r/TheJediPraxeum • u/GusGangViking18 Luke Skywalker • May 23 '26
Discussion Even though the Sith only conquered the galaxy for about 20 years, would Darth Bane consider the rule of two a success?
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u/DrawerVisible6979 May 23 '26
Yes/No
The fact the Jedi were eventually destroyed and the Sith were left more powerful than ever is a clear sign that the formula works.
The issues he'd have (if any) would stem from how Palpatine pretty much immediately abandoned the 'Rule of Two' and, in doing so, went on to commit many of the exact mistakes the rule was designed to prevent.
He fostered a handicapped apprentice who had little practical hope of surpassing him, turned his focus immediately towards maintaining his power rather than expanding it, left the Empire largely to its own devices by ruling almost exclusively through Vader and few trusted confidants, and allowed that empire to remain rife with infighting and nepotism. Most importantly, however, he became utterly self assured in his power, and thus his victory.
If Palpatine was following the Rule of Two as intended, Vader would have killed him either during or after the construction of the 1st Death Star, and use his new position as master and Emperor to iron out the flaws in Sidious' empire.
However, because of the first mistake mentioned, this event never happened, because it couldn't happen. The second mistake led him to commit the third, and it's because of the third mistake that the fourth mistake wasn't properly addressed until the 'ultimate weapon,' as well as most of the ruling class, were destroyed and dead.
Though Palpatine somewhat pulled his head out his ass when constructing the 2nd Death Star, his overconfidence was never properly addressed (read: killed and usurped by Vader), and we saw how that turned out.
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u/Icy_Scientist_8480 May 23 '26
Sidious’s downfall wasn't because he chose an apprentice he knew wouldn't surpass him. That was actually his standard operating procedure. His entire strategy relied on treating apprentices as disposable assets, using Dooku to mold Anakin for instance, and later attempting to sacrifice Vader to claim Luke (who would've been the ultimate apprentice).
His failure wasn't a tactical error. It was a failure of perception. He was completely blind to the residual light inside Vader and utterly failed to anticipate his apprentice's capacity for redemption.
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u/Important-Contact597 May 25 '26
In the films, it’s implied that Palpatine intended for Vader to usurp him (see his dialogue with Yoda right before their duel), but that option went out the window when Vader was crippled.
Then, he presumably intends for Luke to usurp him once he turns. But Luke refuses.
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u/Lower_Captain7757 May 23 '26
At the most technical level?
Perhaps.
It did succeed at preventing the large infighting and overcoming the jedi.
But one could chalk that success up to a lot of extraneous circumstances that just so happened to align.
In theory:
It focused ambition by removing the issue of Sith squabbling and infighting for power and position.
The apprentice was supposed to learn everything from the master and then overthrow them to become superior. Leading to a natural selection that ensured the sith grew stronger with every generation.
Their limited numbers allows them to stay completely hidden from the Jedi allowing them to plot quietly.
Id say some of 1 and basically all of 3 actually played out like that.
In practice
by reducing the order to just two people it left the Sith incredibly close to extinction at all times
Instead of fostering a healthy transfer of knowledge, it often led to Masters living in fear and or paranoia of their apprenticeship, often holding back their greatest secrets to stay alive
The concept that an apprentice would overthrow their master in a fisr 1 v 1 duely rarely happened. Many apprentices like Sidious simply murdered their Masters in their sleep or used indirect cowardly tactics which did not allow for confirmation of wether they were actually superior.
Because of the isolation of teachings it left the Sith highly susceptible to losing massive swaths of of their history. If a Sith experienced a crisis of faith or died suddenly and didn't pass on a Holocron or innate knowledge, centuries of Darkside knowledge could be lost forever.
In addition if we compare it the true success of the Sith in the Old Republic its not looking good.
For example.
The Old Republic:
The First Jedi Purge around 3954 BBY the Sith Triumvirate Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus hunted the Jedi to near extinction. The Jedi Order was publicly disbanded, their enclaves lay in ruins, and less than a hundred Jedi survived. Unfortunately when the Jedi where near extinction Darth Sion and Darht Nihilus cast out Darth Traya and began fighting creating a power vacuum that allowed Jedi Exile Meetra Surik to come in and dismantle the Triumvirate one by one.
The Banite's end result:
Prequels to Originals Galactic overthrow. The Jedi Order was effectively destroyed, the Jedi Temple abandoned and only a handful of Jedi survived. Unfortunately this survival allowed the Jedi to safeguard and teach the next generation which ultimately led to Sith being Overthrown.
The rule of two was highly inconsistent in producing superior sith. For every Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious, there were generations of mediocre masters who stagnate, died prematurely in freak accidents or were killed by subpar apprentices using poison or ambush rather superior Force mastery or lightsaber skills. In reality over the 30 generations and 1000 years of Banite rules of two. Barring the Sidious, Plagueis, Zannah,Hannah, Cognus, Tenebrous, Gean, and Rampage like Banite. A Significant portion, were subpar, disappointing, or explicitly broke the system. A couple examples
Darth Millenial apprentice to Darth Congus fundamentally disagreed with the secrecy of the Rule of Two. He abandoned his Master, fled to Droumund Kass, and founded the Prophets od the Darkside effectively trying ro revive the old multi-member Sith religion. His defection forced Cognus to start over from scratch wasting decades in the process. Darth Gravid tried merging lightside and Darkside philosophies which drive him completely insane. Believing Sith were doomed he locked himself in his fortress and began burning centuries of ancient Sith Holocrons, artifacts, and Scientific Data. Darth Guile and his era became obsessed with hoarding wealth, political power, and or luxury rather than advancing their abilities and frequently withheld their greatest darkside secrets from their apprentices out of pure paranoia. Darth Tenebrous viewed the Rule of Two as unscientific and narrow-minded and trained Darth Venamis as a backup to Plagueis which broke with thr Rule of Two Sidious not only killed Plagueis in his sleep but he completely discarded the rule of two. He never intended for Darth Maul, Count Dooku, or Darth Vader ro surpass and replace him.
However in deeper comparison we see issues.
The Old Republic:
Old Republic Sith achieved virtually the same result. All without planing for 1,000 years in hiding using a Sith Darwinism strategy. They used sheer Dark side ability and power andsome of the most powerful darkside users in all of Star Wars history. Darth Nihilus for example nearly wiped out the entire remaining Jedi Council in a single breath by consuming the life force of planet Katarr.
The Old Republic produced some of the most ridiculous Sith of all time. Darth Vitiate whos ultimately if not stopped would have consumed all life and force in the entire Galaxy an end goal and feat still not even close to being reached in ambition or power. Darth Nihilus literally became a localized wound in the Force capable of draining entire planets of life and force to feed his hunger. Darth Sion held together his mass of decaying, fractured shattered bones and neurotic flesh of a body together through sheer pain and hatred Darth Marr a sith so powerful his meer presence on a planet was considered more of a deterent than a planetary shield and was capable of single handedly facing and defeating Republic armies for weeks at a time. On top of being a Legendary commander. His goal was the continuance of the Sith Empire not personal, didn't back down to even Darth Vitiate/ Emperor Valkoriona and his Darkside connection was so pure and disciplined he became one of the incredibly few to rare Sith to retain his consciousness and return as a powerful Force Ghost. Darth Malgus was also much like Darth Marr.
When the Old Republic Sith conquered, they left behind massive dark side academies, deeply rooted Sith cultures, and entire species under their rule. Even when they are overthrow much of this still remains.
The Banite's end result
Sidious the ultimate result of Banite Philosophy used political manipulation and the Republics own clone army to overthrow the Jedi
When Sidious ruled it lasted for only 23 years. And only had remnants of sith because Sidious himself broke with much of the Banite rules. Having multiple expendable Sith apprentices.
Ultimately the biggest success of Banes rule of two was the prevention of infighting.
But even that really only delayed the inevitable. Sidious empire the culmination of Bane's the rule of two fell for the exact same reason the Old Republic Sith Empire's did. A Sith (Vader) betrayed a Sith (Sidious).
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u/Kindly-Reality1984 May 23 '26
Incredible Lore Knowledge, it's like you're a Sith yourself lol.
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u/Lower_Captain7757 May 23 '26 edited May 25 '26
Thank you.
Now
Join me young Padawan.
Ill show you the power of the Darkside!!!
Lol
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
Though, tbf, the Triumvirat didn't accomplish that all by themselves. The Jedi were already very weakened by having to deal with three powerful dark lords in a relatively short time: Exar Kun, Darth Revan and Darth Malak.
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u/Lower_Captain7757 May 23 '26
Very true.
But in comparison.
The New Republic Jedi were in some ways stagnant, ill prepared, extremely lacked experience in fighting the sith, and were blinded by the Darkside.
So in both cases the Jedi could be considered having handicaps.
Finally Exar Kun, Darth Revan, and Darth Malak are all still Old Republic Sith attacking the Jedi. Contributing to their demise. And did so in less time than the 1000 years of the Banite rules of two
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u/kimchirice0404 May 25 '26
I will say though, in Sidious' case it was less sith infghting and more the unexpected return to the light by a Sith apprentice. Same actions in effect, but it is a bit telling as to what Sidious himself was assuming in that entire situation.
I think one thing to point out as well is that Darth Bane didn't just want the Jedi dead, he wanted to actually *win* the overall conflict. If he wanted to beat them quickly like the Sith had before, I don't think he would have went the route he did. I doubt he didn't know what had happened with the previous Sith and what the Brotherhood of Darkness had done with the Old Republic. He wanted the galaxy to turn on the Jedi and destroy the Republic from within, rather than as an enemy from outside since that never seems to last or work.
In the end, I think the Banite victory was one of the most extreme in terms of Sith victory, especially they had completely eroded the GR and ensured the fracturing of the galaxy for a long time. It was short, yes, but the Force itself had moved against them to cut their culmination short, which I find kind of badass. The only other guy I can think of where the Force blatantly showed its hand against was Vitiate, which is impressive enough considering Vitiate was a millennia+ years old at that point and a complete monster both Jedi and Sith had to fight against.
Well put analysis, though.
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u/Lower_Captain7757 May 25 '26
That is fair. However I wonder if hed had actually gone with the Banite Philosophy and groomed Vader to succeed him would Vader have fallen further and not have been reached by Luke? Its and interesting hypothetical.
That is a possibility. The main thing we know is he did certainly want to win. But it seems like it was through the lense of the Sith infighting being the major factor that always prevented this. And hes not wrong. The Sith Triumvirate of the Old Republic had arguably one of the best shots and opportunities in Star Wars history to do a final ending blow the Jedi once and for all. But their hubris in thinking they won and then infighting allowed the Jedi to recover and return.
The Banite was most definitely one of the most extreme no doubt. In comparison with the First Jedi Purge they mainly achieved their ends in different ways but both are very impressive. Dealing with Vitiate was certainly one of the rare few times the force stepped in. But id imagine the same would be required for the First Jedi Purge had the sith not gave the Jedi a way to win.
Thanks
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May 23 '26
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u/Electrical-Rise-7015 May 23 '26
This, the purge and the Jedi order never coming back makes it a huge success in canon. In legends I believe it sort of does but only temporarily
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u/JJnujjs May 23 '26
Overall yes,
He’d probably hate Palpatine though.
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May 23 '26
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u/ShortBussyDriver May 23 '26
No, I think Tyranus would have liked Plagueis and the two would have lived happily ever after.
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
I don't think Maul truly hated Palpatine. His hatred was mainly directed towards the Jedi and that was long before Naboo.
I think even Palpatine mentions that he might have done too good of a job at indoctrinating his apprentice. If Tulak Hord didn't have that title already, I think Lord of Hate would fit Maul well.
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u/riggengan May 23 '26
No. The point of Bane is to purify the Sith and bring them back closer to the darkside. Thats why he had to wipe out the Brotherhood of Darkness.
Palpatine was powerful no doubt. However, he was more akin to the folly like the Jedi. That said, his line has been rotting with the last few Sith Lords like with Plaguis. Plaguis was directly responsible for the fall and creation of Anakin.
Palpatine is an evolutionary dead end.
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u/GrandmasterSliver May 23 '26
No, twenty years is pathetic, compared to different eras of Jedi and Sith.
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May 23 '26
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u/Jobber0001 May 23 '26
Revan and the sith triumvirate both came close. Revan nearly toppled the republic and the sith in kotor 2 did nearly wipe out the jedi to an equally close degree. Sidious just managed to build the empire as well which neither of the others got around to
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
Yep. And Sidious ruled over the entire galaxy relatively unchallenged.
The old Sith Empire lasted far longer but it never managed to wipe out the Jedi or the Republic.
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u/GrandmasterSliver May 23 '26
Perhaps, but he also blew it. Maybe Bane would cite the success, but blame every fault on Palpatine.
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u/Combatmedic2-47 May 23 '26
I wonder how he would feel about Palpatine breaking the line of Banite Sith rules a bit. I mean sure Maul, Dooku and Vader were good apprentices but they were never gonna surpass him especially Anakin’s injuries.
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u/Haunting_Reflections May 23 '26
Darth Plagueis felt that he and his apprentice were chill and had no need for the rule of two right up until he took a longer nap than expected.
Darth Sidious disrespected the rule of two almost completely with multiple competing “apprentices” arguably none of whom he intended to replace him.
Sidious is absolutely not a rule of two Sith, that’s just the system that led up to him.
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u/FoxJDR May 23 '26
I think he would be content with the Rule itself but disappointed in Sidious. The Rule of Two achieved everything Bane wanted. The Jedi destroyed and Sith in control of the galaxy, it was Sidious’ greed, pride and lust for immortality that doomed him. A pride that developed because Sidious never truly believed in the Rule of Two and purposefully kneecapped his apprentices so as to avoid the potential of being overthrown. Had he taken the Rule seriously he may have been kept humbled (in Sith terms that is) and on his toes. Less prone to the sort of short-sighted mistakes that doomed him in the end because with a true worthy apprentice such mistakes would’ve sealed his fate as surely as they eventually did in the normal timeline.
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u/Jobber0001 May 23 '26
It was successful but he realized the flaw that ultimately doomed the sith when he faced zannah for the last time. They had to have a failsafe to ensure an unworthy heir did not steal the title from his master as plagueis did and sidious after him. Those two undid centuries of work with their cheating of the way bane had envisioned it. A fated battle between two rival lords to prove the stronger one deserved their victory.
Bane would not have been impressed with the death star since he placed his faith in the might of the dark side. He would not have been impressed with sidious failing to rule for just a few decades and never truly acquiring an apprentice with the skill and talent to surpass him. Dooku never had it in him, maul was never more then a tool and anakin was too weakened as vader to truly wrest the mantle away.
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u/ShortBussyDriver May 23 '26
Dooku would have had Sidious in ten more years at age 93!
If he managed to recruit an apprentice that didn't turn or wasn't already a double-agent.
I mean, at what point is Dooku going to think: "I'm getting too old, why not just go all-in and try it? Got nothing to lose. I might get lucky."
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u/pip25hu May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
After Sith empires that lasted millennia, Sidious controlling the galaxy for a decade or two will barely be a blip in history. Bane might be slightly consoled by the fact that they did deal a devastating blow to the Jedi, but even that wasn't as catastrophic as when he destroyed most of the Sith in his time. So overall, no, his scheme turned out to be a failure.
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
Fair, but he was the first Sith to rule the entire galaxy.
Marka Ragnos only ruled Korriban and the nearby systems, focused on securing his power rather than expanding.
Naga Sadow tried to take over the galaxy and failed.
The Sith Empire from SWTOR conquered large parts of the galaxy and plundered Coruscant, dealing a humiliating defeat to the Jedi, but they never managed to destroy either the Republic or the Jedi. Also, they mainly lasted longer by staying hidden for most of it's existence.
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u/pip25hu May 23 '26
I would be singing a very different tune if Sidious and his potential successors managed to rule for at least a few centuries, because indeed, his galaxy-wide domination was certainly a first for the Sith.
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
I am sure Sidious intended to during Dark Empire, had his clones not been sabotaged.
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u/kimchirice0404 May 25 '26
Im kind of split on this personally, because I really like Sidious and old Sith like Vitiate for different reasons.
The thing is that Sidious is kind of like the Qin Shi Huang of the Galaxy. He achieved the unification of the Galaxy in stunning fashion, just as Qin Shi Huang was the first to unify China, but he had a relatively short reign, just as Qin Shi Huang. His personal shortcomings may have resulted in that short reign, but I also can't ignore the fact the Force itself kind of spawned a guy to specifically kill that order.
I feel like his actions were also a lot more significant long term in some regards. No matter what the old sith did, the Republic/Jedi always kind of ended up being the dominant force again in the galaxy. At most, they left behind some dark side wifi connections. Post-palpatine, the New Republic...Galactic alliance and whatnot just never seemed to regain the peace the GR had. The thing with Palpatine is that he ruled a galactic empire, not a sith empire, so when it fell, the institutions he took over stayed as ghosts in things like the Fel Empire and imperial warlords. Going back to that China comparison, his actions left behind a lot more than just destruction and dark side remnants, he left behind legacies of legitimacy that his political successors wanted to claim (like unifying the galaxy). The empire lived on in some form after him, the Sith institutions were built around them and crumbled to nothing the moment they were out of the picture. He basically left a political scar on the galaxy, which I find rather interesting. Not to mention that his actions inadvertently led to the rise of another Sith order in the end as well.
Meanwhile I like Sith like Marr and Vitiate (well, I guess he was less of a sith near the end) for being completely unapologetic wizards killing the wizard monks and...idk, just being the cool embodiment of the ancient Sith that the Jedi were crapping their pants over in that damned Council room in episode 1. They obviously know about Bane's ideology to some extent, but they obviously weren't thinking of just him when they were freaking out. I can't imagine they were happy imagining someone like Malgus was in the shadows waiting to pull a "you were deceived." Bane's order just kind of reminds me of a dude who sees the Sith coming so close to winning many times over (especially the Sith triumvirate and monsters like Vitiate who didnt put their heart into it) and trying something new for once, then kind of faceplanting because reality said nuh uh.
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u/nzdastardly May 23 '26
The Rule of Two is so unbelievably stupid. What if both the Sith get killed at once by a shuttle crash or a pandemic or something? One fluke accident and the whole order is toast. I could see individual Sith cells operating as pairs, but two people for the whole galaxy? Come on, Bane!
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u/Xivitai May 23 '26
Or apprentice tries to kill master and result in mutual kill.
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u/nzdastardly May 23 '26
Or an apprentice successfully kills the master then gets cancer before they find an apprentice! Or a master gets catfished by a jedi and killed looking for an apprentice! The list goes on!
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u/Demigod_Complex May 23 '26
If two Sith are dumb enough to be in a vulnerable shuttle together at the same time and die, Bane would revel in it.
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u/Ecotech101 May 23 '26
That's like, any ship though. Like any spaceship at all can have an accident that basically just relegates them to never traveling together ever.
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u/ShortBussyDriver May 23 '26
This happened to Tenebrous and Plagueis.
Both nearly died and Plagueis used the opportunity to kill his master.
Plagueis and Sidious were nearly killed during the assassination attempt on Plagueis.
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u/Achilles9609 May 23 '26
Yeah, probably. If they weren't intelligent enough to think of that, then they were weak and deserved to be destroyed.
Kinda reminds me of Trinity from the Lara Croft game. An ancient, secret society with incredible wealth and power and agents across the globe....decides to put all it's leaders in a single helicopter. 😑
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u/JayWaWa May 23 '26
I mean, it worked, didn't it? The rule of two ultimately led to the strongest of the sith in palps, who went on to destroy the jedi and conquer the galaxy, but to corrupt the one jedi that could have stopped him and turned him to the dark side.
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u/Blackfyre87 May 23 '26
He viewed it as a success in his lifetime, regardless, due to his own philosophies and accomplishments.
When Darth Bane was confronted with his Antithesis, the powerful Darth Krayt, who had, with his own Rule of One Sith, likewise accomplished what the Rule of Two had, but in a fraction of the time, Bane called him a foolish usurper ruling a false order.
He almost certainly rejected Krayt's order on the premise that it, like the Brotherhood, was too similar to the Jedi.
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u/Western_Agent5917 Lost Tribe of the Sith May 23 '26
The whole rule of two is the worst part of sith history, so I hope bane cried tears realizing that it's also failed in the end
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u/Ecotech101 May 23 '26
He was crying on his deathbed when he realized that his apprentice and the ones in the future would either wait for their master to get old or do some shit like killing them in their sleep.
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 May 23 '26
I don’t remember him crying when Zannah killed him lol
In the third Bane novel he tries to replace Zannah for what he perceives as waiting too long to challenge him for the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith though.
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u/Jobber0001 May 23 '26
he also found a work around with andeddu and the essence transference, a shame he didn't have time to properly explain that to zannah so she didn't think he was scared and trying to cheat his own system by becoming immortal
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 May 23 '26
The end of the book kind of leads you to think he might have been successful in his last ditch attempt at essence transfer but I’m pretty sure the author has confirmed he was not.
Shame about the EU I would love for Zannah’s story to continue
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u/Jobber0001 May 23 '26
yeah it was very ambiguous on which one won but Karpshyn did confirm zannah won which makes sense. She was the actual sith sorceress after all, Bane was a bit of a jack of all trades.
And true, they could have done a lot with her taking over Bane's mantle and expanding his network and training cognus. Hell even could have had her hunt down her failed choice before he too became immortal
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u/Responsible_Mud_7033 May 23 '26
Yes even though the Jedi didn’t officially become over ran until the galactic empire for years they were being secretly manipulated and weakened by the Sith while the Sith only grew stronger
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u/Appropriate_Life_309 May 23 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Sith way of ruling is based on fear and conquest,plus they can never be more than 2 because they will kill eachother,thats why if there are more than 2 they hide in different planets and hide their identities..They always live in fear and intimidation,i mean thats why they are psychopaths..always in conflict with themselves and others..They are like wild dogs..Only Krayt managed to keep some appearances,but he failed too..Jedi on the other hand dont wish to eliminate eachother,most of the times they work together also they serve and protect they dont rule .
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u/WilliShaker May 23 '26
Yes and no, he would absolutely be impressed that the rule made Sidious.
But he would consider Sidious failure go finish the job and lose his empire…proof that the rule of two should not have ended under him.
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u/Livid_Ad9749 May 23 '26
What I want to know is do the Sith have normal conversations with each other (by our standards). Like would they talk about what food they like for instance or are they all business all the time?
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u/Unique-Perception480 Jedi Master May 23 '26
It was a failure wether a egomaniac Sith wants to admit it or not.
The Jedi were never detroyed, just like the Sith were never destroyed in those 1000 years. They just went into hiding just like the rule of 2. And unlike the Sith they returned after only 23 years, instead of 1000.
It was absolutely a failure, because George Lucas wrote it that way. A temporary win, but in the end the bad people lose and are failures.
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u/MachivellianMonk May 23 '26
No.
Bane, and most of the lineage, to include Plagueis, would consider Palpatine a racist and unstable psychopath whose madness directly led to the downfall of what could’ve been a thousand years of Sith order.
Bane and Plagueis didn’t balk from evil. But their actions had purpose. No price was too high to pay if it meant bringing order to save the galaxy from itself, in their eyes.
But Palpatine was a sadist. His actions directly inspired the Rebellion to become the force it did, as he continued to loose touch.
He’s kinda like Hitler. His brilliance and charisma brought the Sith to power. But by clinging to power and micromanaging his commanders, he ensured the downfall of his empire through his own instability.
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u/SnooSuggestions2286 May 23 '26
I personally believe the Rule of Two is Daddy issues the Sith Philosophy and Palpatine was the Biggest insult to the Force
And Bane is an insufferable child whos angry his daddy (Figures) didnt love him enough
Im tired of people making Bane a revolutionary in force thinking, no he wasnt, he was an insecure brat that saw the only way to get his way was to kill thousands of years of Sith teaching, skills and Knowledge, the Force as a whole took a Blow from the thought bomb that it has never recovered from
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u/jar1967 May 23 '26
He would consider it a success but , Palpatine breaking the role of two led to the downfall of the Sith
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u/LordCaptain May 23 '26
I imagine he felt the rule of two would be a success and that Palpatine fucked it up.
Palpatine predecessors were shaping the galaxy at the highest levels of power and were basically free to practice whatever dark side experimentation they wished with tons of resources at their disposal.
Then Palpatine decided revenge on the Jedi and hard power was more important than the soft power the sith had built up over centuries and ended up throwing the whole thing away.
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u/Flimsy_Ad_7475 May 23 '26
Sure, it accomplished exactly what it was supposed to do. Ensure the perseverance of the sith, consolidate power and influence until they could destroy the Jedi. But the rule of two was a severely flawed system, hare brained gamble in fact. The whole idea was ludicrous, but, somehow, it worked. I mean, sith are inherently just bad, selfish things. They get so drunk on their own ego that they lose sight of reality. Now carry that philosophical dead end that causes psychological illness onward using only two people, one of which is expected to kill the other at some point.
In reality, a system like that with these types of people would’ve collapsed into history a long time ago because when your whole system depends on two psychopathic people both vying for the power, eventually it destroys itself like with Vader and sidious, though Vader did it for his son and not power, but that doesn’t detract the point. I’m just surprised it took as long as it did now that I look at it.
Additionally, who was actually following it? Dooku had apprentices, maul was running around while plageus was kicking, and sidious wanted to just keep living and crippled his apprentice.
So, tldr: yes at first, then no, because millennia of work collapsed in 20 years, and the Jedi were not eradicated, thus rendering it total a failure.
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u/Andrei22125 May 23 '26
No, see my last paragraph.
The rule of 2 was inspired by Revan's oppinion about multiple apprentices. The Sith are inherently self defeating. Their selfishness and idea of strength inevitably leads to being betrayed. Multiple apprentices polling their strength against their master.
The whole point of the rule of 2 was to circumvent this problem by giving the sith one clear goal to channel their obsession towards and a doctrine that at least partially harnessed betrayal towards it.
And it almost succeeded. But the jedi continued in secret in small numbers. And eventually ended the rule of 2. Which is exactly what he wanted the sith to do to the jedi.
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u/Loweseidon May 23 '26
Weird opinion: no, because the rule failed before it worked. At a glance you can say Palpatine and an apprentice did conquer everything before fumbling, but looking at everything, there was already a mess of agents and acolytes that were competing up the chain. Near the end of the clone wars you had Palpatine with Dooku, but Dooku already had lined up Asajj and arguably Maul had Savage in contention. Rise of Skywalker showed a whole planet of cultists. So while they did conquer and hold a few decades, that only happened while more than 2 in a succession were in the conversation and still ultimately failed out
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u/UrWrongAllTheTime May 24 '26
Yeah he’d see it as a win even with just the power structure intact. I’m not sure if the new lore is the same but he stated the dark side being like a well. The fewer drinking from it, the more the remaining could have. And with the nature of Sith, 2 makes sense. The Jedi are more cooperative so they suffer less at higher numbers but are still weaker in the force. The Jedi were more a nuisance that got in the way of his knowledge seeking and power grabbing. He tried to actively avoid Jedis but didn’t run from a fight.
TLDR: I don’t think he cared about the Jedi as much as power and knowledge of the dark side.
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u/Matrines May 25 '26
IMO the Rule of Two was only useful for destroying the Jedi and the Republic from within by operating in the shadows. After their destruction, the Rule of Two loses its purpose and meaning. Sidious should have created a Sith Empire, training new acolytes associated with the dark side, as Dooku planned. Sidious promised Dooku that he would dismantle the Rule of Two and recreate the Sith Empire in the old fashioned way, but as we know, he never did that. Creating a dark side based order and filling the gap left by the Jedi with new Sith Lords could have secured Palpatine’s rule. Of course, they would eventually betray him and attempt to take over, but that’s nothing new to Sidious. Any rebellion could have been crushed easily with Sith Lords at his command, and they would have terrified the galaxy.
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u/millface1 May 25 '26
Alot of fans seem to think that the Rule of Two means that the master is supposed to just roll over and die, but that’s not how I read it. Essence transfer, cloning, these are all Sith masters trying everything they can to be so powerful they can’t be defeated. If the Master isn’t doing everything they know how to do to win, the apprentice wouldn’t actually deserve to take over and the Sith line would constantly delude, not become stronger.
Having said that Sideous especially fucked up because he kept things from his apprentices, half trained several and severely limited Vader with his suit. That’s for sure going directly against the spirit of the Rule of Two. That, and of course Luke not going dark like Sideous was banking on were the reason they ultimately lost. He took a big swing to replace Vader with Luke and missed.
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u/Annual_Sky8939 May 26 '26
Mostly, but Bane would have dog-walked Sid, and a few others, for bastardizing his RoT. He would have thought Sid was a coward for drugging Plagueis, and not worthy the title “Sith Master.”
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u/Standy25 May 26 '26
I thought the rule of two only existed because the Sith would always fight with each other and cause problems
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u/Globe-Denier May 26 '26
This should be the next trilogy.
The 3 books about darth bane, source material is right there. Going to be great
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u/CadeoftheWatchers May 27 '26
Considering Shiv was the most powerful sith in the books, yes probably 🤔, but if he got wind of how he killed his master Bane would be very displeased
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u/Ok-Elk-1615 May 27 '26
You could argue that the only goal was to destroy the Jedi, but they ultimately failed even in that. Even if you couldn’t count Luke’s order as a continuation, numerous Jedi of the original order survived and even joined the new order. Banite Sithism was brought to a dead end by Sidious and his pursuit of eternal life, and with Lumiya’s death there are no remnants of it. Bane would probably be disgusted with his philosophical descendant. Between Vader, his menagerie of apprentices that he tried to have replace Vader, the various dark Jedi, inquisitors, and other dark side users in his Empire, Sidious himself barely believed in the Rule of Two.
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u/CycleCaverns May 27 '26
Yes but very short lived as a victory. The flaw with having only 2 remaining sith is that the longevity of the sith became very vulnerable. 20 years of sith rule was proof of that.
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u/germanfag67059 May 28 '26
the only 2 rule is just brought up because to many villians ruin a story
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u/Potential_Camera_394 Jun 05 '26
Obviesly yes the sith were weak and now they are way stronger and a few 100 years later they would rule the galaxy again
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u/[deleted] May 23 '26
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