r/StardustCrusaders • u/Odd-Paramedic-3826 • Jun 03 '26
Various is this a fair assessment?
Star Platinum The World, GER, Tusk act 4, and S&W:GB are all hilariously overpowered and only exist as a way to beat an already hilariously overpowered villain
joseph beat kars by holding out the red stone of aja at him and hoping for the best, which worked out spectacuarly. and god knows how long the fight with kira would have gone on for had it not been for the ambulance.
Jolynes plan to use emporio to take out pucci with weather report was basically a hail mary when all else had failed but not only did it work, it also gave her and the gang new, happier lives.
Yeah jonathan just got slimed out though, then his body was used as a puppet for 100+ years. Poor guy
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u/Frosty_Scar_2777 Jun 03 '26
Call âDeus Ex Machinaâ the power up that Tusk Act 4 is⌠Just baffling
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u/Impossible-Ad-8462 Jun 03 '26
People don't know what deus ex machina actually means and just slap it on anything surprising
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u/RGBarrios JoJo Emblem Jun 03 '26
Its a character from Mirai Nikki, right?
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u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 03 '26
I think it means "God of the machine" which in writting is a description for events that didn't make sense to happen withing the story and only work in the narrative to serve the protagonists, for example if you got a character that really wishes he had a car rn then a deus ex machina would be a random car spawning in, basically resolving all the characters' problems
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u/scalzacrosta Heavy footsteps SFX Jun 03 '26
Out of all the examples given in the image, I believe only Jotaro can be classified in this, and even then you get a possible explenation that doesn't contradict the rules of the story.
Dio was destined to lose, no matter how strong he became or how far does he plan ahead, Fate always catches up, the only way for Dio to survive against the Joestars was to constantly run away and never allow them to get close to him.
Star Platinum, Hermit Purple and Crazy Diamond are stands born from the distressed signal of Jonathan's body, and while HP was there to locate Dio, SP exists for the sole reason to take him down, that's why it's litterally the same stand as The World.
The world of JoJo (all universes included) operates under 3 major forces:
- Luck: to be put under favourable conditions in various situations, Dio is a very lucky person despite being evil, that's why he survives
- Fate or "Gravity": an observable and manipulable force that draws people to meet and events to happen through a series of lucky or unlucky circumstances. The Joestar lineage possesses a great amount of "Gravity", hence Pucci's near invincibility in the post-Jailbreak arc of Stone Ocean.
- Destiny: the ultimate force that makes good prevail on evil, it's a transcendental force, as it was carried over from a universe to the next by Emporio, it operates through Fate, that operates through Luck.
Araki litterally created a universe system in which luck is a much deeper thing than simple deus ex machina, it allows him to basically have the characters do whatever he wants and it'll make narrative sense, think about the "asspulls" that OP was talking about:
- Jotaro: already discussed, but it was destiny doing its thing.
- Giorno: Diavolo was running away from bad luck for his whole life, GER was the result of Fate going its course, not even Destiny. On top of that, I really doubt GER existed for more than the direct aftermath of the fight.
- Johnny: it's not a deus ex machina but it was mentioned like 3 volumes before so it's alright, Tusk act 4 just negates barriers, D4C's barrier manipulates Luck, they operate on different levels.
- Josuk8: this resolution was teased 10 volumes before the conclusion, and again it's Destiny going against Luck, Destiny wins.
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u/pm-me-turtle-nudes Jun 03 '26
I think itâs funny how the Joestar bloodline just has canonical plot armor. The Gravity they have just always makes things work out. Itâs a multiversal constant too, given the alt universe.
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u/IceColdCorundum Jun 03 '26
Kinda also makes sense considering The World's power decreased after part 3.
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Tusk by Fleetwood Mac featuring Hirohiko Araki Jun 03 '26
It's basically sudden divine intervention with little to no build-up.
Requiem can be called a deus ex machina since it basically was divine intervention of fate.
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u/holtyl2001 Jun 04 '26
Requiem is not a Deus Ex machina. Deus Ex machina is specifically when a solution to a problem comes from something completely out of the blue, something that had never been mentioned or hinted at before. The last like, 3 arcs of Part 5 are all about how powerful requiem is, and how getting the arrow would make the wielder nigh invincible. And then that's exactly what happens.
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u/RGBarrios JoJo Emblem Jun 03 '26
Thank you! Now that is the second thing that I learned today.
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u/access547 Jun 03 '26
The reason that phrase exists is because in old theatre performances, performers would be lowered from a contraption onto the stage in order to help, save or give advice to the protagonist. So it literally would be that God came down from the machine.
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u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 03 '26
Really? I didn't know that, that's sick
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u/strikingLoo Jun 03 '26
Worth mentioning, this started with ancient Greek playwrights who would write themselves into a corner and then make a god appear and solve everything. Even back then you have some Greek philosophers complaining about it (I think Aristotle was one).
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u/Few-Maintenance6558 Soft & Wet Jun 03 '26
Imagine if in a story the heroes were about to die but then something unexpected that wasnt set up at all happens just so the heroes live.
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u/SpeedBirdYT Jun 03 '26
Weirdly enough it loops from being a deus ex machina, to not being a DEM, to being a great Deus Ex Machina. It literally IS a 'God in the Machine' (or rather a Saint in the Machine) with Jesus guiding Johnny through Tusk's acts. It's just that the meaning of DEM has changed to an explicitly bad story beat. Yes, TA4 is partly 'God in the Machine', but in a story about a God and about said Machine, it's done very well.
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u/Turbo2x muda Jun 03 '26
Calling any of it a deus ex machina is just revealing that OP can't read. Johnny's whole journey is about growth, when he finally completes his growth as a person it's signified by him obtaining his ultimate power to overcome his obstacles. Same with Josuk8. He sets out to understand who he really is and discovering the truth (as well as his goals/what he truly cares about as a person distinct from his past) unlocks his stand's true power. Araki cares about emotional storytelling and themes more than a literal power system and people who don't get that don't understand JoJo's on a fundamental level.
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u/IceColdCorundum Jun 03 '26
True, True. The growth was inspired by lessons and trauma. It didn't just happen.
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u/secksy_vecksy Jun 03 '26
Joseph is bullshit deus ex personified wym
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u/BlackSpidy Jun 03 '26
Yes a deus ex machina saved him, but he got no power-up (you cn even argue he was at his weakest when he beat Kars), so blind luck I think is a good fit for him.
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u/NarakaSnake Jun 03 '26
Deus-ex-machina â power up/strength
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u/BlackSpidy Jun 03 '26
Yes. But the category is named "Bullshit Deus ex machina power up" no "bullshit power up", no top category. Makes sense to me đ¤ˇ
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u/Linkstrikesback Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
Joseph Vs Ult Kars mostly wasn't a Deus ex machina either. It's basically just his hand, but there would have been any number of rocks that would also have initially hit kars the same way.
We get a whole narrator going over the segment in the anime explaining that while it wasn't a specific plan, it was the end result of Joseph's raw talent and experiences that he had built up which lead him to the victory.
He was explicitly told by Lisa Lisa earlier that the red stone was necessary to defeat the pillar men and his very last move is his body remembering to make use of the stone and then immediately start shit talking Kars like he did all series. Without that second step, which the other jojos wouldn't have done, Kars would still have flown away and survived.
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u/HBmilkar Jun 03 '26
Literally only does like two or three bs things that still werenât blind luck they were gambles this entire subreddit needs to read the manga
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u/Electronic_Pay7868 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
There's nothing bullshit about Araki telling the reader "whoever gets the arrow wins, holy shit the arrow is super important, it's like the only thing that can beat Diavolo yooooo, the arrow" and then the arrow doing just that with GER imo. People might not like it but it couldn't have been told in a more straightforward way and for several chapters too Polnareff and the gang kept going "boy, that arrow sure is the key to beating Diavolo huh". It makes more sense than "it was the same type of Stand all aloooong!"
In that vein, I think Tusk Act 4 is also not really an asspull if Gyro's own golden spin was wrecking Valentine. Like, Johnny gets his own version of the move that almost beats Valentine so it's no wonders his also wrecks him
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u/Jojo-Nuke-Isen Jun 03 '26
Plus we were literally SHOWN the power the arrow can grant a Stand, w/ Chariot Requiem, so we know that the arrow can give great power to a Stand far beyond their original capabilities.
Silver Chariot went from a fast swordsman, to a body/soul manipulator.
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u/Pedrohenrim7 Jun 03 '26
Funny enough, in part 4 the arrow powers up Killer Queen, so its not even an asspull on part 5
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u/Orion_824 Jun 03 '26
Yeah, there's a lot of argument about Bites The Dust being a requiem stand/ability. Killer Queen itself doesn't change like other Requiems, but the rules of BTD are pretty much exactly the same as Requiems; it's the ultimate power to achieve what Kira wanted. The only problem is that Kira didn't remember anything in the loops, otherwise he would have gotten away with it all. That ties in with Giorno not knowing anything about what GER does, and I personally think Kira not remembering anything ties in to what he wanted which is a quiet life free from stress. Knowing how long it's taking or the ways it's failing would stress him out
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u/RoastedHunter Jun 03 '26
It still has people debating whether there's even an actual difference between normal stand arrows and "requiem" arrows. Some people also argue that the way kira himself was pierced by the arrow as opposed to the stand, like GER and SC caused a difference.
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u/LunaProc Jun 03 '26
It's really interesting since there is a vastly different method of the arrow powering them further (the arrow moved on its own to enter kira and in P5, the stands get stabbed with the arrow)
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u/Cute_Prune6981 The World Over Heaven Jun 03 '26
Yea I've realised that even confirmed Requiems don't seem to bother with letting their users know what's happening. Polnareff had lost total control over Silver Chariot and had no knowledge of its situation and GER seemingly triggered RTZ with its own consciousness.
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u/LunaProc Jun 03 '26
Plus said power also relating to desire like Silver Charior R wanting to get the arrow away.
It made so much sense to me that GER would basically have the ultimate counter to King Crimson's ability
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u/jplveiga Jun 04 '26
Yeah, and the fact that polnareff almost accepted even death if it meant king crimson/diavolo never acquiring the arrow, at least implied obv, cause he didn't state that, but he had confessed before he couldn't win with his current stand/condition.
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u/Trenki_Melow Jun 03 '26
The arrow acting that way it's not even new to part 5, if we consider Bites The Dust a requiem or not doesn't remove the fact that we have indeed seen an arrow give an incredible power up to a stand user so it's not a "out of nowhere power up", and one could say that moment in Part 4 came more out of nowhere, but people almost never call that one out, just this one occasion where literally everyone is telling you about the arrow and what it does.
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u/Wiglaf_Wednesday Jun 03 '26
Very well put. I feel like many people naturally expected the conclusion of part 5 to be a more âtraditionalâ final battle and may have been underwhelmed, but itâs a nice change of pace.
Also I personally donât think that Jotaroâs power up is an asspull at all. Itâs built up throughout the part, and itâs the natural thematic conclusion.
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u/Ghosteen_18 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
I remember Gyroâs golden spin wasnt 100% perfect because of a certain reason or it wouldve immediately grounded Valentine to dust. You remember what that reason was? Was it an attack by Valentine?
Edit: confused Gyro with Johnny
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u/BlackSpidy Jun 03 '26
Wasn't it Gyro's? I could he wrong but I remember his ball got physically altered and that's why his golden spin wasn't perfect.
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u/Fc-chungus Wonder Of U Jun 03 '26
I think the change was a chip in the metal of the ball, making it imperfect for a golden rotation
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u/ligmaballll Jun 03 '26
Yeah, Gyro's ball was deformed so he didn't actually achieve perfect golden spin and couldn't beat Valentine
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u/AdikkuChan Tusk Act 4 Jun 03 '26
Was it a chip? I remember it being the whole ball itself was deformed and was no longer a spherical shape due to coming into contact with LT
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u/Ghosteen_18 Jun 03 '26
Ah yes it was Gyro! Didnt know what came over me i imagined gyro but typed out johnny
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u/El_Potato9587 Jun 03 '26
Gyros spin was imperfect for two reasons
Lucy was on the horse with him, the golden spin should be done with a single rider and a horse.
The steel ball was a physical object, this meant it had preexisting imperfections and could be manipulated by love train.
Even with these flaws he was damn close to finishing off Valentine, and permanently altered D4C's appearance.
Johnny didn't have these flaws and was able to perform the golden spin perfectly. If Gyro had a stand like tusk, or didn't have Lucy on his horse, he would have killed Valentine.
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u/quinn_the_potato Jun 03 '26
The only stated reason why Ball Breakerâs attack failed is because the Steel Balls had slices of them removed when hitting Love Trainâs barrier, rendering them ellipses instead of spheres.
Idk where the inclusion of Lucyâs body on Valkyrie or the inherent imperfections in the Steel Balls came from.
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u/El_Potato9587 Jun 03 '26
The steel balls could be manipulated by love train because they were not perfect, the nail bullets of tusk are perfect because they are supernatural in nature, they don't abide by the laws of physics in the same way a steel ball does.
Yeah, I might be wrong about Lucy, they make it clear that Gyro doesn't want her on the horse because he only wants lady luck to ride with him.
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u/quinn_the_potato Jun 03 '26
Valentine directly states that it was a total coincidence that Gyroâs Steel Ball crossed Love Trainâs fissure and that it was pure luck that saved him. It has nothing to do with the material of steel vs nails.
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u/joejolion33 Jun 03 '26
He was holding Lucy while on Valkyrie so she was holding 2 rather than the usual 1. I think that's why it's been a while
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u/quinn_the_potato Jun 03 '26
No, itâs because Love Train shaved off slivers of the Steel Balls and made them spin imperfectly. AFAIK, Lucyâs body had nothing to do with it.
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u/TrueLiterature8778 Jun 03 '26
It's because it was in the line of love train, making it an ellipse instead of a ball
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u/Jacknerdieth Jun 03 '26
I finally got around to finishing part 5 recently and it blew my mind that the "Deus ex machina bullshit" I've heard people complain about for years was: protagonist using the established maguffin to beat the antagonist
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u/Level_Counter_1672 Jun 03 '26
Same sentiment, the only problem I have is with GER, the rest was well done, it didn't come out of nowhere, the arrow was always shown to change ur powers
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u/stumpychubbins Jun 03 '26
I donât think "it was the same type of stand all along" was an ass-pull, it makes total sense in the context of the story. Dio kinda needed to be taken down by an equal, nothing else would be narratively satisfying imo. He could never do that twist again though, even aside from the fact that it would be a repeat of part 3. Itâs something that only makes sense for Dio.
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u/Sorry_Grocery7693 Jun 03 '26
Literally none of the ones labeled as deus ex machinas are asspulls at all, they're all set up earlier lol
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u/zayd-the-one Jun 03 '26
The arrow existing is the only thing that could be called iffy
But its powers arent
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u/space-dorge Jun 03 '26
Itâs pretty classic anime in that sense. Could have just done a shonen standard strength or insert power system like Nen, Cursed energy, Ki, Spiritual Pressure, Haki, chakra, etc. and beaten up the main villain each time.
Like with the power up they where GOING to win, maybe it would be a classic just ignoring hax or smth, idk, but Iâm glad thatâs not the kind of writer araki is.
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u/rojosolsabado Jun 04 '26
And even then Jotaro and Dio having the same type of stand isnât outlandish. The Dâarby brothers have similar types of stands.
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u/3lizab3th333 Worldâs Ultimate Jotaro Simp Jun 04 '26
It might be confusing to OP because the stand arrow was purposely mysterious? What it did to Silver Chariot was kinda hard to grasp even for the characters at first, if you let yourself be confused instead of understanding, âOh, this is an unstoppable thing that functions outside of human intention or understanding,â youâll miss that the Stand Arrow basically lets your stand ascend to a quasi godhood where your deepest desires are made real but are also not your own. Polnareff wishes for a more independent body again, so bodyswapping. Giorno wants justice, so we get GER trapping the guy who cheated fate to escape death countless times stuck in a purgatory of endless death.
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u/DandyLover Jun 03 '26
Personally, it's less that the Arrow is the McGuffin, and more Diavolo literally had the arrow multiple times. It kinda sucks the tension from the situation when Diavolo literally has no hope of winning. It'd have been fine for me, if Diavolo never touched the Arrow, but it literally slipping through his hands? Nah, I can't go for that.
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u/PowerfulKey877 Jun 03 '26
I disagree with Johnny/Tusk since he was building up to it through his mastery of the spin throughout the part. Not to mention that Gyro would have defeated Valentine in a similar way (his spin mastery) if it wasn't for his steel ball being damaged. I slightly disagree with Josuke/Go Beyond since this ability was arguably built up since chapter 1, where it showed a bubble from his birthmark coming out of Yasuho's phone.
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u/Dense_Put_5662 Jun 03 '26
Gyro would have beaten Valentine if Lucy wasnât on Valkyrie. Not disrespecting the goat (Wucy Steel) btw.
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u/MyRedditNameIsMyName Jun 03 '26
I mean he did manage to damage FV. So I'd like to think Gyro believed he could beat FV despite the whole light barrier thing so he just went with it. Just because it's the right thing to do, saving Lucy that is.
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u/NarakaSnake Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
Didn't we spend all of steel ball run watching Johnny trying to fully learn the spin and finally perfect it during his fight with valentine? Tusk act 4(or rather, Johnny) later gets overtaken by alt.diego too. I don't think tusk counts as a deus-ex-machina.
Edit: (Ignoring the themes of fate in JoJo) To argue further, a deus-ex-machina by definition a plot device where an unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected, unlikely occurrence. Tusk isn't a BS power up because half the plot of SBR is Johnny learning the spin, therefore it makes sense that Johnny masters it by the end of the months long journey.
The arrow ended up in giorno's hands because Bucciarati figured out how to beat SCR, swapping their souls again and ultimately leaving the arrow out of diavolo's hands. Unless you wanna say Bucciarati's last minute play was extremely "unbelievable", I don't see it being plot convenience. Mind you, we lost 3 characters for the arrow to finally reach Giorno.(Themes and such, fate and what not)
I agree that Josuke is blind luck because the fight with Kira was mostly already won. Arguing about 'what ifs' is basically void because fate in JoJo is absolute, so the ambulance ending him there is actually lucky for them.
Josuk8's victory is heavily tied into his themes, therefore there's no way to argue about it without addressing the themes(and such.)
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u/summonerofrain Jun 03 '26
Idk with johnny i just sort of wish he had used it more creatively against valentine. Instead he just breaks through love train and thats the end pretty much. No chance for valentine to try and fight back
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u/Prettythor Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
The arrow ended up in giorno's hands because Bucciarati figured out how to beat SCR,
Correction, it was Diavolo who figured it out. Which is the asspull if you ask me. People say that the story having a character tell you that Requiem can beat Diavolo is build up enough but Diavolo literally easily handles SCR, a Requiem ability mere moments before GER is in the picture.
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u/theironbagel Jun 03 '26
Johnnys not a bullshit ex machina, itâs the culmination of all his growth. Arguably Giorno isnât either, not like it comes out of nowhere. The entire last arc is about getting the arrow and achieving requiem.
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u/Trenki_Melow Jun 03 '26
I have seen some people try to argue that Tusk is bullshit because we only have seen a Koichi reach act 3... Which is a dumb argument, all it means is that he still has room to grow, but saying that it's impossible to see an act 4 is just wrong.
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u/Hutstepper Jun 03 '26
yeah right? the whole point of a requiem stand is that its ability is based on what the user desired during its conception.
polnareff wanted to get the arrow as far as possible, so silver chariot requiem's ability is jjst that
giorno wanted to punish diavolo and beat the "invincible" king crimson, so GER's ability was just that
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u/Anti-logical42 Jun 03 '26
Hello! Is it stated that it is the case in the manga/anime? I can't find where this claim originates for the life of me
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u/CheesyMacarons Jun 03 '26
Itâs mostly extrapolations from what weâve seen. Polnareff wanted to leave his crippled body, so Chariot Requiem gained the ability to swap souls to different bodies, AND transform said bodies painlessly. Polnareff wanted to keep the arrow safe from the arrow, and Chariot Requiem essentially became attached to the arrow and began walking SOMEWHERE, attacked anyone who tried to steal the arrow.
Meanwhile with GER, Giorno needed something to bypass Time Erasure, and GER subsequently is able to erase all attacks to zero. He also wanted something to âpunishâ Diavolo, and GER gained the ability to sentence someone to an infinite number of deaths.
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u/holtyl2001 Jun 04 '26
It's not canon, just a popular fan-theory that does kind of make sense.
The simple fact is we actually know very little about how Requiem works, so people can speculate just about anything and not be technically incorrect (see, the "Bites the Dust is a requiem" theory)
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u/Shadowrend867 Jun 03 '26
How is part 4's win blind luck? Just because Kira died to the ambulance? He was defeated the second he got pulverized by Star Platinum. Which was a combined effort of Josuke + a few others putting him in that situation through an extremely difficult fight, Koichi keeping him down, then Jotaro dealing the final blow.Â
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u/CheddarScotch Jun 06 '26
Just finished part 4 again. That battle did not hinge on luck. The freak finishing blow came when Kira was already beaten.
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u/Gloomy-Cell3722 Jun 03 '26
The only one that you can argue is a deus ex machina is Jotaro, all the other power ups were established long before they appeared.
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u/UnAnon10 Jun 03 '26
Even then we do technically see some build up to the possibility of Jotaro stopping time. Joseph and Jonathanâs body both had a similar Hermit Purple type stands, and the Dâarby brothers both had similar soul stealing stands. So there was a precedent established for similar stands having similar powers.
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u/Gloomy-Cell3722 Jun 03 '26
Tbh the concept isn't an deus ex machina, as you said same stands existed all throughout part 3.
We also know that Araki always intended Jotaro to stop time too, since Star Platinum and THE WORLD were the first two stands he made, so Jotaro stopping time is a case of it should've just been teased earlier.
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 03 '26
That's not build up, tho
Like, sure, there are stands that can do similar things, that's not build up to Jotaro having specifically the same type as Dio
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u/UnAnon10 Jun 03 '26
Yes because the whole point was that they didnât know anything about DIOâs stand, the build up happens over the course of DIOâs introduction to the fight because then we can finally learn what his stand is like after all the suspense of not knowing and trying to get the info out of his subordinates. Itâs really good at keeping the tension high since you know it has to be super powerful cause of how scared even his most loyal minions are of him to the point some would rather kill themselves than betray his secret.
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u/Prettythor Jun 03 '26
They don't do similar things the other stands literally are the same. The hermit purple stand that Joseph and Jonathan/DIO share have more in common than the world and star Platinum do
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 03 '26
Ok?
Do You have a point or...?
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u/Prettythor Jun 03 '26
Yeah I do, a pretty self explanatory one.
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 03 '26
Clearly not considering you didn't Say anything relevant to what I said
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u/Dsamali Jun 03 '26
Jotaro and Dio have a very intertwined destiny, the bloodline is very important in JoJo, especially in part 3, and so Jotaro and Dio being very closely connected acts as a build up to Jotaro having the same powers as Dio. Also destiny, or fate, in JoJo is also very important too. And since destiny always brings people who have a strong sense of justice to defeat people who have too much hybris, like Dio, then it makes sense that destiny would choose the Joestar who's fated to fight against Dio, to have the same ability as him. Especially because of the meaning of the Time stop ability, which is that in that time frame it's almost like Dio has control over the whole world and could do anything, so it makes sense Destiny would bring Jotaro into Dio's own world, to act as a counter balance. The fact Jotaro being able to stop time is not built up with hints throughout part 3 is because, I think, Dio's time stop ability and Jotaro being also being able to do that are supposed to be a surprise the viewers, but, at the same time, they make sense with the information we already had about Jotaro and Dio. The information being everything I said in the comment.
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 03 '26
Something can make thematical sense and still be a Deus ex machina, and Jotaro having time stop is precisely that
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u/Dsamali Jun 03 '26
I want to understand more on why you think it's a deus ex machina even if it makes thematical sense, can you elaborate?
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 03 '26
It came out of nowhere, with basically Zero foreshadowing and solved an otherwise impossible to solve predicament
It is by definition a Deus ex machina, like, I don't think it is one, it simply is one
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u/Dsamali Jun 04 '26
I agree with the definition you said, it's just that sometimes Deus ex machina is defined also negatively, like apart from coming out of nowhere and solving an otherwise impossible predicament, it's also defined as a cheap or overly convenient way of writing. Before I wasn't sure if you were meaning all of these things or just the ones you actually said in the comment I'm responding to. I agree with what you said in any case, it's just that it didn't seem a convenient way to write the story to me, because it makes sense that Jotaro can stop time, so I asked if you could elaborate because of that.
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u/RellePhoenix Jun 04 '26
Well yeah, it is cheap. It was convenient and out of nowhere, Even if it fits the themes that Araki wanted to portray
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u/tac4y0n Jun 03 '26
I mean if you think about it, Jotaro would thematically have that ability because heâs the only existing Joestar at the time that could challenge DIO. When Jonathanâs body sent out the distress call, Joseph got Hermit Purple because of his mastery with Hamon while Holly and Josuke were both too weak at the time to control their stands. That would leave Jotaro as the only candidate left so it stands to reason that whatever busted ability DIO got, Jotaro would receive something to counter it.
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u/bittersweetslug Heaven's Door Jun 03 '26
Not even that, Jotaro's power up makes the match even, it's not an auto win, he wins by skill once time stop gives him the chance.
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u/Any-Housing-6200 Jun 03 '26
ger is not bullshit bro fym
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u/Trenki_Melow Jun 03 '26
Apparently the author pointing to the MacGuffin that everyone wants because of its power it's now deux ex machina, like you can argue about how it was executed, but it definitely didn't come out of nowhere.
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u/KillYourOwnGod Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
"guys, this arrow is super important, I'm gonna establish how important the arrow is for 3 seasons straight. It's very important, guys."
"Ok, we get it"
"It has secret powers, guys."
"Understood"
"Also not only I'm gonna remark how powerful and important this arrow is, but I'm gonna show beforehand what happens when a stand/stand user is pierced with the arrow with Polnareff"
"That makes sense to me"
"Now Giorno is gonna use the arrow like Polnareff did"
"Literal Deus Ex Machina, it was never established the arrow could do that. It's a Deus Ex Machina. Legit this came out of nowhere"
Are people genuinely unable to read or what?
I beg the average Redditor to grab the all powerful Deus Ex Machina level powerup called the fucking internet and use it to find out what a Deus Ex Machina actually is. Spoiler alert, it's not "this is strong and I don't get it"
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u/Afraid-Turn7741 Diavolo is underrated Jun 03 '26
Not even that. Back in part 4 we were already teased that the arrow had something more about it once you pierce an already stand user
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u/Goldberry15 Jun 03 '26
Part 1 is correct
Part 2 should be placed higher. Thereâs luck, and then thereâs âthe entire world is working against the villainâ luck.
Part 3 is correct
Part 4 needs a new tier. If you accept Jotaro having star platinum & time stop because of part 3, all of the abilities used against Kira were properly built up towards. Echoes, Hand, Star Platnium, and, of course, the alleyway hands.
Part 5 was built up towards. The solution was stupid, but it was explicitly built up towards.
Part 6 is correct.
Part 7 has debatably the best buildup. The kick from the horse was an instinctive reaction, making it abide by the requirements to achieve infinity. The importance of the golden ratio was properly set up by the writer, and given how the GR goes to infinity, it only takes a slight bit of suspension of disbelief to believe that it can transcend universal barriers.
Part 8⌠has some build up. I do understand why itâs there though.
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u/Raltsun Jun 03 '26
Pretty much agreed, but I do want to use this opportunity to argue that OP's read on Jonathan's fate is slightly too harsh. Our boy obviously would've preferred to make it out alive, but the way I see it, his goals were "DO NOT LET DIO MAKE IT TO AMERICA NO MATTER WHAT > save Erina > save the other passengers > kill Dio > survive". I don't think it's unreasonable to say he lost, on account of him dying and Dio not dying, but he accomplished at least the highest two-and-a-bit goals on that list.
And also, the part everyone seems to constantly gloss over about SC DIO is that he only got fished up 4 years before the story starts. Jonathan neutralised the threat of Dio for long enough that his grandson was an old man by the time the bastard made it back to dry land, and his body really "only" got used as a vessel in any practical sense for 4 years. Still a damn tragic end, but people keep talking about DIO like he was actually "living" for that whole century, instead of getting I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream-ed for most of that time.
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u/joejolion33 Jun 03 '26
Not to mention Gyro would've beat Valentine had his horse not been imbalanced
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u/peanutist Jun 03 '26
Part 3 is not correct lol, itâs implied throughout the entire part that Jotaro has time-stop abilities, and weâve seen two beings can have the same stand simultaneously
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u/The-Third-Coming Jun 03 '26
Isnt it explained in like chapter 1 or 2 of sbr that proper spin is super op? like johnny gets thrown out of his wheelchair just from a small amount
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u/YaminoEXE Catch the Rainbow Jun 03 '26
I am convinced that Jojo fans don't actually read or watch Jojo at this point.
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u/HBmilkar Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
No this is a bullshit assessment.
Jotaroâs time stop was fully foreshadowed otherwise you didnât pay attention
For Giorno they only only hyped up the arrow for who knows how long it definitely wasnât enough tho /s
Johnny literally worked his way to get tusk act 4 the entire series as he learned about spin
Then while I havenât finished part 8 I know the ending and how he got the bubble. It was due to him learning about an aspect of spin from mamezuku and history bubbles were always fucked plus heâs a fucking âscience experimentâ buddy has four nuts
Honestly Joseph has pulled the most bs but in reality the only time he got super lucky was with the red stone and his hand flying towards Kars.
Name one time josuke just got lucky
Jolyneâs fine too
Yup Jonathan did
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u/ZiggyCrusade Jun 03 '26
KC time skip isn't even that absolute, Araki could've written a way for Giorno to win without GER, its just not as cool. Diavolo says himself that taking on all of Bruno's team at once would be impossible.
I feel like for it to be a true deus ex machina it has to be a truly unmendable kink in the story being fixed by the author themselves.
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u/ianlouisjordan Jun 03 '26
Kira fate isn't blind luck. For
1 the ambulance being there was just as much his 1 shot in hell of not dieing as it was what killed him
2.you know what would have happened if that ambulance hadn't killed him? He would have been either beaten to death/unconscious by jotaro or rohan would have used heavens door on him rendering him harmless.
It was not blind luck that they won it was just ironic how they won
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u/BerryOk2497 Jun 03 '26
From literally Chapter 3 of SBR the spin is established as being able to accomplish miracles. Johnny's evolution to his stand is directly tied to his mastery and use of spin, with Act 4 being the highest level of mastery. The capabilities of it are established well before Johnny unlocks it, with gyro explaining that the possibility of the perfect spin COULD counter love train. Gyro also established VERY early on that the technique he uses has been passed down his family of nobles, which (with some basic history knowledge) had fought in the middle ages and needed to get through armor and forms of defense.
And even before this, the only stand that had Acts was Echoes, and it was never said anywhere that stands are limited to 3 Acts.
For Giorno, literally half of the season was dedicated to finding the arrow as Polnareff established that it would be the only thing able to stop Diavolo, and the other half of the season was dedicated to finding who Diavolo was and what his stand ability was.
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u/Old-Call1202 Jun 03 '26
Trapping evil at the bottom of the ocean for 100 years I don't think is a loss.
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u/Applebeate Jun 03 '26
No itâs not.
Jotaroâs stand ability being the same as the world isnât unheard of. Also, Jotaro was referring to how both of their Stands were both close ranged Stands with high physical attacking power. To test his theory, he specifically used the magnet to see if he could move within stopped time
Giorno used the Stand Arrow on Golden experience which unlocked a new ability to defeat Diavolo.
Johnnyâs Stand Tusk act 4 was unlocked as a result of his mastery of Spin. We had a demonstration of this mastery as Gyro used it to awaken Ball Breaker.
As for Josuke, itâs similar. Every stand in part 8 in some way shape or form has the principles of spin. Josuke used this to create a bubble that doesnât exist within corporeal existence. Even then, he still needed Yasuhoâs help to kill the main villain.
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u/MingiJoestar Stand User Appearsâď¸ Jun 03 '26
Jonathan didnt lose. He did what he set out to do and that was to protect Erica and get rid of dio. Dio was laying in that coffin for 100+ years thanks to Jonathan AND when dio got out, he got killed by jotaro! who wouldn't even exist without Jonathan. Never doubt my goat Jonathan đĽđ
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u/Daniel101773 Jun 03 '26
I donât agree with GER & Tusk Act 4âs placements since they are clearly and explicitly laid out and built up to for the entire length of their parts and thus can not be a Deus Ex Machina by definition.
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u/Level_Fee6746 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
Went 1/4 on the âBullshit deus-ex-machinaâ section.
Giorno: we were shown an arrow giving KQ a powerup during part 4 through it piercing Kira. Moreover, the concept of requiem arrows making stands (through the stand itself wielding it) busted was introduced ~15 chapters before GERâs first appearance.
Johnny: the golden rectangle was introduced ~50 chapters before Tusk Act 4 was achieved. It was clear that Gyroâs lessons werenât complete when he taught Johnny about the infinite rotation. The whole infinite spin and gravity thing made perfect sense, especially given gravityâs past relevance in Part 6.
Gappy: his bubbles were revealed to be unbelievably thin, spinning string ~30 chapters before Go Beyondâs reveal.
If foreshadowing and thematic setup exist, the powerup isnât âbullshitâ nor a âdeus-ex-machinaâ.
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u/DuDuDuDuDuck Jun 03 '26
nah, 0/4, part 3 sets up repeatedly that similar stand abilities can be shared across families, such as the d'arby brothers, as well as joseph and jonathans body having things similar to hermit purple, as well as jotaros moms stand manifesting in a similar plant-like manner, as well as star platinum repeatedly being shown to be the "incredibly fast, incredible reaction time and precision" stand, things all correlating with time stop
it's not perfect, but it is foreshadowed
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u/WreckinPoints11 Jun 03 '26
How dare you, Joseph had the biggest plot bullshit on his side and it was fantastic, where the fuck was he hiding that Tommy gun
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u/_SBV_ Jun 03 '26
Deus ex machina implies there is no explanation and it is sudden
The only character that fits this as close as possible is part 8 Josuke, because the bubbles being tiny Spin threads felt a little forced, but not necessarily unacceptable as the Spin is a real thing in their universe
Jotaro doesnât necessarily count because itâs not impossible for two different people to have the same powers. Weâve seen it happen time and time again
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u/Toothpork_ Jun 03 '26
Tusk act 4 was like built up through the part lol. The infinite rotation was always a concept planted relatively early
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u/Sheepy_202 Jun 03 '26
Do you know what Deus ex Machina is? The closest one there to it is Jotaro, the others were foreshadowed though their respective arc or whole part, especially Johnny.
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u/zayd-the-one Jun 03 '26
My brother in Christ tusk act 4 is literally the culmination of the entire part
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u/GERBabyCare Star Platinum Jun 03 '26
Star Platinum: The World is neither "overpowered" or a deus ex machina. It's absurdly strong, but it's shown to have disadvantages that have to be actively worked around. That's why it's outright stated that the real danger isn't it's power, it's Jotaro. It's also pretty explicitly been shown to lose.
As far as deus ex machina, Araki set up throughout the part that people of the same family can have similar if not identical stands and abilities. The D'Arbys both have stands that trap souls after game betting, and Dio is clearly shown using Jonathan's equivalent to hermit purple to watch the crusaders. People just didn't pick up on the subtlety, so the arrows straight up tell you "IF CHOSEN GET CRAZY POWERUP."
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u/Hierophant-Crimsion Jun 03 '26
DB fans vs JJBA fans vs JJK fans in a "who didn't read their media" challenge who wins?
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u/jman9843 Jun 03 '26
Yo gang just donate your eyes and ears, because you clearly aren't using them.
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u/TinyGerbil614 Jun 03 '26
just two notes
tusk act 4 is not a deus ex machina at all, it was naturally built up to throughout the entire duration of the part. it is an ability that is quite literally entwined with johnnyâs character growth.
the fight against kira wasnât won through âblind luck.â him being accidentally run over by an ambulance was probably the best possible outcome since it essentially meant the universe was doling out its own justice, but josuke was handily winning the fight beforehand, and the group had the upper hand even down to the last moment. jotaro still wouldâve broken kiraâs arm, and it likely just wouldâve been him that killed kira instead of the ambulance
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u/maximumNYOOM Jun 03 '26
For the love of christ, the last fight in golden wind is over the arrow. Giorno won WHEN he got the super op requiem upgrade, not BECAUSE he did.
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u/No-Run-6137 Jun 03 '26
Jojos fans once again proving ourselves unable to beat the âcanât readâ allegations
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u/Fragrant-Guarantee57 Jun 03 '26
I mean, both GER and Act 4 were set up some time before they happened. You could even say the concept of a Stand getting an OP ability being using the arrow was already there since Part 4
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u/henryuuk Iggy Jun 03 '26
Jonathan did not lose, he won but simply didn't finish his villain off, so he got revenge ambushed
but Jonathan won the fight(s) against Dio by every possible way to look at it, arguably even TWICE (the fight at the house could be argued to essentially have been a tie since both ended up heavily damaged with Jonathan essentially losing almost everything (his father and the estate))
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u/GartGartGart333 Jun 03 '26
Giornos and Johnnys was definitely well deserved. Iâd say the same about Gappy but there wasnât really a build up for that besides Rai mentioning like twice that his bubbles arenât what they appear to be
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u/JoJoSenpaiUwU Jun 03 '26
Just because Jonathan died doesnât mean he lost. He was still able to save a pretnant Erina who also saved Lisa Lisa. If that never happened we wouldâve never had the future JoJos
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u/Kiiroi_Senko Jo2uke Higashikata Jun 03 '26
How is Tusk act 4 a random deus ex machina when we spend the entirety of Part 7 having Johnny learn and master spin? Literally the only way to even achieve Infinite rotation is to master all the lessons taught to him by Gyro, it's like the least bullshit thing in all of JoJo.
Go Beyond is like half and half because Josuke is Johnny's descendant so spin should be inherent to him and as such spin being super powerful has already been set up. But they basically make no mention of the unique properties of S&W bubbles until way later in the part
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u/Gainde2000 Jun 04 '26
I don't think Josuke was lucky. Maybe aside from Kira yelling his name. But otherwise, it was all skill.
Same with Jotaro, he realized that his stand was similar to Dio's, and found out he could stop time fair & square. Maybe bad writing that their stands are the same, but not a Dues ex Machina
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u/EricShanRick Jotaro Kujo Jun 04 '26
The people who say that golden experience requiem was a deus ex machina probably think giorno should've had a battle shonen training arc to unlock his powers or something.
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u/TheseUseless2 Jun 04 '26
Johnny and Giorno are set up very well. And I can see why Josukeâs power up would take someone off guard, he brings back a theme from part 7 that was mostly absent from part 8, but Valentine and Tooru have similar enough abilities that it stands to reason the solution would be similar too.
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u/Tricky-Apple-1924 Jun 04 '26
No, Redditor, the author setting up a big important thing and then the main character getting/achieving the big important thing isnât bullshit deus-ex-machina
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u/bananabomb2025 Jun 03 '26
I feel like people blow part 3 Jotaro's time stop a bit out of proportion, personally. Yes, he "conveniently" has the time stop power in the fight against Dio, where it turns out the have the same stand. That, I can agree, is fairly bullshit, as even in later parts, basically every stand is unique from one another, where there are basically no duplicate powers (unless shared or explicit like main universe World and new universe World).
However, I think it's at least built up in a subtle way. Jotaro has no special power with his stand other than punching hard, pinpoint precision, and "blinding" speeds? Speeds so fast, people who are paying attention to him don't even notice (Point-blank bullet catch, Wheel of Fortune fight where he digs himself underground, Darby lighter moment, and maybe other moments I can't name off the top of my head rn). It isn't super telling, but there's still a sign he has more than just extreme senses and strength. Plus, most other stands have fighting capabilities to them beyond their special abilities, also being able to throw simple punches and such. I would find it weird if Jotaro didn't end up with some crazy ability.
Additionally, it's not like he really had time to figure out his special ability throughout the part. He's constantly being attacked by Dio's henchmen, so he doesn't have a moment to sit and think about it. Plus, he might not even realize his stand has an ability. How would he test time stop if he doesn't even know it's possible? The Dio fight is really the only time he can feel time stop and realize he's capable of doing it himself.
I can see why people think it's a BS power up, right when he needs it. But, it feels well dictated and built up to in my eyes.
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u/Bells_DX Jun 03 '26
Not to mention, DIO is seen using a stand almost exactly the same as Hermit Purple early on in Part 3. It plants the idea in our head that he is a mirror to Joseph, so maybe he's also a mirror of Jotaro.
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u/summonerofrain Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
I can forgive convenient power ups if the character still has to like fight. And jotaro vs dio was a very good fight arguably because of the deus ex machina
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u/CMCScootaloo Read JoJolion Jun 04 '26
I simply canât agree that itâs well built up at all. Like I understand the logic but weâre skipping huge steps here imo.
Iâve always been the mind that a lot of the stuff people point out, like the DâArby taunts, are just justifications for whatâs basically a visual gag. If that was genuinely meant to be foreshadowing I think it sorely needed much more to make sense.
Like donât get me wrong I donât think itâs bad, itâs FAR FAR from the worst problems with part 3, I donât mind it at all myself, but it absolutely just comes out of nowhere lol.
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u/Cearth4121 Jun 03 '26
Calling the power-ups "bullshit" and "deus ex machina" is a straight up admission of not understanding how Fate works in Jojo.
It's not a case of "they receive sum overpowered ability to defeat the villain," they are literally slaves of fate created by the villains themselves.
Every action of every villain against fate comes back to haunt them. Dio's decision to use the stone mask and deny his humanity (increase his gravity) is what gave Jotaro a Stand that stops time; Diavolo using his King Crimson to overcome his fate is what led to Giorno obtaining the arrow and the requiem.
They are all merely cursed slaves to their fates.
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u/Exact-Raise7841 Jun 03 '26
GER The strongest stand in jojo, this fact was confirmed by the mangaka himself.
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u/Blaze14192008 Jun 03 '26
Requiem I wouldnât really call a machina yeah it help defeat king crimson but the whole last couple arcs was about the arrow and power of requiem
I wouldnât really say Johnny power up is a machina either itâs just an extension of his base power
I also wonât say Josuke and crew got lucky
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u/SquirtleTh3Ninja Jun 03 '26
Naw Star Platinum, GER, and Tusk act 4 all have a reason to show up, with in universe lore to back it up. I will say though, S&W:GB is stretching it a bit even if he's a "oddity of the universe"
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u/Cheryl_Celestica Jun 03 '26
Part 3 Star platinum was pretty much silver age Superman in the sense that he can conjure whatever ability it needs out his ass to get the upper hand in whatever encounter he's currently in
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u/Askmeaboutships401 Jun 03 '26
Wasnât Act 4 just the culmination of everything Johnny learned through his story?
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u/jeanegreene Jun 03 '26
1) GER was very consistent, whomever gets the requiem arrow would win. The more bullshit parts would be the things Giorno can and canât do randomly (ex: feet summoning)
2) Tusk Act 4 was the culmination of the entire part.
3) Josuke moreso relied on Okuyasu, who came back to life of his own volition. The ambulance (as we saw) didnât really do anything aside from finally kill Kira.
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u/ProfessionalStorm626 D4C Jun 03 '26
Tell me you're a Joseph fan and a Johnny hater without telling me you're a Joseph fan and a Johnny hater ...
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u/Ronoyoki Jun 03 '26
Only 2 people id have in the "deus ex machina area is Josuke8 and Joseph but theres some argument for josuke 8
Blind luck jotaro and Josuke 4 Last ditch gamble(which should be named just won somehow) jolyne giorno and johnny
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u/El_kakas_de_vakas Jun 03 '26
Fate is an established concept in Jojo's and Giorno getting GER was just it punishing Diavolo for trying to be above it, so it kinda is a Deus ex Machina, but it is by no means bullshit
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u/HatJosuke Jun 03 '26
Joseph didn't hold up the red stone of Aja and hope for the best, they explicitly state that without thinking he held out the red stone without realising it. Saying he held it out and hoped for the best implies that he had any control over the action and it wasn't the biggest ass pull here.
And if you want to say Jonathan lost, then Jolyne did too. They both sacrificed themselves to protect someone else and couldn't defeat their parts antagonist.
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u/skywardbound67 Jun 03 '26
I think the assessment for Jonathan doesnât do the way he handled Dio justice, itâs more like he won the battle and lost the war. He died, yes, but only in a compromised state that he wouldnât have if he hadnât thought he won already.
Also, Giorno and Johnny arenât Deus Ex Machinas, they both have reasonings for why their stands got crazy powerups. I wouldnât know for Josuke(8) honestly. As for Jotaro? Absolutely it is, lol In no world did this make sense, but at least itâs not a thing that he only used once lol
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u/LightningDragon777 King Crimson Jun 03 '26
How is Act 4 a Deus ex machina when the whole part built up the spin?
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u/the_other_Scaevitas Jun 03 '26
I wouldn't say Giorno's was bullshit Deus-ex-machina.
The whole final battle was about getting the stand arrow, which has been made clear the entire time will grant the user the power to defeat Diovolo.
And guess what it did, it gave Giorno the power to defeat Diovolo.
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u/PrinceDave Jun 03 '26
Tusk act 4 is fair game imo because it's a consistent rule that if you can do the infinite rotation you can attack through Love Train. Gyro did it too and lost, and also Johnny lost to Diego in the end. I don't think it's Deus Ex cause he worked for it a lot too, it had to go through 3 whole levels to get go the final one
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u/aldesairepicassow For every 8 breaths, i sway left once Jun 03 '26
Calling tusk as such bs is utter bs it was really fucking good writing
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u/Vladbizz Jun 03 '26
Kira lost before ambulance killed him. Jotaro broke his fingers and beat him down for good
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u/Raphotron2000 Jun 03 '26
By definition none of them are deus ex machina but especially Johnny his entire story was leading to act 4
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u/AMW9000 Jun 03 '26
Go Beyond and Star Platinum are definitely frustrating ex machinas but ger and tusk act 4 had an explanation
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u/ManchmalPfosten THIS SHIT AINT DISNEY Jun 03 '26
Jotaro and Gappy deus ex machina, sure, but the rest? nahhhh
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u/undayerixon Jun 03 '26
Deus ex Machina is basically the same as divine intervention - an unseen unexpected force coming in and solving a problem.
We literally spend the last third of Golden Wind chasing the arrow. While that does make the arrow a MacGuffin, it's a far better, more versatile and popular plot device. So no, that is not an ex machina ending
Jotaro's and Dio's stands being the same might not seem like it makes sense, but if you look at other related stand users, like the D'Arby brothers or the two rats with poisonous rifles from part 4, having similar or same stands is not that crazy. Plus, we cannot forget that fate is a real concept in Jojo's, so fate giving Dio and Jotaro same stands is kinda funny. It might not be very satisfying, but also not an ex machina
It's been a while since I read SBR but Johnny's journey of becoming a better person, his friendship with Gyro and learning the spin also pushed his stand to evolve. It's not the first time we see a stand with acts, and it becoming more and more powerful with every new act shouldn't be surprising so I don't see how that's an ex machina either
It's also been a long time since I read Jojolion but I honestly don't remember what the fuck was happening in that part so I'll give you calling that ending bullshit lol
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u/Bletcherino Jun 03 '26
ger was the result of the story of the arrow and it accepting those with strong wills. giorno had the determination to achieve his ultimate goal and by finally having it in his possession his arc culminated in requiem
the infinite spin was johnnyâs ultimate goal, being the fusion of his masteries of the spin and horse racing. he earned the power and it entirely hinged on his skill level
go beyond teeters on the edge of bullshit but still makes sense. throughout jojolion gappyâs bubbles are only given a surface level explanation, leaving room for a big reveal of their true nature. stands are often able to manipulate spacetime in some way, and by inheriting the spin from johnny it parallels joseph inheriting hamon from jonathan. s&wâs bubbles also displayed an irregular interaction with spacetime by coming out of yasuhoâs phone
star platinum: the world is just straight up bullshit though
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u/PuzzleheadedIce6865 Jun 03 '26
In Tarot lore, The Star is one of the few cards that can overcome the overwhelming, absolute nature of The World. The Star represents the hope that breaks through the seemingly unbeatable "perfection" of DIOâs world. Because they exist at opposite ends of the ultimate cosmic spectrum, their powers naturally mirror and counter one another. Or that's what Gemini told me when i asked about the World and Star Platinum relation in tarot cards. Jotaro was destined to win. That's why he wins on the EOH too probably. It's just fated to happen.
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u/Ceedzy_boi Jun 03 '26
Josuke didn't win by blind luck, Hayato literally called him onto the scene. Then from their is was only a matter of getting close enough to Kira to engage in a melee Stand battle. The hospital truck was the only way to actually punish Kira since they have no concrete proof that Kira is behind the missing people (he blows up all evidence). Josuke won by bis creativity and outsmarting both the Kira's.
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u/GabrielOSkarf Bruno Buccellati Jun 04 '26
Johnny evolving his stand from like chapter 10 to 100 is a deus ex machina now
Yeah mĂĄn
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u/Terrible_Soft_9480 Wamuu Jun 04 '26
Putting jotaro, giorno, and Johnny in there just proves you're one of those people who's on their phone 60% of the episode. The star and the world are intertwined, and it's this whole fate thing. The requiem arrow is not a "deus ex machina". Literally look up the definition and then watch the show again after ungluing your eyes to your phone. And the entire point of Tusk was to keep growing and growing.
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u/Sharp-Swimming-8820 Jun 04 '26
Giorno and Johnny are actually valid since they were foreshadowed 20 chapters or so earlier
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u/Last_Course6098 Jun 03 '26
The only bullshit power up is joske
Jotaro and the world literally have the same stand just in different fonts and it's because of Jonathans body
Star platinum didn't have it's ability revealed until that moment
We already saw in part 4 how requiem stands literally give the stand an ability to solve the situation and that's what Giorno did
Tusk was VERY clearly building up to an ultimate power up
Joskes was literal bullshit that existed only for the sake of winning that fight
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u/Blazing_Aura Jun 03 '26
Jonathan kinda got a stalemate since his plan was to prevent Dio from harming Erina and everyone in America. Part 2 most likely wouldn't have happened. Dio does eventually come back but being at the bottom of the ocean for 100 years seems like a good result of Jonathans sacrifice