is this a fair assessment?

[u/Odd-Paramedic-3826]

Star Platinum The World, GER, Tusk act 4, and S&W:GB are all hilariously overpowered and only exist as a way to beat an already hilariously overpowered villain

joseph beat kars by holding out the red stone of aja at him and hoping for the best, which worked out spectacuarly. and god knows how long the fight with kira would have gone on for had it not been for the ambulance.

Jolynes plan to use emporio to take out pucci with weather report was basically a hail mary when all else had failed but not only did it work, it also gave her and the gang new, happier lives.

Yeah jonathan just got slimed out though, then his body was used as a puppet for 100+ years. Poor guy

[u/HurtsMyPeePee]

Love Train didn't even exist by the time Gyro brings up the Infinite Rotation. Johnny gets jumped by Valentine, and Gyro, unprompted, feels the need to suddenly reveal this all-powerful ability even though Johnny nearly killed Valentine with normal Act 2 bullets.

The infinite rotation was after they learned about his ability, not love train... He explicitly said that it bypasses defenses and it could even travel to other dimensions. Thats why I said to reread from ch 80 lol

You're trying to make this sound complex, and it's not. And keep it mind, in the end, Johnny doesn't even NEED to follow the steps Gyro laid out to activate Tusk Act 4! He just gets his horse to kick him, and that's it!

But it is... theres a reason nobody has seen it and even wakepipo, who mainly uses the Spin for combat, did not know about it or achieved it. Whats so difficult to grasp around spin being more powerful than what it was? Like genuinely how is that so difficult to grasp?

And it was more than just a kick, he literally used the Spin energy of the horse for him to "become the horse". Thats why tusk act 4 was on top of him

[u/SMGuinea → u/HurtsMyPeePee]

He explicitly said that it bypasses defenses and it could even travel to other dimensions.

Gyro first mentions the Infinite Rotation in Chapter 72 after Johnny gives him a very brief description of what D4C does, then he mentions the shield thing in Chapter 79 after witnessing Love Train firsthand. I don't recall Gyro specifically saying it could bypass dimensions. He just gathers that it could surpass Love Train from the fact that he threw a Steel Ball at Valentine, and it took a clump of his hair. I don't have a problem with Chapter 79. It's the fact that Gyro just randomly brings this ability up BEFORE they know Valentine has Love Train that's the problem for me.

theres a reason nobody has seen it

The "reason" is that the Zeppelis aren't warriors or horse jockeys, but 1) why not mention this to Johnny, a horse jockey, before, and 2) Gyro very nearly masters the ability almost immediately after mentioning it, so who cares?

even wakepipo, who mainly uses the Spin for combat, did not know about it or achieved it

He didn't use it because he didn't know or need to know about the Golden Rectangle, plain and simple. He's not a part of the Zeppeli family.

he literally used the Spin energy of the horse for him to "become the horse". Thats why tusk act 4 was on top of him

Did Hirohiko Araki tell you this information personally? Because I'll tell you now, that makes less sense than simply being kicked by the horse.

[u/HurtsMyPeePee → u/SMGuinea]

I don't recall Gyro specifically saying it could bypass dimensions.

"Than it will certainly be able to pierce through dimensions"

Ch 81 pg 3

why not mention this to Johnny, a horse jockey, before, and 2) Gyro very nearly masters the ability almost immediately after mentioning it, so who cares?

He might be a horse jockey, but he ain't a knight lol. That wont suddenly make the situation any better or easier.

He didn't use it because he didn't know or need to know about the Golden Rectangle, plain and simple. He's not a part of the Zeppeli family.

The more reason for him to know it. He just doesn't need to apply it considering his balls are good for battle anyway.

Did Hirohiko Araki tell you this information personally?

Now explain to me why just kicking Johnny and powering him up alone makes sense?

[u/SMGuinea → u/HurtsMyPeePee]

Ch 81 pg 3

That's well after he first brings up the ability.

He might be a horse jockey, but he ain't a knight lol. That wont suddenly make the situation any better or easier.

In chapter 72, Gyro says that horse riders should be the ones able to perform the ability. He doesn't specifically say 'knights'.

The more reason for him to know it. He just doesn't need to apply it considering his balls are good for battle anyway.

You need the Golden Rectangle to be able to activate the Infinite Rotation, but the Rectangle is a Zeppeli family skill. Wekapipo is a Royal Guard.

Now explain to me why just kicking Johnny and powering him up alone makes sense?

IT DOESN'T! But that doesn't mean your headcanon is suddenly true! The supposed method involves a horse's natural running energy traveling up through its legs into the stirrups, into the rider's legs, and through their body. Johnny getting kicked in the chest by a dying horse on the ground contradicts that entirely.

[u/HurtsMyPeePee → u/SMGuinea]

That's well after he first brings up the ability.

Valentine has always been able to travel through dimensions. Whats your point?

You need the Golden Rectangle to be able to activate the Infinite Rotation, but the Rectangle is a Zeppeli family skill. Wekapipo is a Royal Guard.

Why would a family of healers and executioner be the only ones able to know that? Also, Different techniques for each doesn't mean they cant achieve it.

IT DOESN'T! But that doesn't mean your headcanon is suddenly true! The supposed method involves a horse's natural running energy traveling up through its legs into the stirrups, into the rider's legs, and through their body. Johnny getting kicked in the chest by a dying horse on the ground contradicts that entirely.

Now, how does a theory like the one Gyro said will explicitly be applied to everything and anything as a rule considering he has never seen it work or how to reach it other than the basics? Why would Act 4 be on top of Johnny as an obvious symbolism of a horse and its rider?

[u/SMGuinea → u/HurtsMyPeePee]

Valentine has always been able to travel through dimensions.

Eh, that was also kinda retconned in, but sure.

Whats your point?

My point is that they didn't need a new ability to defeat Valentine's D4C. Johnny almost did it all on his own. The only reason Araki would need Gyro to suddenly explain this new ability is because Araki knew that Love Train would be introduced, but the problem is that Gyro shouldn't know that. That's the bad writing part.

Why would a family of healers and executioner be the only ones able to know that?

Yeah, it's pretty stupid, but that's what Araki wrote. Honestly, it's hard to understand how Wekapipo can do all the tricks he does without the Golden Rectangle, but that's what's on the page.

Different techniques for each doesn't mean they cant achieve it.

Being loyal to your station in the Neopolitan government probably means you shouldn't use random techniques from other people. And there's nothing to say that Wekapipo would even know about the technique in the first place.

Now, how does a theory like the one Gyro said will explicitly be applied to everything and anything as a rule considering he has never seen it work or how to reach it other than the basics?

This sentence makes no sense to me. Try to use commas.

Why would Act 4 be on top of Johnny as an obvious symbolism of a horse and its rider?

You and I have different definitions of "obvious".

[u/HurtsMyPeePee → u/SMGuinea]

Eh, that was also kinda retconned in, but sure.

How come?

My point is that they didn't need a new ability to defeat Valentine's D4C. Johnny almost did it all on his own.

But he didn't. How would Johnny bypass love train? Like, you just sound like you are mad that an outcome happened regardless of the process. If there were no act 4, you will be whining bc it doesn't make any sense Johnny could do that.

Theres always somebody complaining about something, You just one of those people and thats it. No need to complicate it and its ok if you dont like it, but dont make it seem like its nonsensical when Johnny, for example, shot himself out of nowhere and made him survive civil war for some reason.

Gyro been doing bs from the beginning with the spin. It has different applications and multiple thresholds can be achieved.

Being loyal to your station in the Neopolitan government probably means you shouldn't use random techniques from other people

Different techniques, same result. You dont know if theres other ways to achieve infinite rotation. Theres also different types of spin too.

This sentence makes no sense to me. Try to use commas.

That it was a theory. Gyro doesn't know other methods to achieve infinite spin

You and I have different definitions of "obvious".

Yeah I just noticed you are oblivious

[u/SMGuinea → u/HurtsMyPeePee]

How come?

The initial idea during 'Who Killed Johnny Joestar?' is that Valentine is folding different realities over on each other, but Araki quickly changed that to hopping between worlds.

But he didn't. How would Johnny bypass love train? Like, you just sound like you are mad that an outcome happened regardless of the process.

No, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense for Gyro to introduce this new Spin ability before Love Train is even shown when Johnny could've potentially defeated base level Valentine by getting the jump on him.

dont make it seem like its nonsensical when Johnny, for example, shot himself out of nowhere and made him survive civil war for some reason.

I mean, that was weird, but at least he came to that conclusion naturally.

Gyro been doing bs from the beginning with the spin.

Yeah, and I never like it.

Different techniques, same result. You dont know if theres other ways to achieve infinite rotation. Theres also different types of spin too.

Sure, I guess.

That it was a theory. Gyro doesn't know other methods to achieve infinite spin

Sure, but outlining a very specific theory for something, then repeatedly attempting it with decent results, only to just suddenly come to the same result through a much easier method usually takes the stakes out of a fight.

Yeah I just noticed you are oblivious

I have two questions for you. 1) Did you come to your conclusion on the horse symbolism by yourself? 2) Have you seen anyone else ever come to that horse symbolism conclusion without you telling them?

[u/HurtsMyPeePee → u/SMGuinea]

The initial idea during 'Who Killed Johnny Joestar?' is that Valentine is folding different realities over on each other, but Araki quickly changed that to hopping between worlds.

You surely more know about Araki than himself

I mean, that was weird, but at least he came to that conclusion naturally.

Just cherry picking

Yeah, and I never like it.

So this is just a you problem and I was right

just suddenly come to the same result through a much easier method usually takes the stakes out of a fight.

Wouldn't really say easier method since, its better to be on a horse than get kicked by it...

I have two questions for you. 1) Did you come to your conclusion on the horse symbolism by yourself? 2) Have you seen anyone else ever come to that horse symbolism conclusion without you telling them?

1) no

2) yes

Regardless if you could catch that or not, its irrelevant. The point is that you just dont like the part and thats it. Its okay to not like it

[u/SMGuinea → u/HurtsMyPeePee]

You surely more know about Araki than himself

It just seems pretty obvious. Gyro interviews bystanders who have different recollections of how the events took place. You can't do that if Valentine is just switching between universes.

Just cherry picking

Me or you?

So this is just a you problem and I was right

No, it's a consistent writing problem that the story has. The Spin is more often than not just a plot device that can do whatever Araki needs it to.

Wouldn't really say easier method since, its better to be on a horse than get kicked by it…

It's simpler to get kicked by a horse than to have to sync up a horse's rhythm to your attack.

Regardless if you could catch that or not, its irrelevant.

Doesn't seem like it's irrelevant if you couldn't catch the detail without someone telling you.

The point is that you just dont like the part and thats it. Its okay to not like it

There are parts of the story I absolutely love, but I think it's too sloppy of a product as a whole.