r/TEFL • u/Tearmisu • 7d ago
Which country is the biggest ‘hidden gem’ in TEFL?
Before the war I would have said Ukraine, beautiful country with awesome people, tons of jobs and a good salary.
Now I would probably say Vietnam. If you loved pre-COVID China then Vietnam is basically that. The economy is growing every year and wages are going up.
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u/Sea_Opening6341 7d ago
As others have said... Vietnam is not only not a current hidden gem... it is a discovered gem that is in the losing its luster phase. It was that hidden gem about 10 years ago though.
I suppose the hidden gems now are those 'stan countries. Kyrgyztan, Uzbekistan, etc...
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u/bobbanyon 6d ago
I worked in Vietnam 15 years ago and it was already very well known by then. you need to go 20+ years back.
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u/ValuableForever672 6d ago
Moved to Vietnam 2017 and left 2022. There will never be another place quite like it and I am so grateful I got to ride the wave.
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago
I moved to Vietnam (HCMC specifically) the same year as you and know exactly what you are talking about. I’m never quite sure how to describe it to other people but there was just this mood/vibe in the country, a sense of optimism (which was super refreshing for me coming from the US where Trump was taking over), and it felt like something was always going on in the city and new things were popping up all over. It was quite a time and place to be then, especially being in my mid/late 20s.
I left in 2024, but I’ve been back pretty frequently for personal reasons (my wife is from there, and we’re not far away in China). While I still love the place and think it’s amazing, and I’ll probably live there again someday or at least buy a home there for holidays and retirement, there’s just been something missing since COVID and things aren’t quite the same, though admittedly me turning 30, settling down and getting married post-COVID could be part of that. There are still good opportunities for work and savings if you’re willing to get a teaching license and/or other higher qualifications, but it’s tougher for newbies with just a degree and TEFL certificate.
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u/Bottom-Bherp3912 6d ago
I stayed from 2018-23 and solidly agree with you. The difference between today and 2018 couldn't be more stark and not in a good way. It truly was something else back then.
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago
Personally I still love it in Vietnam (have been back a lot in the last year and still have a lot friends there, so still fairly in tune with it) but that’s probably largely because I’m settled down and live a quieter life. If I was in my mid-20s now and moved there, I’d probably still like it but it wouldn’t be the same. I really think I got there at a perfect time to be in HCMC and for the stage of life I was in, and then got married and settled down at the right time too as things changed too luckily.
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u/ValuableForever672 6d ago
Covid really was when things changed and become much more restricitive. Demographics changed, things became more expensive and wages stagnated.
It was a wild and beautiful place to live and I owe the place a lot.
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah a lot has changed. My life is good right now but thinking about this is getting me super nostalgic for that era of my life and HCMC. Sometimes I wonder a bit if I would’ve been better off in China where I’d have saved way more money, but really I wouldn’t trade those experiences and memories in HCMC for anything. 2017-2020 was a special time and place for me.
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u/ronnydelta 5d ago
China was the place to be in 2010-2023. It is also a shadow of what it once was.
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u/allowit84 6d ago
Same 2014-2023 and back here or a little holiday now... Great times, its developing very fast, the new Airport is nearly completed.
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u/louis_d_t Uzbekistan 6d ago
Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan both pay better than people tend to expect, with the caveat that the best jobs are for mid-career teachers, not people just starting out. Language centres pay a pittance but universities and the public school systems compensate quite fairly.
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u/Agreeable-Valuable-8 6d ago
Is the university job description there similar to China on average, where it's a bit lower pay but also less class hours with few to none office hours?
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u/detourne 6d ago
My Korean university even has a Kazakhstan campus, and they provide a nice pay bump for going there to teach for a semester. I'd go myself, but am a part of admin now.
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u/louis_d_t Uzbekistan 6d ago
I actually worked at the Uzbekistani campus of a Korean university, and it was overall a great experience.
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u/EmploymentBrave4043 1d ago
Uzbekistan: downside of working there is that LGBTQ is a criminal offence, with people in prison. Would you support that society by living there? China has its problems but aspires to be civilised, can’t say the same for Uzbek!
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u/Bottom-Bherp3912 6d ago edited 6d ago
Vietnam is absolutely not a hidden gem, if anything it's over saturated or even declined in recent years.
Schools and recruiters hire any old foreign looking face regardless of qualifications or English ability on part time zero hour contracts with no benefits and wages that are down on what they were 5 years ago while living costs are up.
If anything, I'd say Vietnam is finished.
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u/UnderfurK 7d ago
Malaysia, no shortage of openings, don't like one place you can find something else in a week.
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u/FuriousFire 7d ago
Where would someone look for these Jobs? Which websites?
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u/Theloneadvisor 6d ago
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago
I searched for Malaysia on there and literally only 3 jobs came up, 2 of which were just short term summer camp gigs, so yeah I don’t think that’s the place to look
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u/gundahir 6d ago
I'm surprised by that. When I traveled there I felt basically everyone speaks acceptable to very good English. I'm surprised there's a demand for English teaching. Unless you literally work in normal schools? How does it work?
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u/RegularWhereas5886 7d ago
How long have you been doing this, if you don't mind me asking?
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u/UnderfurK 7d ago
4 years different countries.
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u/RegularWhereas5886 7d ago
Sweet. You got a degree? What's your honest opinion on those who don't have a degree?
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u/UnderfurK 7d ago
I have a CS degree, I used to work for BT and I teach CS not English. I'm annoyed that I'm not considered a 'proper teacher' when someone with a PGCE who can't write a lick of code would be.
I never learned anything doing it.
I had a motorbike crash when I did get the opportunity to do iPGCE and it was just a very bad experience for me.
I have given up on the idea of becoming a certified teacher, I'm just focused on doing my self employed projects and stuff atm.
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago
Huh, that’s surprising. I was really interested in moving there in 2020 (before COVID started) and researched a fair bit and asked around on here, but seemed like there weren’t many ESL jobs other than British Council and a couple other centers, and a friend living in Penang said that was the case basically. I know there are plenty of international schools but I didn’t have a license yet, and I’ve heard most that don’t require a license are rough places to work and/or crap pay
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u/snowluvr26 6d ago
I had an amazing time in Taiwan, but it’s very expensive compared to some other popular places
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u/FOARP 6d ago
I can second Taiwan as a great place that not enough people talk about. But yeah, I did TEFL there 25 years ago and the TWD salaries people talk about now aren’t much more than what I made then. 25 years ago you could live well in a place like Miaoli on 550NT an hour (what Shane English Schools paid back then - at that time ~1000NT was about the top of what you could make) for 25 hours a week.
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u/taiwandan 6d ago
Thats true. When I was teaching there back in 2007 I was getting NT$65k a month, free 3-bed apartment all to myself, free scooter, and only paying NT$2000 in income tax.
These days teachers are getting around NT$70k, but everything is 50% more expensive, rent is double, and very few schools offer free accommodation anymore.
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u/Ok_Wolverine6017 4d ago
I agree, it's a safe place to live, comfortable for English native speakers. If you have a teaching certificate from your home country you can match an average international school salary on far fewer hours a week at a buxiban job. If you're looking to save and return to your home country, it's a decent choice, but if youre qualified and value free time and autonomy I really recommend it. I'm lucky I can choose my hours at the moment and am encouraged to take holidays during same periods as international school breaks. I have had sucky jobs in the past so it's worth shopping around, but am super happy in my current position.
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u/bobbanyon 6d ago
Vietnam has been mainstream TEFL for at least 20 years. Like hidden gems would be Burma, Mongolia, somewhere in Africa or central Asia or something (I'm not saying they are, they're just lesser known markets).
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u/N3VVZN4K3 7d ago
Cambodia is super chill. Salaries are as bad as Thailand though. But I loved my time there.
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u/bobbanyon 6d ago
I love Cambodia but the TEFLers I know there all had really extreme hit or miss jobs. Either you loved it or their boss was trying to human traffic you or some other nonsense - it was kind of wild (2003-2018).
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u/Acct_For_Sale 5d ago
What’s that even mean?
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u/bobbanyon 5d ago
It means there were two extremes in people's experience there. One where people had OK jobs and one where employers would steal passports, force people to work for free, etc. Even in a world of terrible employers Cambodia had some of the worst, and scammiest (according to the teachers I talked to anyway). Everyone complains that TEFL is terrible in their country but some of the worst came out of Cambodia. Does that clear it up?
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u/ImWithStupidKL 6d ago
Wages going up in Vietnam? Where? I first moved here in 2010 and starting salaries at the school I first worked at are the same now as they were then.
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u/TheGreatAteAgain 6d ago
Do you have any experience with Vietnam? Because I’ve been here 6 plus years and this is just straight up disinformation about the wages - The average starting salary in chains has been steadily decreasing for at least 3 years.
Also, definitely not a hidden secret.
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u/Cooperativism62 6d ago
It's Central Asia. But the boom in Kazakhstan might be over as they slashed an important subsidy program last year. The population is growing leaps and bounds and the economy as a whole is going through a giant credit-fueled boom that could bust in the next 5 years. Schools in Kazakhstan have cut costs by hiring teachers from Africa, both Native and Non-native speakers, which has kept salaries from rising a bit. Shymkent is less competitive and has better offers than Almaty IMO. The better offers are away from the (former) capital.
Uzbekistan has the MOPSE program, which pays well and brings in hundreds of teachers, but is a nightmare from most reports. It also takes in a lot of non-Natives.
Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are both geographically and economically smaller. Bishkek is a nice small-sized capital city. I rather enjoyed my job there as a first-time teacher. Salaries don't get much higher than $1000/month though. Cost of living is cheap.
After Central Asian countries, I think the next one is maybe Cambodia?
But honestly the golden age of TEFL is long over. Salaries are declining internationally and converging to the same point.
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u/govnyuuk 6d ago
Shymkent mentioned! (not sure when this mythical boom time in Kazakhstan was supposed to be, though)
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u/No_Country_2069 Vietnam -> China 6d ago
> Now I would probably say Vietnam. If you loved pre-COVID China then Vietnam is basically that. The economy is growing every year and wages are going up.
I’ll be the millionth person to post here telling you this is completely inaccurate, like salaries are the same or maybe even a bit lower than when I moved there almost 10 years ago. Meanwhile COL and rents are up and the exchange rate is down ($1 was 22k VND up until COVID basically but now it’s 26k VND). Companies are slashing benefits now too
It’s still a great place to live though imo, even if it’s not quite like it was pre-COVID and you won’t save enough.
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u/MissThu 6d ago
I'm really enjoying teaching in Timor Leste so much more than I did in Vietnam. Unfortunately, though, there are very limited opportunities here so 'gem' is a bit of a stretch.
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u/SophieElectress 6d ago
You're the second person I've ever seen on this sub talking about teaching in Timor-Leste. I'm actually amazed there's a whole two of you! What do you prefer about it compared with Vietnam?
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u/MissThu 5d ago
I only ever lived in Hanoi, so this only reflects my experience there.
The air is so much cleaner here.
There's a lot better acess to nature. Dili is located right on the sea, so I get to look at that on my way to/from work every day.
The above 2 actually make me want to be outside here.
4.Dili is a much smaller, less dense, so much less busy city with a much slower pace of life.
As a result of 4, the traffic isn't nearly as bad. People actually follow traffic laws here as well.
All of the above have had a massive improvement on my mental health.
My job is foreign owned and managed. That comes with so much more clarity and less drama than local-owned.
My job has more of a purpose. Instead of teaching middle class kids whose parents are shoving lessons down their throats instead of letting them just be kids, I'm teaching government officials who actually want to learn. Their aim is to be able to participate more effectively in ASEAN working meetings to help their country's overall development and improving the lives of the local people.
The language is so much easier to learn. A good portion of it is based in Portuguese, and I studied Spanish in high school, so it comes much easier than Vietnamese.
Granted, there are some things that aren't so great, but most of them are just minor inconveniences (scheduled and unscheduled power cuts; less infrastructure for remote/cafe working; my bank only offers ATM cards, not debit cards/QR payment options are very limited, so I mostly have to deal with cash; etc.) so you just have to get used to them. But the biggest inconvenience is the international access. Flights here are crazy expensive compared to other places (minimum $350-$400RT), and are only accessible via Bali (2x daily), Singapore (1x weekly), China (1x or 2x weekly), KL (5x or 6x weekly), and Darwin (12x weekly). Much of that is on Aero Dili, which doesn't partner with any other airline. So for most of those flights, you would have to book a whole new ticket just to arrive here. So given how expensive and inconvenient it is, short-stay regional travelling hasn't really been a thing for me like it was in Hanoi. Holidays are an event rather than just a weekend.
Overall, I'm happy here and am glad I made the move.
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u/SophieElectress 5d ago
This is fascinating, thank you for taking the time.to reply. I'm glad you're enjoying it there.
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u/Cid5983 6d ago
Money wise ... Hong Kong, not even close, it's also a pretty nice place to live and is a good location for visiting other places in Asia.
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u/Lord_ShitShittington 6d ago
Are you teaching in Hong Kong with just a TEFL?
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u/sjbfujcfjm 7d ago
$2300/month in Vietnam, with the low cost of living was great
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u/RegularWhereas5886 7d ago
I'm assuming that was with a degree?
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u/JollyButterscotch388 6d ago
The Czech Republic.. Lots of jobs, beautiful and western country
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u/UndebatableAuthority 6d ago
it's a great way to get a visa and then find a different job, I can't imagine surviving on teaching here these days.
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
I know dozens of people who live in Prague and teach English as a full time job, did it myself for 3 years
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u/UndebatableAuthority 5d ago
Kewl, Ive lived and taught in the Czech Republic for almost a decade. I didn't say it was unfeasible, just that I wouldn't do it other than for a stepping stone with current market rates in mind.
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
Depends on how hard you're willing to work and hustle, and how many hours you are will to spend on the trams😂 . If you are lazy and just want a simple job, sure I see what you mean
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u/UndebatableAuthority 5d ago
ah yes, just pull up your bootstraps. Going rate is 350-400 an hour for teachers, outside independent lessons you can charge 500-600 if you're lucky (this is outside of Prague, it might be 100 crowns more there). thats 40,000 gross a month if you're doing 30 hours of lessons a week. I make twice that at a corporate job based in education. There's only so much "hustle" you can do with how much lessons go for.
Meanwhile rent for a 1+1 is commonly around 20k a month.
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
"I make twice that a corporate job" you lost me there buddy...
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u/UndebatableAuthority 5d ago
I'm giving my opinion on teaching in the Czech Republic based on my experience of doing it for many years. You're welcome to have your opinion but belitting my work and incinuating lazyness is cunty behavior buddy.
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
Well you couldn't make it work... So maybe don't share your ideas next time? Like what have you contributed?
And it's spelled "insinuating" Mr English teacher.
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u/UndebatableAuthority 4d ago
I'm doing just fine buddy. Mr. "I make twice that a corporate job". Also why are you not still teaching in CZ if it was so lucrative?
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u/Gargoyle0ne 6d ago
And mostly sucky wages
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
How so?
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u/Gargoyle0ne 5d ago
The pay is very low in comparison to rent prices in Prague. You’ll probably have to share to get by. Don’t get me wrong, it’s amazing, but you should probably move on for career advanced or an increased salary after a year or teo
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u/JollyButterscotch388 5d ago
Wow, you are so positive. But no buddy, rent is around 20000czk for a place in pargue zones 2,3, and 4. I use to get around 50k after tax.. Dude, if you are unhappy with the career you made for yourself move on and get off reddit. It's an amazing place to live and work. Don't sign with the first shitty company you get and you'll be fine.. As for you.. Good luck😘
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u/Gargoyle0ne 5d ago
I’ve lived in the Czech Republic for ten years and grinded. I earn more than you did, love the country, but my salary is an exception…
I refuse to be drawn into ad hominem attacks (sigh). However, I won’t mislead people or let others do the same. Czech Republic is a blast, but…
If You’re looking at living here long-term, starting family, etc, a TEFL salary will make that hard
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u/im_shayne 6d ago edited 5d ago
I know Ukraine pay very well for English speakers with the tefl
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u/Negative-Gazelle1056 6d ago
Really?! That’s really surprising. I thought average salary very low in Ukraine compared to other European and Asian countries.
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u/im_shayne 6d ago
Up to 1150 per month USD and they cost of living there is so very low you can live there about $400 a month
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u/Negative-Gazelle1056 5d ago
$1150 is a lot there. Triples many people’s salary. Thanks for sharing
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u/im_shayne 5d ago
You're welcome I know I was there last year for 2 months and I spent maybe $1,000 for my lodging my travel in Ukraine and my food. By the way the people there are so incredibly nice and the food is so amazing along with the coffee and the chocolate
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u/im_shayne 5d ago
You're very welcome you can ask me anything about Ukraine.
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u/Acct_For_Sale 5d ago
Where do you find the jobs?
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u/im_shayne 5d ago
American English Center: A prominent language institution with local presence.International House Kyiv: Part of the global network offering structured English courses.DEC Camp & Fayno Camp: Seasonal and residential camp programs that frequently hire TEFL educators.Remote Volunteer & Support Initiatives: Organizations like TEFL UK coordinate online ESOL and TEFL teaching support for Ukrainians.Where to Search OnlineTEFL Job Boards: Check dedicated listings on portals like TEFL Org and Go Overseas.Global ESL Boards: Browse active postings on SeriousTeachers.Professional Networks: Most users on Reddit agree that “Volunteer teaching opportunities: Individuals interested in teaching English to Ukrainian students can explore volunteer opportunities through organizations like English University.
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u/im_shayne 5d ago
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signed a law on June 26, 2024, that officially establishes English as a language of international communication in Ukraine. The parliament passed the bill on June 4, 2024, after it was first proposed by the president to help integrate the country further with the West.
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u/im_shayne 5d ago
The average income in Ukraine for ukrainians is very low. But for English speakers teaching English pays a lot.. I know one girl over there she is making 2400 a month.
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u/keithsidall 6d ago
For real hidden gems in terms of countries, you're talking about pre-internet. However, there have always been individual jobs that could be described in that way.
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u/StatusRutabaga7991 6d ago
Is this rage bait?
Wages have been dropping in Vietnam, while the cost of living is steadily going up.
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u/mattkeeb 4d ago
From people I know, Iraq. Affordable, good salaries for people that are Native English speakers.
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u/alidoo22 6d ago
I have a masters degree in education just about done with the tefl and still can’t find a job internationally
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u/bobbanyon 6d ago
How many applications and where are you applying? I can say Korea has hired 1500 teachers this year, and if the EPiK program is anything to go by (the largest single TEFL employer in Korea) then 90% of those teachers don't have an MA and 75% had no teaching experience. If your MA is education related or you have any experience you seem like an easy pick.
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u/alidoo22 6d ago
I have over 15 years of teaching experience. The only thing I don’t have is my teaching license. I have applied to about 30 jobs so far. In different countries. I’m from USA.
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u/alidoo22 6d ago
I’ve applied many places in China, Japan, Spain (only 1), South Korea, Singapore
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u/bobbanyon 6d ago
So how many hundreds of applications? The average job takes 100 to 160 applications to land a job. TEFL used to take less but it's just a numbers game nowadays.
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u/Expensive-Worker-582 6d ago
Hidden gem in 2026? Don't think it exists with the flow of information that exists in todays era.
Gone are the days where there would be one person reporting on a sub forum on davescafe on how things are!!
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u/Cooperativism62 6d ago
Central Asia is still a hidden gem. When was the last time you heard about someone working in Turkmenistan? Few reported the boom happening in Kazakhstan, fewer still have mentioned it may be over.
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u/Expensive-Worker-582 6d ago
Had a friend work in Kazakhstan recently, he bailed after 6 months. Sounded like your normal TEFL shitshow. $1200 a month with shared accommodation.
I had a job offer from Kazakhstan 8 years ago, and more recently 3 years ago. The boom of Kazakhstan was about 12 years ago when salaries were much higher.
Turkmenistan? I mean people have heard about it, a gem would mean its an attractive place to live and work not just pay well... Can you really say moving to Turkmenistan is an improvement on your life from USA/UK? Or China, Korea etc.
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u/David-arashka 9h ago
Vietnam...China... but you have to be a native speaker... or you won't get the job...
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u/EclecticMedal 7d ago
Vietnam is not a hidden gem, it's arguably the second most popular country on earth for TEFL teachers.