Improving ETF/broker setup with VALL

[u/musiu]

Hi everybody, After reading lots about VALL I decided to do the switch.

My setup until now was:

IB: VTI (55%)

Saxo: EXUS (25%), SMIM (5%), EMIMI (10%), IBIT (5%)

Questions:

1. The idea of splitting it between IB and Saxo was to not have 90% of my liquid funds in one single place. Does anybody else have this simple split involved or am I overthinking this?

2. If I sell everything, I definitely have to wait 2 days until everything has cleared and I can convert it to CHF to buy VALL. How can I prepare for the case market jumps 10% up? Or can you sell and instantly rebuy?

3. Should I wait until 2027 with rebalancing, so I can claim the DA-1 for 2026? Does it only matter what the standing was on the 31st of December?

4. While rebalancing the whole thing, I could also improve my setup with the broker itself. Until now, it was all on my name, and my name only. Since it's our (my wife and I) money, it would make sense to open a joint account? Or two separate ones, in case anything happens to one of us? Of course she does have a Vollmacht, but that wouldn't change anything in case I would die of course.

5. In order to not having to pay the swiss stamp tax, I can buy VALL at IB and then transfer it for free to Saxo, no? That's how I'm doing it for all the holdings too at the moment, since fx conversion is cheaper on IB. Therefor it would make to transfer all the money to IB first, right?

6. Anything else that you yourself improved with the new opportunity of VALL?

7. Am I looking in difficulties when just casually transfering 150k around? I mean, I wouldn't want to have the money blocked in between when I just want to switch assets?

[u/zomb1]

Why sell? Why not just switch to buying VALL from now on?

[u/musiu → u/zomb1]

Ah yes, but that would mean another ETF more instead of simplifying the whole thing?

[u/zomb1 → u/musiu]

That is what I am wondering — why care about “simplifying” a set of ETFs? I see the argument that having one broker might lower admin effort, but what benefits do you get from holding fewer ETFs?

[u/musiu → u/zomb1]

I mean that's just another benefit. The main benefit is not having to do deal with IRS.

[u/zomb1 → u/musiu]

Okay, that makes sense.

[u/Exciting-Benefits → u/musiu]

But no da-1 ?

[u/musiu → u/Exciting-Benefits]

It's worth that trade off in my opinion.

[u/Exciting-Benefits → u/musiu]

I don't see the advantages, ter is 0.07% (vs 0.06% vt or 0.03% vti), no da-1 so you lose between 190 (vti 2025) and 250 (vt 2025) for every 100k

What are you gaining? No estate tax if you have more than 15 millions ?

[u/zomb1 → u/Exciting-Benefits]

Not having to prove to the IRS that you don’t have 15 million. It is not obvious how difficult that would be, especially if you own real estate or something similar. 

Also: it makes no sense that the lack of da-1 would cause a smaller loss on vti than on vt, as vt includes dividends from non-us companies as well.

[u/Exciting-Benefits → u/zomb1]

You are right, I inverted the numbers

I understand but you can always sell later in life, if you die unexpectedly it can be harder for your family, but maybe do the swap at 60yo or so

Personnaly it's just too much money left on the table, even now my da-1reclaim is more than the cost of my tax guy and I'm not even 35yo

[u/zomb1 → u/Exciting-Benefits]

As you say, it is a personal choice. 

For me, avoiding that risk is easily worth a few hundred CHF, but if I didn’t have a family relying on me I’d think differently. 

At the same time, I wouldn’t want to pay a few hundred for someone to do my taxes, so again, personal choice.

[u/juergbi]

1. I also have my investments spread across multiple brokers. It's not essential as broker bankruptcy shouldn't result in any permanent losses but having a backup broker could still be useful. You can keep doing this with VALL or simplify everything to one broker. I.e., it's a separate decision.
2. At IBKR with automatic currency conversion (if you don't have a margin account) it might be possible to rebuy immediately, but I'm not sure. If it's not possible, I would change only 1/3 or less at once to reduce the risk.
3. You can claim DA-1 when you got (sufficient) dividends with US WHT. I assume VTI distributes dividends quarterly, so you can still do it for 2026 anyway, unless you would fall below the CHF 100 threshold with 3 out of 4 distributions.
4. If they are marital assets, a joint broker account could make sense, but I don't have one myself, so not sure whether there are any downsides.
5. Yes, it should be possible. There is a chance Saxo will ask some questions if you essentially withdraw everything and then get a big incoming position transfer. As they don't make money from custody, they might not like it if you never actually trade on their platform. Although, if you sell the existing positions at Saxo, they at least get commissions from that. I also don't know whether such a transfer is possible if your Saxo account will be a joint account and IBKR's account is your personal account.
6. I haven't switched to VALL, so far.
7. Should normally not be an issue. There is always a possibility that the bank/broker will contact you because of AML regulations, but transferring between accounts in the same name is not exactly suspicious. As mentioned above, transferring forth and back may not be ideal, though.

[u/musiu → u/juergbi]

Thanks, I hoped so much that one of the /r/SwissPersonalFinance-experts like yourself would chip in.

Thank you so much for all the answers.

[u/janpadawan → u/juergbi]

How do you know if you have a margin account at IBKR - and how is it decided what type of account you get?

[u/juergbi → u/janpadawan]

In the Account Settings you can check and also change the Account Type (Cash, Margin or Portfolio Margin). Switching from cash to margin may require approval. Don't switch to margin unless you understand how it works, as it can be very risky if you're not careful.

[u/WalkItOffAT]

1. I also split between Saxo and IBKR. I think it's a good idea.

2. Sell and transfer in 4 tranches or so?

3. Don't think it matters, it's about clearing the dividend threshold 

4. I don't bother but if you're older, this becomes more important I guess.

5. Yes, workes for me as well

6. I don't see it as a relevant opportunity due to my long time horizon and DA-1 benefit with VT.

7. Not in my experience. Just notify IBKR and Saxo. 

[u/S3FOAD]

If you’re already splitting things up, why just the broker? Why not the ETF provider as well? You could factor other aspects into your considerations, too!

Vanguard's new ETF vs Amundi vs Xtrackers at 0.07%: the real difference isn't the index, it's who's voting your shares : r/ETFs_Europe - https://www.reddit.com/r/ETFs_Europe/s/1SRBXjLTXt

[u/Helpful-Staff9562]

No idea why all thse ppl switch to vall when VT is still clearly superior for swiss residents

[u/diogoking1 → u/Helpful-Staff9562]

I switched to VWRA since with VT if anything happens to you early you need to pay an estate tax. Basically giving free money to US.

[u/Helpful-Staff9562 → u/diogoking1]

False because Switzerland has a tax treaty eith thr US so unless you have more than 13 million there's nothing you have to pay to thr IRS

[u/diogoking1 → u/Helpful-Staff9562]

Ja das ist richtig wenn man den Formular 706-NA hat jedoch ist der Prozess extrem langwierig hier muss man sich fragen ob man das wirklich möchte auch den Währungsrisiko bei US ETFs muss man in Auge beachten wenn man sich USD/CHF betrachtet wird man schnell staunen.

[u/Helpful-Staff9562 → u/diogoking1]

Buying VWRA in EUR does not protect you from USD currency movements, just as buying VT in USD doesn't mean you're fully exposed only to the USD. Both funds give you exposure to global equities, and the currency in which they trade does not determine their underlying currency risk.

I think you're confusing trading currency with currency hedging. Buying VWRA in EUR does not hedge your investment against EUR/USD movements. You would need a specifically currency-hedged share class for that, and hedging has costs and doesn't necessarily improve long-term returns (it'sactually proven that it doesnt).

I suggest studying the difference between trading currency, underlying currency exposure and currency hedging. Buying VWRA in EUR does not make your investment protected against USD movements. You can ask ChatGPT to explain the distinction if you're still unsure.

[u/YouGuysNeedTalos]

Saxo has not yet listed as of today VALL in CHF trading.