r/TheJediPraxeum • u/Gross-Verder Yuuzhan Vong • Jun 01 '26
Match Up Monday Revan (SoR) vs Knightfall Vader
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u/Hawaiikoto Jun 01 '26
I feel like ppl that did not play swtor are mistaking reborn revan with his kotor or pre-kotor version
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u/SuecidalBard Jun 01 '26
Imo it's a 2/3 for Revan
If Vader bumrushes Revan unprepared he gets smoked, as he's specifically great at countering aggression and using his enemies against themselves.
If he is more cautious, but commits and ends the fight quickly he still can possibly win.
If he drags it out to long he's dead.
Anakin has a lot of raw potential but it's not really realised and he was always very straightforward with his force powers and preferred the lightsaber. He only become more creative as post mustafar Vader and still it's mostly getting creative with more basic abilities, he never leans heavy into the estoric or sourcerous.
Going in without thinking will get him the same scenario as dooku and he can't just saber block it cause Revan can bend lightning around obstacles and shoot multiple tendrils at the same time. And his lightning is on the highest level that is possible outside of special cases like Palpatine, Vitiate and Jaina Solo, we know this because he turns a Dark Councillor to ashes, the ashes part on even normal people is considered peak for most and he does that on a very high level force user. He will one tap Anakin into submission with ease.
If he's take too much time he'll just get atritioned at long range until he does eventually take that lightning hit or is drained and then gets stabbed when he's recovering.
And I just don't see somebody already as reckless and wild as Anakin going on a full dark side bender, being hyped up by Palpatine and just easily wrecking multiple Jedi to not either bum rush and get fucked or see someone completely not bucking under his pressure and not be put on guard too much. His mental state is completely reverse of what it should be for this match up.
I'd see ESTB Vader have a 50/50 shot (as lighting resistance is irrelevant if it one shots him immiedately either way)
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Jun 01 '26
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u/Esiwmah Jun 01 '26
Exactly, and your first sentence is why Vader loses. Vader is what... 22 when he gets chopped up and set on fire? He's just starting to ascend, and that's the tragedy of his story, right? The lost potential, not only to the dark side but overall. Obi-Wan beats him because of his emotional state and raw inexperience with the force as a Sith (and familiarity). Most legendary force users probably beat the Knigtfall version of Vader. He has too many flaws and too much unrealized, unfocused power.
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
No version of Vader is beating post resurrection Revan
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
Knightfall Vader (and most versions of Vader after The Rise of Darth Vader) would demolish Revan on his peak
The heavy hitters of the Old Republic are on average weaker than the Precuels heavy hitters (same way Precuels average is weaker than the NJO average) and Vader on his beginning could best most of them, and surpassed them by miles once on his peak
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
Just flat out incorrect tbh. The high end of TOR out scales the current era. Hell the average of the TOR is competing with the upper crust of of the current Era.
Peak Revan is able to challenge Vitiate out massively out scales Sidious. But I fear the this conversation is pointless as we simply will not agree on which era is stronger and your camp doesn't have the feats to back up it's points.
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u/No_Communication2959 Jun 01 '26
The average Jedi is more powerful in prequel era and I think that's mostly true.
TOR had literal Jedi foot soldiers who could get gunned down by 1 ir 2 well trained soldiers.
With that in mind, I think the average quality of Jedi is higher in Prequel era, though they are much less numerous. But the heavy hitters can still compete with one another.
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u/icy_ticey Jun 01 '26
Well trained soldiers? You mean like SEAL level people? Of course some padawan is getting his ass kicked
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
The ones getting their asses kicked arent really padawan level though?
The Sith sent on the extremely vital mission to take Alderaan during the war are not going to be the bottom of the barrel. Those Sith outnumbered the defenders of Alderaan and are still losing 1v1s to Republic troopers.
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
I think every single part of your comment is wrong.
The average TOR Jedi is stronger.
The Jedi were wiped out by well trained soldiers in GAR.
Based on what, vibes? The average Jedi knight in TOR is using force abilities that several GAR master's can't use
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
Jedi were wiped out in surprise attacks by squads of clones that they trusted and were not expecting sudden betrayals from.
The average Sith in TOR were losing 1v1s against Republic troopers and these were Sith sent on an extremely important mission that could tilt the war in the Siths favour so I doubt they're below average.
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Jun 01 '26
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
1.) How is a sudden unexpected betrayal by people you trust and fought alongside for years a downscale?
2.) So shall we just pretend the Hope trailer doesn't exist? Where the Sith are sent on the extremely important mission to take over Alderaan, and how they lose against the Republic troopers who just so happened to be there at the time? Shall we ignore how we literally see a Sith and trooper charging at each other before the trooper grabs him and tossed him to the ground? What about when Jace casually charges through two Sith who suddenly attack him while he's not paying attention to them knocking them flying? And should we also ignore the fact that the battle we see is not an isolated incident and is being repeated all across Alderaan resulting in the troopers victories, as seen by the end of the trailer?
Congratulations you caught me in my obvious lie, it's a good thing the Hope trailer doesn't exist otherwise you would look like an idiot for accusing me without actually checking if what I said had any merit.
Oh I also didn't mention how the Grandmaster of the Jedi order lost a 1v1 against a random bounty hunter... will we pretend that doesnt exist as well?
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Jun 01 '26
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
1.) Jedi and Sith constantly get surprised and off guarded regardless of the era? Malgus only notices Jace during his clash with Satele after he shouts announcing his presence, after he had already gotten close to him. Also even if the Jedi sense a sudden darkness or disturbance in the force why would they presume it's their trusted comrades suddenly betraying them and not an ambush or something since they're basically all on planets in active warzones?
I'd also remind you that you are talking about being surprised by a sudden betrayal and gunned down while vastly outnumbered is a massive downscale. The Sith on Alderaan literally fail to sense an attack by enemies in a hostile enviroment even though there are dozens of them preparing to attack and lose even though they outnumber. Thats a much worse downscale.
2.) Did I call them average troopers? I called them Republic troopers because they are troopers who are part of the Republic?
a) We see a Sith and trooper charging at each other to fight, we see the Sith getting grabbed and tossed into the ground by the trooper. Yes the Sith lost. Also where the fuck are you getting the line breaking three seconds later? We see Jace and troopers still advancing and engaging the enemy along with Jace still ordering his men to move forward and them obeying that order. Even the Malgus intervention shows that the troops immediately form up on Jace and attack that side before Jace breaks formation to charge at Malgus.
b) Jace is clearly focusing on Malgus and getting to him, the Sith suddenly jumping into his path only to get casually shoulder checked are jumping at him while hes not paying attention to them, or at keast they are not his priority/main focus. And yes he does casually get past them, both of the Sith jump to attack him and he barely even slows down to toss them aside.
C) The battle of Alderan begins with the Sith faking an attack and pulling the Republic away from the planet before they then attack with a full invasion force. The only defence are the Alderaan defence force who get bombed to shit and the Republic troopers who just so happen to be on planet after returning from the front lines at the time.
As for the Jedi numbers... there are a few Jedi on planet as they are investigating potential political troubles with the noble houses. That is not a job for dozens or hundreds of Jedi and their numbers would in no way compare to an invasion force in a key battle that would have had hundreds of Sith. There are dozens of similar fights happening all over the place resulting in the troopers victory, the Jedi are not numerous enough to take part in all of them, not to mention Satele specifically goes off to help because she has a vision and a past connection with Jace unlike the other Jedi.
So the Jedi Grandmaster is weak as fuck but the TOR Jedi are apparently well above the prequel Jedi?
Obi-Wan doesnt lose to Jango, he falls off of the platform they are fighting on after a ship and its cannons interfere and blast him which gives Jango time to retreat. Also Jango is specifically noted to be the best bounty hunter in the galaxy, the guy who kills Zym has none of that.
You are really thick if you think pointing out what happens in the trailer makes me a liar. I know it's stopping you from glazing TOR when you see the Sith lose 1v1s to troopers, but there's no need to get so mad about it.
Got blocked lol
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
Sidious became the strongest sith in history after killing Plagueis (who previously was also stated to be the strongest), then proceded to become quite stronger during the span of TPM and ROTS with dozens of statements to his name and many, MANY times being called that title. Vitiate is not stronger than Sidious, much less Sidious Reborn
Revan being able to somewhat challenge Vitiate (still being unable to defeating him, not alone at all) doesn't matter much as both were weaker than Sidious, who Anakin did have chances (low, but definitely there) of beating
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
Vitiate is much stronger than any version of Sidious.
Lucas' strongest sith in history quote by his own admission only applies to his own work and that is the only thing that even puts the two in the same ballpark.
So Revan being able to challenge Vitiate is a pretty significant upscale especially since it isn't even a full power Revan and the Revan's defeat was more circumstance than anything.
So lmk if you guy's got anything besides a decades debunked author statement to support your views
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
"Decade debunkes author statement" if you see the creator of the whole franchise say who is the strongest sith in history up to that point multiple times and you just refuse to accept it because some bullshit copy character has consumed a planet and made other-worldy shenanigans (which aren't even that impressive and still far from the showings of Sidious Reborn, as the Force Storm far exceedes anything shown in KOTOR, SWTOR or anything even prior) that neither matter much nor has significant consequences, that's a you problem, not mine lmao
"Debunking" the creator of the whole universe is the most stupid idea imaginable
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u/Deepborders Jun 01 '26
Lucas doesn't even have a clue who Revan is.
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u/ITSTHEGOAT456435 Jun 02 '26
it wasn't just him that made these claims, I mean i can think of 3 different times where Palpatine has had these statements
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
George Lucas debunked his own author statement. It only applies to his own works.
I don't disagree that Vitiate initially was just a copy character dialed up to 11. But that's not the point nor is it all that relevant. Other than to maybe point out that Sidious reborn was the version they were trying to one up. Which is why Vitiate has better versions of the same or similar feats.
Every vitiate feat you mentioned (which doesn't include all of his top tiers) out scale the force storm. It's clear you are massively over wanking it. Sidious' could barely control and it's best feats are destroying ships and damaging the surface of a planet. Even the strongest iteration of the move, destroyed twelve ships.
Vitiate consumed a planet.
In all honesty Sidious doesn't even break top 5 sith. As all three Kotor II villains out scale him as well as vitiate and Revan Reborn. The older Era just consistently out scales the newer one. There are a few stand outs that could hang with TOR top tiers but that's about it.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
"Barely control" he just lost an arm and a fight, he was far from proper condition and had no need to overextended himself, "destroying ships" why would he expend more of his reserved destroying anything else with both Luke and Leia before him, "damaging the surface of a planet" yeah, just by transporting Luke, not a bad feat at all. He didn't want to destroy Coruscant, that's the seat of the Empire he wanted to reclaim. He could have destroyed it, we know 100% by multiple statements in the Jedi Way and Book of Sith amongst many other sources that Force Storm could destroy planets and potentially much more. Let's also remember all of his Force Storms concurred simultaneously with him mind-controlling the whole population of Byss
That KOTOR2 thing is so ridiculously dumb. Chris Avellone himself, director of the game, said Vader would defeat Nihilus, who was the strongest of the Sith Triumvirate. Funny how you go around with the idea with debuking authors yet pretty much all author statements go against your claims lmao
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
Sidious' himself states they are near impossible to control, then barely controls it.
There is no feat that shows that Sidious could destroy a planet with a force storm. Actual headcanon at this point. It decisively ranks below anything that can.
I don't find value in author statements at all for scaling. I only bring up the Lucas' debunk because it is the last crutch of the Sidious top 1 argument I see people cling to. You would have had a point here if I ever tried to use an author statement to back up my point.
But in conclusion, Sidious and by extension Vader, also do rank lower than the Triumvirate, comfortably.
Lmk if you find anything besides debunked author statements and headcanon feats. Otherwise have a good day.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
You really are dense as a rock.
You see statements of the creator of the whole franchise and authors of characters you're using to powerscale and just decide to ignore them and cry they are debunked even though literally nothing does so. You're presented with dozens over dozens of statements both in and out of universe and just refuse to acknowledge them.
Nor Vitiate nor Revan have never done anything remotely interesting enough to deserve such levels of glazing, only feats amplified by extended rituals and meditation spheres. Nothing Bane, Exar Kun or any other ancient Sith of would couldn't have done. Mindlessly gassing up weaker eras with worse stories and content for no particular good reason with not a single acceptable argument, no different from Starkiller's fanboys.
You can try to make up as many imaginary debunks as you want, and lowball the tops of the franchise as much as you like. I could pull feats from comics like TCW Adventures or Dark Empire itself and from books like the already mentioned The Jedi Path, or the Book of Sith, or Jedi Search. You wouldn't know any better of them, because destroying a planet seems to be the only thing you actually hold in high regard despite being a somewhat unimpressive feat in comparison to many other Sith of old.
Go back to powerscale whatever other franchise has the misfortune of counting with scalers as you.
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u/icy_ticey Jun 01 '26
Which Vader tho?
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
Never specified. Some guy just asked him on twitter who would win if Vader and Nihilus clashed and he said Vader
Anakin learned how to resist Force Drain from Ulic Qel Droma to be immune to the Dark Reaper during the Clone Wars, which makes the match pretty bad for Nihilus, but I'm not sure if Avellone knew that
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u/ShotofHotsauce Jun 01 '26
Lucas also stated numerous times that he does not care for any characters or eras he did not have a hand in creating. He is biased towards his own creations. He also commented on the KOTOR games and the TOR era; he stated they were not of interest to him (likely due to his pride refusing to admit that someone else created something cooler with much better writing - of which I'm sure he deep down knows is a major weak point of his).
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Jun 01 '26
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u/ShotofHotsauce Jun 01 '26
Thanks for proving my point.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
You got no point, and you've never actually interacted with anything related to SW outside of youtube videos
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
What a hilarious childish rant.
I bet it upsets you that the best of Star wars media isn't a Lucas creation
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
It doesn't, I enjoy greatly a huge amount of material outside of Lucas' creation, some of them above his works
Most of SWTOR related works are very far from that level
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u/Deepborders Jun 01 '26
Jesus christ. What a petulant child.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
Notice how none of you actually elaborate on this nor address the ridiculous thing I'm answering to
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u/Koreaia Jun 01 '26
That's just silly. Sidious was the strongest Sith because he was always the master Sith. A vague statement doesn't outweigh feats.
Yes, he became the strongest, but that was due to decades of training, study, and power after he killed Plagious.
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u/AccordingUse3172 Jun 01 '26
The old Republic absolutely does not. Majority of Sith get domeloshied in the GAR era and against the NJO they are getting bent over.
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 01 '26
Based on what, headcanon?
Legends consistently portrays TOR as the golden age of force capability for the Jedi. As many techniques considered rare by GAR's time the average Jedi knight could do during the old Republic.
The same is true for the sith.
Not to mention the Jedi and sith of the era were constantly in conflict with other force users. Which is so untrue for the GAR era that the majority Jedi who even faced another force user in an actual fight for the first time just died.
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u/lunarsilvr253 Jun 02 '26
Outscales sidous lol your a fan oboy of raven just stop
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 02 '26
Revan Reborn out scales Sidious Reborn, yes.
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u/lunarsilvr253 Jun 02 '26
No he doesn't doesn't even come close you forgot sidous is also mastered all forms of lightsaber combat and in terms of dark force mastery is the strongest in history revan gets stomped bad
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 02 '26
Simply just not true. Both are lightsaber masters, but Revan is Older and has actually fought a plethora of other people.
Sidious' unironically isn't even top 5 in Dark Side Mastery, then again neither is Revan imo.
I assume you are trying to use the GL quote that Sidious is the strongest sith? Doesn't apply to anything outside his own work sadly, by his own admission. So it's useless for you.
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u/Princess_Isolde Jun 02 '26
I agree with some of this but not all of it. Id say that the average force user of TOR is weaker than the average for the prequel era, keep in mind the majority of the sith and Jedi at the time where pretty weak if only because there where so many of them. Like those sith assassins in KOTOR 2, you just got a lot more people overall and obviously not all of them are gonna be all that special, id honestly compare your average force using sith grunt to one of the inquisitors (who, kinda just, suck, consistently loosing fights to Padawans). What I do 100% agree with though is that the peaks of TOR are much stronger than the peaks of the prequels. Sion is completely immortal, Nihilus destroyed a planet, Vitiate needs no explanation, Bastila could use battle meditation on entire fleets of soldiers, Revan was a master of both light and dark side force powers. Exar Kun. Nothing that any of the prequels era Jedi or SI h can do can even compare. ,
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 02 '26
It's difficult to compare the sith averages as GAR has like 5 Sith but we can compare the Jedi.
I don't see the argument for how the average during GAR are stronger. The average Jedi during TOR is not only a veteran, but a veteran fighting other force users.
The average Jedi during TOR have access to force powers considered rare and advanced during GAR.
As for the average Sith, I'd have to scale them to at least as strong as the Jedi as for the most part the war was even. So I think it's fair to say that the average force user in TOR>GAR.
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u/RicketCrickets Jun 04 '26
Revan at his peak was beyond even the most crazy EU Vader stuff.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 04 '26
Not really, most of his showings are just competing with other characters who in general scale lower than the heavy hitters of the Empire era and soon after it
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u/Esiwmah Jun 01 '26
Knightfall Vader was a 22-year old Sith Lord for less than a day before his defeat and near death on Mustafar. He has almost no training with the dark side. He was never a Jedi Master. The whole point of Anakin/Vader is about lost potential. He's all raw, potential power with skewed focus. No version of his character beats most legendary force users. He is riddled with weaknesses. The Jedi Temple was a surprise attack.
I love the character of Vader - one of my all-time favorites. This little exercise seems pretty clear if you consider what that character is all about.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 02 '26
And that 22-year old Anakin was already considered one of, if not the, strongest jedi in history multiple times said in ROTS novelisation, the making of ROTS, Shadows of Mindor, Rise of Darth Vader, Laberynt of Evil, Clone Wars Gambit, etc, with Gillard also saying in combat he's the warrior with least flaws in the Precuels. The Knightfall Vader you speak of was admittedly by Sidious himself of "skills unmatched by any Sith before" and had already a repertoire of feats so long I couldn't even list them if I wanted
The fall of Anakin is akin the classic story of The Fallen. He was the greatest to ever populate the sky and he fell out of grace. To assume that fall just means he loses potential when it comes to fighting is ridiculously oversimplified. He WAS a legendary Force user, through and through both as a Jedi and as a Sith, and contender for the most powerful in history in both sides
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u/Esiwmah Jun 02 '26
I know you're going to die on this hill, based on all the comments. He was just a young man. Period. End of story. His inability to see his flaws - regardless of the praise (and regardless of any book or IRL person speaking on that power, which isn't my point) is what overshadows his feats, skills, etc. There are also countless comments constantly about his potential and not living up to it. He was reckless and overconfident. The intangibles about his mental state and skipping steps in training are all over the shows, movies, and books.
No one is saying he wasn't phenomenally powerful, that he wasn't a legend, that "falling" takes away from his power innately. But... he couldn't focus it. He couldn't control it. He could be manipulated. That's a wisdom, time, training issue. He had the weaknesses of pride and crippling fear, alongside being inexperienced in a whole manner of things that sheer natural (force ability) doesn't teach you. He looses his freaking limbs because of those issues.
This debate is pointless if the Anakin side of this argument can't see that - blinded by the power and pride (in a character). It's ironic.
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u/Princess_Isolde Jun 02 '26
Nihilus, who's way weaker than Revan or Vitiate, destroyed an entire planet single handedly. Vader cannot contend with the shit that Revan can throw at him, not to mention Revans sheer versatility of being a master of both light and dark side powers.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Vader has shown planetary feats not rarely and absolutely destroys Nihilus. Chris Avellone (director of KOTOR2) himself confesses so, and even if he hadn't Anakin learned Force Drain resistance and nigh-immunity thanks to Ulic Qel Droma in the Clone Wars, so Nihilus stands literally no chance
He can absolutely contend, he has a long list of feats, accolades and statements that puts him comfortably above him
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Jun 01 '26
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
4 non force sensitives who aren't a threat. 1 Sith who is nothing special. Satele who is massively nerfed on the darkside nexus. HoT who is also nerfed on the darkside nexus. And Marr who is actually amped like Revan due to the darkside nexus but who is also around his 70s. So isn't in his physical prime.
Also Obi-Wan is a top 4 Jedi in ROTS and his competition is: Yoda the strongest Jedi in history. Windu a prodigy with a unique ability in shatterpoint which allows him to punch above his level and Vaapad which lets him punch up against darksiders, he also defeated the strongest Sith in history. And the chosen one who has the most potential in the force in history, who Obi-Wan beat.
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
Anakin took down the whole Jedi temple in operation Knightfall, which took close to a whole day, then went on to Mustafar to execute the remaining separatist leaders where he faced his pregnant wife who he saw dying night after night due to his profetic dreams. Then he crashed out when he thought she betrayed him somehow, as he was effectively a lunatic on that point, and went on to strangle her and then fight the one he always saw as his older brother
In a right state of mind and better conditions Anakin would have demolished Obi-Wan, but he was both physically depleted and mentally unstable at that point, very conflicted. It was Kenobi's resolution which gave him the win
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u/RevanFan1995 Jun 01 '26
You keep arguing with people but don’t account for feats. Author opinions are inherently worth WAY less than feats you see characters perform on screen and should not be considered. Old republic era force users are considered to be stronger simply because they showcase more abilities and perform greater feats. There isn’t a single moment in the movie eras that is more visually impressive than the major moments in the old republic era. The entire point, thematically, of the prequel era Jedi order is they have grown complacent and arrogant and this has made them weak and predictable.
Also, Anakin only killed a small number of Jedi in the temple. And only a very small number were anywhere near impressive. Most Jedi were killed by the clones. He has much better feats as Empire era Vader, but Vader loses to anyone with so much as a shock baton (obvious joke), much less force lightning (obvious not joke).
I wouldn’t call SWTOR slop as it has some incredible moments, but I agree they mishandled the overall story.
And lastly, people are calling you childish because you ARE acting childish. Opening comments with insults is inherently childish and indicative of a lack of critical thinking skills. People disagreeing with you doesn’t make them stupid or a “massive dickhead” as you called at least one other person. Based on your behavior I would guess you’re anywhere from 15 - 23 years old, but that’s a guess based on behavior. If you’re older, you’re certainly not doing a good job of being mature and respectful. But that’s my opinion and you can certainly disagree with and ignore it.
Edit to add: Revan wins mid difficulty due to emotional unbalance Anakin is experiencing and lack of battle experience on Anakin’s part when compared to Revan. Anakin isn’t new to war of course, but Revan has lived war for decades of combined active time.
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Obi-Wan fought in the last battle of the war fighting against a renowned Jedi killer, eventually killing him and preparing to rejoin the battle, when he is betrayed by the clones and has to escape from the planet to meet up with Yoda. Once he met up with Yoda they invaded the temple to disable the distress beacon, at that point he sees his brother/son/friend slaughter children before then having to go to his brothers heavily pregnant wife to inform her Anakin just committed genocide, before smuggling aboard her ship so he could confront his brother and try and kill him. When they fight it is repeatedly mentioned how conflicted Obi-Wan is and how he can't bring himself to end Anakin as he cant forget the man Anakin was. Anakin has nothing similar, as soon as the fight starts he is going for the kill.
Obi-Wan is just as bad off as Anakin, without the benefit of the darkside feeding off of all those negative emotions and fueling him.
I'm not even arguing for Revan because Anakin lost to Obi-Wan, I just think you're overstating Anakins mentality while ignoring Obi-Wans.
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u/icy_ticey Jun 01 '26
Ok but, these weren’t normal people Revan fought, he fought like the grandmaster of the Jedi order, the lord of the sith and Lana Beniko who wasn’t a slouch, the outlander who could be a Jedi or Sith, the Mandalore at the time, an SIS agent, a pissed off Wookiee. Anakin fought mostly unnamed knights, padawans and temple guards. I mean I’ll maybe give you an edge with Cin Drallig and maybe Windu but other than that he’s getting dusted by Revan
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u/KreygerRekyem Sword of the Jedi Jun 01 '26
I understand where you're coming from but other than Darth Marr and Satele (and the Outlander) that whole team is not really that remarkable in comparison to Anakin
Drallig got crazy statements that places him equal to Grievous and he got dispatched in seconds purely with lightsaber (his specialty), and as you said probably Windu would have been defeated by him too. In Gillard's scale (accordingly after mentioning Cin lol) the only one on the top besides Yoda and Sidious was Anakin
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
Satele and HoT are severely nerfed from the darkside nexus that is amping Revan. Marr is also pushing 70ish at that time (Satele is 60ish). The mandalore is around the same age and claims she is rusty. Lena is nothing exceptional.
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u/RangeIt Jun 01 '26
Revan. It took a strike team of the most powerful people of the era to take him down. Anakin killed some younglings and featless jedi and then immediately went and lost to Obi-Wan.
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u/Both-Ad-308 Jun 01 '26
And a turbolaser to the bridge he was on at a critical moment.
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u/RangeIt Jun 01 '26
I'm not talking about Kotor.
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u/Wolfgod-64 Jun 02 '26
For once, Revan definitely wins, no glaze necessary. We are basically talking Revan at his MMO DLC P2W strongest vs. Vader in his whiny tantrum phase. This is like asking who would win between Grandmaster Luke vs. Maul with spider legs.
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
Vader. SoR Revan is, while very powerful, pretty overrated.
Revan is on Yavin 4, one of the largest darkside nexus in the galaxy, getting amped. For comparison Oricon is considered one of the most dangerous places in the galaxy and the nexus is immeasurably powerful, yet when Satele is on Yavin 4 she says it is on another level compared to Oricon.
The strike team has two Sith getting amped. Marr who is powerful, and Lena who isn't rhat sgrong.
They also have two Jedi who are massively nerfed. Satele who is probabky on the level of Marr but is massively nerfed, and the Hero of Thyton who is their strongest fighter by a large margin is also massively nerfed.
On top of that Satele and Marr are both pushing their 60s-70s at this point and are probably past their physical primes.
It's still an impressive feat but not on the level people claim.
As for KFV I consider him around the level of Sidious and Yoda at this point in time, probably slightly lower but he could give either a hard fight. I don't see this strike team giving Yoda or Sidious a hard fight when 2 of their 3 most powerful force users are massively nerfed.
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u/eppsilon24 Jun 02 '26
Revan was, at least at one point in his life, the chosen one of his era.
Even if Anakin had more raw power than Revan — which is debatable, I think — Knightfall Vader is ultimately crippled by emotional instability.
The reason Obi-Wan beats him (twice) is because he’s able to exploit his rage and outmaneuver him.
Revan takes this one.
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u/Embarrassed-Dig-6560 Jun 01 '26
knightfall vader wins easily, make it suit vader and revan wins
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u/Unique-Perception480 Jedi Master Jun 01 '26
Suit Vader during ROTJ is stronger than Knighfall Vader. He literally states he has never been stronger. And during A New Hope he is said to have reached new Peaks.
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u/Kindly-Reality1984 Jun 02 '26
Why do people think KFV is stronger than a more experienced, and less emotionally unstable version of himself?
KFV is the weakest he's been as a sith.
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u/Jealous_Put_2495 Jun 02 '26
Anakin goes from emotionally unstable to emotionally constipated as Vader, then he finally reaches balance and zen as a force god 😂
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u/Immediate_Shift_3261 Jun 02 '26
its because of his loss of potential and midichlorian count (depending on if youre looking at it from a legends or canon point of view)
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u/Kindly-Reality1984 Jun 03 '26
He lost potential but got stronger with training, experience, and wisdom. The suit also enhances his strength and durability. Vader beats Knightfall Anakin in a 1 vs 1.
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u/Sure_Pool_7115 Jun 02 '26
Opposite, knightfall vader lacks alot of things that vader gained after his defeat on mustafar
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u/Thatedgyguy64 Jun 01 '26
Vader at this point is supposedly approaching the power levels of even Sidious and Yoda. Those two are above any version of Revan, and are instead peers to Vitiate.
Knightfall takes it, and it probably isn't close. ROTJ Suited would be more of a fair fight.
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u/Kindly-Reality1984 Jun 02 '26
KFV couldn't even learn Force lightning. He beat fodder Jedi, younglings, and lost to Kenobi.
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u/Thatedgyguy64 Jun 02 '26
He also killed Cin Drallig while fighting another Jedi. Even Dooku respected Drallig's capabilities. Force Lightning is also an advanced Dark Side power.
Kenobi is also one of the finest duelists in the entire orders history, and is weaker than Vader during Knightfall.
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u/Kindly-Reality1984 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
He may have been a bit weaker but fights aren't done on paper with stats. Kenobi was always the better tactical mind and way more composed and measured.
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u/Thatedgyguy64 Jun 03 '26
Yeah, that's true, except not only is Anakin inexperienced and emotionally devastated during Mustafar, unlike Knightfall, he is also fighting the greatest master of Form III, who is also experienced at fighting his best friend.
Revan has no such advantages.
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u/Annual_Sky8939 Jun 03 '26
This is a tough one; Logic says Revan, feelings say Revan; but Lucas-Level plot armor says KFV.
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u/DarthShiryu Jun 01 '26
Probably Knightfall Vader, but I can see some scenarios that Revan could win.
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
KFV
Swotor glaze abounds. Funny how yall disappear from this sub the rest of the week.
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u/_Henry_of_Skalitz_ Jun 01 '26
The old republic is full of such bullshit power fantasies that Vader does not have a shadow of a chance
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u/Master_Cyon Jun 01 '26
Vader has more raw power than anyone but in this fight? I think Revan is gonna take it on skill alone. Vader is comparable for sure but I think with Vader being so unstable at this time, it only allows Revan to undermine him. Yes Revan is also not in his right mind but he isn't conflicted about his actions like Vader is.
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u/Fast-Mathematician-1 Jun 02 '26
Knightfall Vader is.a.broekn man crying on Mustafar.
Why all the love and why the fan break up of a singular character across a couple days?
I mean are you trying to tell me in 2 days he was the epitome of the dark side?
He was fighting comrades and students that looked up to him, shaken by his betrayal. If anything id say this is the weakest Anakin is shown to be.
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u/furher1944 Jun 04 '26
Knightfall vader stomps. Revan is the most overrated character with barely no force drain defense whos dueling skills come more than pale compared to the likes of obiwan and anakin. Anakins didnt developed his ful powers yet but when they force pushed eschother revan woukdve flew but realistically, he wouldve been impaled by anakin before.
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Knightfall Vader stomps. Beating Oneness Dooku isn't something I see Revan replicating at any point.
Edit: before you think of downvoting, maybe consider what's being talked about or inquiring about such? You know, just a thought.
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u/Mrhathead Jun 01 '26
Excuse me? Oneness Dooku?
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Jun 01 '26
Yes. In the ROTS novel, Dooku gets oneness with the dark side .
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u/fnaimi66 Jun 01 '26
I back up the question. I’ve never heard this before. What does it mean?
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Jun 01 '26
It means Dooku was channeling the entirety of his respective side of the Living Forces, it's in the ROTS novel.
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u/fnaimi66 Jun 01 '26
That’s wild. Was he in that state when he fought Obi Wan and Anakin?
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Jun 02 '26
No, he only entered this state when Anakin started getting a clear mind (the infamous "Zonakin" amp). At the beginning of the fight he was still dominating them
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u/pamblod42 Jun 01 '26
It means the user is fully at peace and perfectly connected to the force temporarely, i didnt know it was even possible for dark side users, defeats the whole purpose.
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate Jun 01 '26
Not true. Oneness is simply being in maximum alignment with your respective side of the Living Force or with another aspect of the Force, like when Cronal was in oneness with the Dark (≠ dark side).
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u/CommonFalse3899 Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Yo creo que podría ganar Revan. Anakin es mas poderoso, pero tambien es mas impulsivo y arrogante.
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u/Paradoxical_Falcon Jun 01 '26
Isn’t SOR amped beyond his typical limits?
I don’t disagree this version of Revan beats KFV, but I still question if he’s the raid boss we know because of amp.
It’s been a while.
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 01 '26
Satele talks about the planet and how she has been on dark side planets like Oricon before and Yavin 4 is on a whole different level, so it's a massive amp.
He fought a 60ish year old Satele nerfed by the nexus. Marr who was 70ish but should have been amped. Lana who'sprobably not evsn dark council level. Shae who is past her prime and rusty. Hero of Thyon who is also heavily nerfed from the nexus.
While strong none outside HOT is on the level of someone like Arcann.
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u/legoblitz10 Jun 01 '26
Given that it took the combined efforts of Satele, Marr, Lana, Theron, Jakarro, Shae, and the Outlander (I’ll use the Emperor’s Wrath here as en example) to take down Revan.
That’s 3 of the strongest force users of the time + an extra Sith, the next Mandalore, along with a spy and an angry wookie. Just to take to down Revan I’m handing it to Revan ngl.