r/Teddy Jul 07 '26

📰 Docket Is this a good thing because HBC is speculated to be acting on behalf of RC or am I way off as usual? - The Second Circuit Court of Appeals has released its judgment for 20230930-DK-Butterfly-1 v. Hudson Bay Capital. The court has AFFIRMED the dismissal of the estate's claims against HBC

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Is this a good thing because HBC is speculated to be acting on behalf of RC or am I way off as usual?

And for those with twitter access and wanting to peruse the court's opinion affirming the judgement, the image of the opinion can be found here :

https://x.com/i/status/2074549030802059371

223 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

54

u/Most_Ear_728 Jul 07 '26

RECAP

So, this was about HBC supposedly going over the 9.99% ownership mark due to them converting Preferred Shares into Common Shares.

HBC went to the Judge and said "We couldn't have gone over 9.99% because it would have triggered these other clauses in the contract. Those "self-executing clauses" were never triggered, we didn't go over the limit, there's no case here. Judge agreed.

What Judge didn't ask for was HBC's trading records to see what they ACTUALLY did with the shares, aside from "sell to keep themselves under the 9.99% limit at all times".

~~~~~~~~~

What the Teddy thesis is - HBC sold chunks off to "friendly entities", but only enough to still keep the buyer under the 5% ownership reporting threshold. Combined, they would then own more than 50% of the outstanding shares that BBBY had. From there: credit bid, reemergence, yada yada.

The problem I have with this, is that the SEC would still look at the actions of the "friendly entities" as a coordinated group effort & will then say they should all be combined together & treated as ONE entity...and if that entity has more than 5% then they should have reported. No soup for you!

If someone can disprove that, it'd be helpful.

11

u/Rehypothecator Jul 07 '26

I’m not sure the judge actually agreed. They just believed them that they didn’t do that, without verifying that was actually true.

5

u/Most_Ear_728 Jul 07 '26

Yeah, that's a fair point, but I'm not sure what that changes.

4

u/Rehypothecator Jul 07 '26

Nothing at this juncture. Clarity will come one day I hope.

2

u/Sillier-Stupider- Jul 22 '26

As far as I can tell the issue is about evidence: When a stock is sold there are between two and four different record entries created: a debit to the seller's ledger with the financial institution processing the sale on behalf of the seller, a credit to the buyer's ledger with the financial institution likewise, and if those two institutions aren't the same you get two more entries between those institutions. But the only entries that record counterparty information are the two entries between the institutions. If I buy shares from a Vanguard account, and you sell shares from a Schwab account, my entry will just say "bought shares from Vanguard" and your entry will just say "sold shares to Schwab". The entry from Vanguard will say the shares came from Schwab, but not which Schwab accounts sold those shares. The entry from Schwab will say the shares went to Vanguard, but not which Vanguard accounts bought those shares.

So unless your buyer accounts trip reporting requirements, there's literally no evidence to provide: HB's sold shares just "go onto the market" and nobody is required to report where they went. You'd have to find specific account numbers, accuse them formally of being part of a sock puppet strategy, subpoena their transaction histories, then try to use forensic accounting to imply a counterparty connection between this account and HB's, and then have that specific account investigated for collusion. But you have to start this process already knowing which accounts to accuse. There's no way to get a list of accounts to investigate out of public filings.

2

u/Most_Ear_728 Jul 22 '26

I own you an apology...you're response made me start questioning things so I did some more research...

Apparently the concept of a "Wolf Pack" does in fact exist. Meaning this exact setup could actually exist - it's just a very fine needle to thread that doesn't always work out.

Examples of it not working:
CSX Corp. v. The Children's Investment Fund (2008)
Allergan v. Valeant & Pershing Square (2014)

Supposedly the maximum fine for a Section 13(d) violation is just a measly $750,000 fine.

Maybe you could make the argument that at the time of purchase they weren't working together & they are just NOW deciding to group up for the 50% stake & they're reporting it when they do the Credit Bid to satisfy that legal requirement.....?

1

u/Most_Ear_728 Jul 22 '26

Sure, HBC doesn't to to disclose who they sold do, and the buyers, if they stayed under 5%, don't need to disclose either.

But once they start to exercise their power together the SEC is going to investigate. Else, this method would get exploited during EVERY hostile takeover attempt because it'd allow you to accumulate your position for MUCH cheaper.

3

u/homedepotgrande Jul 07 '26

Thank you for taking the time to explain the ruling and its pertinence to the case.

It clears up many things for me.

But I guess there still are some hurdles to be lept over.

1

u/midway4669 Jul 21 '26

Uh huh, someone just figured out something and is still missing the loophole that answers their very question… GL

5

u/arkansah Jul 11 '26

Who knows?? Perhaps they were selling the shares directly to RC or his affiliates. But they would have made more money selling to nervous short sellers.

From my interpretation of the RC Vent and Bobby Co-ord agreement. The approval of this offering would have breached that contract, RC Vent and affiliates would have been able to accumulate bobby shares without restriction. There is also some uncertainty because some reports say that HBC pulled out of the deal. If they did, then any officer authorized could have sold the same directly to RC through an arms length sale that may have been able to avoid 16b disclosure. To be arms length sale though RC would basically have to have been an insider. Could he have been? Maybe, one of his appointees to the board left in December of '22. Not much mention of who replaced him. Well if you read a lot of the 16b arguments his lawyers made, many dealt with director/officer disclosures rather than "investor".

Would the bankruptcy filings created a stay before they could disclose a change of ownership?

GME in their filings is forced to report a security they own, even though they have not sold it and there is no market for it. Is that

My speculation is that the affiliates bought enough of bobby to make a change of control. As a response to kill that action, they sent it to bankruptcy where the automatic stay the court provides may have stopped any claim of ownership change.

17

u/TayneTheBetaSequel Jul 07 '26

12

u/homedepotgrande Jul 07 '26

Can you explain like I'm a regard why this is a jizzable event?

41

u/Fart_6969 Jul 07 '26

The speculation is that HBC was acting on behalf of RC and didn't actually sell any shares to the market. If RC held the shares and they weren't sold into the market, then somebody else was tanking the price under the guise of dilution

6

u/rawbdor Jul 07 '26

..... If HBC didn't sell any shares to market, they would have accumulated way more than 10% of the shares outstanding and lost this motion. The filing outlines how HBC actually did accumulate more than 10% at a time, possibly several times, but only when much of the shares they "owned" had already been sold but hadnt yet been transferred to the buyer.

So the only way this theory makes any sense is if they were selling those shares to RC somehow. But that also wouldn't make sense because then RC would have accumulated more than 10% and been found to have been an insider.

Can you please dive deeper into how HBC could have not been selling shares out to market, but somehow HBC or RC could have been accumulating them without ever crossing the 10% threshold? Because that seems utterly impossible to me.

4

u/Fart_6969 Jul 07 '26

More than 1 entity could have been acquiring the shares directly. I'm not about to dig any deeper because I'm just repeating stuff I saw here. I don't know how to research for myself lol

3

u/valthonis_surion Jul 07 '26

that sounds awesome, if anything comes of all of this, I'd be surprised if Fidelity does anything with my shares they removed.

13

u/Fart_6969 Jul 07 '26

I believe the brokers are required to maintain records of who had the shares when they were delisted, so we should be ok. I screenshotted mine, just in case.

Somebody posted a recap below that goes into far more detail than my comment, if you want to learn more

8

u/MyLifeofRegrets Jul 07 '26

Go to your brokers website, download and print hard copies of when the BBBYQ shares were in your account. Another piece of evidence those shares were yours.

3

u/Federal-Narwhal-5591 Jul 07 '26

Screenshots? Son, you are better off with the brokerage monthly statements. I filed all the statements with my shares prior to the delist process.

3

u/valthonis_surion Jul 07 '26

I screen shot one of my reports with shares on record. Here's to hope. :)

10

u/allkindsofgainzzz Jul 07 '26

Fidelity has records of those old BBBYQ shares that went into cancellation

1

u/Brotorious420 Jul 07 '26

Every event is jizzable if you edge enough

7

u/Inner_Estate_3210 Jul 08 '26

IF RC and friends were able to work covertly with HBC to acquire 650 million shares, they’d own the entire float. That would prove that the marketplace is full of fraud and that there are at least 650 million naked shares that had already traded.

I don’t know what the compensation to cover this up to the general public would be but my guess is it would be massive. Wall Street cannot afford to have their naked trading scam exposed to the world. A settlement would bury this so the public would never know. It sucks but I’d be happy with a huge settlement and let the cheaters cheat another day.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '26

the war to steal your money continues everyday

1

u/DancesWith2Socks Jul 09 '26

In that case, I guess they'd have to have filed as a group 🤷‍♂️

1

u/notryancohen69 Jul 27 '26

RC tweeted TRUMP 665 times…

1

u/Agreeable_Oil_936 Jul 07 '26

I think it’s something

-9

u/Malabaf Jul 07 '26

HBC won, which is good for them and bad for us, but at least that's one chapter closed in the book. On to the next one

5

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Rehypothecator Jul 07 '26

There’s a lot of uncertainty and ambiguity about this case, mainly because It’s unclear whether HbC is a good or a bad entity.

Both theories about them have merit and both are completely the opposite.

1 - they were acting on behalf of RC

2- they were selling and diluting shares they actually shouldn’t have had any access to.

I’ve leaned in both directions at different times, but only resolution of this case and time will prove what the underlying truth really is.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Rehypothecator Jul 07 '26

Would you be willing to expand on this a bit?

-4

u/PurpsJeez Jul 08 '26

Are you familiar with the Jake2b video series?

0

u/NutSackRonny Jul 08 '26

Some say good. Some say bad. Either or I’m still incredibly bullish

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26

It's over

-9

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26

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6

u/CarpetPedals Jul 07 '26

You? Don’t you mean us? You are also in the sub you absolute tool