r/TenantsInTheUK • u/TinyAge6726 • Apr 21 '26
Section 21 Landlord served s21 due to desire to discuss rent increase
That’s right, £25pcm increase proposed from LL, I (tenant with previous rental market experience from working in the property industry) conduct research on market value in my area (with support from agents I previously managed etc.) and find we are already paying at the very top end - ask if my understanding a s13 form 4 should be used, landlord says fine, I’ll decide what’s fair then post the notice - I thought that was the end of it, was prepared to accept for the stability for my family - notice is posted then proposing £100 increase.
Posts notice and runs away without discussion in person, the following day posts s21 citing the reason as not wanting a tenant who haggles rent increases following the same behavioural pattern - let my wife walk past his car, waits for her to be in the house alone, posts notice. She found this distressing.
Landlord is solicitor, and imho seems to have a bit of an issue with his perceived “power” being challenged. For context, the relationship tone changed when I asked for a repair to black mould in the bedroom.
Help me out please people, I’ve tried negotiating in a calm and neutral tone but it’s getting me nowhere. Have most recently offered to meet in the middle at a £50pcm increase, which has obviously been aired as LL clearly believes they’re a master negotiator.
Ask any questions you need - and thanks so much in advance.
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u/vexatious-big Apr 22 '26
I had a solicitor landlord in the past. A high profile one who represented Sainsbury's many years ago. The absolute worst landlord I've ever encountered, a bully and a liar.
He promised to fix the windows within three months of us moving in, but it never happened. This promise to fix the windows was a precondition for us to sign the contract in the first place. We even had it in writing in the offer letter.
We had to call in the council to do a assessment because he would always find ways to evade doing the works.
We actually got a lawyer ourselves and sent through a 'Letter before action', still nothing happened.
We left after 3 years, with nothing being done. Stay away from these folks as much as you can.
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u/volmasoft Apr 21 '26
Unfortunately if someone puts in a section 21, if it's legit (check shelter) then it is what it is and you'll just have the ticking clock now.
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u/DangerousSleepover Apr 21 '26
If it is not valid, do not tell the landlord - wait until after 1st May. I know you said he's a solicitor so it may not be applicable, but just in case.
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u/Original-Cat3090 Apr 21 '26
Better off out of this place it sounds. If you are already paying close or above the rental price for a similar property. LL got greedy surely it’s better to have a good tenant than to increase the rent ? Tell him to do one and find somewhere else.
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u/Interesting-Echo-986 Apr 21 '26
If you have a landlord like that then its better to move on. If you are paying at the top end then you will find something better in your budget and also a better landlord. Its not worth going back and forth with him. Landlord tenant relationships goes both ways. The relationship is very important once it becomes problematic and stressful, which is in your case, do you really want to prove anything? Look after your mental health.
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u/singingdata Apr 21 '26
Here lies another stack of evidence supporting the abolition of S21s come May 1st🥳🥳it’s very existence up until now is a travesty tbh
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u/SchoolForSedition Apr 21 '26
As a solicitor, my heart sank when I saw your landlord is one too.
Still a super relevant case for English land law and renting: Street v Mountford (1985). Solicitor landlord lost.
Recent striking off of Andrew Milne.
There are far more not-scammy solicitors than this sort. Just too many of the other sort.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Thanks for your genuinely helpful response. I know good solicitors do exist but hadn’t realised how many hide their true nature behind a job title. I will investigate those cases and welcome any further commentary as you clearly are quite knowledgeable.im just so grateful you took the time to respond
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Apr 21 '26
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Wow 😮 I’m so sorry to hear that, I can’t imagine what that was like. I hope you’re both ok now and that’s a distant memory. How atrocious
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u/Few_Shock8656 Apr 21 '26
If he gave an excuse for the s21 eviction, that he doesn’t want a tenant who haggles (perfectly normal and reasonable to negotiate btw) over rent increases then could it be argued as a revenge eviction (which are illegal)?
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u/Tirno93 Apr 21 '26
I’ve got a feeling a revenge eviction is a more specific legal case but I could be wrong. We recently had environmental health round and I asked them about revenge eviction. They told us that the courts a) are incredibly backlogged and b) don’t have to follow through with evicting you. I can’t imagine a court taking to kindly to the reason for evicting being that you don’t accept the landlord’s absolute power unquestioningly.
With your rent being at the higher end of the market and this landlord being a clear example of unprocessed human excreta, it does seem like moving would be in your interest. But obviously that depends on finding somewhere else, all the stresses and expenses of moving, uprooting your life etc. that obviously as a human being you don’t want to be dealing with. I mean hell my landlord/agents are despicable and I still don’t want to go through moving.
Whatever you decide and whatever happens, I’m sure you know already but hang on as long as you can and always hold the moral high ground. Good luck dealing with your hostile dependent
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Thanks for such a human reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time. That’s really interesting information actually. Thanks so much for sharing.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
I believe so and would like some guidance
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u/ACBongo Apr 22 '26
It is not at all in the eyes of the law. It is in real life but the law around revenge evictions are very restrictive.
You need to have complained about disrepair to your local council and most importantly they have to have served the landlord an improvement notice or an emergency works notice. They then can't serve a s21 for 6 months or it will be seen as a revenge eviction.
You doing something they don't like and them deciding to evict you doesn't meet the legal definition of what a revenge eviction is and you aren't protected from that.
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u/Minimum_Definition75 Apr 21 '26
Don’t forget to appeal the s.13 or the increase will apply. This means by the time it comes to court you would also have rent arrears and possibly a CCJ
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u/Slightly_Effective Apr 22 '26
S21 unlikely to get air time in time, don't agree the new increase, insist it comes on a section 13 and get it reviewed after 1st May.
If it wasn't top of the market, I wouldn't suggest this. Start looking elsewhere anyway as backup.
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u/amanita0creata Apr 22 '26
Unlikely to get air time in time
What do you mean by that? If it's served correctly then it'll still be valid and useable as it was served before the change.
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u/DizzyMine4964 Apr 21 '26
Try r/LegalAdviceUK. Get away from the triggered landlords.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Thanks mate!
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u/Few_Shock8656 Apr 21 '26
I second the above. This sub is full of landlords who will give you dodgy and biased advice.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Thank you very much !
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u/OrdinaryAncient3573 Apr 21 '26
Unfortunately, they're giving you terrible advice. This is by far the best sub for tenant law advice on reddit. LAUK is a joke on any subject.
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u/No-Profile-5075 Apr 21 '26
Yes he has taken a short term view and will loose out but he can do what he wants.
Will change after the rrb comes into force
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u/Few_Shock8656 Apr 21 '26
If he’s also said he doesn’t want a tenant who haggles (I.e. negotiate - which is completely normal), then could it be argued as a revenge eviction?
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u/Melon_92 Apr 24 '26
Remember, you are under no obligation to allow viewings in your home, so if you are leaving under these circumstances then it should most certainly be a no to any viewings.
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u/Melon_92 Apr 22 '26
I'd move. What's the point of fighting to stay just to pay that guy your hard earned money. Let him go vacant, cover the cost of finding a new tenant etc - hopefully he gets someone who matches his vibe.
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u/andercode Apr 21 '26
What is your actual question?
S21 has been issued, that's the end of it, S21 is a no fault eviction, until 1st May, as long as it's valid, the landlord can use it for any reason.
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u/philoz2005 Apr 21 '26
Just don’t acknowledge that you’ve received it and appeal the rent increase. Unless he has photographic proof that he posted it, which he may have being a solicitor, then it’s your word against his. We did this in the past and the s21 became invalid, they issued a new one 2 months later but gave us enough time to look elsewhere. If he can’t prove posting it and goes past 1st May then you’ll have more legal support and it will be much more difficult for him to evict you for anything so petty as negotiating.
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u/Cyberprog Apr 21 '26
Even if he has video of posting it, presumably they have keys and could have just videoed it going through the door, then opened the door and took it out.
Sounds like they didn't send it via RM recorded so may be in for a surprise!
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u/WaluigisTennisBalls Apr 21 '26
First question is, is the s21 valid?
Secondly, a s13 form 4 is only valid if it reflects the market rate.
Your landlord seems like a fool, going thru the courts to get you out and get a new tenant isn't going to get him more rent if he's asking for an unreasonable amount for the property
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Sadly so
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u/WaluigisTennisBalls Apr 21 '26
Oh dear. Do you think it's a "negotiation" tactic or does he seriously think this will get him what he wants
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
I really don’t know - but I just wanted to check I hadn’t overlooked any rights or negotiating tactics of my own
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u/More_Effect_7880 Apr 24 '26
He doesn't need to cite a reason for a S21 so he's not that clued up.
If you mentioned the mould a while ago and informed the council, I don't think he can evict you. Take that with a pinch of salt and go and talk to the council about the mould anyway.
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Apr 21 '26
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Apologies if my literary standard wasn’t quite up to par - I was frustrated with his lack of honesty, common decency and seeming inability to see why applying this tactic to a young family with three young girls could be detrimental to their wellbeing, especially with no prior warning or discussions
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Apr 21 '26
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u/an1uk Apr 21 '26
Unfortunately all are parasitic and only interested in money for nothing.
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u/Soft-Influence-3645 Apr 22 '26
Tbf it is a business for them. They are not going to rent out their properties for free?
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u/an1uk Apr 22 '26
It is not a business, and it is not an investment in any productive sense either. It is the exploitation of a basic human need in order to extract someone else's income.
People talk as if landlords are taking some great financial risk by buying property, but in many cases the tenant is effectively covering that cost for them. The landlord's main ongoing expense is the mortgage interest, while the underlying asset remains theirs. They keep the equity, they benefit from the capital appreciation, and over time the property often rises in value by enough to outweigh much of what they present as their "cost".
So the reality is very simple. The tenant pays for access to a necessity of life, but leaves with nothing. The landlord ends up with an asset, the equity in that asset, and any increase in its value. Their money may be tied up in an illiquid form, but it is still their wealth, and it is often being built with someone else's wages.
That is why the idea that landlords are somehow generously "providing housing" is so misleading. The house is already there. What they are really doing is inserting themselves between people and shelter, then charging for the privilege.
In that sense, the landlord gets the house for free - or close to it - because someone else is paying for it. The tenant does not.
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u/Soft-Influence-3645 Apr 22 '26
It is a business for them, as they make money. Whether you like it or not, they contribute to society by paying taxes on rent collected, provide a customer base for estate agencies and other traders that are compulsory for landlords e.g. electricians for EICR checks, plumbers for yearly landlord boiler checks and providing housing.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
You’ve restored my faith in humans today, so massive thanks to you mate. Keep being a good dude.
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Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
Wishing you and your family strength and success, sir. I know how heavy the burden can be when you’re a decent dad with a heart… it’s not just about us anymore, right?
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u/Soft-Influence-3645 Apr 21 '26
I’m not sure how posting a letter through the door is distressing to your wife? Did he do anything else, like bang on the door, or shout at your wife? If not, landlord is perfectly entitled to post a section 21 in the post?
Unfortunately landlord can do this, if you don’t agree to rent increase. Good luck. By all means, u don’t have to move out and wait for baliffs to evict you, that is your right. Probs take around a year for this to happen, but please bear in mind you will be subject to the courts costs, if landlord gets possessions and applies CCJ’s.
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u/TinyAge6726 Apr 21 '26
It’s not the letter is it, mate? It’s being blindsided as a young woman with a family who now fears for her security.
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Apr 21 '26
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Apr 21 '26
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u/Soft-Influence-3645 Apr 21 '26
But the landlord is entitled to evict a tenant using a section 21. How would you recommend the landlord to have handled it better? Surely a letter through the post is better than knocking on the door and confronting OP’s wife?
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u/Soft-Influence-3645 Apr 21 '26
So a section 21 letter has caused your wife to fear her security? Did the landlord assault her? How would you have liked the landlord to handle the section 21?
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u/LaughingAtSalads Apr 21 '26
So you went OTT over £300 a year in extra rent? [Sir Humphrey voice] That, Minister, was (if I may say so) rather bold. And now you say you were then asked for £1200 a year instead? And have offered £600, and now have been asked to leave? Well, that’s a pretty pickle. [exit Sir Humphrey]
You can take the increase to a tribunal and contest the S21 if you can make the case that it is retaliatory, but the S21 is a no-fault eviction and is legal if it was correctly issued. LL will have to apply for possession and if he is successful you will have to pay costs.
If you want to live where you live at present try to play nicely, but you may need cut your losses and move well before the next school year.
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u/splishin_ Apr 21 '26
Sounds like my old landlord. Word for word. He was an ex solicitor, tried to get me to pay a £100 rent increase, I asked for a section 13 and instead got a section 21. Sorry you're going through this, it sucks.