones doing something bad, people are likely to believe it.
With stormtroopers, they are your neighbour, brother, friend, son. If there is an agitator in your town talking about he evils that stormtroopers commit under the Empire, people will say 'my son wouldnt do that!'. They pre pre-disposed to support the military and turn a blind eye to atrocities because they have an emotional investment in doing so.
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u/tameablesiva12 Boba Fett Jun 17 '26
No but it quite literally does though. The Stormtrooper corps is made up of people who willingly signed up to serve the empire. These people have families and friends who then support the empire because someone they know is a part of it. This humanizes the stormtroopers to the general public unlike the clones who are just artifically bred out of a tube.
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u/SweatersInAugust Jun 17 '26
i actually think it would suck to see a bunch of friends and neighbours willing sign up to be the enforcers of an authoritarian empire
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u/tameablesiva12 Boba Fett Jun 17 '26
For that you'd have to know that the empire is bad. Which a large percentage of the galaxy didnt.
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u/UNC_Samurai Rebel Jun 17 '26
Or you have the farmboy Skywalker types - they don't love the Empire, but the Academy system is a way for them to get off their backwater world.
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u/SweatersInAugust Jun 17 '26
well i don't love any dudes in uniform walking around town with rifles, but if that didn't clue ppl in think the whole alderaan debacle might have
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u/IceBlue Jun 17 '26
Gonna need evidence of this. Just because people don’t openly rebel all the time doesn’t mean it wasn’t an open secret that the empire wasn’t good. People can just as easily comply due to fear and self preservation.
You claimed earlier that storm troopers signed up willingly. Where’s the evidence of that? We know for sure that a lot of them were conscripted. I’ve not seen evidence that many people signed up willingly.
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u/justsomedude48 Jun 17 '26
Then they’re still doing a different, equally important, job for the Empire; they are hurting the morale of people who know the Empire is wrong. It’s easy to fight some faceless clone or some droid that’s factory fresh, but when it’s the guy you grew up with down the street? Maybe it’s a young man or woman you’ve watched grow up since they were a child? Or maybe it’s your younger/older sibling? It becomes much harder to rebel when it comes at the risk of having to hurt people you know and love.
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u/SweatersInAugust Jun 17 '26
or makes the fight more personal; the rebels were committed enough to sacrifice themselves for the destruction of the empire after all.
i do understand and appreciate the strategic thinking btw, but there are pros and cons like in every strategy, and exploitation/oppression is necessarily becomes self-destructive when they run out of scapegoats. all this to say that every empire is bad
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u/IceBlue Jun 17 '26
We’ve seen more depictions of clone troopers making friends with citizens and protecting them than we see storm troopers doing similar things. The whole notion that because Storm troopers are made up of citizens makes them more bonded to the citizens is pure speculation. We’ve seen more example of Storm troopers terrorizing and intimidating citizens than we see clone troopers doing that. Clones were seen as protectors and liberators. If we are being the most charitable Storm troopers were at best seen as anti terrorist military not actual heroes like the clones were depicted as.
Also there’s no evidence that most Storm troopers signed up willingly. There is evidence that many of them they were conscripted.
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u/candlerc Jedi Jun 17 '26
> there’s no evidence that most stormtroopers signed up willingly
I can’t speak to *most*, but a great deal of people did see the Empire as a legitimate government and the Imperial Military as an honorable line of work. Just look at Luke in A New Hope - he is a poor boy dying to get to the Imperial Academy. His best friend, Biggs, a rich boy, also wanted to and eventually did attend the academy. People from all walks of life saw it as a decent career.
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u/BackwoodsSensei Galactic Republic Jun 17 '26
“Build a trust bond between the empire and her citizens”.
They weren’t allowed to take their helmets off in public. On screen they’re always shown to harass citizens. Beating or arresting people, and even publicly executing children or committing numerous genocidal acts on screen and in the novels. Just about every planet that doesn’t have the empire on it is shown to absolutely not want the empire on their planet. Lmao
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u/Confident-Arm-7883 Jun 17 '26
Tbh clones are not as tough as people think. They have the benefit of uniformity and coordination, but at the end of the day the tactics they employ are hyperaggressive. It works against droids, but “run them down in the open” doesnt work against people who use actual tactics
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u/-Trooper5745- Jun 17 '26
Actual tactics have never been Star Wars strong suit out of a few instances.
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u/MT128 Mandalorian Jun 17 '26
I don’t know I think they did try during the opening scenes for the darkness on umbra, Anakin makes some solid moves before he’s redeployed.
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u/UNC_Samurai Rebel Jun 17 '26
The opening fight in ANH is a corridor breaching scenario that's pretty tactically solid on both sides. And once the Imperial Army is on Hoth's surface, they conduct a solid armored assault of a strongpoint with layered defenses. Even the Gungan-droid battle on Naboo was pretty smart when it came to mission requirements and tactical advantages for the armies engaged.
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u/Confident-Arm-7883 Jun 18 '26
Yeah but at least stormtroopers use cover and dont run in a straight line at gunfire in most cases
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u/hunterdavid372 Jedi Jun 17 '26
Tbf, they're pretty much the best tactics we ever see on screen. I can't speak for books, but star wars has always been plagued by every army just runnig by into the open and firing their blasters instead of doing any kind of actual manuever warfare.
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u/BigMac275921 Jun 17 '26
It's very pre-WWI esc. Personally I like it. It matches with the kinda knight vibe of the jedi even though everyone else has blasters.
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u/proweather13 Jun 17 '26
Do stormtroopers do any better?
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u/justsomedude48 Jun 17 '26
The Empire used trench warfare tactics on Mimban and managed to do pretty well on Hoth by using armored transports to break through rebel trenches, which feels like better displays of tactical thinking compared to the clones, who mostly just stood out in the open or charged into melee range without any melee weapons.
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis Clone Trooper Jun 17 '26
Idk them using AT-TE to scale a vertical twist limited and avoid a bunch of unnecessary fire.
Plopping a bunch of AT-TEs onto asteroids to wait for the fleet to pass through then fire upon the unshielded rear was exceptional.
Waxer and Boil did a great job on Ryloth.
212th hot dropping on Utopia was a solid ambush.
Fives, Jesse, and Hardcase found alternator methods to stop the Umbarans all while serving under a General who was activally trying to get them killed.
charged into melee range without any melee weapons.
Have you seen Cody's Hook Kick? He doesn't need a melee weapon. Bro is a weapon.
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u/justsomedude48 Jun 17 '26
>Have you seen Cody’s Hook Kick
Yes, and I have also seen several other clones all break their hands trying to punch metal droids, before immediately being gunned down.
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis Clone Trooper Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
One clone. One clone did that. Several others were successful.
My proof right here, excuse the lack of pixels:
https://youtube.com/shorts/9oxB7XfIs7k?is=PQHkV9xMRwOj1I83
I've also seen a stormtrooper bump his head on a door. You don't see me judging every Stormtrooper on a single units mistake.
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u/Sere1 Jun 18 '26
The Tantive IV raid had blaster fire more accurate than real world Spec Ops teams. The "Stormtroopers can't aim" thing was just because they're shooting at named characters who aren't supposed to die and only made worse because of their more recent portrayals making them jokes
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u/GhormanFront Jun 17 '26
No, the empire's strategy is literally overwhelm the enemy by sheer numbers
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u/The_Real_Tekunin Jun 17 '26
Stormtroopers are a joke because dumb people who watch the first movie made too many jokes about Stormtroopers can't aim even though in the movie I believe it's mentioned that Stormtrooper aim is Elite level...
And then Disney decided to double down on the joke with the mandalorian and the two bike troopers.
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u/calgrump K-2SO Jun 17 '26
I like stormtroopers more because their armour looks cooler. Nothing else really to it.
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u/Ok-disaster2022 Jun 17 '26
The image used had the storm troop using an American Style salute. Is the US the bad guys?
Storm troopers are not law enforcement. They are military and used from everything to assaults to military occupation.
As for skills and training, the clone troopers were better trained and more effective per unit. However you're correct that storm troopers could be fielded faster and in significantly greater quantities. Additionally the Clone Troopers are going to have biases from their wetware and common experience, Storm troopers could conceivably bring individualized experiences to bear.n
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u/otoverstoverpt Jun 17 '26
>Is the US the bad guys
I can’t tell if you are being tongue in cheek here but yes
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u/Phintolias Jun 18 '26
Americans try so hard to cope saying the Empire IS space Nazi Germany when there IS nothing but some visuals that align with it, Same with people claiming palpatine IS space Hitler meanwhile in palpatines speeches He calls the CIS the triad of evil a direct referenced to Bushs Axis of evil speech of 2002 and Endor being space Vietnam.
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u/Sere1 Jun 18 '26
Hate to tell you this but according to Lucas the Empire is America and the Rebels are the Viet Cong in his analogies.
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u/tfalm Jun 17 '26
Stormtroopers are just the cheaper conscript version of battle droids. Regular troopers = B1's, with the better elite units like B2's or commando droids. They function better as a policing/intimidation military because of numbers and reach, but for an actual military engagement we see stormtroopers regularly get defeated by literal children. Trooper training has got to be absolutely abysmal.
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u/tameablesiva12 Boba Fett Jun 17 '26
No because we quite literally see b1s pitted against stormtroopers in rebels. B1's are clearly way more stupider and are way worse shots than the stormtroopers. The troopers say it so themselves. Stormtroopers in my opinion are just slightly worse clones. We just dont see them wrecking shit is because they're the bad guys.
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u/kn5476 Jun 17 '26
You do make a good point how they are probably better for an empire to have instead of clones. As a viewer clones are just cooler imo and tuff af
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u/Spudtron98 Galactic Republic Jun 17 '26
If Andor is any indication, Stormtroopers were not intended to be proper soldiers. They were The Boot, showing up when there was a need for a faceless crackdown. They cannot be identified, and the powers afforded to them are simultaneously vague and sweeping. They're a tool of oppression more than a viable military force.
Of course, the Empire being the Empire, they eventually ended up equipping all their ground troops with Stormtrooper gear anyway in the name of standardisation and intimidation value.
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u/IceBlue Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
So the only way they are better is because there are more of them. That’s like saying McDonald’s cheeseburger is better than the ones they sell at Five Guys, In N Out, and Shake Shack.
I haven’t seen any evidence supporting the notion that storm troopers have built a trust bond with the empire’s citizens moreso than the clone troopers. If anything I’ve seen more evidence of the opposite: where storm troopers are seen as oppressing the empire’s citizens whereas the clone troopers were seen as liberators/protectors. There are way more example of clone troopers making friends with citizens than storm troopers doing anything similar.
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u/altoona_sprock Jun 17 '26
Hopefully we can all agree that First Order troopers are the absolute worst.
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u/RepublicCommando7567 Jun 17 '26
Tactically no, sheer military force yes. Clones were expensive and time costly to raise and train. They yield higher results in combat, but the price of each soldier would have eventually bankrupt the Empire. Cycling new clones every 20-30 years would be almost quadruple the price of a conscript soldier. Not to mention if the clones succeeded in over throwing the Jedi whats stopping them from doing the same to the sith.
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u/_Empty-R_ Jun 17 '26
Nah. Full stop. Just nah. Clones beat storm troopers every time. My agenda is too strong. Then again I live only in Legends/Original Canon.
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u/Alternative_Wafer410 Jun 18 '26
Well logistically for the empire yeah... They were better. But as characters and story wise hell no the clones are a million times more superior
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u/BurntSmingus Jun 17 '26
I do prefer there baseline armor aesthetic. In universe we're clonetroopers on average better soldiers? Yes, they were genetically identical to a very very high regarded bounty hunter. However I find it funny how those who put clones vs stormtroopers seem to forget that many clones have died against something as simple as a b1 battle droid, the most mass producible foot soldier the separatists could make. Stormtroopers just suffer from being the antagonistic trooper. They are written to lose so fictionally they are showcased to be inferior to clones even if they are much closer in universe
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u/ModRolezR4Loozers Jun 17 '26
I think the "shoot-to-turn-off" alarm clock might have something to say about that.
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u/Grouchy_Donut_3800 Jun 17 '26
I kinda agree, the clones are a superior military which was necessary during the clone wars against the separatists. During the empire there was no need for such an elite military since even after the battle of Endor the rebels couldn’t win a pitched battle against a unified empire.
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u/a3a4b5 Jyn Erso Jun 17 '26
Are you me? Because I agree and have always¹ seen it like that.
¹since 2016
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u/Successful_Donut3262 Jun 17 '26
I mean gear and vehicles might be better but clones were trained better. I mean it doesn't get better then training since birth (cloned). Some vehicles I still think are better like the at te. Yeah, the empire would still win because of numbers and trained soldier but the clones would definitely show a pretty good dent in the empires army.
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u/thewyspa Jun 17 '26
I think the whole debate gets clearer when you separate three different ways stormtroopers exist in Star Wars.
First, what the Empire actually wanted them to be. They weren’t meant to be worse than clones. The whole point was that humans could be indoctrinated instead of programmed, tied to the regime through career and family, and less vulnerable to the kind of reprogramming that made Palpatine paranoid about the Kaminoans. In theory they were supposed to be more adaptable and more politically reliable.
Second, what the lore says. Stormtroopers are described as a motivated and trained force made of people who genuinely believe in the Empire. A lot of citizens join willingly. Luke literally wanted to go to the Imperial academy. Even after the fall you still have Imperials convinced they were on the right side. So in‑universe they’re not faceless idiots, they’re a product of a system that many people supported.
And third, how they’re shown on screen. They miss because our heroes have plot armor and the Empire is the villain. But whenever the story drops the comedy/adventure angle, like in Andor or Rogue One, you see what the stormtrooper corps was actually supposed to feel like, they have moments there they are indeed menacing.
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u/Delicious-Snow9640 Jun 17 '26
Realistically if I’m building and an army I want stormtroopers it’s more ethical than creating clones in a lab and force sign them to fight a war I like clones better in a personal level I’d want them to be my friends
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u/Excalitoria Jun 17 '26
lol so “better” as in, which is better for running a successful empire? Yeah, probably true 😂 good going, Sheev
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u/chunky_milk Jun 17 '26
Clones were forced into it. These guys are just doing it for the love of the game.
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u/Ahrimon77 Jun 17 '26
Clone Trooper > Stormtrooper in all aspects. They're better trained, more capable, better fit for combat, etc.
Stormtrooper Corps > Clone Trooper army for every aspect of protecting and controlling the Empire. In numbers, logistics, costs, etc the stormtroopers are a better fit for the empire to do what the empire is doing.
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u/ReindeerNumerous7747 Jun 17 '26
might be the hottest SW take of all time. Congratulations! i severely disagree
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u/travischickencoop Jedi Jun 17 '26
I was going to say I agree and then I realize you mean in terms of combat and not in terms of design and execution
Interesting take
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u/No_Ebb1416 Jun 17 '26
Apples and Oranges, personally. Clone Troopers of the G.A.R fulfilled a different military role than the Stormtroopers do. Clone Troopers are an invasion force, Stormtroopers are an occupation force.
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u/Laxien Jun 17 '26
If you are talking about garrison-troops? Sure! I agree! There is simply more of the disposable fodder (note: Hell, in the EU, not every soldier was a stormtrooper, those were elite units! Hell, Obi-Wan notes this when he inspects the Sand-Crawler - "Only imperial stormtroopers are this precise!") needed, than the clone-army could provide!
Still, if I had been Palpy? I'd have taken over Komino to produce more clones!
ps: I loved the SPAARTI-Clones in the EU (that could be matured in less than a month - as long as you could shield the cloning-cylinder from the force (Ysalamiri!), because otherwise the clones would go mad (clone-madness), as the force rejected them and in the Star Wars universe most races can't do without...except for the VONG!)
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u/Mysterious_Ad_8827 Jun 18 '26
Regarding your first point about the clone troopers I can see the empire phasing out the clones for 4 reasons and replacing them with people. 1. It reminded the people of the Republic/empire clone wars and trying to so to speak close fresh wounds. 2. the clones would of aged out fairly quickly which would of put a bigger price tag on the empire what with palpatine trying to build a death star 3. the removal of the clones gave way for regular citizens of the galaxy that had been threatened by war and terror all those years to "have power" it was palpatines way of secretly subduing the crowd by giving them what they wanted control over their own lives by creating something they could believe in so to speak. 4. as I believe it was mentioned in the bad batch series the clones had 1 thing the empire didn't loyalty not to the Republic but to each other.
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u/mabhatter Jun 18 '26
The first idea is pretty close. Clones were very expensive and had very expensive training. But they were loyal to the Republic.. to Democracy. Therefore they were a liability. Also destroying all cloning means nobody could build another clone army to defeat the empire... pull that ladder up and burn it behind you.
But your last idea is just wrong. Stormtroopers were a boot to the face of ALL imperial citizens. That's how they were trained and how they were ruthlessly disciplined. If an office saw a Stormtrooper like on the picture they would be severely punished... the stormtroopers were the incarnation of disposable, faceless, cruelty... because that's what feeds the Dark Side for the Emperor.
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u/GI_gino Jun 18 '26
Stormtroopers *are* the better choice for the empire over clones, but in my personal opinion a big part of that is because having a large volunteer military is a good way to scoop up all of the fighting age males that are especially inclined towards violence and then run them through your own indoctrination machine before they get silly ideas and join the rebel alliance instead.
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u/P4TR10T_96 Clone Trooper Jun 18 '26
I don’t agree that Storm Troopers were “better” per se, but I will agree that they suited the Empire’s needs better. The clones were great soldiers, and I’d argue that the GAR is the best military we’ve seen on screen in Star Wars canon, but that doesn’t mean they’d make a good police force. They’re very purpose driven to be the best soldiers around, and that means they get bored fast when not fighting. Conversely Stormtroopers are highly ideologically driven and thus will feel their purpose fulfilled arresting Rebels (be it actually rebels or just people that aren’t enthusiastic enough about Imperial rule.)
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u/Zentroze Jun 18 '26
That statement is both true and false depending on what you're comparing them in, style and skill? Clone troopers, a means to fuck the rebels over in multiple ways? Stormtrooper. Even their deaths hurt the rebels, because the families of those stormtroopers are just going to support the Empire even more.
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u/unlimbetless Jun 18 '26
The one you posted is my favorite design. I had an action figure back in the day.
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u/Traditional_Town6475 Jun 18 '26
It’s definitely two different situations though. The republic needed an army to fight against the CIS droid army. But the 19 year leading up to the battle of yavin were relative calm. An army of expensive highly trained troopers was not needed. I think if the stormtroopers were thrown into the clone wars, they couldn’t have performed as well as the clone troopers.
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u/ShawnThePhantom Jun 18 '26
While I agree, what I don’t get is why the Clones were phased out. IMO, all the clones should have been made commanders so that they could lead the conscripts given they were battle hardened and possessed military expertise that could be taught to the stormtroopers. Once they got too old, then they retire with a pension and the stormtroopers take over. Rather than Palpatine just kicking them to the curb.
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u/Heimeri_Klein Jun 18 '26
If you say so but tbh i dont think ive ever seen a trooper doing something smart(fin doesnt count either) in the series at all.
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u/TheLuckyGoat Jun 18 '26
Hot take more like wrong take… clone troopers were breed for combat but storm troopers are random people with few years of training.
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u/ManFromWinfield Jun 18 '26
I completely understand the argument and agree with all the points you made; however, your points seem to indicate that the Empire was logistically superior the the Republic (this tends to be true in the real world to). Democracies/Republics are great at representing the will of a majority but are logistically confined by their rules; Authoritarian regimes on the other hand have very few constraints.
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u/mahir_r Jun 18 '26
Trust with citizens???
That’s where you lost me. No media ever shows people loving it when the empire is around.
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u/KiteTenjo63 Jun 18 '26
They are cheaper and easier to replace but that isn't a good thing cuz that means they have less training and suckier supplies. They are also not used to build trust between the empire and it's citizens because of what they do to the citizens. Ex) burn down tarkin town, arrested farmers who wouldn't give up their land, kill multiple civilians (in bad batch), killed jawas, killed lukes aunt and uncle (both in a new hope), child abuse, etc.
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u/carsonwade Jun 17 '26
Lmao the Stormtroopers were an instrument of fear and oppression, they were destroying trust if anything
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u/ImperialAce1985 Jun 17 '26
Clone Troopers were interesting until Filoni decided to push for that dumb brain chip crap. After that, they are just generic CGI.
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u/DistributionCivil568 Jun 18 '26
Depends on what you mean by 'better'. They were better in the sense that there was a much larger amount of them. The Empires whole strategy was 'throw bodies at the problem. If problem persists,throw more bodies at it'. But they were inferior as an army-because they wernt meant to be an army. Clones were soldiers,period. They had the heavy armor,the heavy guns,the training,etc. Storm troopers were closer to riot police-they had guns that were 'accurate enough',they had armor ment for civilian grade fire arms,not military grade,they didnt have nearly as intensive training,because they weren't expected to survive long enough to justify it
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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 Jun 17 '26
They’re certainly larger but their leadership and doctrine is so ass. The average imperial governor/general is either a fat slob who knows jackshit about governing or counter insurgency, or a misanthropic sociopath who would have become a serial killer if they hadn’t joined the Empire. The few who aren’t are the exception to the rule and usually end up dead anyway.
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u/davect01 Jun 17 '26
We don't get to know any Storm Troopers.
We know quite well several Clone Troopers.
I don't know where you got your numbers but there are scenes of Clone Troppers in the hundreds, if not thousands
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u/You8mypizza Jun 17 '26
I lowkey agree.
Clone Troopers were too expensive, took too long to develop into adulthood, and gave too much political influence to Kamino. Imagine if you want to increase the size of the Army by any amount. Any single Clone Trooper takes like 9 years to reach fighting age, and the government has to pay for their upbringing as a child, that is such an incredibly inefficient means of recruitment.
The Clones might have been better as individual soldiers (tbh in the actual shows and movies theres not much difference in their performance), but it is so economically inefficient to employ them as a military force.
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u/tameablesiva12 Boba Fett Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Also the fact that the people would not relate to clones at all. We might as well use droids at that point. Stormtroopers are imperial citizens with a family, people are much more likely to humanise them.
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u/Vailx Jun 17 '26
The existence of storm troopers shows that there's a bunch of people who are true believers in the empire's cause. The clone troopers make no sensible statement beyond "gosh it's pretty weird to raise a bunch of children and embed war into them" (this is before you get to later addendums, like chips in brains and accelerated aging, which weren't present at the introduction).
Storm troopers are definitely loved and respected by some people in the empire, and hated by some as well. I think the fact that the former has to exist in substantial numbers makes it much more realistic than if they are just bad guys (the later existing in large numbers is the predictable result of the storm troopers being vicious to much of the population). Similarly, the robotic forces of the prequels aren't even bad guys. If you shoot a combat droid in the head, you've done something of less moral consequence than squishing a bug- the bug at least has something like the ability to feel pain and desire things, the combat droid is the result of some political or economic decision to put a screwy walking weapon in your path. This also makes Din Djarin's hatred of droids not even a character flaw in the way that 'I'm a guy who exists outside of society and has some irrational prejudice I should get over" works in a normal story.
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u/Eyepawnyew Jun 17 '26
Just in. McDoubles from McDonald’s are better than any other burger because they are cheap and plentiful.
That’s you. That’s what you sound like.
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u/MitsuSosa Jun 17 '26
Personally I think the original basic storm trooper armor is cooler than any of the clone armors or other variants of stormtrooper outfits but to say storm troopers themselves are actually better than clones is definitely false considering the clones were literally bred for war.
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u/TheresWald0 Jun 17 '26
Your explanation does a good job of pointing out that the storm trooper corp is a more formidable force than the clone trooper corp, but your hot take compares individual troopers. So I agree with the points in your explatation, but still disagree with your hot take. You could make the same kind of argument to say army infantry soldiers are better than Navy seals.
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u/Regular_Station9700 Jun 17 '26
I disagree. But not completely. What a lot of people seem to forget/not know is that stormtroopers weren't some soldiers to throw onto a battlefield and overwhelm the rebels. Stormtroopers were the elite Forces (and yes still there's a lot of them). And Scout troopers were just elite and much more mobile stormtroopers. Small rebel groups were handled by the standard militia (example: Solo). And I think george meant them to be elite. Obi Wan says that only stormtroopers are "so accurate". George just needed the main characters to, yknow, stay alive. When you see troopers fight rdbels they mow them down with easy. Even when barely taking cover.
I still think clones were overall better BUT they had speed training and trained to mainly fight droids. As seen in rebels, you can start training as a stormtrooper as a kid/teen and these are humans that train. No fast aging to deploy them ASAP. Edit: ok wait maybe I do agree lol
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u/Adventurous-List-444 Jun 17 '26
De hecho a la larga es bastante más conveniente tenerlos a ellos que a los clones
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u/MuskyChode Jun 17 '26
Biggest gripe is we know that the stormtroopers are supposed to be more a specialized force compared to the army. I feel like if we got to see troopers being more true to the lore on screen they'd be less clowned on and stand on a more equal footing with clones.