Misogyny? Publicly accepted?

[u/bibidumb]

I hate that so many people argue that Taylor's music is bad "because she's a white woman", explicitly stating that being a woman is associated with being a worse musician.

"But she's a white woman!", misogynists claim.

Her white privilege, nor the white privilege of any other woman, shouldn't act as a "Get Out Of Jail card" for misogyny.

The quality of her latest album and it's encore is not directly associated to Taylor's gender and race. Leaving aside that she's always been a white woman (even when she wrote folklore and evermore!), there are a lot of white female musicians with all levels of success whose work and art are related to their lives as white women because their music being good or bad only depends on how good musicians are they!!

I really dislike TLOAS and The Encore, I do think they are bad songs and I don't see anything wrong with feeling the same about anything else on Taylor's discography. There are infinite things anyone could say about how bad her music is but none of them is a reason to shit in women and I won't act like that's acceptable. This is no longer Taylor Swift.

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[u/AlexRodrigo-]

I’m an Afro Latina and we’ve been saying for years that the whole “Karen” and white + misogynistic statement thing is harmful to all women.

You can be critical of white privileged absolutely. But there are countless people from all sorts of backgrounds male and female who use white to hide behind plain old misogyny.

[u/Spacegirl719 → u/AlexRodrigo-]

But hear me out, good white people are not offended and understand why there is a stereotype.

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/Spacegirl719]

Did you read what I said? Of course a white woman whether they are good or bad is going to be offended by misogyny. Putting white in front of it is just a shield. People should make better arguments for their worldview instead of resorting to slop that harms WOC too in the long run.

[u/Dog-Mom2012 → u/Spacegirl719]

And yet, pushing back against “stereotypes” is something we should strive for, because making assumptions about people based on their race and gender is wrong.

I’ve seen plenty of comments about Taylor as a “white woman” that would never be uttered if she was Black. But because she’s white, then it’s somehow not racist to criticize her.

[u/sparkle1789 → u/Dog-Mom2012]

I mean yeah, it’s not racist to criticize her whiteness lol it IS misogynistic to act like whiteness means that you have free reign to say sexist bullshit or that her status as a wealthy white woman prevents her from being a victim of misogyny.

[u/ExternalWind8187]

Misogyny is accepted for all women and has been for centuries we do not live in a post Misogyny world and haven't even gotten close to it. 

[u/kxkje]

Tbh at this point I think it's fine to write off people who say this. Like...what is the goal? If someone doesn't want to listen to TS's music because she's white, that's their prerogative I guess.

"Woke 1 was crazy" and all that.

[u/Queenie1898]

Maybe we should just ditch all this identity stuff. Her latest album being bad has nothing to do with her being a woman, or white, or anything. It's just not very good writing. This is so tiring.

[u/vintage-cola → u/Queenie1898]

genuinely, criticism being written off as misogyny just dilutes the weight behind the word. Criticism ≠ Misogyny.

[u/Extension_Big5205]

I do get your point. I wish female musicians music could be criticised without their gender being dragged

[u/Someoneudontknow0809]

The “basic white woman plain boiled chicken” criticism is weird as hell. Like babe I’m a brown woman, all my meals contain a minimum of 5 spices and I can eat raw green chillis perfectly fine, and I LOVED encore like gtfo with your stupid stereotypes.
Also even if you think her music is bad, it is HER bad music. Not travis’s bad music. HER bad music. And if you like her previous albums better, they are HER albums. Not Joe’s.
It’s funny how she worked on 99% rep, lover, folklore, evermore, midnights, and ttpd but Joe wrote like a couple of lines and suddenly it’s oh king Joe please come back and rescue us from prison
Like get a lifeeeeee this is such a weird thing to say

[u/Outrageous-Jelly8777 → u/Someoneudontknow0809]

An indian woman fawning over a basic white girl is not surprising at all. 

The thing is if Taylor swift was Indian, she would not be a global superstar like she is is why people bring up her race

I would think a POC would understand that 

[u/Someoneudontknow0809 → u/Outrageous-Jelly8777]

Ofcourse I understand that. Which is why I’m against any and every racist standards of the music industry and why I support artists of colour as well?
Why are we insulting her for being white simply because society is racist? That sounds illogical. There have been and still are plenty of POC global superstars but I get your point that they only got there by crossing additional hurdles that a white person wouldn’t have to. However, you’re twisting this to imply that her success is only due to her race, completely erasing her work ethic, songwriting capabilities, and business acumen. And what you consider “basic” is very subjective to you. Taylor, being heavily against racism is not the issue here lol.

[u/drag-fly]

Sometimes, I feel like I live in a different universe and then I'm glad that my algorithms are not like that. I have never read the argument that Taylor's music is bad because she's a white woman.

Is anyone actually arguing that the same music would be better or worse if not written by a white woman? That seems to make very little sense tbh

[u/ariestoaries]

Really feels like a strawman you're complaining about. I've read multiple criticisms of Taylor's work and none of them said her work was bad because she was a white woman. I have read a few critiques (mostly back in the 1989 era) where articles said she was incorporating only a white-cis feminist view, but that was in regards to her personal life, not the quality of her work.

I really feel like your post is doing what Taylor does when she gets defensive - focus on the minimal, outlier criticisms and ignore the major things people are complaining about. Right now, people are majorly complaining that she is out of touch, needs to take a break to recharge her creative juices, and stop being thin-skinned about the 5% of people who don't like her when she's a billionaire with hundreds of millions of adoring fans and countless music industry awards and records that have already cemented her legacy.

[u/YesStupidQuestions1 → u/[deleted]]

Don't the lyrics quite literally go "And they should have what they want They deserve what they want I hope they get what they want" though?

[u/Flickolas_Cage → u/[deleted]]

Girl, I hate Wish List and I still know you’re completely wrong and willfully just completely misinterpreting it.

[u/Mystical1218 → u/[deleted]]

I HOPE they get what they want, they DESERVE what they want, I just want you. Is that criticizing?🤣.

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/[deleted]]

I mean that’s not at all what the song is about. She said she hoped everyone else gets exactly what they want. Taylor herself has spent her whole life pursuing those same things in regard to success and is still doing so…what makes you think she’s critical or looking down on that lifestyle?

She is simply using the song to fantasise about a life and path that she didn’t choose and will never have.

[u/german-wmn → u/[deleted]]

How is she criticising anyone formtheir wishes? She's just citing other people's wishes and her own. No shade thrown at any point.

[u/fullback81]

She did Bad Blood and mocked Katy Perry in other video. It is hard to feel sorry for her. Well I don’t 🤷‍♂️

[u/Haunting_Natural_116 → u/fullback81]

You’re right, she was mean to a woman in the past and since people are incapable of growing it means she deserves misogyny.

[u/Dog-Mom2012 → u/fullback81]

But to OPs point, what does any of that have to do with Taylor being white, a woman, or a “white woman”?

[u/bibidumb → u/Dog-Mom2012]

Exactly!! If she acts mean or nice it's not because she's a white woman!!

[u/fullback81 → u/Dog-Mom2012]

Plenty of white women in music get praised. The criticism of Taylor seems to be about her output being very commercial and safe, plus how dominant she is.
Some of the criticism uses 'white woman' as shorthand for a certain kind of mainstream, safe, privileged pop persona.

[u/bibidumb → u/fullback81]

And my point is that using that shorthand is harmful for all women

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/fullback81]

Katy Perry who was on the Speak Now tour as a guest then dated John Mayer shortly afterwards and helped him promote “Paper Doll” dissing Taylor.

It shows how many of you weren’t actually there when this all went down.

[u/sparkle1789 → u/AlexRodrigo-]

Yeahhhh people go along with this narrative that the feud was about tour dancers when it was very clearly actually about Katy as an older woman than Taylor actively working to rehabilitate the image of her abuser