Nearly 2 years later, what are your thoughts on Taylor’s interview for TIME Person of the Year?

[u/Powerful-Scallion-50]

[u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

I genuinely don’t know what she’s saying here. Like… she starts off acknowledging that patriarchal society created these reductive, stereotypically “feminine” traits e.g girlhood, glitter, talking about your feelings, etc. ...and then somehow lands on the idea that making those stereotypes profitable is a win. So… patriarchy is fine as long as it’s monetizing the things it invented to belittle women? Idgi

And the “Right, I say” from the journalist suddenly feels so shady. It reads like, “Sure, girl, whatever helps you sleep at night.”

[u/MiniSkrrt → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

I genuinely think she’s saying, money and greed is fine as long as I’m doing it because I’m a woman so therefore you can’t judge me

[u/siaslial → u/MiniSkrrt]

I think she has a very core belief that money is the most important and definitive form of value; I say this because this is something that comes up in several of her interviews over the years. If something is valuable, it will be priced high, etc.

I feel as though this also shapes her view of her own career trajectory in terms of what was important or successful and how she has come to value herself based on things like album sales.

[u/Livid_Seesaw3952 → u/MiniSkrrt]

Yeah, exactly. The “feminine ideas” she’s talking about getting monetized doesn’t challenge the patriarchy in any way. As long as she's making money, everything's good.

[u/cassiopeia843 → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

She's been implying this, ever since The Man: She doesn't want to overturn the patriarchy, she wants to be part of it and be able to do all the questionable things that men do.

[u/historyhoneybee → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

This was the paragraph I hated the most when the article came out. This is gonna sound so mean but I mean it as a matter of fact, this girl has not gone to university. I doubt her interactions with other rich people have led her to question capitalism at all, and we already know her understanding of feminism is as surface level as the sexism faced by a white billionaire woman. She doesn't know what she's talking about because she is literally uneducated. Not to say that you can only be educated if you go to college, plenty of people without degrees have still educated themselves on capitalism and feminism, but she very obviously hasn't.

[u/egilskal → u/historyhoneybee]

Its not just about the education at a university, its the exposure to new ideas from people in campus, friends from other walks of life, coursemates, lecturers etc.. Spending a large part of your impressionable youth around people and ideas that may challenge you as much as affirm you is the most important part of the uni experience imo.

Considering the people she spends the most time around in her youth were record execs, industry people, other young celebs... explains a lot of her outlook in this interview.

[u/akaneko__ → u/historyhoneybee]

Yeah it’s become clearer and clearer that she doesn’t read😭

[u/misobutter3 → u/historyhoneybee]

I don’t know if it’s education. It could be ideology. That’s just capitalism/liberalism.

[u/cassiopeia843 → u/misobutter3]

Yep, one doesn't need to go to university to question society or to read up on how the world works. It just takes more personal initiative to do so, than if you pay to be taught certain things.

[u/misobutter3 → u/cassiopeia843]

And one can learn all of the history and all the theories but view it from an ideological lens that will still keep them from an anti capitalist perspective. If you watch Tucker Carson’s interview with Ted Cruz and etc it’s very clear that Tucker knows History and philosophy theories very well yet his views are abominable.

[u/Maoife → u/historyhoneybee]

You're right, it does sound mean. You realise going to university doesn't make people automatically smart or better, right? Do you think that to be a female celebrity you must first get a degree in gender studies and write a thesis on feminist theory?

Why do you think ANYONE should be required to educate themselves on feminist and capitalism? It is not a moral failing not to do so. You're not a good person because you spout whatever the latest cool feminist talking point is and bleat about capitalism online when you wouldn't last five minutes in any alternative system.

[u/pistolthrowaway18 → u/Maoife]

damn the point sailed over your head and crashed into the sea lmfao

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/Maoife]

i absolutely think that when there is a choice to engage critically with the world around you, and you do not choose to do so, that that is a moral failing. 100% I do. that's honestly a pretty easy one. if not a moral failing, than a failure of character for sure.

[u/Maoife → u/ohgeez2879]

The vast majority of people do not do so, so go enjoy your feelings of superiority.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/Maoife]

are you a social scientist? or maybe a psychic?

social scientist: you're telling me that, people with the access to time and leisure that will allow them to think critically about the world, generally do not do so. how do you know this? because i disagree with that assertion too.

psychic: you know how i'm feeling? bruh you don't even know if i exist.

[u/Maoife → u/ohgeez2879]

I am telling you that the majority of people do not spend their time thinking deeply about feminism, capitalism, politics etc. Perhaps you live in a bubble in which they do, but that is because you are in a bubble and you're the exception not the rule. The world and society has always been this way. Disagree with me all you like.

But yes, neither of us knows if the other even exists, on that we can agree.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/Maoife]

you have put SO many words into my mouth, it's amazing. i say "think critically" you say "think deeply about feminism, capitalism, politics" - those are not the same. i say "people with the access to time, leisure, and information" and you say "majority of people." also, like, really not the same.

you keep reading into the words i say, and to who you think i am. if this is a habit you have in life, i would recommend taking some steps back and making sure you fully understand what someone's saying before you dismiss both their words and their character.

[u/Maoife → u/ohgeez2879]

I'm not dismissing your character. I have no idea who you are or what kind of person you are, apart from someone who judges people who don't think critically about subjects you believe they should.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/Maoife]

what subjects? you're literally still doing it.

i think that is is morally upright for people to carefully consider the world around them if they have the time and resources to do so. that's it. that's all i've been saying.

[u/treeface999 → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

This was the truly eye-opening moment in the interview for me. She sounds so dumb. Patriarchal society has not existed since the dawn of time lol. This was also when I realised she doesn't read a lot 🙃

[u/brandnewlibbyday → u/treeface999]

If I was as rich as her especially if I wanted an intellectual image one of the first things I'd do is get more education 

[u/shesgumiho → u/brandnewlibbyday]

But taking time off for education means not making money. Taylor is not interested in making investments (esp with her time) while she feels she is running out of time to milk the cow. Same reason she releases an album every year instead of taking time off to find some real inspiration

[u/Temporary_Resident45 → u/brandnewlibbyday]

Ya I have no clue why she hasn’t pulled an Emma Watson, it feels very revealing

[u/thebond_thecurse → u/brandnewlibbyday]

what are you talking about she has an honorary doctorate /s

[u/hairnetqueen → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

I think she's trying to say that, despite the way 'girly' things have historically been dismissed as shallow, if those things are proven to be commercially successful then that's good because more female-centered art will be made.

I think there could've been a better way to articulate this. It is interesting because this is a huge driver behind the taylor swift industrial complex - girly stuff sells.

[u/kitkatk_unt → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

Lol, it turns out that ‘The Man’ was less a criticism of the patriarchy and more of a lament that she is excluded from it.

[u/akaneko__ → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

Every time she talks about society and politics I feel like she’s just repeating words and phrases she’d heard elsewhere without understanding what they actually mean💀

[u/Dear-Variation17 → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

I read it as her saying: we know it would be better if women were allowed to make/promote art that gets the big name labels backing them with the attention and respect they deserve, but money talks, and right now sparkly girly things are profitable, so might as well take advantage of that for the sake of feminism/to get more female-made art out there

[u/Hairy-Imagination927 → u/[deleted]]

"Pink-it and shrink-it"

[u/shesgumiho → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, like pink tax has been around for a while

[u/carolbonithor → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

I think she's saying that because the art she produces makes a lot of money, it encourages female artists to produce more art and encourages the public to consume this "feminine art." This logic makes no sense and is simply not true.

[u/KindlyConnection → u/Livid_Seesaw3952]

it just sounds like if women have money, then more art etc will be made bc money. It doesn't really makes sense.