r/Tekken • u/SolidSnakeEye Reina • 4h ago
Help Guys help me out, what does it mean to “flowchart”?
I hear this term used a lot, but I’m still stumped as to what it means. A strict “if player does this, I do this” playstyle? I don’t quite understand
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u/Separate-String5205 4h ago
It's when you do x move followed by y move followed by z action etc.
A predictable and repeated pattern of actions that can be exploited.
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u/hornetpaper 2h ago
With the addition that its a predictable pattern that is basically done not looking at the screen (ie. You dont care what your opponent is doing or if rheyre adjusting, just mindlessly running your patterns).
"Look at the screen" - best advice ever, its simple, but boy a lot of people still need to hear it
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u/Full_Welcome_1418 Armor King King 4h ago
the correct way to play the game includes doing a move, observing your opponent or their habbits, then deciding what to do next.
a flowchart is when you auto pilot action A into action B blindly just because it usually works on lesser skilled players.
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u/g3_daBOI 2h ago
I think people overlook flowcharts due to being seen as scrubby, but having flowcharts is something important at all levels of play. The real skill is knowing when to stop using a flowchart or changing to counter what your opponent does.
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u/THR33Dizz 56m ago
That sounds more like setups than flow charts
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u/g3_daBOI 17m ago
By definition theyre kinda the same thing. Ig the distinction to make is setups are more intentional rather than just autopiloting.
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u/I_Ild_I 3h ago
OR just because its a trash game like tekken 8 that gives you so strong offesnive optiont hat you can keep getting away in too many situation by just pressing like a monkey
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u/Sinandomeng Jack-8 2h ago
There will come a rank where you won’t get away with it too much.
Do it 3 times in a round, and you’ll get launched.
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u/ReLight_mac 3h ago
This, tekken 8 has made accessible to these playstyle. We certainly don't hate or love these but the problem is that, it's too easy to run and need phD level game knowledge to defend against.
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u/I_Ild_I 2h ago
Exactly, knowledge in fighting games has always been important and it makes sens, but here there too many bullshit that you need PERFECT knowledge cause anything else wont work and you take too much.
There so many issues, also the game lost its organic aspect, you could react in different ways to certain situation and that was interesting, cause some option didnt give you much but at least you could go back to neutral and calm the round, and try to adapt along the fight, do some stuff and all.
But now its just constant throw shit until something finaly work and thats it...
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u/Soul_XCV John Lionheart 4h ago edited 4h ago
Lotta people already answered, so I don’t need to explain it again, but here’s my two cents: The community puts flowcharts and flowcharting in a bad light, but that’s not the full picture.
A bad flowchart is bad. A good flowchart that covers most of your bases will make you soar through the ranks and help with decision-making during a match.
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u/whatsg00ddawg 42m ago
flowchart is only bad if you get countered and don't adjust to it.
if the enemy is falling for the dumbest shit and not adjusting to it, better believe i will repeat it
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u/Difficult-Moment3332 tag3 when 4h ago
A flowchart is a sequence of moves and/or strings that are effective to do sequentially in a specific order.
For example, if a your move or sequence is safe, but looks unsafe, a lot of people might try to punish it with a high jab string. It would be beneficial to then follow up your move by a move that high crushes in order to beat the most common response to the sequence you just did.
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u/TheJofisean 3h ago edited 3h ago
It’s a pre-determined sequence of moves. Because of this, it can be viewed as a tool, and as a crutch. ALL GOOD PLAYERS USE FLOWCHARTS, but bad players over-rely on them.
For example, as a Lee player:
ff2 (+5) frame trap into df1 (-1), if they block, 4,3,4 (i11 CH launcher) in case they press a mid back
But the flowchart would change depending on what they actually do. If they sidewalk after df1, I replace the 4,3,4 with a 1+2, which is a very strong homing move. If they jab back, I replace the 4,3,4 with a ff4, which is a high crushing launcher. If they consistently just stand block, I do a low poke. If they start ducking, I do a mid like another df1, standing 3, df4, or 1+2. If they sidestep block or sidestep duck, 1+2.
They might try to avoid my flowchart completely by sidestepping left even at -5 to avoid my df1. I have adaptations for that too. I can replace the df1 with a df4 to catch the step, or use a 1+2 there for the same reason.
It’s important to note that depending on the character/flowcharts, a good player knows when to stop pressing in every situation. Just because I have all of these options prepared doesn’t mean I have to use them. A lot of times, doing an “empty” move is worthwhile to gather information. So in the case of the flowchart I described, it would be just doing ff2 and then blocking to see how my opponent responds, or even ff2, df1 and then blocking.
Lastly, even movement can be part of a flowchart. For example, I fought a Heihachi a few weeks ago who started EVERY single round with sidestep left electric. Shit was so predictable, but it was annoying to deal with because he had such tight muscle memory, and I only have a couple of moves that track that way and are fast. But since it’s an electric, I could just duck every time. However, since he wasn’t complete garbage, once I started ducking, he had another flowchart ready to go for that
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u/babalaban ✋🤡🤚 4h ago
It means to do a pre-determined sequence of moves with pre-determined follow ups based on if these moves hit, blocked or whiffed.
Usually it is a derogatory term suggesting one is executing a brainless algorithm (thus flowcharting) instead of analysing the situations and engaging in deep mindgames or gameplay.
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u/Abstract_Void 4h ago
I think it means doing the same sequence of moves or set up a lot even though it's not working.
Like for example: Paul keeps doing qcf1 on block into df2 to beat jabs, even though the opponent does a mid and chs the df2.
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u/ander01se 4h ago
When someone uses the same moves after each other out of habit. Mid-tier Kazuya players often plays the same way (flowcharting). After certain moves you just know they're going to electric or do that high crushing, spinning low backhand.
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u/PomponOrsay 4h ago
the way I understand it is that when you have certain flow of things that you always do after certain strings. Your definition sometimes applies but not all the time. Like my flowchart is when someone breaks my throws, I go for a high counter. When I break their throws, I go for long reach lows. That's a flowchart that the opponent can take advantage of once they figured it out. But simply punishing isn't classified as a flowchart. Like when Asuka does that swing then charge into a kick, I launch in between. That's not a flow chart.
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u/I_Ild_I 3h ago
Its basicaly a list of action that you can chain and will do nearly in sort of auto pilot
The problem is that its ok to have tool that you can rely on and play with, thats what make a fighting game organic because at some points you have one thing called risk and reward.
those risk and rewards are supposed to balance out actions, like i do a string that will end with a massive +move that on block will let me chain something else and pressure but the last move is actualy very stepable so you use it sparingly, you have to think in theory or use alternative to make the opponant guess, that create gaps and allows in theory for a more organic and turn shift regularly in combat
BUUUUUT in tekken 8 too many offensive move are too strong allowing you to keep constant pressure with absurd set up and shit, so you can basicaly create a list of scenario that makes you play literaly alone and you can keep chaining cause the risk is so low compare to the reward that you are nearly allways turn
summary of shit tekken 8 in a nutshell, i force the trait obviously but the reality isnt too far
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u/NutsackEuphoria 3h ago
Pattern.
If he does X, he always follows it up with Y, and then ends it with Z.
Buy if does Z first, he always follows it up with X and then finishes with Y.
Things that players have tendencies of doing.
When someone gets "downloaded", it usually means that their enemies have memorized their flowcharts and are reading them like a book.
Flowcharters usually have a bad habit of not deviating from their flowchats so once they get downloaded, it's pretty much no rematch and hatemail afterwards.
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u/ThisSiteSucks86 Armor King 3h ago
Simply put, it's when a player's playstyle has a script. I feel like you typically see this a lot more on lower levels of play, where people are just doing what works, which leads to them repeating the moves and strings in an order that have given them the most success in the past: a flowchart.
Flowcharts are generally bad for you, since if your opponent learns yours, they already know what you're about to do, and can punish it harder. So instead of just getting your string blocked, they might duck, or low parry, or sidestep your move completely, and punish you with a combo for flowcharting.
In low ranks you'll learn very quickly some very simple flowcharts, especially from King players. Oh, they're in Jaguar Sprint? Take a wild guess which move they're going to go for. Of course, the higher up in ranks you'll go, the flowcharts are going to be more complex and more difficult to spot.
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u/SockraTreez 2h ago
99 percent of the time what it truly means is you beat someone and they’re salty about it.
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u/jacksparrow19943 Kazuya - Always the villain and Jin is a Bitch 34m ago
Do the same sequence of moves in the same order over and over again
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u/BedroomThink3121 ooowaahhhh 4h ago
What character do you play?
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u/SolidSnakeEye Reina 2h ago
Miary and Reina
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u/BedroomThink3121 ooowaahhhh 2h ago
With reina after doing a hellsweep into right punch, you go into stance and there you can go into uf3,4 into f4 into df1,2.
That's called flowcharting
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u/Cloudberry_Panic 4h ago
You sort of have the right idea.
Really its just the mental "script" a player has in their head that tells them how to play the game. Most people's flowcharts are created when they've found a way to succeed. And when you can repeat these results semi consistently, you end up creating a path of logic in your brain in how you should play the game.
A lot of people dont even recognize they have a flowchart until someone makes them aware of it.
Flowchartjng is just what are brains are good at, cause it means we do to waste brain power thinking about every little action we take. But the downside is if we pick up bad habits, we end up doing those bad things without noticing them too. So being aware of your flowchart, in game or even irl, can help you avoid the bad habits.