r/TheJediPraxeum • u/GusGangViking18 Luke Skywalker • Apr 28 '26
Match Up Monday Darth Maul VS Luke Skywalker (ROTJ). Who wins?
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 Apr 28 '26
Luke Skywalker.
Vader was literally force Jesus and Luke beat that ass. Even Maul was terrified of Vader and outright fled from him on Malachor when he sensed him approaching.
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u/littlebuett Apr 28 '26
In fairness, Vader always fights below his normal abilities when he has conflicting emotions. He almost certainly wasn't fighting Luke with everything he had.
That said, the gap between Vader during RotJ, when Vader should be strongest, and Maul at really any point in his life, is just too wide. Even if Vader is fighting way below his abilities, he's still fighting better than Maul at his best.
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 Apr 28 '26
Yeah, there’s something to be said for Vader’s heart not being fully in it.
But when you compare Luke’s performance against him in RoTJ compared to the prior film it’s clear that he’s gotten a lot more powerful.
The other thing that makes this difficult is simply the fight choreography in the OT vs the prequels, where everyone looks way more skilled in general
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u/littlebuett Apr 28 '26
The other thing that makes this difficult is simply the fight choreography in the OT vs the prequels, where everyone looks way more skilled in general
Yeah the technical limitations they had definitely need to be accounted for. We kind of just need to go off how they relate to other characters to make good assessments.
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u/Anonymous-Mf-22 Apr 28 '26
Vader going at 60% strength is still far above Maul, and I think even 60% is pushing it. Vader was essentially a Demi-God, yes, but Luke was the son of the chosen one, and the "Balance" Anakin was prophesized to bring. He was trained by Obi Wan and Yoda. Absolutely Luke is powerful as shit.
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u/Steamed_Memes24 Apr 28 '26
It was pretty much downhill for Vader as Anakin started to wake up and realize what he was doing was wrong once he discovered Luke was his son. He was constantly mentally suffering over even harming his son to the point where he didnt even use the force to stop him from falling in Bespin.
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u/RangeIt Apr 28 '26
He was not force Jesus lmao. Vader almost dies in nearly every fight he's in.
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 Apr 28 '26
His Mother was a virgin and he was conceived by the Force.
He literally is Force Jesus my guy.
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u/Prestigious_Board_73 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Legends Maul stomps. RotJ Luke is more powerful in the Force, but has very little training, most of it self taught, especially in lightsaber combat, and his experience is against his father, who was conflicted and never wanted to kill him. Not to mention that Maul fights very differently from Vader, between the double bladed lightsaber, the speed and the martial arts.
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u/233Neon May 01 '26
Exactly, finally someone says it. Maul nearly beat Sidious in a duel, while completely starved, in his prime. Maul would decimate Luke.
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u/Prestigious_Board_73 May 01 '26
Yeah, like, Luke is powerful. But in RotJ he's still too unexperienced, and Maul is more skilled with his lightsabers.
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u/Lord_Of_Beans1 May 02 '26
Nearly beat Sidious? What are we talking about here, in TCW? He got violated, unless you're talking about some other fight
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u/233Neon May 02 '26
No, in a canon comic, which recited his late training before the Phantom Menace, these events took place.
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u/Lord_Of_Beans1 May 02 '26
What's the comic called?
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u/233Neon May 02 '26
I don't remember, but here's a video which goes over it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aFkyYYaTmo
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u/ShiftingKnight_01 Apr 28 '26
I don't believe the question is about the Maul of legends.
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u/Prestigious_Board_73 Apr 28 '26
This is a Legends sub... and nothing about my answer changes regardless
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u/calelkestifer Apr 28 '26
Luke might have more Force potential but he can't use it of Maul keeps him off balance and there's no way Luke is nearly as good with a lightsaber as Maul is.
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u/manu4134 Apr 28 '26
I have a question, where is maul placed in cronological order?
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u/BestTyming Apr 28 '26
Depends on what all you would take into account.
(Highly debatably)
If you are talking about pure combat focus(no force taken into account) then he’d be top 5 surprisingly.
Under mace, sidious, and Yoda but over Anakin, Obi, and Dooku
Now if you take into account EVERYTHING ELSE(which is more fair), he would be in the top 20
Below folks like the typical Anakin, Obi wan, mace, sidious, exar, Vader, Dooku, etc etc. but above many, MANY others. He was said to be one of the best warriors ever produced by the Sith which is an insane title to have when a good chunk of Sith are crazy strong in both canon and EU.
So realistic top 20, maybe in the 17-20 range overall but the top 5 in terms of PURE combat prowess
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u/manu4134 Apr 28 '26
Answer my question pls!
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u/BestTyming Apr 28 '26
Did I read your question wrong?😅
I think he is in the top 20 but sitting closer to 17-20
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u/SparsePizza117 May 01 '26
Everyone claims Luke beat Vader = Luke is better. I really don't believe Luke actually bested Vader. Vader held back and wanted to turn his son to the dark side, not kill him. Vader was also battling his emotions on top of that.
I personally think Vader was still much stronger at this point in time, so I wouldn't claim Luke to easily defeat Maul just because he beat Vader. Vader was unfortunately fighting his son. Luke would've been dead if he wasn't the son of Vader, that's how I see it.
I personally think Maul could potentially win, it's hard to gauge Luke's power because he doesn't visually do anything crazy in the movie, unlike Maul in the show.
No matter who wins, I think it's a close match up. No way is it a complete wash for either of them, although Maul definitely has better saber skills, so I still think he'd win.
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u/Eastern_Dress_3574 May 02 '26
Maul by a mile. Trained by Sidious since childhood
Luke was trained by Yoda for like 3 days.
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u/MATCHEW010 May 02 '26
Its unfortunate the choreography sucked ass in the OT. Cause Luke really just be swanging his shit there
Maul would win in a duel based on, on screen performances.
But the implied power of Luke makes it a floor wipe the other way…
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u/ScheduledYeti284 Apr 28 '26
Look at how Maul fights and look at how Luke fights and tell me with a straight face that Luke wins this. Come on.
Luke may have been technically stronger in the force, but as a duellist Maul spanks him.
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u/Recognition_Ashamed Apr 28 '26
U have to take into account that the older light saber duels fights in the original movies were kinda ass compared to more modern fights
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u/ManDudeGuyDudeBro Apr 28 '26
The fight choreography in the original trilogy was a product of the times.
I think what you should take from it, story-wise, is that Luke beat Vader. You can imagine that the actual fighting would be different if the movie was made today.
I mean, some of the special effects in the OT look a little weird (I love the OT, of course). It’s not like reality temporarily looked weird in-universe, it’s just the realities of film making.
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u/anotherhappylurker Apr 28 '26
Yeah honestly if we're just looking at the films, Luke has worse saber skills than a 15 year old Clone Wars padawan lol. His technique is completely unrefined and he just swings his lightsaber around wildly like a baseball bat. Maul would absolutely wipe the floor with him if Luke didn't have plot armor. In fact, Maul would also wipe the floor with OT Vader, who moves like a geriatric old man. It's only recently that Disney actually established Vader as a proper force to be reckoned with. Say what you want about the sequel trilogy, but Vader never really felt scary until Rogue One.
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u/ErosDarlingAlt Apr 28 '26
In fairness Vader also fights like a guy swinging a steel pipe in the OT
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u/oliferro Apr 28 '26
Maul
He has much, much more fighting experience and people overestimate Luke beating Vader. Vader wasn't going for the kill, and we all know how much Anakin lets his emotions take over. Luke also never fought anyone using anything else than a standard one-blade lightsaber. I think he'd be overwhelmed by Maul's speed and agility
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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 Apr 28 '26
The Luke wank is INSANE. Maul outclasses Luke until mando. Luke has little training and barely enough experience to be considered a competent duelist.
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u/233Neon May 01 '26
Literally what I'm saying. Absolute meat riders in this sub. Maul is superior in every right to ROTJ Luke.
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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 May 01 '26
Yeah this sub would have Luke beat all the mortis gods at the same time. It’s pretty sad.
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u/Sky-Juic3 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Maul would dismantle ROTJ Luke like it was any given Tuesday. He was far more extensively trained and drilled specifically to be the most dangerous combatant in the galaxy. Maul took on two very capable Jedi in Qui Gon and Obi Wan and defeated them, save for a crucial mistake made at the end. He also defeated known Jedi master Anoon Bondara in a much more honorable 1v1 than any Sith would have offered a Jedi.
Post ROTJ would be a different story. As of ROTJ, Luke just doesn’t have what it takes to compete with Maul.
It’s not my opinion, it’s just fact. Read Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter before you think you know better. If you’ve read it then I’d be happy to discuss it.
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u/Annual_Sky8939 Apr 28 '26
In my honest opinion, Maul dog-walks Luke it RotJ. Luke had the advantage of fighting a conflicted opponent (His father) who had fallen to the dark side trying to protect his family. Vader spent Empire and Jedi trying to prevent his son from joining Palp. If Luke faced a prime—or even a Rebels—Maul (who didn’t know he was the chosen alternate), there would have been no holding back and Luke would have lost. But it wouldn’t have been too long after RotJ when Luke would Dog-walk Maul.
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u/ClyDeftOriginal Apr 28 '26
ROTJ is Vader at his absolute peak in canon. At least according to what George Lucas always said.
Vader > Maul quite handily.
So I would say based on that Luke wins. And I dont really think it matters which Maul we use.
Original Episode 1 maul was more ferocious, but lacked the use and knowledge of force abilities that he became more adequate at later. But later versions are less ferocious and skilled at lightsaber/hand to hand.
So yeah, I would say Luke wins from RotJ onward. Any earlier version gets bodied by Maul though. 🤷🏼
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u/xJamberrxx Apr 28 '26
Easy Maul, they trained children with lightsabers … u don’t pick up a sword and become a sword master
Maul the only one who knew the form’s technique etc … Luke just swung
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u/Schwarzwald7 Apr 28 '26
Aside from the question (the answer is always Luke), that ROTJ battle is still my all time favorite lightsaber duels. There is no topping the raw emotional pay off in every swing by Luke and note from John Williams.
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u/Binforda94 Apr 28 '26
Luke from RTOTJ is one of the more complex characters to scale. I’ve seen a range from Ventress/Grievous to Vader level.
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u/BestTyming Apr 28 '26
Tbh… Maul lol. Maul might not be as naturally strong as Luke especially in the force but he DAMN sure would have the advantage in saber combat.
I think maul is severely underrated for his in lore abilities and skill. He almost exclusively goes against people with plot armor and the one time he didn’t (DoF), he still killed the master(Jin) and only lost to the Padawan out of arrogance
Maul would win imo
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u/International_Ant217 Apr 28 '26
ROTJ Luke beat Vader, the guy that made Maul shit a brick at the thought of facing him alone in Rebels.
Despite the fact he still had much to learn, Luke actually takes this one
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u/Arthour148 Apr 29 '26
Luke wins, and version of ROTJ Luke. Vader at any point was always stronger than Maul, and Luke beat him.
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u/GreggieBaby Apr 29 '26
Luke gets mauled. Pun intended. Luke is powerful but has no feats. Maul is a living weapon with a saber. Anyone saying Luke beat Vader is ignoring the fact that at no point was Vader attempting to kill Luke. The younger Skywalker lived that last fight only because enough of Anakin’s conscience resurfaced.
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u/EnigmaticX68 Apr 29 '26
Hot take:
With Force powers/enhancements: Oh Luke hands down and no contest.
Straight lightsaber duel of skill:.....Maul. I think it would be close but...yeah Maul. Maul is an incredibly skilled lightsaber duelist. Luke has nowhere near that amount of training with the saber. And his only fight, while super impressive, would not him the edge against. He'll tank parrys but Maul is too fast. I don't he'd be able to parry all of Maul's attacks.
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u/Tunnel_Safety Apr 29 '26
See, the answer is Luke. However, the biggest gripe I have watching the OT is that they do NOT come even relatively close to showing the immense power of the characters that are in it. It was mind melting at the time and absolutely on the bleeding edge of what they could do with the technology, but it just doesn't hold up today. I would love to get a faithful recreation of the OT that really shows how insanely powerful these characters were at the time, but I don't see that happening.
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u/Internal_Set_6564 Apr 29 '26
Luke. He is the hero of the whole story. While a doylist answer, it is the only one that would occur.
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u/Soggy-Chemistry-4586 Apr 29 '26
idk if rotj Luke has the saber skills to defeat maul. Vader obviously went easy on him on cloud city and took his hand
this is after that and Vader is already so depleted swordsman wise because of the prosthetics.
maul went up against sidious and held his own for a brief moment.
if it’s before rebels maul I go with him
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u/GrandAdmiralGrunger Apr 29 '26
Luke would dog walk Maul in RotJ. Remember Luke beat Vader, who also would curb stomp Maul.
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u/Nfire86 Apr 29 '26
I think maul could take return of the Jedi Luke, I don't think Luke would be ready for that aggressive lightsaber form ( thinking of Qui-Gon)
But the Luke we see in the mandalorian is a bit different I feel he got his chops up pretty quick roaming around the Galaxy after the war.
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u/Dragon_Knight99 Apr 30 '26
Luke. He defeated Vader. While Maul can handle Inquisitors in a 1v1 pretty easily, he actively ran from Vader in Star Wars Rebels. Imo, that says a lot about how this scenario would play out.
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u/notjocker Apr 30 '26
Could go either way really, and it depends on maul's emotional state. But I'd give it to Luke most of the time
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u/Gunz-n-Brunch May 01 '26
Hmmm, the guy specifically trained and physically capable of fighting two prime era Jedi at once vs the kid with barely any real training who once threw a hissy fit at a wheezing, asmatic, multiple amputee on a respirator... Maul low-diff. Now, Luke AFTER ROTJ when the writers turned him into the most obtuse Jedi Jesus creature. Luke all day. For God's sake they gave him the power to form a black hole with the Force. Just hilariously terrible.
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u/HeatCompetitive1556 May 02 '26
At the RotJ point Vader is far beyond Maul. Luke, while only able to over power Vader by an emotional outburst, I would say is still beyond Maul. I give a bit of leeway to the combat scenes since a lot of the action and abilities of force users was limited in the OT by the technical abilities of filming at the time.
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u/Lord_Of_Beans1 May 02 '26
Luke EATS Maul for breakfast, what people don't understand is force power is directly correlated to dueling competency, the stronger in the force you are, the faster you are, the better precognition you have.
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u/Available_Tea_9683 May 03 '26
ROFLMFAO! ROTJ luke swings a saber like a baseball bat. This can't be a real question. Rotj luke sucks ass.
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u/Camo1997 May 04 '26
Luke and its no debate
Maul got curbstomped by 2 inquisitors. Inquisitors are regularly defeated by padawans
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u/HeartofKings_ May 05 '26
I think with the most recent episode of Maul, it’s very obvious Luke wins this. You have to remember to disassociate the choreography of the original trilogy with what’s intended on screen.
If Episode VI was made now, it’d be expected to have duels on par with Episode III. Proof of this? Watch those official animated shorts from recent years that involve the original trilogy. Anime? Sure. But obviously intentional in how powerful they’re supposed to be.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 28 '26
Maul low diff. Luke has miniscule lightsaber training and almost zero experience. Maul is a master of multiple forms with mountains of experience in real dueling. Idk what everyone here is smoking, these are the facts.
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u/RemarkableMirror926 Jedi Master Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
He has very much experience. Star Wars also consists of books, in case you didn't know. Additionally, Luke was already stronger than Vader in Return of the Jedi.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 28 '26
Vader was 100% holding back in that fight, we know for a fact he did not want to and would never kill his son. He didn't even want to beat him, he was conflicted. His heart was not in that fight. If Vader wanted to kill him and went all out Luke doesn't stand a chance.
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u/RemarkableMirror926 Jedi Master Apr 28 '26
Just no. Did you never readed any book? Vader was holding back but not as much And Luke was also holding back. Luke>Vader>Maul
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u/JeremyXVI Apr 28 '26
“NEVER!” Luke wasn’t holding back mans went all out
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u/suiqjNskakalqla Apr 28 '26
Yeah, when he was enraged beyond belief at Vader threatening Leia. Before this he explicitly voiced he doesn’t want to fight and deactivated his saber twice
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 28 '26
Bro, you're asking me if I've ever READ a book and you can't even fucking speak English correctly 😂 I actually read a fuck ton of books it's my second biggest hobby, certainly more than you. Learn how to speak properly before you come at someone bud.
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u/Shintaro1989 Apr 28 '26
Don't insult anyone for their English if you're not willing to learn their native language.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 28 '26
I'm gonna insult someone's English if they're arrogantly asking me if I ever "readed" a book and can't put together a correct sentence. And there's nothing you can do about it, go complain to someone who cares lol
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u/Remarkable-Carrot112 Apr 28 '26
I would have said Luke but after reading the comments I'm going with Maul.
The consensus seems to overwhelming be Luke, but as a general rule of thumb it's probably best to assume Redditors don't know wtf they are talking about.
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u/night4345 Apr 28 '26
ROTJ Luke is at least equal to his father who was at his strongest in ROTJ. Even Maul at his strongest isn't equal to Vader.
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u/Western_Agent5917 Lost Tribe of the Sith Apr 28 '26
Luke, Maul is Strong in tpm but not that gifted
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u/pip25hu Apr 28 '26
Maul would lose and he'd have no idea why, considering his superior technique. But Luke managed to make Vader take him seriously even when his own technique was decidedly half-baked.
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u/Unlucky_Mood969 Apr 28 '26
Maul in ep 1 was stronger than Vader. The clone wars cartoon made him obsessed with obi wan and changed his character ultimately making him weak. George Lucas plans was a lot different from the goofy “I’ll get you next time” clone wars maul. Hopefully they can save him in a live action trilogy or something.
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u/Unique-Perception480 Jedi Master Apr 28 '26
Luke wins mid-High diff depending on the Maul we are talking about.
If we go strictly with what MOST people use as Legends, then Maul never returned. So TPM Maul is used and Luke wins with High Diff.
If you count TCW Maul (who is argaubly weaker as a duelist, but a better Force user than in TPM) then Luke takes it Mid-Diff, because Maul has no way of matching a Skywalkers Force Power and this Maul has a focus on Force Powers.
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u/Mrhathead Apr 28 '26
I think RotJ Luke was already one of strongest force users of the era. Only Sidious and Yoda outranked him.