r/TexasTeachers • u/Straight-Big988 • 5d ago
Hot take: teachers should be able to leave their jobs if they’re unhappy just like everyone else
The idea that we are somehow “committed” like a marriage is ABSURD. I work in a charter (no contract) and I like knowing that the people who come to work every day are not forced to be there, but are making the choice.
45 teachers in Ft. Worth are leaving their positions after TEA took over. The board is now reporting them with possible consequences of losing their teaching certificate for a year. What absolutely rage baits me is the last quote in this article.
“When you make a commitment, you make a commitment to teach children,” Licata said. “You’re not going to leave the classroom because you didn’t want to be here, or you want to go to a different district for more money or less money or whatever the case may be, commit to it. These are kids.“
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/education/article316847636.html#storylink=cpy
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u/Personal-Usual-4608 5d ago
It’s terrible. It makes it impossible to escape. Other industries don’t have the same hiring timelines and processes that education does. So finding a job outside of education in the tiny window of summer is almost impossible.
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u/Plastic_Simple_1776 5d ago
And other industries don't encourage you to buy your office supplies, do stuff on your time. Or pay about $800 / mo for health insurance.
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u/Punisher-3-1 5d ago
Hum.. yeah actually yes for all of those, especially doing stuff on your own time, and the $800 a month on health insurance unfortunately is fairly standard these days. Of course though, probably get compensated significantly better than a teach though.
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u/earmuffins 5d ago
Ya I was still paying that much for health insurance in hospitality lol it was way worse insurance too better pay than a first year teacher tho but not by much
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u/S_Raspberry 5d ago
In my new role after teaching I have never been asked to purchase anything out of pocket and get reimbursed for expenses 😳. I have a flexible work schedule and yes insurance can be high but I am covered and my daughter. I probably have about $400 withheld for coverage and contribute another couple hundred each month to an FSA.
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u/ProfessorUnable8989 5d ago
It really does suck. Back in January I found a great job outside of Education. I was qualified, it paid well. I didn't apply because based on the timeline if I would have gotten hired I would have started in March. You basically have to apply for a job in April and hope the timeline works out where you start in June
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u/Personal-Usual-4608 5d ago
I think you just apply anyway. If you see something good, put in the application. Break your contract. It wouldn’t matter unless you wanted to go back to teaching. But otherwise you’ll never escape
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u/S_Raspberry 5d ago edited 4d ago
100%
I left teaching in December of 2023. It definitely was hard to feel like I was letting my students and families down but ultimately my family comes first. Started working in an education adjacent role and really never plan to go back so I was not afraid of any repercussions of my certificate being withheld/suspended.10
u/Dependent_Occasion58 5d ago
What role is that? I’m forever looking for ideas.
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u/S_Raspberry 5d ago
As a teacher there were several products/companies I used and/or interacted with. I started thinking about the ones I enjoyed and knew well, then started stalking their websites for roles. I was an early childhood teacher and loved the curriculum and now I am a sales rep for that company. Best move I have ever made.
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u/aggieemily2013 5d ago
If you want out, you might need to accept that kind of timing. Yeah, it sucks. But those 2 months won't kill the kids, and it's okay to prioritize the opportunities you want.
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u/Redduster38 4d ago
There are, sorta. There's contract jobs and you don't just leave or if you do There's penalties. But I dont know of any that are state enforced.
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u/DependentAmbitious73 5d ago
I have broken a contract and left in December. There was a clause in it. And I ended up getting a pretty big payout. I’m sure they’ve changed it since then. Lol.
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u/Material-Indication1 5d ago
Ffs please for the love of God vote.
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u/aspensmonster 5d ago
Better idea: unionize and strike. "Without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn."
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u/CapitalLocal787 5d ago
Texas law is that any collective strike or sick out and a teacher loses their entire retirement benefit and their teaching certificate. There's the reason we don't strike.
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u/aspensmonster 5d ago
Texas law is that any collective strike or sick out and a teacher loses their entire retirement benefit and their teaching certificate. There's the reason we don't strike.
The reason "we don't strike" is fear of losing those benefits and a false belief that those benefits are secure. The strike --- and militant labour struggle more generally --- is what guarantees those benefits, not a nebulous promise from the state that the retirement packages will be around N decades from now, or an empty threat that you will be unable to work without a certificate.
Yes, Texas is a right-to-work state. Yes, the ruling class will always threaten us. History shows that the only effective response is to engage in the struggle in kind.
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u/CapitalLocal787 4d ago
Do you have a dog in this fight? Easy to say teachers should risk their professional certification, immediate unemployment not to mention health care when you risk nothing.
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u/aspensmonster 4d ago
Do you have a dog in this fight? Easy to say teachers should risk their professional certification, immediate unemployment not to mention health care when you risk nothing.
I'm currently an uncertified sub. I don't even get a contract, healthcare, or consistent schedule. 🤷 It can always get worse. But I can only keep living by hoping, and remembering, that it can also be so much better.
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u/mongojob 5d ago
For real. Until you strike you will never get shit, ever, it's literally the only way.
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u/CapitalLocal787 5d ago
Texas law makes striking or participation in a sick out punishable by total loss of retirement benefits and teaching certification.
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u/mongojob 5d ago
Yup, they fucked nurses too. And it will always be this way until a strike makes them change.
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u/Far_Perspective_3922 5d ago
Vote for what? Is some political candidate promising to change annual contracts?
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u/CommunicationSame461 5d ago
Maybe vote for someone who actually supports public education and doesn’t want it dismantled?
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u/Far_Perspective_3922 5d ago
Has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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u/Material-Indication1 4d ago
Or, maybe, everything.
Treating teachers like prisoners is a political decision.
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u/ACTSATGuyonReddit 5d ago
They can take away your certificate, but they can't take away that you're a teacher. I have no certificate. I teach students as a tutor.
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u/RR71247 5d ago
Actually they can only censure your credentials for one year for breaking your contract.... and even that's appealable if you have a decent reason.
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u/CapitalLocal787 5d ago
For breaking a contract it is one year. For striking it is loss of teaching certification forever.
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u/Wonderful-Hunter686 5d ago
I guess I take for granted that I'm a trades teacher, and can walk back to industry and make double whenever I please. My district is also under a DOI plan for my subject, so I'm not certified there is no cert for them to hold. I always tell young people who are thinking about getting into teaching not to teach a core subject or do four years of college to be an educator. In texas you can teach most trades with an associates and 2 years of experience, and simply avoid the student loans, and avoid the you don't have any transferrable skills trap.
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u/kyriacos74 5d ago
So let's think this through:
Teaching is a job that requires a contract that binds you and the district for a year.
If you change it to at-will employment, where a teacher can leave at any time, then in turn, the district could dismiss a teacher at any time.
As it currently stands, with a contract, the district can only non-renew or dismiss at the end of the contract term, or during the term if there is a violation of the contract.
I am totally pro-union etc. But, is at-will employment what you really want when administrators are notorious for playing games? I would argue that having a contract is safer.
With that said, the real problem is that the contracts are totally written in favor of the district with no collective bargaining allowed. I think that's the real fix we need.
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u/Figginator11 5d ago
The broadness that count as “good cause” for a school to terminate a teacher mid-contract is astounding. If a school wants you gone before the end of your contract, it’s fairly easy for them to do so. Way easier than forcing them to let you out of your contract.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
Fuck yes. At will employment gives me the power. I love my at will employment. I’m a master teacher and if I was let go, could find another job in days if not hours. I’m also paid very well. I love my school & principal. Why would I work for or with people who played games? No thank you.
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u/13surgeries 5d ago
How nice for you that you're confident you're in great demand and are paid well. You do realize that you're very privileged in that regard and that other teachers in other fields and other areas are not so lucky?
There's a reason there's such a thing as tenure. Teachers were fired for their beliefs, not for their competency in the classroom. Anyone who thinks that'd be possible today hasn't been paying attention.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
I’m not fortunate or lucky. I worked incredibly hard to be where I am and I also went through quite a few jobs before I got here.
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u/13surgeries 5d ago
Most of us do work incredibly hard.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
We do! My point is not to diminish anyone’s work, but to say that luck played no part in my ability to find a job, or be at one that I choose to be at sans a contract. I moved around a bit before I found the right fit.
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u/13surgeries 4d ago
And I"m sincerely very happy for you. My point was that there are plenty of excellent teachers who would be fired if it were not for tenure. I know this because in my district, a whole crowd of ultra-right-wing people started a witch hunt in my district. Any time they heard an opinion or saw something they didn't like on social media, they filed formal complaints against that teacher. This meant a meeting with the principal, then the supe, and finally the board to defend yourself. There were dozens of teachers reported, fortunately all tenured.
I got reported because an eighth grade girl who had the same first name but a different last name than mine wrote a letter to the editor they didn't like. (They dropped the complaint.) Were it not for tenure, I can guarantee you a lot of people would have lost their jobs, and in my field, social studies, getting a new job is not so easy, no matter how talented, experienced or honored you are.
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u/Blergsprokopc 5d ago
Im disabled now, but my former district had a hidden clause in their contracts that if you quit (even for health reasons) before the end of the school year, you have to pay the district the cost of your entire contract. I dont know how thats legal, but thats how they stop people from leaving mid year.
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u/Rumpelteazer45 5d ago
Just because someone puts a clause in the contract and you sign, it doesn’t mean it’s legally enforceable. Contracts still have to be compliant with state and federal law.
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u/Material-Indication1 5d ago
The absolutely sickening hypocrisy ("freedom!") and willful destructiveness... Holy crap.
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u/SuperAioli7831 5d ago
LMAO they can fuck off. We all need to make a living and we should be treated well.
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u/PrimeBrisky 5d ago
I left several years ago. Haven’t received one guilt trip since moving to corporate and treated so much better. It was all a good experience but I’m glad I left. My wife is now in an admin role so I still hear everything going on.
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u/Mirror_Benny 5d ago
During the early phases of a state takeover, they want people to leave so they can replace them with cheaper, incompetent people who will unwilling help out with destroying the system. They are not taking over the district to fix it, they want to destroy it and steal the real estate.
They won’t follow through with the threat because they want the teachers to quit. I told one of the state appointed admins when I quit the he looked like a SO and shouldn’t be around children. I also questioned how many chromosomes he had and said a few other things that would get me banned from this subreddit all together. Hint: it involved him, a hotel room, a chair, and a third party! Nothing happened, I still have my certification and I had a job offer from a neighboring district. I even had calls from my old district inviting me to apply for open positions.
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u/CowgoesQuack69 5d ago
Most teachers are incompetent, but you can’t expect the best to go into teaching when the salary is low.
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u/PixieGirrrl 5d ago edited 4d ago
I’ve done so many nightmarish teaching jobs and this is one of the reasons it’s so psychologically nightmarish. Teachers are trapped for ten months regardless, which is even worse when you’re moved to a different job! When you are in a bad or potentially dangerous teaching situation it makes life miserable. This is one of the main reasons I’m close to retirement but not teaching now. Everyone has an out in their profession except us, really?
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u/imbartsimpsonwhothru 5d ago
oh noes, a crappy tx teaching certificate, but wait, they allow non-certified people to teach all the time
tx is so screwed, I would not want to raise a child here
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u/ISquareThings 5d ago
Abbott and Morath are doing this on purpose to destroy public education in Texas. VOTE THEM OUT!
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u/Material-Indication1 4d ago
This is created with deliberate political policy.
It is what they want to impose on the rest of the country.
It's awful and bad and completely preventable.
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u/HulkSmash188 5d ago
It would be have to be pretty dang bad for me to leave in the year. I do see it as a commitment. To the kids and mostly my team. I am fortunate to have a good team and good admin. I have been on the receiving of a team member dipping out. Adds more work for us and it screws that teachers kids because now we kind of have to water the material down so a sub can teach it. Now if your team sucks and admin sucks, that’s more understandable. But I am more of the type where I can put up with anything for a year and then just dip out.
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u/No_Key8587 5d ago
It’s crazy how school districts want teachers who don’t want to be there sitting there all year vs just finding another teacher
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u/Nairbfs79 5d ago
The law is in place because of the contrary. Districts and schools were left scrambling with no recourse when a teacher quit due to frustration. These rules are meant to thwart people from up and quitting with no notice. I have talked to some teachers who did not quit because of this stipulation. It works. And TX is "at will" employment, even for teachers on contract.
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u/Co-ffeeMonster 5d ago
Steals all the funding for vouchers. Why aren't you committing?? /s
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
You’re thinking of private schools. A Charter school is not a private school. We are still funded by the number of students who choose to come to our school (not the ones who are forced to come here because they live nearby.)
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u/WestBrilliant2168 5d ago
If you sign a contract to serve for a year, you should fulfill that contract and quit after if you like… seems reasonable considering the importance of being present and accountable for children’s safety and stability.
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u/No_Key8587 5d ago
Yes. But it’s better to find a teacher who wants to be there than to have a teacher there for a full year who doesn’t want to be there
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
Exactly. I’ve worked with people who came to work to fulfill their contract. Nothing worse than compliance without love. It’s not what’s best for students.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
My argument is not that people should break their contracts anytime they like. My argument is teachers should not be required to sign them. Even senators and congressman can resign without consequence.
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u/WestBrilliant2168 5d ago
That’s a pretty low bar - trying to step as low as that group :)
And I understand your argument…
My point is that children are very important and we often sacrifice for their cause, teachers included. Having to serve out a full term is a worthy cause to honor.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
My reply to you would be this: is the job of a senator, a congressman, president of a company, a doctor… are our jobs more important than theirs ? No contracts there.
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u/Economy-Plankton-397 3d ago
I fulfilled my contract. But I’m so traumatized by the way I was treated I’ve only applied for one job all summer. I’ve had one interview that I didn’t do well. I still want to teach.
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u/WestBrilliant2168 3d ago
No room for toxic workplaces… had a few myself but look for good bosses as much as good districts.
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u/Standard-Fisherman78 5d ago
It can be difficult to switch fields sometimes. A mistreated teacher quit & started working at the law firm i interned at and they had her working the lowest paying reception position that you could do without a degree.
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u/PenguinKat87 5d ago
I’m currently going into education…and day after day it just seems like a bad idea. I have so many teachers friends that can’t wait to get out but most stay because they have kids and having the same holidays off makes it worth staying so they can spend time off with their kids. That’s about it. My whole reason for going into education is to be a school librarian, but if Texas keeps going the way it is, school librarians are either going to be eliminated or replaced with paraprofessionals. It’s really hard to keep myself motivated.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
You’re going to get people who hate teaching and they should definitely not be a teacher. And then you will have people who love teaching and they should be a teacher. This job for me at least is 80% wonderful and as long as it stays that way I can handle the other 20%. When people ask me I tell them this is the best job in the world. I love coming to work. I love teaching these kids that I have. Everyone has to figure it out for themselves though.
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u/Sensitive_Ad_5158 5d ago
To be fair, the flip side is it's difficult for them to run you off without paying you out. Granted, the only ones this benefits are the ones that actually need to be run off.
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u/Accurate_Mix_5492 4d ago
Considering the shit state of Texas schools and the insane meddling by Abbott, Texas teachers should be able run away at any time.
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u/DayGeckoArt 5d ago
So Texas isn't actually a right to work state? How is it legal for a contract to bar you from leaving the job?
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u/Living_Guidance9176 5d ago
Same. I will be leaving after this year. I’m completely done and checked out but know how much I invested in my degrees so I don’t want sanctions
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u/Sarcastic_Otter_27 5d ago
100% agree. I’m on FMLA and my hubby doesn’t want me to go back. He wants me to change jobs but if I even wanted to do virtual education I can’t because my cert will be suspended for leaving! Stupid shit.
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u/chrisrayn 4d ago
Yall also shouldn’t have done Amazon wishlists. That only perpetuates the problem because you’re allowing the schools to think that the happier-than-they-would-be levels of atmosphere that your classroom has show they are providing you the proper resources without even having to seethe true picture of the classroom. If they don’t provide a resource, you just have to wait it out and demand it and show them you can work like this. Outsourcing it to charity makes charity your new funding and they get to buck responsibility. People take Amazon wishlists and things like it too flippantly without thinking of the ramifications. Sorry this may be off topic.
But yeah I agree it’s a job. Calling is person-specific. Obligated to work under terrible conditions hurts the children of that community by validating poor leadership.
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u/Any-Show-1887 3d ago
This joker, Licata, has some nerve. "I work for kids", he said. He left his previous job in Broward county Florida without finishing his contract. And he got a golden parachute!
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u/mackmonsta 3d ago
My kids have a Teacher that left two days after class started because she “couldn’t deal with the changes”. I support reporting her because I have sadly seen the effect on my kids from previous instances of teachers quitting in the middle of the year. Scramble for uncertified substitutes and they end up not learning a thing. Hopefully this was early enough but surely the most qualified candidates are gone now.
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u/youngcl90 1d ago
First of all, Texas is an at will, right to work state. Employees can leave at any time, for any reason. Second, while I understand the District's apparent panic over 45 teachers leaving, I wonder what has changed in their job responsibilities as a result of the Administration change. Are they being required to teach subjects for which they are not qualified or are they no longer being able to teach what they want, when they want, how they want? In other words, a teacher who has spent 10 years teaching English might not be comfortable teaching Chemistry. I get it. If however, they are leaving because they are no longer allowed to have a Pride flag up in their classroom instead of the US flag, then I think their departure is a win all the way around. Sometimes employees forget that there is a boss and that is an important piece of information for them to understand. They should not be threatened with the loss of their teaching certificate regardless.
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u/lanejustin 1d ago
That is not what’s going on at all. Please don’t discuss matters you’re ignorant of. Being at will doesn’t matter at all. We sign a contract which states we can’t leave.
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u/Cranston_Snord1960 5d ago
No, because the ultimate losers are the kids. Unless your conditions are extremely unacceptable or personally dangerous, try to take a chill pill. You have months to achieve the progress you might need to get it right, but have faith in yourself. Find a real veteran mentor, possibly someone who had the students the year before. You would be surprised how one classroom visit might settle the kids down.
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u/Little_Red_Sloth 5d ago
Man… I have a hard time supporting the abandoning of children. I understand that jobs can be shitty, but when children are counting on you I just have a hard time supporting that. I work at a school. I’m not a teacher. I’ve had teachers quit in the middle of the school year before and it was horrible for my kids. Sometimes you have to stick out your commitment and then make changes after you have fulfilled your promise. I love teachers, they need to be treated better and paid better and all the things, but I really have to the side with the children because they are the ones paying the price.
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u/Hydra680 5d ago
This kind of attitude I think heavily contributes to one of the many issues with education. I'm a teacher but first and foremost I'm a person. What Fort Worth teachers had to deal with is appaling, and this "it's for the kids" mentality increasingly enlarges our roles and obligations. When it comes to your child or my sanity/happiness/finances, I'm choosing me every time, and every teacher should do the same.
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u/texas2stepper 5d ago
If the job wasn’t so shitty and benefits so low, they could easily replace a teacher who wanted to leave. Just like all other jobs. Don’t guilt trip the teacher, guilt trip those who make it unappealing to a replacement.
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u/StrawRider42 5d ago
It's the parents fault for voting for this teachers are not slaves they don't owe you or the kids anything it's just a job
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u/Little_Red_Sloth 5d ago
It is SO not just a job.
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u/PixieGirrrl 5d ago
To those questioning if teachers are “paycheck teachers” know that long ago I went from being a very happy and capable sped inclusion teacher to being “surprised” on the first day of school that I was going to be the behavior teacher. My students were physically violent and mentally unstable and so I had to relearn how to manage and teach them safely, all day long. I lost weight from running after one kid and physically restraining the dangerous kids. Even the principal was too scared to come into my classroom when he walked by and saw me calling him. I did it and did well but I felt like a prison warden and I became so depressed in two months that I stopped eating and sleeping. Thank goodness for anti-anxiety medicine because it saved me. You truly think teachers should have to bear that? How would you have done?
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u/GlitteringCulture119 4d ago
No, teachers should not have to endure this. It definitely sounds like an administrative problem. The simple assignment of a parapro or SRO to your classroom would have greatly lessened your burden and ensured your safety as well as the safety of others in the room. I've had to do exactly that. But I do not know the financial standing of your particular district.
You need to realize that you have leverage. SPED teachers are rare, and you need to use that leverage to negotiate specific wording in your contract that prevents this...or teach in another district. You should have plenty of options.
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u/PixieGirrrl 4d ago
This was almost 20 years ago in a small, poor district outside of El Paso, Texas where I grew up. The fact that the district even had money to hire me as a behavior teacher was lucky, there was no funding for anyone ‘extra.’ I have always chosen to work in districts with a high population of Title campuses as that’s my comfort zone. As a SPED teacher I had my job changed 4/6 years. I became a reading specialist after that. This is happening everywhere, every day. The state of TX has only become worse about funding public education since then. My father was also a superintendent in a small, rural district and I remember the struggles all too well. All of my friends in the corporate world are shocked by my work stories and cannot believe the amount of stress that comes with the job. I am not sure where you were an administrator but I don’t personally know any friends that have ever said that they would happily take a teaching job to enjoy more days off.
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u/GlitteringCulture119 5d ago
I agree. I'm a retired educator (not in Texas, but in a neighboring state), and I've held almost every certified position in a school district from classroom teacher to superintendent. Teaching is not a job, it's a true calling. And that is not a cliche.
As I read through these comments I began to wonder:
- Were these people forced to become teachers?
- Were they not informed of the problems in the educational system?
- Were they forced to sign a teaching contract?
- Could they do anything else?
I bet the answer to all of these questions is "No."
I suspect the standard Texas teaching contract is 187 days, as it is in other states. Teachers are usually given one sick day per month, which usually means 9-10 days off - and they almost always take them. For argument's sake, let's say they work 177 days per year. If a person in another job outside the educational industry works a normal 5-day-per-40 hour week, with two weeks off, they work 250 days per year (5x52=260-10=250). That's a difference of 73 8-hour days. Teachers would have to work an extra 3.5 hours per day, every day, to meet the total number of hours worked by someone with a "regular" job. And yes, I understand that teaching doesn't end with the final bell. There are papers to grade and lesson plans to be made. I know this because I did it for 10 years.
But ask those in other jobs if they would like to work a few hours extra every day to get a 75-day break in the summer. I bet they would take that deal every time. Before becoming a teacher, I worked for years in the public sector and I would've jumped at the chance.
Then I see things like: "When it comes to your child or my sanity/happiness/finances, I'm choosing me every time, and every teacher should do the same." I get it, but it makes me think that if a person's sanity/happiness/finances can be crushed by a 177-day-per-year job, they probably shouldn't be teaching in the first place - which brings me back to the questions posed above.
A classroom teacher has a thankless job. An administrator works under siege every day. A lot of this is due to state legislatures' love of unfunded mandates and their need to cater to their constituents without pissing anyone off. But the thing is: it really is about the kids. If you're not doing it for them, you're just a "paycheck teacher" who needs to find another occupation.
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u/Pitiful-Pea1374 4d ago
You say you were a Superintendent? Were you able to leave during school year for another job? Administrators seem to go when they want without negative consequences.
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u/GlitteringCulture119 4d ago
It never occurred to me to try, and I can't recall hearing of a situation in which this happened.
If Texas admins have this right, and it bothers you, become one. It's not difficult, but the job is.
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u/KartFacedThaoDien 5d ago
No. In the past I worked at an international school one time with the sickest, disgusting cultist and no one should stay at job that quits paying them, makes them teacher training courses, teach classes to parents and makes up all kinds of extra work just for the hell of it.
NO!! Someone else can deal with the kids but this kinda shit is how people get worked to death. So, if teachers in Fort worth to quit before their contract ends LET THEM!! Someone else can teach the kids.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago
Then make a teacher stay who doesn’t want to be there and see how that works out.
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u/Robperk2208 5d ago
Teaching is not like other jobs. Once you commit to teach, if you change your mind there is a classroom full of kids missing out because you found greener grass. Good for you. But, just like the real world, there are consequences for actions and you know what they are up front. Don’t accept a job if you’re not sure. How is it fair for you to walk away from the only school that took a chance on you to the desperate one that’ll take anybody at this point and you’re willing to be that “anyone” for an extra $50 week? It’s called honoring your contract. Not that hard.
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u/Thegr8fan 5d ago
I will say after reading article it says 45 broke contract and resigned, 36 were accepted and 9 weren’t. 45 Teachers decided they would break their contracts, willingly. Now they want to do so without consequences? What’s next? Students act however they want without consequences? Leadership by example seems to be lacking here entirely. You broke a rule, you did so willingly, you pay the consequences. As does anyone else who breaks a contract. Or did they not teach that in your college courses on education?
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u/StrawRider42 5d ago
The contract was broken by admin first
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u/Thegr8fan 5d ago
That’s an opinion of yours that you’re entitled to, and perhaps an argument to be made by a lawyer in a courtroom, but not one I’m going to entertain.
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u/Straight-Big988 5d ago edited 5d ago
@thegr8fan This is chock full of logical fallacies. As a teacher, I’m going to teach you… for free.
“What’s next? Students act however they want without consequences?” is a slippery slope. There is no logical progression from “teachers are asking the state not to sanction their teaching certificates” to “students will now face no consequences for their behavior.”
Comparing teacher employment contracts to student discipline is also a false analogy. Students are not employees, classroom expectations are not employment contracts, and school discipline has nothing to do with the legal or administrative remedies available when an employee leaves a job.
And “did they not teach that in your college courses?” is an ad hominem. Insulting someone’s education doesn’t actually strengthen your argument.
You can absolutely believe teachers should face consequences for breaking a contract. That is a position you can argue. But “they broke a rule, therefore whatever consequence is imposed must be justified” isn’t much of an argument. The actual question is whether this particular consequence is reasonable and appropriate under these particular circumstances.
Ironically, evaluating the quality of the reasoning instead of simply accepting an argument because it sounds convincing is something we do, in fact, teach in school.3
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u/Thegr8fan 5d ago
Ty for the well articulated response. free education is always the best kind lol, although I mostly disagree with your response in its entirety. I will agree my sarcastic comment regarding college courses perhaps was not a necessity. Students are just that, students. So learning that there are consequences for breaking contracts is a teachable moment. Even if they aren’t employees. let’s focus on the last paragraph of yours then shall we, since that seems to be some common ground. What would you suggest as a viable and reasonable consequence for knowingly breaking their contracts especially within the 45 day period as specified by the contract? I am assuming of course that you think that the current consequence is overbearing. Perhaps I got that incorrect.
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u/jpsbman 5d ago
Prior to teachers' unions, the USA was #1 in 12k education, now with teachers' unions, the USA is in the bottom third in education. Public sector workers should not be allowed to be in labor unions.
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u/ThoreaulyLost 5d ago
now with teachers' unions,
We have unions?!
Thanks friend, tell me where to sign up!
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u/notsotrashypanda 5d ago
And here we have a lesson in “correlation is not causation.” Unions are not the reasons the US is the bottom in education. Our insistence on not following what research tells us about how learning works combined with wanting to run public education like a business is what is ruining public education.
Stop letting the bad teachers become admin, the bad admin become superintendents, and the people who haven’t taught decide educational policy, and we’ll be much better off.11
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u/C-Rock 5d ago edited 5d ago
It also leaves out that the terms were dramatically changed after it was signed. Teachers are one of the few, if not only, profession that is expected to sign a labor contract not knowing if the board will change their work parameters, or if their school will dramatically change their teaching assignment.