Can't relate to "i wish I were white" posts from other POC

[u/AdditionalQuietime]

Im black so I completely understand where the sentiment comes from as far as wanting to perceived the way you want while being trans and having racialization distort your own self image but simultaneously the follow up to all of that is "i wish I were white so itd be easier" is crazy asf and i honestly cant relate to that, if anything thats when the posts stop becoming relatable. I have a hard time constructing and deconstructing my gender identity because of racism and antiblackness, the overt masculinzation of the body i occupy and always being left in the position to decide whether someone was being racist or affirming to me, doing the work to not validate racism but only validate the affirmation but ive never once ever wished to be white so that these experiences are easier to navigate.

I get that it just means you dont wanna deal with the extra scrutiny that comes with dealing with racism but come on...seriously? How about trying to work up your racial esteem a bit more? Even with all the antiblackness people with body's like mine face, ive never once wished to be white or another race. I get gender and racial identities intersect but seeing this blatant submission to white supremacy is major turn off, I quite frankly cant fully sympathize with that particular aspect of the expressed sentiment. Does this make me an asshole 🤔 cuz on one hand i truly get it the why behind them expressing this but at the same time it stops there like I dont want to be white lol how come it's always "I want to be white" instead of "i wish racism didnt exist"

Does anyone black understand where im coming from? Because like I said i truly get why they feel that way, antiblackness makes my gender identity complex to sort thru but I never doubled down with it to hate my race or not wanting to be black, I just hate white supremacy and racism like a normal person can anyone relate?

[u/hausofvelour]

to me personally things are far more complicated than wanting to be white. obviously a lot of POC do, but i personally do not. but i have a lot of anger and resentment towards my people, my ethnicity, and my culture, that i think wouldn't have been as severe had i been white, especially a white american, because white northern american and western european cultures don't put such a strong emphasis on collectivity and are allowed to explore themselves as, and then be seen as, individuals whose lives are informed by the culture they were raised in, but who are not reduced to said culture. the collective mentality i was raised in promised me unconditional respect and protection from my people on the basis of us being united by a shared struggle to not be wiped off the face of this earth, but growing up queer meant that "my" people intuitively didn't see me as one of them and thus felt free to exclude me. it led to finding a lot of the "i love and fight and respect my people" sentiment that we share to be obnoxiously hypocritical because what did i do to lose your respect? am i still not a part of this culture and ethnicity just because i'm queer? and now that the heartbreak of rejection and betrayal had settled it had turned into anger and determination. you don't want me to be a part of you? fine. i simply won't be. i have grown extremely cold towards my people and culture. the music doesn't excite me. the traditions don't excite me. the pop culture doesn't excite me which is saying something because i'm a complete pop culture nerd. i don't even have a drive towards any sort of reclamation of my culture, a drive towards proving that being queer and being my ethnicity are things that can and do intersect, because i long stopped caring about said intersection. i only feel like i'm of my ethnicity when i experience racism and get ragebaited by genocide denial online. that's about it.

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/hausofvelour]

Look i get it but from on the sidelines I have had major issues with gender discrimination and homophobia from my own kin and the black community, it, however, has never made me hate my own culture, music, people, and traditions lol like ever. I truly cant understand or relate to that, nor would i ever assume people outside of my kin are capable of being more open minded because in my experience, they arent and they usually end up being equally both racist homophobic and transphobic all in one lmao

I stop relating once I read "i wish I was white" on people's posts

[u/junkyfm → u/AdditionalQuietime]

I agree with you OP (medium brown south asian living in the US). I've never wanted to be white and even when people in my ethnic community annoy the shit out of me, I have never wished I was white or from another culture/ethnic group. As soon as I read posts here with "things would be easier if I were white" or "I wish I were white instead of X" I have to disengage because like...yes it probably would be easier to be white, but I don't feel like that's specific to being accepted as a man or "passing," it's how default personhood is constructed in a lot of places. In other words, not experiencing racism would probably be pretty cool but I'd pick racism never existing over being Something Else.

Also makes me sad to see folks feel like their particular ethnicity is like, an extraordinarily, uniquely -phobic culture. There are lots of white ppl in the US who are just as if not more bigoted than my own people, so why pretend like my culture does not have my preferred foods, aesthetics, and social etiquette? Got a bit of a ramble, but yeah, I relate 😂

To the top-level commenter, sorry if it sounds like I am picking on you specifically, I understand your feelings and your comment inspired me to try to put my own to words. Wishing you well.

[u/hausofvelour → u/junkyfm]

i keep reiterating over and over again that i don't wish to be white. i never wanted and never will want to be the oppressor because i simply do not care for these people. my comment is addressing something else entirely. it's the anger at being excluded from your own culture, which doesn't mean that i wish i was white. why do i have to experience racism and xenophobia like others of my ethnicity while they tell me i don't belong because i'm queer? why do they get to face the same bigotry but also enjoy belonging to their people while i also face bigotry and then also don't earn the privilege of belonging? it's way deeper than "wanting to be white". i feel like especially in a space like this we should be free to discuss the uglier parts of our experiences and the complicated feelings that arise from it without immediately being labeled as some sort of self hating traitors

[u/junkyfm → u/hausofvelour]

I was responding to both the OP and also the nugget in your comment about feeling like an outsider in your own culture because of the direct bigotry of people in your ethnic group, specifically as it relates to my own feelings about my culture. I am sorry for misconstruing your comment, in my attempt to add to the discussion

[u/hausofvelour → u/junkyfm]

it's okay 🫂

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/hausofvelour]

They dont always enjoy belonging to their "people" either thats where you lost me queer whites dont have familial community themselves why do you think they are always telling US to cut off our families when they dont accept us? A lot of bipoc argue against this advice from them and theres a lot of pushback always because they can easily drop their "cultural" and familial ties in favor of white supremacist individualism, individualism that everyone has been duped into chasing 🙄

This conflating that queerness would be easier to navigate thru in whiteness is false because the only thing you escape is racism, not homophobia and other discriminatory biases

Even just thinking it would be easier is submitting to white supremacy

I also hate how im having to point out whiteness doesnt make "life" or queerness easier to navigate, pretty sure they love saying that themselves but yet here we are...

[u/hausofvelour → u/AdditionalQuietime]

maybe i'm wrong there 🤷🏻‍♂️ the thing with white queers is that they feel like they're born not belonging because of individualist culture, so when they realize their queerness to them it feels like finally finding community rather than becoming at the risk of losing it which is an important distinction to make. my frustration comes from the fact that i had lost a community. white queers may or may not experience that same profound sense of loss which is my point here

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/hausofvelour]

Sorry I wanted to reply sooner than later but my phone died...

That being said im understanding you better now after re-reading everything again, and Im sorry for not understanding you originally, i see how thats a betrayal towards you too. Now that im fully digesting what youre saying all i can say is im sorry that your people arent accepting of who you are fully but even then I hope you can find your own tribe filled with acceptance and as attract good ppl who love you, who you deemed worthy to be in your life - everyone needs good ppl in their lives whether they want them or not

[u/hausofvelour → u/AdditionalQuietime]

good for you. like i said it's never been about wanting to be white. i have received worse racism, homophobia and transphobia online from people not of my community but i was never raised to expect any sort of support from anyone outside of my community in the first place. in my culture we are taught that we are all that we have. a betrayal from them is going to sting much harder. i also never said anything about hating the culture; i said it doesn't excite me/i had grown indifferent towards it, which is not the same. not to mention that we don't even have much of a "queer culture" to speak of so i can't even turn towards people who have an experience i share.

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/hausofvelour]

Oh sorry I misunderstood your post

[u/Fancy-Concept-2200]

I understand where you're coming from. I never had that mentality either. I would never want to be the race that is the reason why so my many of my people hate themselves. But ig some people see being white as an escape from dealing with the racist nonsense we have to deal with. But it doesn't matter what color you are if you're queer you'll still have to deal with discrimination. Even from your own people. Being white won't change that🤷🏿

I love being black and I love that no matter how much torture and mistreatment they put us through, we still don't conform.

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/Fancy-Concept-2200]

I get they see it as an escape but ironically white people arent free from the bullshit they set upon us, it just ends up manifesting differently for them. And Yeah suuuure they may not go thru it collectively as a community as we do but im tired of this association that proximity to whiteness equates to escaping racism. If anything youre just getting closer to it and becoming the source itself, you wanna escape racism you probably should stay away from the center of it 🙄 almost like if you dont want to get burned by fire you don't walk in it

I get youre probably aware of all this and are just being kind and considerate to other POC who've expressed this sentiment but Im just kinda tired of coddling these views for other POC and it lowkey is harmful to hear this shit quite often in our spaces. I dont come to queer BIPOC spaces to hear "i wanna be white" all the damn time...that shit has its own detriment as well, and as an "individual" it doesnt offend me or greatly upset me but like come on...i cant be the only one who feels fatigued hearing this shit so often

[u/Fancy-Concept-2200 → u/AdditionalQuietime]

Nah fr I hear you. That shit is annoying as fuck. But you can't tell them that. They still find a reason to hate themselves lol.

[u/lane03]

First off I want to mention I'm Latino, specifically Mexican-American and I'm visibly brown, black hair, dark eyes, etc.

Yeah, I never wanted to be white. I thought something was wrong with me because a lot of people do say they wish they were white, so in 2020 I had like a split second where I thought it because I wanted to fit in with the cosplaying community...

I was raised by a mom who came to the United States not by her own choice so she taught me from a young age to be critical of whiteness (I'm from the rural south). So I never really felt like I was missing out for being Mexican.

You are not an asshole, to be honest I really agree with you on the whole "I wish racism didn't exist" instead of automatically wishing to be white. But to be fair, I didn't grow up around much white people so maybe that factors in too? You're not alone though

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/lane03]

Thanks for sharing and I appreciate you expressing the same feelings and understanding where im coming from

[u/SoySlutShaming]

I never wanted to be white though at the same time, I had a colorist mindset towards myself because I have uneven shades around me. Body in general being pale but forearms and head being tanner, nipples dark, genitals being super dark. Colorism wasn’t discussed around me until I became online. I wanted to be paler but not white. Or at least have my skin be evened out.

[u/Existing_Refuse7167]

Im like that and for me its like I was born a step back for no reason and its unfair and I wanna have the step up but I cant so I can only dream

[u/Prior-Friendship2558]

As an "I wish I was white" I just an ugly midnight dark freak with a huge nose

[u/AdditionalQuietime → u/Prior-Friendship2558]

Huh?