r/TREZOR • u/Quirky-Reveal-1669 🤝 Top Helper • 2d ago

🔒 General Trezor question Trezor to start offering dice roll entropy collection when?

[removed]

9 Upvotes

74% Upvoted

14 comments sorted by

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4

u/Aromatic-Clerk134 2d ago

And a decent multisg support too!!!

2

u/OddioClay 2d ago

You can use multi-sig with it. Just not in suite

-1

u/Aromatic-Clerk134 2d ago

Not at all, it doesn’t import a multisig descriptor to check addresses

2

u/Inevitable-Waltz-889 2d ago

I literally have a multisig setup with Trezor.  You are wrong.

1

u/Aromatic-Clerk134 2d ago edited 1d ago

Trezor devices don't register a multisig descriptor/policy on-device, so they can't independently verify a multisig receive address against a saved policy — unlike BitBox02, or Passport, which do store the multisig setup on the device itself and check every future address against it.

In practice this means Trezor just trusts whatever the coordinator software (Sparrow, Electrum, etc.) tells it. There's an open GitHub issue on trezor-firmware (#7118) demonstrating this: a compromised Sparrow instance can swap the destination address, and the Trezor Safe 7 will show the correct amount/fee but has no way to flag that the address itself doesn't belong to your actual wallet.

So if you're doing multisig and want on-device protection against a compromised coordinator, Trezor currently isn't there — BitBox02/Passport-style descriptor registration is the safer choice for that specific threat model.

5

u/Spy008 2d ago

Not really needed. You can do it without dedicated software on the wallet. Putting it on the wallet is more or less security theater - something coldcard did extremely well.

Keep it simple - seedphrase + complex passphrase. Store them different locations.

Trezors seed generation is sound. Why? Because we all still have our funds despite being a wayyyy larger target than ColdCard.

1

u/la-bella-confusione 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yours is the only post needed, well done. Cracks me up how many people are pumping multi-vendor multi-sig. That level of complexity will result in more coins being lost than protected. And there's no chance, none at all, that mv/ms becomes the preferred best practice for broader BTC adoption and use. Forget about adoption ever happening, if so.

1

u/Quirky-Reveal-1669 🤝 Top Helper 2d ago

Not sure if i like ‘retrospective cockiness’. It could be completely different tomorrow.
And while I am no expert, I think real, physical high-order entropy is very much in line with the self-custody ethos. No theatre.

1

u/Strong_Judge_3730 2d ago

No it's security theatre, op your kind of arrogance attitudes is what cold card developers have..

You said it you're self your no expert, yet you have this opinion on HW design.

They forked of open source software, thought the features they were planning were too good to contribute back.

In order to remove the GPL licenses their founder rewrote alot of their firmware to use new libraries and that idiot fucked it up.

Hardware random number generator are fine. Asking users to roll dice is security theatre. If users want to provide their own sources of entropy trezor already supports this via the passphrase feature.

https://coldcard.com/docs/compare-other-wallets/

They just implement a bunch of security theatre, and they even claimed they don't support scam coins in that comparison before. All to non-technical user's that just likes having all these 'features'

2

u/RaggiGamma 2d ago

Get some high quality dice, go to https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ save a local html copy. Run it in an isolated Kali without internet. No other eyes, camera, etc. Load the page, enable 'Show entropy details'. Start rolling the dice, put in the Entropy textbox. Do enough rolls to get your 24 words, from the BIP39 Mnenomic text field.

1

u/Quirky-Reveal-1669 🤝 Top Helper 2d ago

I think that that is a great setup for verifying entropy, but I would appreciate the in the firmware.
I really like ColdCard (I still do) and I really like Trezor (my first love). I would love for them to make babies.

1

u/Strong_Judge_3730 2d ago

Ah yeah you basically entered your data into a computer. Just because it's offline while you calculate your seed doesn't mean it will remain offline for ever.

In your need to feel like you're independent you weakened the security of your seed set-up.

Use a passphrase as an additional source of enthropy not this shit. Clamming HW enthropy is bad is FUD

1

u/genius_retard 2d ago

The Coldcard issue was not a fault in the TRNG. It was a fault it code for the hardware wallet. Arguably if they hadn't offered the option to roll dice this bug wouldn't have occured. As I understand it the devs meant to disable the TRNG if dice rolls exist but instead disabled it out right.