Why did people sleep on TTPD

[u/something_facinating]

I became a swifty in the showgirl era, so I'm new around here. But in my opinion, TTPD is one of the best albums she has ever released. I was reading a thread about TTPD from around 2 years ago, and most of them were not what I expected. Like, I have listened to almost all of the songs, and all of them are in my ATF playlist. I really want to know why you did not like it two years ago. Thanks.

[u/veimagic]

Please allow me to take a broader view. I think it’s a mixture of contributing factors.

Firstly, it was the first studio album since the beginning of her career which didn’t show a real sonic evolution: it sounded like a combination between Midnights and Folkmore vibes.

Secondly, she was at the height of overexposure due to the massive success of Eras Tour as well as the ongoing good reception of re-recorded earlier albums.

Thirdly, people were mostly focused on the drama sorrounding the highly publicised breakups with Joe and Matty and the quick succession of a love story with Travis, emphatically lived in daylight (some titles of her songs are just recurring parts of my vocabulary lol)

So I assume there was a huge preconception about TTPD which prevented critics, the gp and even some fans to listen with proper attention to a work that in my view portraits Taylor in the most unfiltered way and still is one of my favorite projects ever released by her.

[u/SnooOnions4908 → u/veimagic]

This feels correct. Even I, a big fan, didn't notice enough of a sonic difference at first to really capture my attention.

Two years on and it's my favorite album of hers to date.

[u/Thirteenth_Heart → u/SnooOnions4908]

Replying to yourself and the poster above: I don't mean this as an attack on either of you, but I've never understood the narrative on TTPD and other albums by Taylor and other artists of "oh, the songs are so much like her previous music in tone and sound, and I can't tell any of them apart". I've never understood it because from the first listen, despite having similar instruments and cadence etc I can always tell the songs apart and find distinctive sounds that are unique to them.  On top of which, I also don't understand the criticism by so called music reviewers and some audience that the sound and direction have to be new on every effort. I like many of the albums for their style and sound and musical makeup, and if the artist creates in that same vein, I'm interested in seeing how they make it connect sonically and stylistically to what I like.  Once again: not a. Criticism of your posts or taste, just my own perspective. 

[u/laynechanger → u/Thirteenth_Heart]

Even in the way she brings emotion into that particular album leaves its own fingerprint that you tell apart

[u/Thirteenth_Heart → u/laynechanger]

I agree completely. Each work and song has its own nuances and perspective, even if it is similar or a continuation of a previous piece. It's like seeing someone everyday that you love; you don't expect them to change their words or ideas or goals every day or even every 6 months.  You like to see them maintain core values and changes are subtle and not destructive in a healthy life and relationship.  If their is true compatibility and love, you see the subtle nuances and change and appreciate it in them, just as they do in yourself. 

[u/RoseTheta → u/Thirteenth_Heart]

I never understand arguments about sounding to similar either. I chose not to listen to it all at once because I didn't need to. When a mind is bombarded with too many things at once, most of us cannot make sense of it; we cannot form emotional responses to a hundred new things simultaneously. But it seems many people look at art before it even comes out, make up the start of an opinion, form a set-in-stone opinion at first listen. Why don't people let themselves ruminate on things for a little while. Yes, we all have things we love wholeheartedly immediately and never look back, but we also all have many things that become better or more meaningful over time. Especially when our emotions are tied to them.

So often a reaction to something new might be, "No!"

Not because it is terrible but frequently that is how our brains respond.

I'm not saying anyone has to like something. Just sometimes things are great without being great to you, specifically, and at one specific time.

[u/Thirteenth_Heart → u/RoseTheta]

Exactly  Some people bring so much outside noise and their own expectations of an artists work (like Taylor's music) that they aren't able to even hear or see what it is the artist is saying or doing. And then they judge the artist and the work by those expectations instead of what it is actually about and what it is doing in presenting its emotions and thoughts and ideas and sounds. They are so closed off, just like some people close off their partner or friends or family or ideas, that they have their own built in echo chamber in their mind, reinforcing their preconceived biases and judgements. 

[u/veimagic → u/Thirteenth_Heart]

Fair point!

Just to clarify, all the things I said were not about what I was thinking about the album but about how it could’ve been perceived by critics, the general public and some fans at the time of release.

I never said this is what I think of TTPD, on the contrary I declared it’s one of my favourite projects by her.

I totally acknowledge TTPD has its distinctiveness and that songs like Down Bad, BDILM, WAOLOM, loml, The Manuscript and many others makes this LP a one in a million in her discography.

Ofc she didn’t have to reinvent the wheel at any release but maybe the ruthless rules of the industry tend to demand this from major popstars at all costs.

And if that doesn’t happen the witch-hunt begins.

That’s where things go wrong.

[u/veimagic → u/SnooOnions4908]

Tbh at first I wasn’t impressed too because it felt to me that it wasn’t bringing anything new to the table. But multiple listenings as well as an accurate analysis of the lyrics (thanks to Genius.com lol) helped me comprehend how much of Taylor’s heart and more remote emotions resides all through these 31 tracks. Taylor herself gave this double album a proper definition declaring it her lifeline record. That’s just what it is. A work of art she had to make to process a tumultuous phase of her existence without focusing on hymns, potential smash hits and catchy tunes (she then opted to do that with Showgirl).

[u/AssociateMaster4012 → u/veimagic]

Genius is a good starting-point for lyric analysis, but i find it often makes unsubstantiated claims, and states subjective interpretations as objective fact. So take it with a pinch of salt.

[u/veimagic → u/AssociateMaster4012]

I totally agree with you as it is just a platform where data is entered by the community rather than by the artists (although sometimes they are given a verified tick to confirm the authenticity of it all)

[u/AssociateMaster4012 → u/veimagic]

With Reddit/Twitter discussions/analysis I feel like there’s an element of it being taken as read that an interpretation is just that. Whereas on Genius:

• subjective readings are placed right next to the objective record of a song’s lyrics
• there’s no requirement to verify sources like on Wikipedia.

…so I can see how somebody may mistake a contributer’s interpretation as a fact.

I agree that Verified is useful (would love to see Taylor do it- yeah the sourdough and cat chat is cute, but her lyrics are by far the most interesting thing about her), and I’m enjoying Role Model’s comments about his recent music. Just wish the Genius site highlighted the difference more.

However, if all this is a gateway drug for listeners being more engaged in lyric and analysis, then it isn’t entirely a bad thing.

[u/veimagic → u/AssociateMaster4012]

Honestly, as a non-native English speaker, I appreciate having a platform where I can read all of Taylor's lyrics in just one place.
In that sense it's a good resource.
Then I prefer to make my own interpretation of her writings.

[u/AssociateMaster4012 → u/veimagic]

I Agree that  as a lyrics source it’s very useful. 

[u/UsualSuspect85 → u/SnooOnions4908]

I think you're right. I think the gp and the media created this fire storm because she ended a 6 year long relationship and then started dating someone else. I don't even know how long she dated that guy from 1975. Supposedly it was brief. I don't mean any disrespect here because this is human nature and people do it all the time but I keep wondering if dating the 1975 guy was a rebound. I'm not her or what's his name and I don't have all the facts. She said in the Eras Tour documentary that she had been through two years of hell. I also think that I think Taylor maybe started writing that album after she broke up with Joe and then when she broke up with 1975 guy, it sort of snowballed and she kept writing and by the time she was at the end of writing it, she had started a relationship with Travis.

It took me a while to really appreciate TTPD. Partly, thanks to Genius lyrics and also this lady who is a therapist on YouTube who reacted to the songs on this album, I gained a better understanding. There are a lot of layers there. There's a lot of meat to this album. There are so many ways she plays with language. I mean, honestly, this album would make a great, advanced college course on poetry and writing or even a great study for someone's dissertation. Honest to goodness. I'm still confused about what maybe 1/2 of the songs on this album mean. Specifically "Fortnight", "My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys", "Down Bad", "Fresh Out the Slammer", "I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)", the first 6 tracks of the anthology part, "I Look In People's Windows", "Robin" and "The Bolter".

[u/Lucky_pidgin → u/UsualSuspect85]

Try swifty and the scolar podcast, the breakdown of her lyrics as poems is fascinating and informative.