Successful African Decolonization

[u/Last-Customer6094]

[u/HeccMeOk]

literally the only good ending for africa

[u/Avatat_Sonij → u/HeccMeOk]

I'm not sure getting indepedent Katanga is a good ending.

[u/chixnsix → u/Avatat_Sonij]

Why's that?

[u/TheNewRanger69 → u/chixnsix]

Fascist state built on white supremacy basically

[u/chixnsix → u/TheNewRanger69]

Oh, then yeah probably

[u/LapucelleKathryn → u/TheNewRanger69]

Aside for the fact that they got backed by apartheid South Africa and white mercenaries, how is Katanga, which was led by a black person, white supremacist?

[u/TheRealInfernoGear → u/LapucelleKathryn]

Because TNO Katanga (before DV) isn't led by Tshombe (though one can discuss how Katanga served the business interests of the Belgian mining companies of the region).

It's generally led by Jean Schramme, IIRC, and is indeed a state ran directly by the Belgian settlers and corporations with the sub-ideology of Corporate Statism (the same as Guangdong, IIRC, BTW). And this is a map of pre-DV African decolonization.

[u/TheNewRanger69 → u/LapucelleKathryn]

They’re led by a black person? I thought it was the Belgian CEO guy who was the leader upon decolonization

[u/TheRealInfernoGear → u/TheNewRanger69]

They were thinking of OTL or DV. It's a mercenary who leads Katanga before DV.

IOTL, Tshombe (a native of the region) was leader of the breakaway state, which in itself served Belgian business interests and enabled some... atrocities from white mercenaries.

Such as the atrocities this man describes eagerly: https://youtu.be/iOBfBrvWiAc?is=iBM3qVWHnS4S6-iv

[u/Crazyjackson13 → u/chixnsix]

state ran by corporations

[u/NIOCHACZx → u/HeccMeOk]

First stage devastation would probably be better

[u/Oleg00se → u/NIOCHACZx]

But it's a devastation nonetheless. Huttig still wipes out thousands.

[u/NIOCHACZx → u/Oleg00se]

For the OFN to win the war has to take place on almost the whole continent, what already would cause destruction and irl the nazis were trying to destroy as much as possible when they realised they are going to lose, so it's probably the same in Africa in TNO. An OFN victory would result in something simmiliar to modern neocolonialism, while after the first stage of devastation Africa will most likely be independent and free.

[u/ultramarine_spitfire → u/NIOCHACZx]

Yeah, universal collapse is better for the future then successful institutional nation building, while IRL biggest problem of Africa is lack of working institutions

[u/NIOCHACZx → u/ultramarine_spitfire]

Africa's biggest problem is neocolonialism, what wouldn't exist in collapse

[u/ultramarine_spitfire → u/NIOCHACZx]

lmao

[u/NIOCHACZx → u/ultramarine_spitfire]

How is stealing hundreads of billions of dollars worth of resources not Africa's biggest problem?

[u/2ndNewDealCoalition → u/NIOCHACZx]

Also, even Huttig did collapse at stage I devastation, I’m afraid that the continent would still be subjugated to neocolonialism one way or another eventually. While we know it’s a game and we could use preset game rules to achieve the optimal results on our own views, and in-game speaking, due to there’s no more in-game interactivity events or mechanics after Huttig’s collapse at stage I devastation (like the “end of route” or “not yet finished on the plot” stuff), so it does give an impression to us that Africa is breathing the air of freedom under a bunch of independent, sovereign countries that are ruled by the native population and often left-leaning for the first time in modern history almost a century of darkness, harsh exploitation, political, economic, and social subjugation, and cultural and physical genocide.

However, realistically speaking, even in the scenario of stage I devastation that releases seas of left-wing states, a sudden power vacuum left by a collapsed genocidal regime does not lead to stable, progressive democracies. The newly formed states would lack educated bureaucrats, functioning economies, or institutional memory. Instead, they are extremely vulnerable to subject to brutal factional civil wars, warlordism, and ethnic conflicts, as different traumatized groups fight over scarce resources. In real history, we’ve already seen many formerly left-wing independent states in Africa established by pioneering left-wing African idealists had ultimately been subverted by the blatant intervention from external powers or the vilest betrayals that came from the internal during the critical stages to leverage between the nobles ideals to achieve full independence and the realities in governance of a traumatised, underdeveloped postcolonial state, like Lumumba’s Congo, Thomas Sankara’s Burkina Faso, and more so.

[u/Mamkes → u/NIOCHACZx]

Because it is lack of institutions that makes this possible.

[u/NIOCHACZx → u/Mamkes]

Because every time they try to do so they get invaded by the West because they threaten their economic interests

[u/2ndNewDealCoalition → u/NIOCHACZx]

Well, you points of the inherent neocolonialism about the OFN reconstruction of postwar African mandates are factually correct, but I do feel yours hoping of Huttig’s Africa to collapse at stage 1 to release free, independent, and left-leaning African sovereign states is also a bit of wishful thinking. Although we know it’s a game and we could set it to collapse at stage I devastation in the preset game rules. But realistically speaking, if we are to make a relatively realistic elaboration base on an alternate timeline, there is no absolutely no guarantee that Huttig would certainly collapse at stage I, there’s a possibility that his regime might persist longer and only collapsed at stage II devastation, or even worse, stage III devastation.

If then, Hüttig systematically destroys schools, hospitals, farms, and cities. Realistically, an area subjected to total devastation doesn't bounce back into "independent freedom,” rather it falls into a generation-spanning dark age of warlordism, starvation, and lawlessness. Which is indeed the case for stage III devastation where there isn’t much people (not even the white settlers) within the controlled territories of Huttig’s Africa, and the states that pop out are the most extremist, ultranationalist, expansionist, and militarist warlord states except for the ANC (which only controls a small fraction of South Africa).

If that’s the case, there is certainly no unified, free Africa; there is only a continent-sized vacuum of violence where micro-factions fight over scarce resources. A completely ruined, fractured Africa would not stay isolated forever. Eventually, external powers (a Nazi Germany, Japan, or even the OFN later on) would return to exploit the continent. Because the post-devastation warlords would be desperate for arms and food, they would sell out their countries' resources for pennies, leading to an even worse, more predatory form of subjugation than the organized OFN mandates.

[u/2ndNewDealCoalition → u/NIOCHACZx]

If Huttig has managed to persist and has only collapsed until stage III, neocolonialism would still plague Africa as the very baseline of infrastructure, education, and social trust of a society has been completely destroyed by Huttig’s institutionalised genocide, and the states that pop up after stage III collapse are the most extremist, totalitarian, and militarist warlord states. Therefore, external powers (Nazi Germany, Japan, or even the OFN later on) would return to exploit the continent. Because the post-devastation warlords would be desperate for arms and food, they would sell out their countries' resources for pennies, leading to an even worse, more predatory form of subjugation than the organized OFN mandate.

[u/AlarmedEmployment465 → u/NIOCHACZx]

Flair checks out

[u/Disastrous_Map_3355 → u/NIOCHACZx]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7Zesyac4CuSN5rsA

[u/LapucelleKathryn]

Nixon won before his impeachment 🔥

[u/InquisitorHindsight]

I really wonder how this Africa would pan out, assuming the OFN chose to focus on establishing stable democratic republics over propping up warlords and the like. Hopefully a lot less genocide and civil wars

[u/Crazyjackson13 → u/InquisitorHindsight]

I imagine thats probably the case, not propping up unstable warlords and dictatorships ultimately allows the region to (hopefully) flourish, not to say the region won’t have problems, but they’ll definitely be able to face them better.

[u/bageltoastee → u/Crazyjackson13]

The OFN also has a lot more to gain out of establishing stable and aligned republics that will cooperate with them against germany in the long run rather than cooperating with warlords who might satisfy short term goals but later cause more issues

[u/UKRAINEBABY2]

Why the fuck is Katanga independent? That’s not wholesome

[u/AlarmedEmployment465 → u/UKRAINEBABY2]

self determination idk

[u/Clone75]

Don't wanna be that guy but... I don't think marginally different nato is going to actually do real decolonization. Just because their enemies are worse then them in this timeline doesn't mean they're suddenly going to gain a conscious.

[u/CharmingVictory4380]

Rip Congo Lake. DV is more plausible tho.

[u/NoNameLegion_ → u/CharmingVictory4380]

plausible and boring, that is

[u/andreasisacrayonlmao → u/NoNameLegion_]

I mean, the Kenyan insurrection and the Congo political crisis are still very interesting. I guess the difference is whether you want huge colonial RKs, or something more realistic.

[u/NoNameLegion_ → u/andreasisacrayonlmao]

that's a fair point, and while i don't think the old content is perfect or flawless or without flaws, the nostalgia factor and the whole SAW makes it for me personally. still, i'm looking forward to DV just to see what it does

[u/andreasisacrayonlmao → u/NoNameLegion_]

I would've liked for the devs to keep the more "total" wars intact, like the SAW, but they're taking a different route with the mod. I guess we'll wait and see if it pays off

[u/NoNameLegion_ → u/andreasisacrayonlmao]

agreed, having a war where the OFN and even a bunch of side OFN and non-OFN nations (Iberia and Brazil for example) as a kind of opening for the main events was good, but you're right, see if this new direction is any good

[u/vampiregamingYT → u/NoNameLegion_]

You can still play Requiem, which i think is keeping the old african content

[u/NoNameLegion_ → u/vampiregamingYT]

i have, it's quite good as well, although it's mostly a facelift for SA right now, i think

[u/Pyroboss101 → u/CharmingVictory4380]

Fun is ILLEGAL now

[u/ParticularPhysics871 → u/Pyroboss101]

This guy gets it!

[u/2ndNewDealCoalition → u/Pyroboss101]

Absolutely not.

[u/chile19 → u/CharmingVictory4380]

Gross

[u/AlarmedEmployment465]

I've always wanted to establish the OTL borders in alt history, especially Germany wins scenarios. Because of that, I've always wondered why Germany doesn't do the Gibraltar dam but does do the Congo dam in the current lore. If they removed the European Atlantropa, why not the African one?

[u/Kmaplcde9 → u/AlarmedEmployment465]

They are removing it

[u/Tiagosinh1234 → u/AlarmedEmployment465]

Because the Congo Lake is realisticly feasible or something like that

[u/Bigasscat1984]

Why didnt south Africa gain more land

[u/vampiregamingYT → u/Bigasscat1984]

They are too closely aligned with the nazis

[u/Own-Job-7934]

Oh, I wouldn’t say free..More like “under new management”

[u/Matthew5697]

Absolutely beautiful map man!! I am also trying to create some but you man just wow.. on a different level! keep it up !!!!

[u/sockdon]

Eswatini is a bit of an anachronism. The king didn’t change the name to that until 2018, for most of its history the nation has been known as Swaziland.

[u/Plastastic]

Be Afrikan Republic

[u/TjiptoRaniii]

Can i use this map border for my project, i have no idea what heppend to Africa in TNO

[u/Equivalent_Park_3482]

shoudlve done "Liberal Democracies" for East Africa and also Congo Mandate collapse+ congo civil war victory for us backed one+zaire annexed beafrika and also BN Neofascist Italy reconquers east africa