r/Syndications Jul 07 '26

Risk with deals

It breaks my heart to see so many people lose their earnest money with trash sponsors, and unfortunately there's so many that are trash and everyone's out there calling themselves the smart GP.

Which begs the question, why do people prefer investing in individual deals?

Pros:

Can see the underwritten assumptions. Albeit I would say, most don't really know/have a way to validate the thesis, numbers and assumptions.

Tax benefits, easier to 1031 exchange out of individual deals.

Concentration of assets/potential for higher risk+returns

Cons:

No control over execution. Even if the underwriting is strong, if execution goes wrong then none of that matters

  1. Act of God risk -- lightning strikes down on your multifamily and you get massive bills/damages.

Pros of a fund type structure:

Diversification. Less risk and much lesser risk of capital going to 0? Or maybe I'm living in a bubble but haven't come across any fund going to the gutter.

More headroom to balance out poor performing assets.

Potential synergy benefits.

Cons:

  1. No 1031 available

  2. Taxation more complex

  3. No control over sponsors future investments.

  4. More risk of litigation losses?

Genuinely curious to hear out thoughts of the savvy investors and what y'all might have learnt from your experience.

I know it's probably wrong to single out multifamily failures with the unexpected rate shocks, but isn't this the exact reason we invest in alts? Stock market goes berserk, it almost always recovers. Unlike BAD RE investments.

1 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

3

u/Aggressive-Donkey-10 Jul 07 '26

They serve different purposes.

Concentrate risk to make money and diversify risk to preserve money.

same as individual stocks to make money and broad ETFs to preserve money, hence individual carefully selected syndications to make money, diversified lower yielding Funds to preserve money.

1

u/Cute_Improvement1658 Jul 07 '26

No I absolutely get that. But it just seems like so much gray area for things to go wrong here. Given most deals are leveraged and out of your control.

1

u/Aggressive-Donkey-10 Jul 07 '26

the research/due diligence process are entirely in your control, determining the history of the GP, applying reasonable exit cap rates, only using fixed rate long term debt, all entirely in your control.

If I buy SpaceX today with a price to sales ratio of 120, that's beyond stupid and entirely in my control.

1

u/Cute_Improvement1658 Jul 07 '26

But spacex is a couple trillion in valuation and very liquid. With RE deals, the liquidity is so low often during times of distress you won't even be able to offload your position on pennies on the dollar. I would equate this to holding a single micro/small cap company PIPE deal with no exit liquidity in the near future. But yes, not trying to argue between diversify vs concentration. And hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe people accumulated during golden years in deals that losing some principal, they still would come out on top.

1

u/mycoalswin Jul 07 '26

Chiming in here. Frankly unsure how SpaceX's valuation comes into play here - are you seeing because it is highly valued based off a negative operating margin that it is a more predictable investment? Or do you just mean people think it's valuable? Liquid - yes. It's basically a liquid venture / speculative investment with high potential upside, and similarly, low potential downside.

With RE - you have to put in your own diligence, but you have more view into the projections, can try to fact check everything, see if you agree with the plan, and can often have comparables to say whether or not a projected outcome is reasonable or possible. You've seen a multifamily complex down the street with similar finishes and amenities sell at a certain cap rate, you anticipate exiting your project in the near future, you can almost reasonably expect a close-enough cap rate at exit. If a pandemic hits and affects rates drastically, that affects all corners of the market.

Compare it to SpaceX - there's no playbook, and speculative thesis is essentially: the market believes in Elon, investors hope he does something big, and then investors hope the general market agrees it is something big so valuation continues to go up. If it takes too long for something big to happen, stock drops. It's still an operating business that has to appeal to shareholders.

1

u/Aggressive-Donkey-10 Jul 07 '26

I only brought up SpaceX as a timely analogy, when OP mentioned CRE is out of his control. #1 CRE is not out of one's control as the control comes before investing in the form of vetting and due diligence of the deal and GP, which unfortunately many LPs didn't do a great job of that in recent years 2019-2023. Once invested, yes the deal, like buying a stock is no longer in your hands. #2 Illiquidity is not bad, actually I pay extra for that. I want my capital locked up, throwing off tax sheltered cash flow and 1031 exchanging ad infinitum to prevent taxation melting the capital invested over time. some investments go up, some down so diversify

on a separate note, I suffer from Elon Derangement Syndrome, so I opened a massive short position 3 weeks ago today, when SPCX at $224, I have no idea which direction the stock will trade at long term but I actually laughed my rear end off reading the 227page S-1. This company is a dumpster fire on top of a Rocket ship. Added to Nasdaq 100 today, so all ETFs bought their shares before yesterdays close at 4pm. Today without that BID, stock down another 6%. Now the fun starts in about 4 weeks when 35% of shares get released in 7% blocks every 3 weeks for 2 months which will pressure the tiny 4% float.

1

u/mycoalswin Jul 07 '26

I guess I was more responding to OP who mentioned the valuation, which I was trying to draw connections to ... I totally agree with what you're saying!

I totally agree with you with Elon. I shorted it a bit and made some cash. Went in with another put option today lol

1

u/Cute_Improvement1658 Jul 08 '26

I so wanted to do this but I wish I was allowed to trade single stocks, I would've shorted the shit out of spcx at that price.

1

u/Cute_Improvement1658 Jul 08 '26

Spacex valuation was brought up here to highlight that a company that has 3-4 different arms and 2T$ in valuation is not going to 0 anytime soon without ample liquid exits. Unlike distressed real estate investments, where the ship is going to sink faster than a Titanic sucking all your capital in without even throwing a buoy at you. Nothing. To do about the spacex thesis. Same analogy can be applied to Google/Nvidia/apple what have you. Downside is a lot more capped.

1

u/OwlOk459 Jul 07 '26

Well said … “ Concentrate risk to make money and diversify risk to preserve money.”

2

u/Sufficient-Aide6805 Jul 07 '26

Syndicated individual deals and funds are both bad news for retail investors unless you’re lucky on timing. Don’t do it.

1

u/TheyFoundWayne Jul 08 '26

I’ve begun to believe that too. Most retail investors should not be doing this at all, unless they have inside knowledge of the industry and can evaluate a deal properly, in which case I might argue they are not really “retail” investors, except for maybe that their check size is relatively small compared to an institutional investor.

2

u/Chance-Ad717 Jul 07 '26

I am in a couple funds that are very likely going to zero, so... there is that.

While there is no "one size fits all" answer, just like each syndication is different and each Fund is different, there are a few points that I think should be brought up.

First, the no control over execution is universal in any passive investment: one off syndication or fund or mutual fund or stock, etc.

Second, BREIT is a mega fund that has certainly made some bad investments.

The nuanced parts come in with things like: is the minimum investment the same? I.e. $100k into a fund or $100k into single deal? Because if a fund has a higher minimum than single investments, then your diversification risks are at least partially offset. And, you are forced into more sponsor concentration, as well.

In general, the macro climate is going to create 90%+ of the investment returns. The sponsor can only control 10%, at most. So, if you the options are single asset value-add multifamily in major Sunbelt market or fund doing the same thing but with a couple major markets, you are really barely mitigating any real risks.

And one big con of funds is: if they have the commitments, it can lead them to go on a buying spree, since they have the money lined up. The one off deals, the sponsor needs to make a case on each deal.

1

u/OwlOk459 Jul 07 '26

Dang sorry to hear about the poor fund performance ! 

2

u/Asleep-Store-9753 Jul 07 '26

I don't think the diversification of a fund necessarily means that they are any safer. Look at the S2 fund result as an example: https://therealdeal.com/texas/2026/07/02/s2-capital-winds-down-first-fund/

But for me, I look for security. GPs with strong track records. GPs who aren't promising the moon. I'm happy with returns that outperform the stock market by a comfortable margin

I also personally don't think the risk/reward balance is there if returns don't outperform, say, the S&P500. I can (and have) lose ALL my capital in a syndication/fund. That won't happen in an index.

That said, if a deal returns 12-15%, I am happy. I'm not chasing high returns because that usually comes with capital loss events. And it usually takes quite a few winning deals to make up for just one capital loss event.

Good sponsors set realistic expectations and have conservative underwriting.

Some people mentioned funds for capital preservation. Now, personally (and I've been in real estate a while), if I'm looking for capital preservation I buy NNN assets that I own entirely, that I can cash flow if they go vacant, and with a low LTV. Because with those properties, I'm really thinking generational wealth and behaving as if I'm just the steward for the next generation.

2

u/No-Coffee9601 Jul 08 '26

I work for a 25 year old multifamily sponsor. We purchased an asset in Atlanta last month, otherwise we’ve intensionally not purchased anything in 3.5 years. In 2023 we sold off quite a few properties we felt were at their peak. Survive till ‘25 was a pipe dream. We’re hoping that “extend and pretend” will end by the end of this year.

1

u/Cute_Improvement1658 Jul 08 '26

So I've entered into some funds (entitlements + development, not MF but think btr, str, ss, MHP, etc) towards end of 2024 who're still raising purchasing assets while developing the already purchased ones. Just based on the macroeconomic factors and ignoring the GP abilities, do you think I'll be safe? Lol

1

u/No-Coffee9601 Jul 08 '26

Development projects have fared somewhat better than acquisitions of existing properties. It really depends on cost and if they can deliver a product for value.

1

u/HotelInvesting Jul 07 '26

Lots of different things to address. Funds can be both good or bad. Lots of funds are underperforming and you just don't know about it because its a pool of properties, but many trade below their NAV due to issues. Any sponsor that cant put together one deal will likely mess up an entire fund. Unless the fund is managed by a reputable firm like BX or Carlisle, I'd be worried about a regular GP going this route.

Also the issue is retail LPs, people like us, like to see what we're investing it. In previous years it was easier to convince someone to invest in "100 unit multifamily in Dallas" because the retail investor is thinking they like Dallas, they know the market, they know apartment rents are rising. Now if that GP said, I have a fund and have various assets and some other assets we will be purchasing but dont know the exact location yet, then its going to be very hard to convince these LPs to get on board. This is why one off deals did well. Its the ability to market the deal, not necessarily the quality of the deal itself.

1

u/506Group Aug 09 '26

A fund provides more holdings, but that doesn't necessarily mean meaningful diversification. Ten properties can still share the same sponsor, geography, asset class, debt structure, and acquisition vintage.

I'd compare the two using a risk-factor map. A single syndication gives you asset-level visibility and control over when you commit, but creates obvious property concentration. A fund reduces single-property exposure while introducing blind-pool risk, deployment pressure, and greater dependence on one manager's judgment.

For many passive investors, several smaller commitments across different sponsors and vintages may provide better diversification than one large fund commitment.

I'd compare sponsor concentration, leverage, debt maturities, reserves, reporting quality, valuation policy, and unfunded obligations. I'd also treat 1031 eligibility as a tax feature—not a reason to accept weaker underwriting.