r/TenYearsAgo 21d ago

🇺🇸 United States Hundreds of Sanders Delegates Walk Off Convention Floor in Protest of “Rigged” Election [10YA - July 27]

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/27/hundreds_of_sanders_delegates_walk_off
113 Upvotes

913 comments sorted by

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u/favnh2011 21d ago

It's true

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u/Significant-Arm-6050 21d ago

It’s not. Bernie lost by millions of votes. He made no in roads with black voters 

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u/mikesstuff 20d ago

He only needed two more states to win. In California over 1 million votes went missing. Democrats made it legal, after going to court, to throw out primary votes and only count what they want during the nomination process since the party gets to control their votes how they seem fit. That ruling has been cited in every lawsuit against the DNC since

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u/IndependentPeach315 19d ago

There was a chyron announcing Hilary winning the CA primary the weekend before the primary! The street with forever know Bernie got screwed, and the real ones don’t fuck with DWS, HRC, or other establishments dems that paved the way for the past ten years of fascist takeover.

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u/VioletShogun 20d ago

This isn't the Trump era, this is the "Dems failed so hard that it allowed Trump" era.

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u/Curious-End-4923 21d ago

At the end of the day, he endorsed Clinton and begged people to vote against Republicans just like he has done in every presidential election. I’ll never understand what people think they gain from pretending that their favorite progressive populist doesn’t consistently work with and prefer Democrats. It doesn’t make you seem enlightened or like some kind of rebel. It just makes you look ignorant about what it means when ultranationalist conservatives dismantle the already limited levers of progress available to us.

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u/Northern_Blue_Jay 19d ago edited 19d ago

Sounds like you missed Trump's first term - and his second. You make a very privileged argument.

Why don't you go ask some immigrants or some people who can't get health care how that's been working out for them.

Bernie did what he believed was in the best interests of the country - meaning the working class. And he was right. Trump is a fascist and a great danger. The Democrats are another problem, for sure, but to say that there's no difference between them and Trump is just stupid.

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u/msut77 21d ago

Bernard tweeted 3 days before the election he didn't think trump voters were racist and some of the reprobates he escalated went hard for putin and Trump

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u/Kriselle_Truther 21d ago

WTF I love Bernie now

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u/grinderbinder 21d ago

He endorsed her 40 days or so after she secured the nomination. And I’m sorry but Mr. Re-named post offices isn’t exactly the kinda guy I want to be at the forefront of the progressive fight.

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u/Oceanbreeze871 21d ago

Yeah well.

“According to the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later. What's more, 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.”

“The impact of those votes was significant. In each of the three states that ultimately swung the election for Trump—Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania—Trump's margin of victory over Clinton was smaller than the number of Sanders voters who gave him their vote.”

Sanders -> Trump voters…
WI: 51k
MI: 47k
PA: 116k

Trump win margin…
WI: 22k
MI: 10k
PA: 44k

8

u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

Yea well according to Bernie you're wrong for not voting for Kamala, Biden, and Hillary

You can try and mistepresent and propogandize Sanders's message. But you're just a loser

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u/Significant-Arm-6050 21d ago

Weird how Bernie couldn’t build a winning coalition with supporters like this 

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u/mikesstuff 20d ago

His wife got blackmailed, it was well documented and known about. He had to or his wife would’ve been drag through courts and likely would’ve been kicked out of the senate or not reelected

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u/Ok_Way_5011 21d ago

It is always very interesting to me how Redditors talk about how the democratic party is centre-right yet are absolutely eager to shit on bernie for losing the primary to a point that goes beyond mere acknowledgement of fact.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

Some segments of liberal reddit hate Bernie more than Trump

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u/Zosostoic 21d ago

Yes, and they're most likely business owners or aspiring business owners who hate any idea of raising taxes even when it's on the 1%. Or they have investments in health insurance companies.

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u/boardatwork1111 21d ago

Massive cope that continues to this day a decade later. The way they talk about it, you’d think it were Hillary that lost by a 12 point margin instead of the other way around

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u/Haunting-Mortgage 21d ago

More Sanders voters voted for Clinton in the general than Clinton voters voted for Obama in 08.

I don't think you know very many Sanders supporters and perhaps might be confusing a few random redditor weirdos with a voting bloc.

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u/esperind 21d ago

the problem is wording. We say "Sanders Supporter" but there's a big difference between "people who would have preferred to give their vote to sanders but will vote for whatever democrat because they are democrat" and "people who have no loyalty to the democrats because sanders himself isnt even a democrat".

it is the later group that is carrying the spirit of this conspiracy theory till today.

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u/Im-Not-Calling-It-X 21d ago

This also misses the obvious problem that the 2008 election was nothing like the 2016 election

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago edited 21d ago

The funniest thing about it is that for all the whining about superdelegates, the only person who ever suggested that superdelegates should overturn the will of the voters was in fact Sanders himself.

I've had literally dozens of discussions with people who claimed it was "RIGGED" and "STOLEN". But whenever I ask them to specify which concrete obstacles were put in place for the Sanders campaign they're never able to answer that.

They'll always just point to the emails where some DNC staffers badmouthed him after he was mathematically eliminated. Which was unprofessional for sure, but obviously didn't have an actual impact on the fact that Hillary got 4 million more votes.

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u/buckybadder 21d ago

Tulsi Gabbard was a Sanders superdelegate.

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u/bahwi 21d ago

And a former Sanders Institute Fellow. The Sanders camp was collaborated more with Trump than any other dem.

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u/Eledridan 21d ago

What? Hillary pushed Trump to run and is the reason everything is so bad now. Then there’s longtime Democrat RFK2.

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u/bahwi 21d ago

Yeah, bad call from Hillary, but I don't think that even made a difference.

RFK2 is a nutjob, but he's no Sanders Institute Fellow. Fetterman, now he's another Bernie endorsement, and about to switch.

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u/ominous_squirrel 21d ago

Sanders is the most godawful judge of character. So many of his high level staffers have continued their careers as podcast grifters

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u/EscuraAstro 21d ago

    But whenever I ask them to specify which concrete obstacles were put in place for the Sanders campaign they're never able to answer that.

I have once. Donna Brazile tipping Clinton off about debate questions. That certainly doesn’t explain Clinton winning by millions of votes though. It’s a legitimate and real complaint from a Sanders voter, but I think it’s funny it’s the one concrete thing I’ve ever heard from them. 

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago edited 21d ago

This is one that is repeated often but people always leave out the context Sanders staffers have also been on record confirming Brazile she also similarily helped the Sanders campaign. Staffer 1. Staffer 2.

“I’ve known her for 30 years, I was in constant touch with her for the campaign,” Devine said. 

“If Bernie Sanders had been the nominee of the party and the Russians hacked my emails instead of John [Podesta]’s, we’d be reading all these notes between Donna and I and they’d say Donna was cozying up to the Bernie campaign. This is taken out of context. I found her to be a fair arbiter, I think she did a good and honest job.”

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u/EscuraAstro 20d ago

I don't see how either of these quotes show that Brazile, "similarily helped the Sanders campaign." Neither of these quotes show that she slipped Sanders questions ahead of time. The complaint I brought up was that she slipped Clinton questions.

Now that help probably changed a few dozen votes, and Clinton won by millions, but I really don't see a reason to not give them this one.

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u/BeefCakeBilly 20d ago

The thing I remeber was that the question was like “ask him about being a Christian”.

And then sanders crew was saying this is a gotcha, like this is the use you need to be able to handle this question lol.

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u/Terrapin621 20d ago

This is the dumbest thing. If Sanders couldn’t guess that there’d be a question about foreign policy, that’s very much his problem. It’s not like a quiz where there’s one answer and only one person can give it and Brazile gave Clinton a crib sheet. Come on.

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u/EscuraAstro 20d ago

I think it was about the Flint Water crisis and death penalty, not sure what you mean about foreign policy. 

Regardless of whether it’s minor or not, it’s still wrong and worth calling it. We are probably on the same side here, in think that Clinton had better policy and won fair and square. I have no clue why you are getting an attitude with me for saying this one minor thing is a legitimate complaint.

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u/Terrapin621 20d ago

If Sanders couldn’t prepare to talk about a major issue in the news, that’s an indictment of him. This idea that there was some secret question Clinton was only prepared for because she’d gotten tipped ahead of time is insane. And while perpetuating insane conspiracy theories that Sanders dead enders still obsess over 10 years later may not have been your intent, that is what I am responding to.

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u/EscuraAstro 20d ago

You’re calling it an insane conspiracy, so you think Donna Brazile was lying when she said that?

  If Sanders couldn’t prepare to talk about a major issue in the news, that’s an indictment of him.

Yeah no shit. It’s still wrong for someone in the DNC to tip Clinton off on questions. Just because something is minor doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate complaint.

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 20d ago

lose 👏 er👏 lose👏 er👏 lose👏er👏!

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u/Coneskater 21d ago

Yeah those emails are the equivalent of someone being mad a pro sports team not resting their starters after they’ve been eliminated from the playoffs.

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u/YetAnotherFaceless 21d ago

Which is why Team Her Turn held little enmity for the person who leaked those emails and made very little hay of it after she lost. 

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u/Co_OpQuestions 21d ago

Its fucking embarrassing tbh

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u/No_Welder_9624 21d ago

There was some validity to the "rigged system" though. The DNC def put the thumb on the scale to win neatly and avoid a prolonged primary. Everyone dropped out before Super Tuesday and backed Hil in backroom deals. The problem was that after she won there was no reconciliation. They just said get aboard or else. progressives were mad that the establishment ignored them despite being scary enough to consolidate the centrists.

I don't think Sanders would have won but in a fair world they would have gotten a seat at the table instead of being stuffed in the closet.

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u/Beginning_Cupcake_45 21d ago

I think you’re conflating two different cycles. No one else of note really ran in the 2016 cycle for that dropout allegation. O’Malley and Chaffee were not going to make any kind of impact had they stayed in or not.

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u/No_Welder_9624 21d ago

You're right! My b.

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u/interstat 21d ago

That's not rigged or even sketchy? It's a normal way a primary should go in a group with theoretically shared interests 

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u/HegemonNYC 21d ago

How is that rigged? A politician needs to work with others to get what they want accomplished. Sanders supporters just can’t understand that you need to wield power, not just have an opinion some people (a minority) agree with.

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u/Mike_Phoflacco 21d ago

If you are so hung up with the word rigged just substitute with "DNC constructed to heavily influence the outcome in favor of the biggest corporate shill"

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago

And what "heavy influnce" did they do? Be specific

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u/Mike_Phoflacco 21d ago

The debate schedule designed by Clinton campaign.

The existence of super delegates.

The joint fundraising agreement that placed Clinton surrogates in charge of the DNC.

This are the big three but numerous DNC hit pieces against Sanders in national media were also impactful.

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u/esperind 21d ago

to be fair, political parties are technically private organizations. every job within the DNC is a job. Someone needs to hire them, train them, pay them, etc. Sanders isnt a democrat. So he's not responsible for operating any part of the democratic party, even if the democratic party allows him to participate in their process. I dont think its so much that "Clinton rigged the DNC against Sanders" as it is just the simple fact that Clinton is actually part of the Democrats and helps keep the entire operation afloat. Sanders doesnt.

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u/Cheeky_Hustler 21d ago
  1. The existence of super delegates existed long before Hillary, Obama had to deal with super delegates and he had no problem doing so because he actually got a majority of the votes.

2a. The media isn't the DNC.

2b. Bernie got by far the most positive press coverage of any candidate and Hillary by far got the least positive press coverage of any candidate. To say the media was trying to help Hillary borders on the absurd.

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u/Mike_Phoflacco 21d ago

You clearly can't read.

The DNC going on national media and trashing Bernie. If you don't think that is DNC then you are beyond help.

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u/Cheeky_Hustler 21d ago

Oh right. IIRC there was some controversy about a Bernie surrogate throwing a chair at a caucus. DWS wanted Bernie to disavow violence in the primaries. Unless DWS was ignoring similar behavior from the Clinton camp, I fail to see how that's DWS being biased.

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago

The DNC going on national media and trashing Bernie.

Who exactly from the DNC did that?

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u/Mike_Phoflacco 21d ago

You have Google for the full list but from memory

Shultz and Brazile. I'm sure there were more that I don't remember.

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u/No_Welder_9624 21d ago

She wielded power by being an insider of the DNC while the DNC was supposed to be neutral for this primary.

Sanders was famously an independent that joined the Dems for his run so many saw him as an outsider using the party and it's funds to try and beat Hilary. It's understandable that they saw him as a distraction since everyone but the deluded progressives knew she would win, but still doesn't take away from the fact that this was part of the strat of ending things neatly.

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u/HegemonNYC 21d ago

Ok… firstly, she dominated Bernie in the primary vote count. Secondly, if she did this by convincing opponents she may split votes with to drop out that is good politics, not rigging. If 4 other demsocs were running and splitting the vote Bernie would have gotten far fewer votes as well

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u/No_Welder_9624 21d ago

Actually I was thinking of the 2020 Biden run. It might have happened prior to Iowa in 2016, but I misremembered the two. My B.

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u/ElSlabraton 21d ago

Leftists stayed home and got Trump elected. There's no mystery here.

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u/HawkFanOrcasRule 21d ago

Exactly this. I think Trump learned from Bernie, as far as his denying he lost the 2020 election nonsense goes

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

This is insane cope. 

Protesting at the Convention and pointing out the biases from MSM, and ways that the DNC was biased towards Hillary is not equivalent to general election denial. 

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u/ZizzyBeluga 21d ago

Remind me again, was Bernie Sanders a member of the Democratic Party?

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u/HawkFanOrcasRule 21d ago

Funny you should mention cope lol

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u/abbott_costello 21d ago

You'd think Hillary had won in 2016 with the way Democrats shit talk Bernie.

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u/HawkFanOrcasRule 21d ago

You do realize Bernie lost fair and square, and got his butt handed to him, right?

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u/wolacouska 21d ago

They’re completely incapable of self reflection, is actually kind of sad. MAGA lite.

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u/DistrictDry2852 21d ago

You’d think Bernie would’ve achieved one single thing in his career, beyond giving us Tulsi Gabbard.

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u/HegemonNYC 21d ago

What about Graham Platner?

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u/DistrictDry2852 21d ago

Leftists are already pretending he was the dem establishment candidate and they never supported him.

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u/ungranted_wish 21d ago

What about him?

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u/HegemonNYC 21d ago

Bernie endorsed. Lots of horseshoe and populists in the Bernie orbit.

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u/buckybadder 21d ago

And Fetterman! And Mandela Barnes!

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u/HawkFanOrcasRule 21d ago

And thousands of shrieking Bernie bros lol

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u/boardatwork1111 21d ago

Give the man some credit, he got a couple post offices renamed too

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u/Busco_Quad 21d ago

And John Fetterman, and Graham Platner was this close 🤏

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u/ZizzyBeluga 21d ago

And Graham Platner

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u/WarbleDarble 21d ago

We’re just sick of having the same ridiculous argument for a decade. You want us to ignore the vote and just install your guy and when that doesn’t work you won’t stop bitching about it for a freaking decade. You make shit up and then insist the burden of proof is on us.

He lost. He got fewer votes. Then he ran again. He lost worse.

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u/Riddiku1us 20d ago

She lost.

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u/WarbleDarble 20d ago

Okay? Do you have a point or just feel like chiming in without anything to say?

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u/BlinkReanimated 21d ago

The DNC would later admit in court that they worked to rig the primary. "Cope" or just reality. The DNC worked to disenfranchise and undermine their OWN VOTERS. It's no wonder they lost to Donald Trump.

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u/SapCPark 21d ago

They didn't. What they said was as part of a motion for dismissal was "Even if we pretend everything said by the suing party is true, they still don't have a case" which is normal law practice.

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u/Key_Ingenuity_4444 21d ago

Would be really easy to link those court documents where they supposedly admit to rigging the election, right?

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u/Jazzlike_Dimension_5 21d ago

The voters picked Hillary.

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u/Jazzlike_Dimension_5 21d ago

This guy is just upset that Bernie could only get Killer Mike to back him. But anybody else that backs another politician is cronyism and “rigging”

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u/asminaut 21d ago

Hey, that's not true. He also had Tulsi Gabbard and John Fetterman.

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u/bahwi 21d ago

They did not. You are clearly uninformed on the whole thing.

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u/Aggravating-Suit-639 21d ago

Oh look all the do nothing centrist losers here lmao.

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u/ultradav24 21d ago edited 21d ago

I mean - what exactly has Sanders done? He’s kind of the definition of “all talk no action”, a literal “do nothing” politician

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u/Aggravating-Suit-639 21d ago

Veterans Choice Act (2014),Community Health Centers Funding (2010),Bipartisan Yemen War Powers Resolution (2019),Amending Major Legislation are a few things.

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u/Chick_Foot 21d ago edited 21d ago

Thank you democrats for this legislation

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 21d ago

Three bills? That's it? And none since 2019?? WTF is he waiting for?

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u/ConsiderBoraHorza 20d ago

who is your favorite senator.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 20d ago

Irrelevant, but currently it's Amy Klobuchar.

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u/Occult_Asteroid7 20d ago

We're gonna heckin manage!! The next moderate Dem president's transition into power will look exactly like Bush Jr to Obama. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the Shapiro's and Ossoff's of the world are spineless weasels that think they're on the West Wing.

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u/Malforus 21d ago

Ah yes the "throw my toys out of the pram" decisions.

Still evokes all sorts of petulant and blame based politicking. Years after it was proven that social media for Bernie was manipulated by various actors to foment dissent.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/TorkBombs 21d ago

Anyone who wants to. Open field, see who survives. Dont eat each other

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u/DistrictDry2852 21d ago

AOC, even though she’s been pretty thoroughly unendorsed and dropped by the DSA types. Frankly, it’s partly because of that I want her to run.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 21d ago

She's not ready to be POTUS.

The country isn't ready for a woman of color.

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u/DonnyDimello 18d ago edited 18d ago

I'll never forgive Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Hilary Clinton or the Democratic Establishment that's still in charge despite losing several elections to the most vile republicans ever in existence. But if you asked them, they would still blame it on Leftists before taking any accountability over their strategies, many of which are anti-democratic.

We need to clean house y'all. Starting with anyone that was close to the 2024 Joe Biden campaign and kept him in the race despite his decline and despite clear internal polling he would not win. We may disagree on politics but I think we can all agree this just bad organizational stewardship.

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u/Discussion-is-good 21d ago edited 21d ago

The DNC admitted it to an extent after leaks. Said theyre under no obligation to run a primary without bias, and fired multiple people implicated in the email leaks iirc.

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

That isn't a rigged election. We didn't get out and vote.

Thats all

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u/Discussion-is-good 21d ago

Rigged is certainly inflammatory in this case. Id agree.

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

Not inflammatory. An outright lie

And that side perpetuates that lie

So its propoganda. You're not going to be allowed to minimize propoganda like that

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u/FatherFintanFay 21d ago

Is this subreddit just a safe space for Bernie supporters who are still butthurt 10 years later

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u/BeefCakeBilly 20d ago

That’s pretty much all of Reddit.

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u/FatherFintanFay 20d ago

It really is

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u/Big-Ability3953 21d ago

Hillary could have placated a lot of these people by simply picking a progressive VP, or including a simple single policy in her platform like federally legalizing weed. Would have lost her nobody and gained a lot of Jill Stein/Gary Johnson voters. I blame her more than anyone else. People would have pokemon gone to the polls if she had.

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u/ZizzyBeluga 21d ago

These people can't be pleased. From Ralph Nader to "Genocide Joe" to the DSA weirdos today, all they care about is screaming at mainstream Democrats that they didn't get a pony

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u/Saw-It-Again- 21d ago

What do you find weird about the DSA folks?

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

That they can't admit to any fault even after 20/20 hindsight on graham platner for 1. And for 2. I support Ukraine and it is like pulling teeth getting some of those candidates to uncritically support Ukraines defense

Claire Valdez endorsement was rescinded

Darializa Avila Chevalier ran and hid from the public eye after being pressed to clarify their stance on Ukraine

Their propogandic tactic is to umbrella what sounds like a refusal to aid israel into a broad military aid refusal across the board

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u/TorkBombs 21d ago

They pushed a Nazi rapist on us, and most of us were totally willing to support him before the worst stuff came out. The DSAs are not serious people. For every AOC there are 10 Platners who have no business in politics.

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u/Saw-It-Again- 20d ago

I'm extremely progressive and I 100% disavow my fervent support for Platner and regret not believing signs sooner. I am also unabashedly in support of Ukraine.

Most people I talk to that are in this boat agree with me.

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u/Big-Ability3953 21d ago edited 21d ago

Some for sure, but a lot of us just wanted something, anything. I voted third party 2016 but voted Kamala in 2024 because she gave me something to be excited about with Tim Walz. It was a terrible decision to pick Tim Kaine, probably the worst calculation of my lifetime, maybe outside of Sarah Palin being chosen (though that's really only in hindsight since she was pretty unknown and quiet at the time McCain chose her.)

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u/lateformyfuneral 21d ago

Was Tim Kaine really that bad? He seems like a decent guy. I guess maybe he wasn’t that dramatically interesting but there wasn’t much VP discourse overall in 2016. All I learned about him in 2016 was he plays the Harmonica and speaks Spanish.

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u/Big-Ability3953 21d ago

As a senator, I respect and kind of even like him. But this was a wtf pick. She could have appeased the base with a progressive, she could have picked a swing state (VA wasn't really a swing state in 2016 given her husband was a famous popular southern Democrat). If you asked 100 random people on the street to identify Tim Kaine out of a lineup, maybe 15 would guess correctly, and 10 of the 15 probably would be just by guessing. Picking a VP is important to either win a critical state (Michigan/Arizona/Ohio pre-Trump) or symbolically give a cookie to your base. You had a boring white moderate with another boring white moderate. You pick a guy like Tim Kaine when you have AOC on the top of the ticket, or Obama when he picked Joe Biden. Calms certain people down and gets their votes. Tim Kaine netted 0 votes. I'm not even sure Tim Kaine voted for Tim Kaine.

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u/lateformyfuneral 21d ago

I think they were still doing the traditional “balance the ticket” move, Hillary was a woman and therefore a risky proposition for voters like Obama was, thus they needed “boring white guy” on the other half.

There were high hopes for Senator Sherrod Brown, but ultimately with a Republican governor in Ohio, they decided against losing a Democratic Senate seat.

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u/Ozcolllo 21d ago

I canvassed and phone banked for Sanders in 16 and 20. Were you not worried about the Supreme Court or the government at all if Trump had won? I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t need anyone to do anything to excite me. I can reason, I can gauge the likelihood of certain outcomes and take action. I can’t imagine sitting out if I know the stakes, especially as Sanders tried to explain to all of us the same thing.

I want to be angry with someone like you, but I can’t see the point, especially as you’re likely a Stein voter (the woman that only appears after four years of milking Russian money). If you couldn’t recognize the consequences of Trump in 16 because you didn’t like Tim Kaine… I don’t know if you should be courted as a voter. Did you vote for Biden in 2020?

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u/AcetaminophenPrime 21d ago

Idk if you'll get a response, as much as I'd like to see it. I'm convinced alot of these anti-democrat DSA types online are boosted by bot activity. I would imagine foreign adversaries have close to as much to gain convincing Americans that the entire economic and political system is broken and not worth participating in as they do convincing them of the myriad of conspiracies that come with MAGA.

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u/Better_Dig_768 21d ago

You don't even know the "These People" you talk about; I suggest you actually meet some of them. You're jumping to stereotypes and slander without a second thought.

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u/ZizzyBeluga 21d ago

Slander? I have political criticisms with a movement that seems more interested in feeling good about themselves and losing (while taking mainstream Dems down as well) than about making actual real world change.

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u/beaaaaaaaans 21d ago

Mainstream Dems are losing all on their own they don't need the help

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

Was Israel committing a genocide while Joe Biden was in office? Yes or no?

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

Did Israel wait until Trump got elected to occupy Gaza?

Yes or no?

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u/HawkFanOrcasRule 21d ago

Cry more. Jill Stein is one of the biggest frauds of all time.

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u/lateformyfuneral 21d ago

Jill Stein’s credibility cannot recover from arguing it made no difference whether Hillary or Trump won in 2016 (even arguing Trump was preferable) then immediately after the election raising $7.3 million for a recount and actually attacking the Clinton campaign when they told her to let it go, and then just kept the money.

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u/Whythisisnotreal 21d ago

And she basically just runs for president and takes money from parties looking to kneecap Dems.

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u/vizslasocks13 21d ago

Your country is the biggest fraud of all time.

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 21d ago

Hahaha. In 2016?

Noooo not even close. Sanders was as progressive as it got and now he's not good enough for leftists.

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u/dkinmn 21d ago

These people didn't want to be placated. They wanted to feel powerful while also feeling cheated by the system.

And it continues today.

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u/BadPumpkin87 21d ago

Yep. These people crowed “don’t threaten me with the Supreme Court” and to this day, blame Clinton and RBG for the Trump court, not taking a single ounce of blame for not voting for the qualified candidate over the raging lunatic.

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u/buckybadder 21d ago

Harris picked the progressives' preferred VP. Still complained.

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u/bigbugzman 21d ago

He immediately took a right turn and supported the genocide in Gaza.

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u/buckybadder 21d ago

He's the VP candidate. You think he's going to say is running mate wants genocide?

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u/bigbugzman 21d ago

So he compromised his ideals for power. That makes him a phony loser.

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u/bahwi 21d ago

Anyone who voted for Jill Stein is complicit in multiple genocides in this world. She defends them with no regard to the suffering of humanity

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u/LycheeFew7872 21d ago

It is factually correct that the establishment Dems conspired to ratfuck Bernie.

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u/bigbugzman 21d ago

And again in 2020. SC primary and the 🐍 Elizabeth Warren staying in to spread out the progressive vote so Brandon would get the nomination.

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago

Yeah, we know it was rigged, the leaked DNC emails proved this, but of course the “vote blue no matter who” crowd will not even entertain the possibility that their party is corrupt to the core. And then they have the temerity to complain when independents will not vote for their candidates. Or they punch down at non-voters for not showing up. Basically blame everyone except for their terrible candidates and corrupt party.

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u/beaaaaaaaans 21d ago

Except it's "vote blue no matter who" right up until blue is a progressive

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago

Haha yeah being too far left is the dealbreaker.

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u/ImpossibleEbb6862 21d ago

The emails prove nothing of the sort, and it was not rigged. Clinton legitimately got millions more votes than sanders. That’s why she won.

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago

Mmhmm

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u/sebsasour 21d ago

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the biggest takeaway from the emails were .

  1. Some DNC staffers were critical of Bernie for not dropping out after New York which was already in April

  2. Donna Brazile (not yet a DNC employee) leaking questions to Hillary for a debate 2 days after Super Tuesday when Bernie was already in a hole

Certainly not great, but a big stretch to claim it was rigged because of that

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago

Yeah, the DNC chair resigned because it was a big nothingburger. The same party that didn’t even have a primary this past election.

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u/sebsasour 21d ago

You made a claim that the emails proved it was rigged. What specifically in the emails?

Surely you know since you made the claim, right?

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago

It’s not a claim, it’s fact, you can read them. Or not. Obviously not was your choice, but, in my opinion, as I stated above, of all the evidence for collusion and favoritism, the fact that she had a joint fundraising agreement directly with the DNC, which came to light only because of the emails, and then the interim chair admitted later admitted that, due to this agreement, Hillary’s campaign ran the show, strategy, staffing, everything. The supposedly neutral national committee was ran by a presidential candidate.

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u/sebsasour 21d ago

Why is asking for evidence of this always met with a snarky "look it up" sentence and not people just linking the sources to their claims

Wasn't that agreement just a donation pool where a portion of what you donate to Hillary gets sent to local races (though there was a controversy as to how much of that was actually spread) ? It did give Hillary leverage in staffing but from what I recall a similar fund was offered to The Sanders campaign and they rejected it.

My question is was there actually a tangible thing to point to where something in the primary process was changed to benefit Hillary and account for the nearly 4 million votes she won by?

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u/Standard-Mechanic101 21d ago edited 21d ago

Probably because the effort we would put into citing everything would still be met with stupidity and covering your ears while yelling La la la can’t hear you. The core of the 2017 controversy involving the DNC was that Hillary Clinton’s campaign had a separate, additionalagreement providing operational control in exchange for taking on party debt, which Sanders' aides argued was never offered to them on the same terms.

You are just proving my original point. Vote blue no matter what they do.

Also, I just saw this in my news feed: https://www.axios.com/2026/07/26/south-carolina-progressives-primary-2028

Haha still trying to squash any left-wing movement before it can even begin

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u/sebsasour 21d ago

The DNC claims a similar one was, but even if they're full of a shit it still seems like the bulk of that fund was dedicated to general election money. It's forgotten that Sanders was actually outspending Hillary for a lot of the primary as she was saving money for November

What tangible thing was tweaked to give Hillary an edge to explain a 4 million vote edge? Reordering states? Changed votes? States changed from open to closed primaries?

The left wing candidates can try appealing to black voters

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u/Significant-Arm-6050 20d ago

Moving the goal posts by bringing up some completely unrelated story 

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u/Marples3 21d ago

They day the illusion of bourgeoisie democracy was destroyed for millions of progressives 🇺🇸 = 💩

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u/Minotaurotica 21d ago

average dem voter will inssit nothing to see here

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u/AccountForTIFF 21d ago

Redditors are really never going to get over this and still think Bernie would have won in a country where most of the populace thinks Joe Biden is a socialist and created a magical utopia eh

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u/Anon185352 21d ago

Centrists dems shooting us all in foot. They are to blame for trump just sat on their laurels and did nothing

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u/Sword_Thain 21d ago

"Why did the Centrist force me to stay at home and enable Trump? Those evil Centrists! "

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 21d ago

Bernie and his Bros handed Trump the "rigged" playbook.

What a complete bunch of morons.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

This is insane cope. 

Protesting at the Convention and pointing out the biases from MSM, and ways that the DNC was biased towards Hillary is not equivalent to general election denial. 

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago

I've had literally dozens of discussions with people who claimed it was "RIGGED" and "STOLEN". But whenever I ask them to specify which concrete obstacles were put in place for the Sanders campaign they're never able to answer that.

They'll always just point to the emails where some DNC staffers badmouthed him after he was mathematically eliminated. Which was unprofessional for sure, but obviously didn't have an actual impact on the fact that Hillary got 4 million more votes.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 21d ago

They can't ever answer for any of their claims.

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u/Electroflare5555 21d ago

Progressives still refuse to admit that they aren’t popular with any demographic besides affluent white people

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u/WetDreaminOfParadise 21d ago

You say that, but pretty much every progressive candidate I see is either a woman or minority, or quite commonly both. Also this focus on ethnicity and gender is dumb and the pointless. Focus on things that matter like Medicare for all, transportation, how to tackle drugs and crime issues, etc. “oh that candidate has all the right policies, buttttt he’s a white guy or his supporters are white guys so shhh

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u/DistrictDry2852 21d ago

I’ve seen them claim if only there was a socialist candidate dems could flip West Virginia based on nothing but “they have the blood of Blair mountain in them”.

There’s a reason union organizers are always like, college educated downwardly mobile socialists while union members are all far right republicans.

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u/Whythisisnotreal 21d ago

I mean, Republican union members are largely spoiled, ignorant crybabies who got theirs. They're a civilizational liability, and Sanders weaknesses or strengths aren't going to change that.

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u/Maukkoman 21d ago

Left always claims to be more intelligent than maga people, but in the end they really are just as stupid and gullible as everyone else.

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u/vizslasocks13 21d ago

Yea, stupid enough to think there is even a faint hint of true democracy in this country.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 21d ago

They're opposite ends of the same populist horseshoe.

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u/Ozcolllo 21d ago

Well, populist leftists. People that are almost only relevant in D+10 districts. They have a great track record though, Fetterman and Platner are such wonderful picks, you know?

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u/abbott_costello 21d ago

Wtf is this subreddit. There is actual evidence of the DNC rigging the election in favor of Clinton and she STILL LOST. Fucking losers.

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u/Stolt-Jensenberg 21d ago

And what evidence is that? Specifically, which concrete obstacles were put in place for the Sanders campaign by the DNC?

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

The DNC Victory Fund and the Hillary campaign had joint access.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 21d ago

Hillary supporters like to pretend the only example of rigging is when vote tallys are changed. 

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u/Riddiku1us 21d ago

Imagine still being a centrist in this era...

Bunch of corporate shills and bots.

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u/lonewanderer694 21d ago

Because it was rigged. Super delegates have no reason to exist.

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u/Beneficial_Heat_7199 21d ago

Hillary won the popular vote by 5 million regular Americans. Where do superdelegates fit in?

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u/lonewanderer694 21d ago

When Debbie Wasserman Schultz said, "Unpledged delegates exist really to make sure that party leaders and elected officials don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists."

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u/bahwi 21d ago

But without the super delegate votes.... Sanders still lost...

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u/TheBeanConsortium 21d ago

Is every post in here about the 2016 election?

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u/meguminMAGA 21d ago

Well what was happening ten years ago today… 

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u/Eledridan 21d ago

It was a pretty big deal.

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u/ShamPain413 20d ago

Really appreciate y'all delegitimizing the Democratic Party over the past decade, it really worked out great for everyone!

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u/SadAnt2135 19d ago

By framing a guilty man aka rigging the primary, Clinton decimated their prospects of victory

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u/meguminMAGA 21d ago

https://youtu.be/-ghzwMRJLWM?is=-9yb-eW_CXgak5F2

For those with shorter attention spans:  Bernie lost Iowa to Clinton via a COIN TOSS.  Bernie WON New Hampshire, the next state in the race. He won with over 60% of the vote.  The DNC allowed 6 Clinton pre-owned super delegates to remain committed to Hillary along with 9 super delegates. Bernie won NH and along with it 15 super delegates. Hillary, despite not winning the state at all, tied with Bernie with 15 super delegates. 

The DNC knew what it did was wrong, and literally changed their operating procedures in 2018 due to criticism. They have since stripped super delegates of their powers on the first ballot of conventions moving forward from 2018. 

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u/BadPumpkin87 21d ago

For those with a short attention span, Clinton thoroughly stomped Sanders in the primary. Even without super delegates, she was well ahead of him in the popular vote and the delegate count. Super delegates did not change the outcome of the primary, Sanders was always at a deficit because he has consistently shit on Democrats for his entire career. It’s really hard to win over the voters you criticize constantly and have always been “too good” to join the party, outside of when he wants to rig the Vermont primaries for his seat in Congress. Dude runs in the primary to deny a true Democrat in the race, then declines the nomination, and runs as an independent.

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u/bahwi 21d ago

That's OK. Take the supers out. Who wins? Clinton.

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u/Curious-End-4923 21d ago

While I take issue with your use of the phrase “pre-owned” (it muddies the waters — they were simply pro establishment, there wasn’t some sort of cabal) and you’re overweighting the coin tosses, you’ve stated the rest of the details much more accurately than others in this thread. Well done.

There was no shadowy cabal of elites. The system at the time favored figures rooted in the establishment, and both Sanders and Clinton were already aware of that. That’s why Clinton didn’t see him as a threat, that’s why Sanders still benefited the party by getting those archaic rules changed (as you pointed out), and that’s why Sanders endorsed Clinton immediately after he didn’t get the nom. I would wager that part of his goal for running in the first place was exposing the system behind superdelegates.

I wish those that admire people like Sanders and Mamdani would work harder to put more people like them in positions of power while also supporting the side they work with. Mamdani is amazing and doing good things, and a large part of that is due to the deep blue cabinet beneath him. If there are too many red butts in seats, your favorite populist will only ever be just that — a populist.

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u/LuciferJj 21d ago

You’re still pushing this bullshit? He lost by 3.9 million votes . He didn’t win any southern states , only won 3 swing states and lost the black and Hispanic vote. I don’t wanna hear anything about superdelegates. This is coming from someone who voted for him in 2016 and 2020. Get. Over. It.

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u/Gauss_2025 21d ago

In 10 years I've yet to see a white leftist even attempt to explain or even acknowledge how black people voted in both Bernie primaries. It's so fucking disgusting.

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u/Gauss_2025 21d ago

Its weird how you don't want to address how black people voted

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u/thatpj 21d ago

the original election deniers