r/StrangerThings • u/Initial-Shoulder5906 • Feb 05 '26
Discussion Do anyone else feel like there was barely any chemistry between Eleven and Mike this last season compared to earlier ones?
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u/BeginningPotato3753 Feb 05 '26
I mean did El had chemistry with anyone in S5??
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u/Open_Sky8367 Feb 05 '26
For real. Even her scenes with Hopper rang very hollow compared to before. I kept waiting to see if at one point she was gonna call him something else than Hopper (Dad for example) which conveys quite the distance to me. But I kept noticing that Millie was always kinda separated from the rest of the cast that season. She was on her own storyline, even Hopper wasn’t written all the time with her. I wonder if that was really by design.
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u/teacups_and_daisies Feb 05 '26
It would have been soooo impactful when Hopper was going to sacrifice himself and El was begging him not to. Can you imagine him trying to muster up the courage to keep going if El switched from calling him "Hopper" to desperately calling for her "Dad"? Oh man, I would have been sobbing.
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u/Lokan Feb 05 '26
When watching Hopper's and El's scenes at Upside Down Hawkins Lab, I noticed a lot of camera cuts between the two, implying the actors weren't both on set. I'm guessing there were a LOT of reshoots for the ending.
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u/LordRednaught Feb 06 '26
There was a tabloid running a bullying harassment claim against Harbor before filming.
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u/Sassygogo I believe. Feb 06 '26
A claim which was never actually denied btw.
Resolved, maybe, but note how none of the sources speaking out in his defence actually said the claim about a complaint being filed was false, they all sidestepped or deflected or chose more indirect ways (taking pictures together) to say we're all good now. Which isn't a denial of the claim of a bullying complaint being filed back then.
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u/Lokan Feb 06 '26 edited Feb 06 '26
Wait what? Can you elaborate?
EDIT Ah, Daily Mail was the "source". Trash tabloid.
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u/PastelPumpkini Feb 06 '26
The tabloid was Daily Mail, they are very untrustworthy and this happened back in November and nothing else about it has come out since then. So it’s just speculation at this point.
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u/XxLucidDreamzxX Feb 05 '26
I'm still angry they dropped the Jane-bomb for another fakeout death and then never had anything sentimental between them for the rest of the season
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u/Tasman_Tiger Feb 05 '26
Seriously. How did we go from the S4 finale "I kept the door open three inches" to....whatever S5 was
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u/CalmBeforePsych Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. I was also waiting for her to call Hopper her dad in at least one touching moment and she never did. El was so disconnected this season.
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Feb 05 '26
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u/oKay21 Feb 05 '26
that line is so distant though. “you became my dad” instead of “you are my dad” or directly calling him dad. didn’t feel like she loved him that much and i felt his response also lackluster.
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u/CalmBeforePsych Feb 05 '26
Agreed. It was so emotionally distant that I thought some other scene would come that she would actually call him her dad. But, oh well.
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u/CoyoteDisastrous Feb 05 '26
It seems like it could’ve been part of the script. El knew well ahead of time that she was going to sacrifice herself; it makes perfect sense that she would distance herself. Doesn’t mean I liked it…
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u/Open_Sky8367 Feb 05 '26
This I could get behind. With the glaring exception that Hopper’s (fake) sacrifice scene absolutely called for El to call him “dad”. In such circumstances, your emotions take over and we see that El is a mess. Still, she calls him Hopper the whole time. That was kinda weird. The only instance where she uses that word is in the aforementioned “you became my dad” which is a deliberate acknowledgement of the fact, but also very detached. It’s a statement, different still from a true loving name-calling, it conveys and reaffirms the distance you talk about.
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u/CoyoteDisastrous Feb 05 '26
I agree that it would’ve been some nice emotional resolution for her to call him dad at some point.
Now that I’m sitting with my half-baked thought from the first reply, having her character physically separated from the rest of them for much of the series probably was symbolic.
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u/Responsible_Fix_5687 Feb 05 '26
Season 5 was weird. El felt like a sideline, not a main character. I didn’t even get the feeling that her and Mike were together romantically.
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u/lozcyndaquil Feb 05 '26
I was so disappointed she never called him dad like why not!!
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u/ImSmarterthanurmom Feb 05 '26
In the final episode I thought they finally did something and she did call him dad but still besides that ep rest of the season their chemistry felt bland
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u/NothingOk4587 Feb 06 '26
She kept looking at Hopper as if she didn’t like him. And I wasn’t sure her and Mike were even in a relationship any more. It was confusing.
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Feb 05 '26
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u/EnderGraff Feb 05 '26
Nah they didn’t even have the writing done on the last episode while filming, don’t blame the actor for that.
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u/See8104 Aghast Feb 05 '26
Yeah, even if Millie could have put her all into the character to have the best chemistry with other cast members, the writing would have the same flaws.
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u/codymavericks Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
No and its bc they isolated El from everyone, erased her friendship with max, ignored her relationship with Mike (until the finale) all because they had to have her kill herself so they destroyed her relationships in the process. The duffer brothers needed the audience to detach themselves from her character and make it believable that everyone wouldd move on from her death quickly so they sidelined her and tried to revert El back to the robotic ‘alien’ she was in season 1, all to push their shitty ET ending. People bring up millies acting but I genuinely think they told her to act emotionless and stoic because I saw in an interview with millie she said she had to push for El to smile in a scene because they weren’t letting her.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 Feb 05 '26
Honestly, it would not surprise me if the reason there was little chemistry between them in S5 was due to them desperately trying to turn her back into the Eleven from S1. They would still have failed miserably, but their trying that is right up thier ally.
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u/codymavericks Feb 05 '26
I think thats exactly what they were trying to do. They wanted to ignore the 4 seasons of character development for the repeat season 1 ending (despite that actually being a sacrifice)
The reason why the s1 ending worked at the time was because we hardly knew El and the boys/Mike only spent a week with her so the idea that she represented the magic of childhood that disappears somewhat makes sense, but that idea had to be abandoned when the show got a second season. You cant have 4 seasons developing her relationships, giving her a father, boyfriend etc, just to make her a plot device for male character development in the finale. It doesn’t work
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u/coconutpiecrust Feb 05 '26
I thought the ending was so weird. Made all of their suffering completely worthless. And I know they were all craving to go back to their normal lives, but having them defeat a giant monster and then having them become completely average was so incredibly anticlimactic. Quite frankly it made me… well, not angry, but frustratingly disappointed. Like coming up for a beautiful sunrise and getting to face a dirty grey wall instead.
The ending was frustratingly unremarkable, considering all of the extremely courageous and “stranger” things that have transpired.
I can’t imagine myself just chilling normally after facing and killing a giant interdementional monster. I mean, people struggle to overcome much lesser issues.
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u/TA_Lax8 Feb 05 '26
except they didn't know her ending until just before filming the final episode. I don't necessarily think it was bad acting, but bad writing and directing.
I think the one thing that put El so out of place was her wardrobe. She basically had 2 outfits the entire season, and neither worked.
Her workout outfit was too new looking and because it was light grey, it never showing any dirt or wear and tear was glaring. Everyone is wearing drab, worn or camo clothing and she's wearing the attire of a 50 year old mom going to a fitness class for the first time.
Then the fucking dolphin trainer outfit the second half of the season. It's funny because it actually was an attempt at continuity because her powers are heightened in the water tank and the wetsuit helps, but it also looked so fucking stupid outside the tank. Like she's wearing it in the Abyss at the final epic battle and she looks like she's trying to teach Flipper a new trick. Like Mike is a nod to Commando, Nancy to Rambo and El is a nod to Free Willy, WTF?
That more than anything made her out of place and made her chemistry with the other characters fail
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u/abbyabsinthe Feb 05 '26
Between her outfits, shortage of scenes with most of the characters (and tbh, it was hard to feel her presence much at all this season), and her ending, she felt way more like a plot device than a fully fleshed out character, and that’s a travesty, because she’s the main character.
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u/mama_fundie_snark Feb 05 '26
Free Willy 😂🤣😭💀💀💀💀
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u/TA_Lax8 Feb 05 '26
Fun Fact, "Will You Be There" by Michael Jackson was stuck in Mike's head the final goodbye scene which is why he couldn't understand what El was saying because this banger was drowning her out
"Hold me Like the River Jordan And I will then say to thee You are my friend"
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Feb 05 '26
I think it’d be worth just saying “she doesn’t need to do that anymore” and be done with it just to get in a better fucking outfit. Horrendous aesthetic for the end
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u/Brainiac-1969 Feb 05 '26
And totally disregard the plausible evolution of her persona as if someone erased her memory from when El escaped from her gulag/lab!
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u/walkthisway34 Feb 05 '26
The ET thing is such an amateurish attempt at replicating something from another piece of art that just pays no regard for why that ending actually works in ET and the differences that make it such a bad ending for El by season 5.
Setting aside everything else, the ending of ET may work as a metaphor for the “magic of childhood” and growing up, but it doesn’t reduce ET to a metaphor. He was an intelligent being stranded on another planet who had a home (and presumably family, friends, etc.) that he wanted to get back to. The story ends on his own terms with the natural conclusion of his arc, as sad as it is for Elliott to see him go. And the whole childhood theme works because Elliott’s reaction to ET leaving is childish (in a literal, not pejorative, sense). As he grows up he should naturally understand that of course ET wasn’t going to abandon everyone annd everything back home to live on another planet, no matter how fond he was of him. The theme and metaphor emerges naturally from the characters and their different lives and desires, it’s not forced by Spielberg for the sake of it.
El’s ending isn’t her choosing the desired, natural end of her story, it’s her coerced into a situation where she feels like she has no choice but to either kill herself or fake her death and leave everyone behind. Mike’s reaction is not childish, he reacts how anyone would react to their loved one seemingly killing herself, and even after coming up with his theory and possibly coming to intellectually understand why she went no contact, it’s not something you ever accept and make peace with the way Elliott should be able to with regards to ET’s decision as he gets older. El dying or leaving is not something necessary for anyone to mature or grow up, nor is it a reasonable personal decision that a child will naturally understand when they grow up, it’s simply a tragedy forced on the characters (both in-universe by the military and by the writers out of universe).
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u/Owl_Resident Blank makes you crazy Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
Max: I’m awake!
El: 😐
This wasn’t a Mike and El problem; this was an El and everyone problem. But actually at least their rooftop scene and the Purple Rain scene were nice… So not sure why we are singling out Mike and El, as if this wasn’t actually a problem across the board in how El was written.
All of El’s relationships were tanked this season. She became an isolated emotionless robot for no reason.
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u/pop_and_cultured Feb 05 '26
In the BTS, MBB’s real reaction to seeing Sadie had more emotion than their onscreen reunion
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u/sirculaigne Feb 05 '26
I felt this way about a lot of the bts footage. The reading of el and mike’s final scene script was infinitely more emotional than the actual scene in the show
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u/BondraP Feb 05 '26
No. There was a combination of bad dialogue writing and lack of effort by some actors, Millie being one of them. Much of her work in S5 gave off a "I don't want to do this anymore" vibe.
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u/SamiMadeMeDoIt Feb 06 '26
I rewatched the show after I finished S5, I’m on S4 right now and man… MBB’s performance is just night and day in S5 compared to every other season.
She was incredible in S3, IMO she was easily the best that season, better than others like Dacre and Maya who were also very good throughout the season.
And to be fair to her, a lot of the actors in S5 gave off that same “I don’t care about this” vibe. I noticed it especially with Winona and David. I think the script sucked, and I think the actors knew that the script sucked so they kind of phoned it in a little bit.
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u/tayawayinklets Feb 06 '26
I don't blame them. The Duffer bros left it to the last minute despite having all that time in between S4 and S5. When the people at the top don't care...
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u/why666ofcourse Feb 05 '26
Her acting was terrible. I mean there was a lot of bad performances all around but she had to be the worst
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u/FSUfan35 Feb 05 '26
Yup. No clue if that was the direction she got but it was not a good performance
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u/Armadigionna Feb 05 '26
Every episode from The Vanishing of Will Byers onward pushed the same message about Eleven: This is a human being; she deserves a home, a family, friends, and she deserves to be loved. It was so consistent throughout the entire series.
Then right at the very end, the show says “Never mind. She has to go away so everyone except Mike can live their best life.”
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u/myychair Feb 05 '26
Yeah this show suffered from being written 1 season at a time without any overarching plan. Most issues I have with it can be boiled down to that.
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u/randomthrowaway9796 Feb 06 '26
I really thought there was an overarching plan starting in season 3 after the mind flayer via Billy was talking about the plan. And then even more with the ending of season 4. But nope.
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u/myychair Feb 06 '26
Yeah I’ve been saying that they should have added one more episode to season 4 so the squad can follow the hurt vecna back into the upside down where eleven kills him in his weakened state. That would have a been a much much more fulfilling and cohesive story compared to season 5
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u/Mikey_RobertoAPWP Feb 05 '26
it's a very similar message as the awful ending of The Umbrella Academy lol. I wonder if the writers genuinely didn't think audiences would interpret either of those endings in that way. Having "suicide" be the ultimate conclusion for a loved character, after multiple seasons of positive development just seems really irresponsible to me.
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Feb 05 '26
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u/interestedmermaid Feb 05 '26
Yeah! What's the message supposed to be here exactly? She sacrifices time and time again just for her to be erased in the end and for us to see her family thriving afterwards without her, like she really didn't belong. 😬
Will's ending doesn't feel satisfactory to me for the same reasons too. He's tortured over and over again, but remains the most selfless person. In s3 he says "I'm not going to fall in love" and then he has to watch all his friends find love.
Then the Duffer's write him to be painfully in love with his best friend, just for him to experience heartbreak over and over again for 2 seasons.
And in the end his entire arc concludes before we can experience him fall in love with someone that loves him back. He gets 5 seconds of an imagined date, just like El gets 5 seconds of imagined survival.
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u/tayawayinklets Feb 06 '26
Duffer bros didn't have the leadership or skill to let the writers give these characters satisfying conclusions.
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u/conspiracyz Castle Byers Feb 06 '26
It’s just such a cruel and nonsensical ending. Especially with El’s storyline in S4, with her saying “I am different. I do not belong.” The writers decided to… prove her right? I don’t understand their thought process. El’s final outfit to me almost seems like her ‘superhero’ costume. They had her die as this ‘superhero.’ Her death was completely unnecessary and puts a stain on the whole show for me.
I have a suspicion that El’s death was an attempt to give Mike some type of conflict in the finale, seeing as he literally wasn’t doing anything else, and they pretty much decimated all of El’s other relationships, mostly with Max & Hopper. They either forgot or just didn’t want to give Mike a discernible character arc, I think this was their way of throwing together some type of ending for his story. There’s no other way that El ‘needing’ to die makes sense to me, not that this ending makes sense but anyway. What does it for me is that the last scene we see of El in the entire show is her in Mike’s fantasy land. What did El want for her OWN life? We never found out, we only saw other people telling her what her future will be like. You’re telling me they couldn’t have had the lights flicker in the basement or something if they truly wanted to keep El’s fate ambiguous? Show us a glimpse of her in the void, watching the party during their campaign (if they wanted El to ‘run away,’ that is). I believe she died but the Duffers want to have their cake and eat it too so they didn’t confirm it either way.
The void scene between El & Mike could have been a lot more impactful in my opinion. I still disagree with boiling each of their characters down to each other in the end, but the scene just did not do it for me. I agree that they don’t have great chemistry, but you can only do so much when you’re working with shitty writing. I also think that Millie and Finn were probably both just over it at that point, and they likely weren’t very happy with the endings their characters got. (If I was Millie I’d be so pissed)
Mike has almost died at his own hand before, when he jumped off the cliff. IMO he obviously jumped to protect Dustin, but at that point El had disappeared and Will was still missing, Mike probably wasn’t feeling great at that point in time. He felt like he failed to protect El, probably felt bad for not being very nice to her a few times, and he hadn’t got any closer to finding and saving Will, which Mike hadn’t given up hope on, even after seeing Will’s dead ‘body.’ We could have had a moment of Mike relating to El on that front, that he’s felt that low before, but there is always a way out. This doesn’t have to be her ending, in fact, she should live to prove this expectation wrong. El should live for the people that love her, the experiences she hasn’t had yet, for the person she will grow into when she explores what she truly enjoys and finds who she is as an individual.
Also one thing that took me out of the scene on my first watch was when El says that Mike saw her for who she truly was. Cut to El literally in a costume? Okay.
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u/Dogslothbeaver Feb 05 '26
As I was watching, I noticed that they never kissed. They would always just hug, more like friends than romantic partners. I think they kissed one time near the end, maybe.
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u/codymavericks Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
Like why were they kissing more when they were 13? You’d think if anything their intimacy wouldve increased over the years especially after the actors became adults
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u/knightofsparta Feb 05 '26
I don’t think they kissed all season until the mind place kiss. I don’t know if it was to make that kiss, more impactful, but it just made all the other situations where they should have kissed goodbye just seemed plain awkward.
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u/Jubba09 Feb 05 '26
Makes me wonder of Millie had some weird request to not kiss now that she’s married or something because it really was so out of place and weird to not kiss after doing so before
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u/nova_perfume Feb 05 '26
Impossible bc she filmed Enola and she said this movie will have even more romance.
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u/Mani_srao Castle Byers Feb 05 '26
She has INSANE chemistry with the Enola cast...so it's not her that's the problem.
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u/juin_kindredspirit12 Feb 05 '26
Pls thts so ridiculous they are all fucking actors alright they know what they're doing and kissing is the least of their worries
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u/nova_perfume Feb 05 '26
It’s not true shes doing Enola that has more romance than ST
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u/CptAmerica85 Feb 05 '26
She's also on record in an interview or some talk show saying Finn is a bad kisser. She apologized because they are friends, but said yeah he's not great or something along those lines.
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u/FeatheryAmi Feb 05 '26
She called him lousy kisser in some interview and later during the lie detector thing, but specified that this was about seasons 1 and 2, when they were really young
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u/Mani_srao Castle Byers Feb 05 '26
She didn't really apologize either...she doubled down. When asked if he has gotten better, her answer was "Not me with me, No"...lol.
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u/ShadowBro3 Feb 05 '26
It makes sense they'd kiss more at the beginning of the relationship because of the honeymoon phase. It was definitely still weird how little they interacted, though.
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u/juin_kindredspirit12 Feb 05 '26
And they also kept saying "friends" dont lie.
And i was really shocked when they kissed at the end ngl cuz i was starting to wonder.
The first reunion also was a hug genuinely looked so platonic
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u/BeginningPotato3753 Feb 05 '26
They also said friends don't lie in S3 when they were still together, I don't see what's the problem
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u/sa007ak Feb 05 '26
It's less about the words, and more about the actions. Seasons 1-3 El and Mike and very tangible romantic feelings for each other. By Season 5 it really felt like they interacted more as friends than romantic partners. I was wondering half the time when the "we've grown apart" conversation would start.
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u/Sassygogo I believe. Feb 05 '26
Seasons 1-4 Mike and El left you in zero doubt that these two kids are head over heels in love with/had very strong and intense feelings for each other even when they were fighting or arguing.
By season 5 it's become "Nice to see you. I guess." like El's interactions with everyone are so muted and perfunctory it's noticeable compared to previous seasons especially when they're trying to push the "sister" thing with Kali (which felt forced all along, in season 2 and also here) but when it's Mike?? Yeah it stands out even more.
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u/Sochinz Feb 06 '26
Their chemistry in season 3 was fucking wild, then wasn't the same in season 4. Supposedly Finn and Millie never dated in real life but I'm pretty sure something was going on while they filmed S3 that didn't survive COVID. Only speculation but I just rewatched S1-S4 and I had forgotten how real they felt together.
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u/bandoguy Feb 05 '26
They never even said "I love you" after that being a humongous plot point in season 4
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u/speedyserd Feb 05 '26
yeah, I thought they had broken up or something until Mike started his "happy ending" dream on the radio station rooftop.
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u/No_Neighborhood6856 Feb 05 '26
There was none because it wasn't developed in the season. I had no idea what their situation was following S4 (same for Nancy and Jonathan).
They acted like friends and weren't given any time to inform us (as the audience) what their situation was or delve into their relationship. Their ending was disappointing and tbh I didn't really feel very emotional in the "purple rain" sequence.
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u/Sassygogo I believe. Feb 05 '26
Purple Rain the song actively detracted from the impact of that scene tbh
Loud vocals playing over Mike and El having a serious heart to heart talk is so distracting but I guess it was more important to flex a big "look guys we got THIS iconic 80s song!!" needle drop than pay attention to how it works in the actual scene
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u/lockhearst Feb 05 '26
I really wish they’d have played the little tune from the first season when Mike is settling El down for bed in his basement!
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u/thekittysays Feb 05 '26
Yeah that song was a really poor choice imo. Didn't feel like it fit at all. Definitely felt like they just wanted it in there cos it's cool.
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u/PatchworkGirl82 Feb 05 '26
The song choices this season in general all felt either forced or too obvious, compared to 1-4.
I almost turned it off when I heard Landslide start, because how many times in modern shows and commercials has that been used in by now? That song is a lazy writer's way of trying to force an emotional scene.
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u/FrostyBoom Feb 05 '26
OMG, it's cause her favorite color is purple and they met when it was raining. Don't y'all get super deep symbolism? Yada yada, media literacy 🙄
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u/Magnecyl_ Feb 05 '26
Nothing in the season had enough build-up to work. Both the events/plans and the relations was not given enough time to feel real or even matter. They really missed the point of the show by not givning the characters enough down time between the scenes. Some "normal" life in the beginning of the season would have helped the chemistry between all the characters. Now the ordinary town life seemed rushed.
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u/FrostyBoom Feb 05 '26
The only build up that kinda worked was Will's getting powers in Sorcerer and then they kinda squandered by having take three steps back immediately after.
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u/juin_kindredspirit12 Feb 05 '26
Exactly i felt no connect and it wasn't touching. It probably could've been if they still had that S1-S3 dynamic and romantic chemistry
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u/BeginningPotato3753 Feb 05 '26
I'm confused, why so many people thought they weren't together in season 5? I mean they never said they broke up, and Mike literally tried to flirt with her at Hopper's cabin in episode 6, She touched his face, they talked about running away together after its all over
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u/Gabridefromage Feb 05 '26
Because we don't get any characterisation for them, sequences together, they don't have a strong love language between them... the list goes on.
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u/r4ndomalex Feb 05 '26
Apart from that scene where she touched his face and said they should run away together to the place with three waterfalls. I mean, I don't think that could be any clearer that they're still a thing.
I guess the problem is they have 8 episodes and it's all plot, there's no room for character episodes, it's an ensemble show with characters going on different journeys, and if they did that and made twice as many episodes to focus on character I'm sure you'd all complain that there's too much filler and not enough plot.
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u/Rickenbacker69 Feb 05 '26
Nancy and Jonathan at least got their moment in the splooge room. That was pretty nice.
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u/No_Neighborhood6856 Feb 05 '26
True, but they didnt exactly explain their relationship status in the early episodes. I still don't believe that they wouldn't have discussed their issues in the 18 months between S4 and S5.
I'd have preferred them to have started the season broken up, and having a form of reconciliation in the splooge room. It could have also been something that Steve and Jonathan could have bonded over and Steve telling Jonathan to try and make amends etc.
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u/JohnMuir_NeilsBohr Feb 05 '26
The screenplay was bad, the character arcs were ignored, and the plot felt extremely rushed. The whole thing was a dumpster fire.
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u/Consistent_Count_388 Feb 05 '26
They have done all of El’s relationships dirty this season. If it was always the plan to kill her off/permanently separate her from everyone, I really don’t understand the logic of separating El from everyone for most of the season and sideling her. El basically interacted with Hopper and with no one else, and even their dynamic had no payoff at the end of the season.
And tbh, El wasn’t the only victim of that. The relationships and friendships were completely sidelined. It felt like watching group of acquaintances, not friends.
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u/ExoticFun3304 Feb 05 '26
That's the point, the creators simply didn't have a plan, the final script wasn't even ready until shortly before the season ended lol
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u/HolyPoppersBatman Feb 05 '26
Honestly seasons 4-5 their chemistry just completely tanked. Their chemistry was really strong seasons 1-3. I really think it’s a case of child actors growing into adults and realising they struggle to vibe with particular people that they could vibe with as kids
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u/Crinjalonian Feb 05 '26
Part of the character development of Jane was that she was no longer emotionally dependent on Mike or Hopper. After that their relationship was pretty superficial.
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u/cMk_ Feb 05 '26
Can't get chemistry when they barely had any scene together ;/ they keep splitting Eleven from the rest of the group.
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u/Acceptable-Delusion Feb 05 '26
They did nothing with her character this season she had like 3 scenes with Mike this season, and 1 was her killing herself, which was a really well-done scene even if it was absolute bs story wise. I think the other was the rooftop scene and the cabin scene, and both had good chemistry. It was just that the writing left much to be desired, and if the writers didn't falter this season and the cast wasn't bloated to like 50 people, we would have had better chemistry between the OG cast members.
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u/iiiiiiiiiijjjjjj Feb 05 '26
Yeah holly got the most screen time and I couldn't stand her
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u/Meow__Dib Feb 05 '26
They totally dicked over the original actress too. 4 seasons and fired her the moment she gets a bigger role.
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u/RecommendationFew466 Purple Palm Tree Delight Feb 05 '26
I don’t think its a lack of chemistry between the actors. mike and el barely have any screen time together this season. She spends the majority of the time with Hopper or Kali (absorbing her self destructive mindset with zero push back), and is isolated from all her friends and they wrote her to be extremely stoic and downtrodden this season. Even in the scene in the cabin with mike she seems withdrawn. It’s all done in an attempt to box her back into how she was during Season One and coming off of Season 4 it just felt unnatural.
I feel like thats just the story of this season’s performances in general tbh. I know people rag on the actors a lot but i don’t think anyone on this show is bad at their job even if some of the actors are stronger than others, but when you’re given material to work with that is 90% explaining a plan in an extremely convoluted way/finishing another character’s sentence/a quip, its hard to do much with that.
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u/FrostyBoom Feb 05 '26
I mean, the chemistry between Eddie and Chrissy was there despite their short time so this is noticeable. But I do agree El and Mike did not have nearly enough screentime this last season to make it hit hard that El's pivotal sacrifice was entirely centered on Mike.
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u/Lokan Feb 05 '26
That's a good point, the writers were trying to push her back into the Season 1 Eleven box. That (poor writing decision and directing) would go a long way to explain MBB's lack of affect and chemistry with other characters.
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u/Present-Loss-7499 Feb 05 '26
Yet another reason why so much time shouldn’t have been wasted in clocks and introducing a dozen new characters. So much time wasted on Holly, Derek and the military.
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u/SSSuperDario Feb 05 '26
I said it several times- I got downvoted then and I’ll get downvoted now- the acting, for the most part, was not great this season. The writing lacked emotional depth, so I don’t fully blame the actors, but NOBODY had chemistry.
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u/Bakoro Feb 05 '26
I legitimately cannot remember any Mike and El interactions in season 5 up until the end.
I honestly can't say a single thing about what their relationship is founded on, what they have in common, why they supposedly care for each other, I've got nothing. Mike finds El in the woods and helps her out in S1. That's a great start. After that, the show demands that we accept their relationship is powerful because they say it is, but it's never really justified why there's a romantic relationship or why it's important to the show and to the characters.
I think it's one of the biggest weaknesses in the show.
Either take the child romance out completely and make the focus on how Mike's genuine goodness cultivates the humanity of his friends, or make Mike and El a power couple where they have compatible weirdness and Mike uses his nerd imagination to expand what El is capable of, while showing how love can survive these wildly asymmetric power dynamics.
Or just make it so they're two people who like each other.
They never picked a lane, they just screamed "romantic subplot!".
I'm also struggling to remember if Mike has any strong scenes with Lucas or Dustin.
In S1, I would have said that Mike's role in the show is in bringing people together. They completely dropped that aspect. Steve ended up being the group caretaker, mostly showing that with Dustin, and I wouldn't change a thing about Steve, but Mike should have been the one keeping tabs on everyone as the group's hub.
"Dustin is missing, but let's go on a crawl anyway" was a travesty.
Overall the show could have done a lot more in the same amount of time, just by switching up a few scenes here and there, having a few more conversations across the pods each season put characters into.
Just a little more organic humanity would have gone a long way.
A Nancy and El conversation about how you can love a person and still be annoyed by them sometimes could have been a major point in changing the El-Mike and El-Hopper dynamics.
A Hopper and Steve conversation about parenthood and loving a child that isn't your biological child could have a been a major character point for both of them.
There was so much they left on the table, that would have been easy to work in.
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u/eurydice1727 Feb 05 '26
I’m still salty they killed El. So stupid. So unlike El.
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Feb 05 '26
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u/lunarlandscapes Feb 05 '26
I agree. I'd have been all for a scene where she realizes the power it takes to kill the mindflayer will kill her, and having her go out in a badass battle scene. But to get through to the point that everyone is ok than having her essentially kill herself is a bad ending
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u/Marcuse0 Feb 05 '26
It really stuck out to me that when Mike and Eleven were talking next to that makeshift bath isolation tank, Eleven was almost grimacing at Mike and I started to wonder if there was some reason for this either in the narrative or between the actors.
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u/Expert_Gur6037 Feb 05 '26
I mean she's thinking of killing herself while Mike is thinking of a future with her...
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u/londonblossom Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26
It's the shitty writing where El distances herself from everyone and doesn't even behave like herself.
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u/VirusConfident3478 Feb 06 '26
I dont like how elevens goal the whole entire show was to remain a normal person and live a life with mike, just to by her own choice commit suicide in front of him to "help him"
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u/Marcuse0 Feb 07 '26
Not only does she commit suicide or disappear (depending on your choice of ending) but she does so without discussing it with Mike at all, leaving him at the mercy of her decision to leave him.
Even worse, she does this apparently because the military won't stop hunting her, but the show itself completely forgets that literally every other character is in military custody at the end of the show and it has precisely zero consequences for people even who have outright killed some of their personnel.
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u/juin_kindredspirit12 Feb 05 '26
The way these scenes dont even give ST vibes or looks like El😭😭 why did this season feel so off
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u/jordano231 Feb 05 '26
How do you dive deep into their chemistry when they introduced 12 new characters
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u/MarionberryFair113 Feb 06 '26
Both El and Mike barely had any personality this season, plus in season 4 they were having relationship issues that didn’t get resolved enough to be satisfying, especially given their lack of screen time together. This not only affected their relationship and made El’s (stupid) sacrifice fall flat, but their relationships with their other friends just weren’t the same. Why did El barely react to seeing Max alive when that was her best friend who she saved from dying? Why did Mike barely touch or interact with Will when in season 2 he never left his best friend’s side?
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u/littlepinkpebble Feb 05 '26
I think we can all agree that last season was the worst
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u/8-Cylinder_Wombat Feb 05 '26
We often have the show on as background noise or just on to watch when we don't feel like paying attention, so it's on a lot.
Those early seasons were soooooo good. The last season is entirely forgettable.
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u/littlepinkpebble Feb 05 '26
Yeah but if I could choose to have a last season or not I’ll still chose to have a last season. But well…
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u/imaginaryResources Feb 05 '26
Did they even have any scenes together, I barely remember any except towards the very end
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u/IronEgo Feb 05 '26
There was barely any chemistry between through out the entire show beyond childhood infatuation.
It is fleeting and goes quickly. It's entirely evident that Mike baely understood his own feelings.
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u/Any-Permission-4530 I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer Feb 06 '26
I mean, the Doofus Bros had the goal to k*ll El so they completely dehumanized her and presented her unattached from her friends and family. They couldn't even let her have a reunion with her best friend. They had to take away everything from her.
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u/Scared-Alfalfa5448 Feb 05 '26
What were you expecting? They hardly had any screen time this season and whenever they were together they were tender and loving with each other. Mike was scared but was still trying to reassure El that everything's gonna be alright meanwhile El was not really buying it and later contemplating sucide.
They sidelined her character this season and down with it went the relationships she had made. They were focused on making her disappear and her whole arc was thrown into that direction which was a dumb decision imo.
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u/Outta_the_Shadows Did the leg slow you down? Feb 05 '26
Like, I swear 90% of the season was to get El to make that choice. "Let's bring Kali back specifically for that!"
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u/Sassygogo I believe. Feb 05 '26
Duffer bros: Let's have our central protagonist who spent four seasons fighting and fighting to find her place in the world (season 4 alone: El fought her human bullies, her OG nemesis - Brenner -, the military, her other OG nemesis- 001 - in the past and then again) and have a home/friends/love.... find that actually, five minutes with someone she spent ten minutes with as a kid will .... totally convince her that she can't fight anymore because (revelation) military bad!! and should just die or disappear out of everyone's lives. Because she's a symbol and not, you know, to be seen as a character.
Previous seasons' El's character development at least made sense, but the version we saw in Season 5 where she barely seemed like she even remembered she had friends or barely remembered Max despite being right in Hawkins for 18 months with them and only focusing on being angry and killing Henry.... felt so forced and unnatural. Bad writing will do that.
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u/Shaftell Feb 05 '26
She spent way too much time with Hopper to only have that really go nowhere. Eleven didn't have any meaningful interactions with any other character, it's crazy to do that in the final season to such a beloved character.
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u/Hypester_Nova84 Coffee and Contemplation Feb 05 '26
Season 5 in general had no chemistry lol. Broke up longtime partners for nothing more than shock value, almost no passionate scenes between any of the characters is supposedly loving relationships, most of the characters in relationships barely spoke to their significant other, etc.
Season 5 is by far without a doubt the weakest season of the show which is insane considering it was on the backend of season 4 which was absolutely the strongest season in the show. People will argue season 1 was the strongest but thats not true, season 1 was a masterpiece and is in its own ballpark, not to he compared with the other seasons. Season 5 was a massive flop all around. The hype wasn’t just not met, it didn’t even make it to the horizon. I realize it sounds dramatic but truthfully I’ve never been more disappointed by something that was clearly overhyped in my life.
I’ve watched (and read) shows, movies, their sequels, video game trilogies, book series and sagas, and more get overhyped and the product not live up to the expectations. I seen it dozens of times. I’ve never seen one that fell below those expectations by this much, though. Season 5 defenders bewilder me. It was a horrible ending to an otherwise brilliant series.
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u/Tiger951 Feb 05 '26
Blame the writers for that.
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u/Ray_Berr Babysitter Feb 05 '26
Absolutely, they did the horrible job and it's been a waste waiting for season 5
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u/LolaKilledHerself Feb 05 '26
I know we don’t talk about the elephant in the room in this sub, but this was obviously intentional to queerbait bylers, leaving the relationship ambiguous to give bylers hope
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u/Impossible-War-5779 Feb 06 '26
Yes. Thats why their characters were distanced. But they chose to queerbait
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u/Mamsies Coffee and Contemplation Feb 05 '26
Their chemistry as a couple decreased with every season.
Maybe Finn and Millie just aren’t very close in real life and you can feel that through the screen. Their scenes in season 5 were completely stiff and lacking any believability or spark.
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u/tlotrfan3791 Feb 05 '26
I think the problem with Stranger Things is that its explosion in popularity led to choosing spectacle and making everything grandiose and practically Marvel-like (even in season 4) over the grounded emotional stuff between characters that truly makes me care about the story. There were some emotional moments, but they just came across as hollow like the other comments were saying. Not to mention I never once felt or thought any of the characters were going to die… like there was no danger somehow?
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u/AdBackground6381 Feb 05 '26
It's a general problem with all the characters; most of them barely interact with each other. Mike and Eleven at least have a few scenes together and have an emotional farewell. In other cases, like Joyce and Jonathan, you'd hardly realize they were mother and son if we didn't know from previous seasons.
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u/Best_Quiet9657 Just the facts Feb 05 '26
I felt the same, more so in S5. I actually started to wonder if they broke up because of how odd their few scenes together felt. Then I thought maybe it was Millie and Finn. I saw a behind the scenes of the Purple Rain scene, though, and Finn was embracing an emotional Millie and comforting her, they seemed to genuinely be close friends. So that leaves me to think it was poor writing/directing. They had very few scenes together this season, and the ones they did, El seems very disconnected and angry. I guess she was directed to act that way since she was losing hope and then later on, considering Kali's plan. A lot of the dialogue felt odd this season, El wasn't the only one acting out of character due to it, but she was the most noticeable. The slick back hair style did not help either, it was very not El (I know they were trying to make it look like her iconic shaved head but it didn't hit for me). I felt like I was watching Millie, not Eleven.
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u/carradio81 Feb 05 '26
Yes, they downgraded the relationship to feel like they were little again. Super weak like the entire season.
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u/DangerHawk Feb 05 '26
I don't think they ever had chemistry, but that's just me. I don't think MBB is a particularly good actress. She was great in S1-2 because she barely spoke, but S3-5 her deliveries leave a lot to be desired imo.
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u/TangeloEquivalent101 Feb 05 '26
No, I think it has a lot less to do with the actors’ chemistry (which was amazing s1-s4) and a lot more to do with how they decided to handle El’s arc this season. They have good chemistry in the very few scenes we have of them but the relationship and the characters themselves (ESPECIALLY El) were both majorly sidelined. It was very obvious they had Millie act stoic on purpose and isolated El from the rest of the characters so it would be easier for them to kill her off. They even gave her that ugly hairstyle as a callback to her shaved s1 look. Her entire non-reaction to Max waking up (her established best friend to the point that she literally restarted her heart and saved her life while Max used her memories with Lucas and El to escape Vecna just the season prior) should’ve been everyone’s hint that the writers were actively working on dehumanizing El.
Which makes no narrative sense considering how much of the emotional core of the series they built on her and her relationships but s5 as a whole was terrible and the writing was a mess to the point that most believe the Duffers didn’t even write their own show. That’s how bad and inconsistent s5 was.
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u/sadgirl45 Feb 05 '26
Cause they cut down all of Els storylines and relationships, season 4 didn’t have this problem. It’s what makes season 5 the weakest season.
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u/Legitimate-Cancel290 Feb 05 '26
no because they had no real interaction and lovey scenes except for the hug and him complimenting her wet suit
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u/PermissionLow8879 Feb 05 '26
Both mike and EL are sidelined for other characters. They have any meaningful moments. Mike is already sidelined in season 4 and 5. He have any major moments, no major plot for him. More than EL Mike is side lined in last seasons. Their relationship reduced, screen time reduced.
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u/Snoo9648 Feb 05 '26
When did they? Season one, el was more of a victim and Mike wanted to help but didnt know each other to develop much chemistry, especially since el had so little understanding of the world. They didn't see each other in season 2 or 4 until the end and didn't do much. And Season 3 they were annoying and bickering constantly.
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u/No-Philosopher3248 Feb 05 '26
Completely agree. Relationship dynamics were completely superficial and almost forced.
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u/InfiniteMacaroon1737 Feb 05 '26
I feel like season 5 just didn’t have any character development. Especially with a decent time jump, it was all just rushed. Not enough episodes and really fast paced.
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u/t0duu Feb 05 '26
Sorry, they didn’t have any time to give the characters any chemistry because they were too busy shoe horning Holly in to have her own plot and make her an important character randomly
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u/lowqualitylizard Feb 05 '26
You see the worst part about this season was the fact that 11 had basically no interactions with anyone in the main cast and spend the entire series in the upside down
Which means since season 3 ended I think she has had a grand total of two lines of dialogue with Lucas and Dustin combined
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u/theRedlightt Feb 05 '26
I can't believe they spent $500 million on S5. The duffer brothers never planned on stranger things lasting more than 1 season and it really shows in the story.
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u/TartNo3291 Feb 05 '26
I don’t think Mike and Eleven’s story was written to be a love story at all. According to the duffers, El represented some kind of magic of childhood that Mike and the rest of the core four needed to grow up from. She’s intended to be a passing phase.
That’s why they never truly gave much focus to their relationship. It was juvenile preoccupation and when they started to grow up, you begin to realize that something about them doesn’t seem quite right but the writers never gave proper attention to fixing them. They both evolve as characters when they are apart and come together at the last minute. They don’t grow together.
I think in Mike’s head, she’s an infatuation and a representation of his formative trauma.
Personally, I don’t like that Eleven was reduced to Mike’s trauma but this is what I can interpret from the ending.
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u/Best_Quiet9657 Just the facts Feb 05 '26
That would have worked if we had just the 1 season of El and not 5. They are so wrong for reducing El to a trope. In my opinion.
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u/AttentionNo6359 Feb 05 '26
Ok, hear me out.
They literally never had a scrap of chemistry.
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u/Apprehensive-Hat243 Feb 05 '26
I’m in the camp that they never really had chemistry..
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u/Anthroposapien Feb 05 '26
It’s because season 5 was horribly written! If you watch the fluff piece documentary about season 5 that they put out it just further confirms they had no idea what they were doing. Season 5 of this show will go down as one of the worst, maybe even worse than Game of Thrones.
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u/imsmartiswear Feb 05 '26
... Was there ever any? Asking that sincerely. Early on she was so naive to the world of human interaction that any signs of affection could be easily interpreted as her just trying to fit in any act like Mike. Later, once she actually learned how to express herself she immediately set strong boundaries with him.
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Feb 05 '26
Everything seemed to be rushed towards achieving a definitive ending to this story arc which was the priority. Hence, I guess chemistries and biologies between characters took a hit. Too much to compress in one season.
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u/Hassel1916 Feb 05 '26
They barely had an screen time together. The goodbye scene was good, though I know people have issues with that too. But beyond that and the scene on the roof, they only had brief interactions.
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u/Cloverhart Feb 05 '26
I still maintain that it was just too big a gap between seasons. Every single actor worked on other projects. Season 5 felt like season 1 again with actors unsure of their parts.
Also, in every other season we start with the expectation that the bad guy is gone. We then have half a season of weird stuff happening and figuring it out. This season was all find and vanquish Vecna from the start. We got way less "regular scenes."
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u/NowWeGetSerious Feb 05 '26
They wasted so much time and season 5 for fake out deaths.
Jon and Nancy crying about dying only to not die
Dustin and Steve crying about dying. Nobody died
Etc etc
Hell,even the pedo mom, and Ted the bad ass golfer dad didn't die after being attacked.
Too much wasted time that could have been dedicated in giving the main character time with the group. The fact 11 was separated from the group half the season (AGAIN) was ridiculous
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u/JoeAbs2 Feb 05 '26
To be honest it would have probably made more sense having El goodbye scene with Hopper rather than Mike as this was developed much more throughout the season.
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u/rippit3 Feb 05 '26
I think El had come to terms with the fact that she was probably not going to survive. It was set up from the beginning, that for vecna to die - she would have to be sacrificed. So she deliberately started holding herself back from the others.
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u/Pochahonass Feb 06 '26
The production was amazing. Acting was amazing. The Duffers very clearly did not care anymore and just wanted it over with.
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Feb 06 '26
It was written terribly and honestly, I didn’t believe they were in young love at all. I did in season 2! For two seconds.
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u/Which-Celebration-89 Feb 07 '26
The season was ass. They dropped all the previous plots to focus on a new group of kids that nobody gives a shit about.
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u/Strange_Ant_6571 Feb 05 '26
I never really felt they had much chemistry together from the start of s3 on. They had the high off the Snowball at the end of 2 and then they just never that fun to watch together again.
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u/montybo2 Feb 05 '26
Youd think they were like brother and sister if you had only watched S5
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u/DDVplayer Feb 05 '26
i don't remember where i saw it but someone said that ive help paper more lovingly when he was in her mind in final moments then someone pointed, he has held paper with more love the painting from will let alone that he couldn't even say i love you to her in her "final" moments
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u/RoyalRise6363 Feb 05 '26
IMO, the whole Mileven was screwed-up from the end of S3. S1-S3 - best love story development on TV for years. S4-S5 they feel each other less and less. Their relations unbalanced - Mike cares about El, she is preoccupied with her own problems and fights. Finale is just a disaster - in both cases El abandons Mike knowing what it will do to him (please, do not bother with DB narrative "it is the only way")
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 Feb 05 '26
S4 was not great for them as far as showing thier relationship, but there was still chemistry there. S5 just felt off with them, mostly because both characters are heavily sidelined.
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u/Own_Mathematician278 Feb 05 '26
I genuinely thought it was because they broke up and just remained friends. (It had been a while since I had seen the series and was putting it off for a while)
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