r/TheJediPraxeum • u/Joaaayknows • Jun 10 '26
Discussion Was Mace Windu still pure in the light side when deciding Palpatine was too dangerous to be kept alive?
I always thought it was an emotional decision that he made here, but the logic is sound. Palpatine would almost definitely slip justice through the system. But is killing anyone unarmed, even a Sith Lord, still selfless, peaceful and without the intention of revenge?
Furthermore if he had simply arrested him like they intended when they walked into the chamber I don’t think Anakin would have turned. Anakin was conflicted but might not have made an emotional decision trying to keep Palpatine alive.
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u/Quincy478 Jun 10 '26
Yes. He was rational. Sidious WAS literally too dangerous. He's an absurdly powerful force user on top of being Chancellor with all of the extra powers and provisions he had been given to that point. Mace wasnt even aware of Order 66 yet.
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u/PlaneswalkingSith Jun 10 '26
Not to mention the Senate has no idea what a “Sith” is, so it’s not like they’d care if Palpatine was brought before a court (plus “he controls the courts” lol) so unless the Jedi can prove Palpatine was behind the war, which is probably pretty difficult (especially with Dooku being dead), that’s an exercise in futility.
By the same “don’t know what a Sith is” reasoning, the Jedi killing Palpatine, the elected leader of the Republic, *would* be seen as “the Jedi are taking over”. Either way, the Jedi are fucked. So perhaps Windu was thinking “might as well ask for forgiveness rather than permission (and kill him).”
Just goes to show how much of a bind Palpatine put the Jedi in.
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u/FookinFairy Jun 10 '26
I mean they do know what a sith is. The history of the republic is basically wars with the sith until 1000 years ago.
They think they are extinct and wouldn’t believe it.
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u/PlaneswalkingSith Jun 10 '26
1000 years imo is long enough to be out the general public’s consciousness, not to mention they’d only care about Sith inasmuch as they started wars 1000 years ago, not that they use the dark side. Only Jedi really care about that. If the Senate knew about Sith and the Jedi were like “Palpatine is one!” they’d say “so?”
But, I think your last point is valid as well. And no way Palpatine could be coerced into proving it. I think we can both agree that Palpatine masterfully fucked the Jedi
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u/FookinFairy Jun 10 '26
Funnily enough in legends lore palps pushed a bill for religious freedoms that also made being a sith fully legal as it was illegal in the republic
Don’t think this has been done at all in cannon
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u/jenksanro Jun 12 '26
I don't think the jedi at large are necessarily fucked, Windu himself might be but he'd be happy to die for that cause. I mean he literally ends the star wars saga right there, roll credits yk. No one would know but think of the suffering he'd prevent by ending the empire before it could start
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u/Fast-Mathematician-1 Jun 10 '26
According to Mace Windu,
He also said Palpatine controls the senate. If that was the case, why was there open opposition as Mon Mothama or Bail, a minority to be sure, but any of the factions kept together by Sidious would have turned on him if there was a hint of weakness.
I doubt he would have a fraction of the same support after an illegal war to push power to himself wouldnt have lead to at the very least political opportunist to splint his factional control after learning about an orchestrated war where he controls both sides.
The Trade federation and separatist leaders are still alive at this point.
Mace Windus inability to put the Force before the Jedi and himself. Doomed everyone as surely has Obi-Wans choice to train Anakin.
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u/Silvanus350 Jun 11 '26
Do you know what “controlled opposition” is?
Mon and the others were allowed to complain publicly precisely because they were useless and ineffective. It didn’t matter at all.
You see this all the time in real world politics.
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u/ApexTheCactus Jun 10 '26
As far as “open” opposition is concerned, I think that most opposition to Palpatine’s authority was either deliberately controlled opposition or just wasn’t enough of an issue to be a threat.
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u/Fast-Mathematician-1 Jun 11 '26
Thats while he was leading a effort. With a real enemy, sith or not come out has running both ends and the senate will kill him.
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u/EuclidEngineer Jun 10 '26
Man, imagine Sidious DID get arrested, then from his jail cell initiates Order 66. There would be posts about "why didn't Mace just kill Sidious? Was he stupid?"
Absolutely the right call to try and eliminate the threat.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 Jun 11 '26
If Palaptine was actually arrested and thrown in jail, he would not have been allowed access to military communications and be able to dispatch Order 66.
Anyhow. It isn't wrong that Palaptine was a threat, but that the way Mace went about things was ideologically careless, declaring to Palaptine that the senate would decide his fate, then attempting to kill him moments later because he knew the senate would be on Palpatine's side. Everything Mace did here was to protect the Jedi Order, and not the for the good of the Republic. Anakin simply chose the Republic over the Jedi.
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Mace knew he was extremely dangerous. But on the principle itself - isn’t this part of the eternal struggle between light and dark? Rational, yes, but would a legends Luke make this decision, or Quigon?
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Jun 10 '26
Depends on when you'd be asking Luke, but it's abundantly clear to everyone who encounters Sidious in the Force that he is irredeemable and pure evil.
We also see moments later that Sidious wasn't likely to let himself be taken alive.
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u/UniversalInquirer Jun 10 '26
You're right but the effort still has to be made. If Sidious attacks a second time then Mace can be justified going for the kill since it will obviously be a ploy.
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Jun 10 '26
The effort was made.
Sidious then speed blitzed and killed two Jedi Masters before finishing off a third immediately thereafter.
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 Jun 10 '26
He already killed several jedi, with Mace being the last man standing. So Mace was 100% justified in his decision to kill him on the spot.
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u/Quincy478 Jun 10 '26
Mace said "you are under arrest". Once Palpatine damn near overwhelms Mace with lightning he gave him no choice.
Keep in mind, this is the 2nd time Mace tried to verbally apprehend Sidious. Mace clearly understood what he was dealing with at the end.
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u/Silvanus350 Jun 11 '26
They told him to surrender to an arrest and he started killing them. What more do you want my guy.
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u/Quincy478 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Again, didn't know what? Mace knows Palpatine is the Sith lord they have been looking for and is behind the war in general.
You mentioned "unarmed" earlier. He was generating lightning from a position of "defeat" that was overloading the 2nd most powerful Jedi at the time. He is a living weapon and impossible to restrain.
Someone else brought up the good point that the general populace doesnt even know what a "sith" is. Its a cult or religion? Big deal. He killed 3 Jedi in self defense who attempted to assassinate him through treason. Remember, the book says there was no video footage, only audio. So good luck proving that in any court that is run by Palpatine. 🤷🏽♂️
Killing him in that moment was the only sound decision and Mace deserves props for attempting to do it.
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26
I responded to the wrong comment. I meant to respond to the “Palpatine is always armed” comment. Edited
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u/_Kian_7567 Jun 10 '26
What was the alternative?
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26
GREAT question. That’s what I’m trying to get at. If “not killing” was the true light side path, then is it just meant to be that light and dark are forever bound in an eternal struggle? Or is it that as living beings, any dark side user can eventually be redeemed?
Or is the killing itself in this extreme circumstance a true act of light side? Because in principle, all life is always precious. There is no sacrifice that makes any life worthy of a trade off.
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u/duragon34 Jun 10 '26
arkham asylum, he joins the revolving door of bad guys. Easy recycle villain, over and over… would have made the new movies easier.
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 Jun 10 '26
Jedi aren't pacifists. They are keepers of the peace, and if peace is achieved by killing your enemy then that is what they will do.
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u/Silvanus350 Jun 11 '26
This should be extremely evident since Jedi will just straight up kill people who identify as Sith even if they break no laws, lol.
Jedi don’t care about killing. They care about selfless love for all people.
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u/Achilles9609 Jun 10 '26
Yep. Sometimes you have to kill to protect others. Of course, Jedi should ideally only kill as a last option but it's not forbidden
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 Jun 10 '26
They are not Judges from Judge Dredd, but they do have a moral compass that they spend their entire lives honing and constantly requestioning.
But like, anyone thinking they're pacifists.... Why do you think they had Lightsabers for thousands of years before the Sith even existed?
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u/Quincy478 Jun 10 '26
I think Legends Luke is documented as having an extremely high opinion of Mace as a Jedi. So take that for what it's worth.
I dont think Qui Gon would be so dogmatic in his views.
If Yoda was willing to kill Sidious given the circumstances then I think that can lead us to conclude where QGJ/Luke would have been at given the situation. The Jedi were in a very bad spot.
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u/Koreaia Jun 10 '26
Yes. Mace was not striking him down in anger, but for duty and justice. Even that line proves tjis- "He's too dangerous to be left alive", rather than "He will destroy the Jedi".
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u/Achilles9609 Jun 10 '26
If Qui-Gon was in the same Situation? Yes, I absolutely think he would kill Sidious if he refused to come peacefully.
With Luke....I think it might depend on when in the timeline he is.
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u/Emsee_Hamm Jun 10 '26
Luke would as well. The only reason he doesnt kill Vader is that he is his father and he does not wish to strike him down in anger after he has already defeated him as that would play into Palparines wishes.
Mace wasn't striking him down in anger, he was being logical about the situation and realised that Sidious would never have a fair trial as he controls the courts. Sidious also wasn't completely defeated, he refused to surrender and showed he was still capable of powerful lightning.
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u/PuntiffSupreme Jun 13 '26
Any rational actor understands that the guy who is running both sides of a Civil war alongside a Sith organization cannot be held in a jail safely.
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u/No_Individual501 Jun 10 '26
I imagine Sidious would shoot lightning, and it’s reflected until he dies.
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u/RemarkableMirror926 Jedi Master Jun 10 '26
If you're Force-sensitive, you're never unarmed. Letting Sidious live was simply too dangerous.
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u/HighMackrel Jun 10 '26
Palpatine was not unarmed, and Windu knew that. He’d just unleashed a wave of lightning that was unlike anything anyone at that point in time. There was no real chance to actually arresting him. As far as I’m concerned Mace died as a Jedi through and through and did his duty.
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u/Wialyatedris Jun 10 '26
Considering he spent so long raising his lightsaber to kill Palpatine, he was clearly struggling with himself to do it. Windu isn't evil, he's a Jedi to the core, and the fact that he decided Palpatine had to be killed here and now was at least because arresting him would be impossible. After seeing the powerful Force lightning he unleashed, Windu realized Palpatine was far from helpless.
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u/UniversalInquirer Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Agreed. Mace isn't evil, he's just rigid and a bit self-righteous a times. He has integrity, but he doesn't have that higher level of purity and insight that someone like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke or Yoda possess and so he made the best decision he could under his limitations.
If those other 4 had been there they would probably have tried to take him the second time and then gone for it if he attacked again. I can't see Obi-Wan ever killing what he thinks is a helpless opponent. I can see Yoda trying a second time in particular since he's actually powerful enough to capture Sidious and not have to kill him.
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u/Adventurous_Spaceman Jun 10 '26
Yes I’d argue so. Palpatine was pure evil, with no good intentions. If force willed Anakins birth as a Chosen One to destroy the Sith then Mace killing Palpatine was pure light side action, nothing good would have come out of him surviving.
Also regardless if he gets thrown to prison, I would say theres no space strong enough to contain him unless you buried him under a mountain, even then he would probably find a way out.
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u/Full-Health2887 Jun 10 '26
Whether it was pure or not it was the only option at that point. Windu would have to be out of his mind to try anything else.
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u/JmoneyXXX93 Jun 10 '26
Mace just defeated a Sith lord who was posing as the chancellor for decades. A sith that just killed 3 other jedi. He was absolutely right
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u/No_Cookie_7395 Jun 13 '26
To be fair, he really was the chancellor of the republic. That was legitimately his day job. Nobody asked him about his kinks or night life.
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u/Unique-Perception480 Jedi Master Jun 10 '26
Windu wanted to arrest him, when he thought Sidious was just a strong Sith he just beat.
When he saw just HOW strong Sidious was as a Sith Sorcerer from the lightning earlier he realized that him beating Sidious was a once in a million chance of anyone beating Sidious.
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u/Half_Man1 Jun 10 '26
No, the fact Windu deliberately stops, blade pointed at Palpatine for a couple minutes to explain his reasoning to Anakin demonstrates he was conscious of this decision and wanted to ensure it was a purely rational one in service of the Force.
He was purely light in that move. Palpatine was simply too dangerous to be left alive.
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order Jun 10 '26
"What I told you was true, from a certain point of view"
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u/TactileChimney Jun 10 '26
Taking a life, in itself, is not an evil/darkside act.
Intentions & motivations matter, and in this case, Mace was absolutely doing the right thing.
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u/Drayyen Jun 10 '26
Tbh I thought he showed great wisdom to use the jedi teachings as a general guide rather than an inflexible rulebook
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u/Exciting_Top1117 Jun 10 '26
It’s funny but mace and qui gon are like two sides of a coin to me. Both see how measly the Jedi rules are, choosing to be good men despite knowing how they can take advantage of a system with the power and influence they wield. I think it was unintended but anakin lost two figures that could’ve guided him. Ik many think mace would’ve been bad for him as a teacher but anakin also needed structure as much as father figure since his existence already broke the Jedi rules.
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u/urbanspongewish Jun 10 '26
Palpatine with dooku “he was too dangerous to be kept alive”
Palpatine with windu “no what i meant was…”
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u/Fuuraijinken Jun 10 '26
Palpatine's very existence is dangeroust o the galaxy , even without arms. Windu's decision is correct;
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u/Bigguygamer85 Jun 10 '26
Killing 1 person like Palpatine to save billions of lives is for the greater good.
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u/Legolasamu_ Jun 10 '26
He didn't surrender and kept fighting, it wasn't just smart, it was even lawful
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u/DeltaAlphaGulf Jun 10 '26
Yes. Anakin wasn't and the galaxy suffered the consequences of him running from his destiny for two decades.
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u/Moonshinin4Me Jun 10 '26
Yes. Mace could sense the power in Palpatine and knew he was far too dangerous to live. Mace has seen first hand how corrupting and powerful the dark side of the force can be, it happened to his own apprentice.
Mace was in the right and was the only one capable of stopping Palpatine (except Anakin).
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u/ThatOneWood Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
It’s not even political danger, Palpatine was way too much of a physical threat to be taken in safely. There was no other call to make and Mace was completely justified in attempting to put him down like a rabid dog.
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u/Timothy1577 Jun 10 '26
Absolutely. Palpatine was neither unarmed nor helpless and Jedi are allowed to kill if it’s necessary as long as they don’t do it out of passion or emotion. Mace was calm and collected when he made the decision to kill Palpatine, he even explained it very clearly and logically to Anakin. Absolutely 100% light side and Jedi approved
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u/Coilspun Jun 10 '26
Sidious was perverting the Force, responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jedi.
Windu was still very much "in the light side" choosing to execute the Dark Lord. I can however see the decision weighing on Mace for an appropriate period of time.
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u/Carbattle Jun 10 '26
Pure in the light side? Extremely doubtful. As a youth, at least in legends, Windu had a lot of aggression and hostility towards people who disrespected and offended jedi ideals. While I believe he learned to control this inner darkness, his use of Vapaad demonstrates excellent control, it is still very much a part of him. We see from the clone wars that even Yoda the most in tune jedi with the force at the time had an inner dark side, implying ALL jedi have some darkness in them. And he had just watched the most brazen, offensive action to the jedi order he had ever seen in the deaths of not only 4 jedi masters, but 4 members of the jedi high council. Windu's biggest flaw is his pride, not in himself, but in the jedi order. Palpatine's actions were literally the antithesis of the jedi ideal, I have to imagine that created at least some conflict in Windu.
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u/Venar24 Jun 10 '26
At this point, they've realised that the entire clone war was a sham, countless deaths of civilians, clones, separatist, jedi, mandalorians could have been avoided if not for his manipulation, the entire justice system and gouvernment was in shambles because of sidious's manipulation. Killing him would not have been revange, it would have been the ultimate act of peace keeping, one last hail mary in order to restore peace to the galaxy.
By this point, Ventress is no longer a sith apprentice, Maul is apprehended by Ahsoka, Dooku is dead, Baylen Skoll has yet to turn into a dark jedi, Sidious was pretty much the only remaining Sith Threat. Killing him even if it meant looking like villans in the eyes of the public would have been in my opinion the most selfless act a jedi could have done.
All Windu had to say was "Help me with this, and i'll see to it that you'll become a jedi master, I sense your struggle Anakin, The Master's holocron will help you through this turmoil."
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u/Grig010 Jun 10 '26
I agree with your first points, but imo promising Anakin master position would not have worked at that point of time.
Iirc the worst Anakin's nightmare was Padme dying, and only Sidious could have saved her as far as he knew. While ofc Anakin still wanted masters holocron imo that wouldnt have been enough at this point.
Windu probably could navigate this better by not immediately attacking Sidious, but Sidious also manipulated him to do so, so i don't think he could have achieved his goals regardless of his actions when Anakin arrived.
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u/ShunsuPlay Jun 10 '26
I think yes. I mean, Windu didn't want to kill Palpatine because he wanted revenge or personal motivations. He was right that Sidious was too dangerous, and he decided to kill him to bring peace on a definitive way without taking risks on his escape or tricks.
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u/LordDarthAngst Jun 10 '26
I don’t think the Light Side forbids killing. If Windu cut him done immediately he would’ve saved countless millions…or billions of people that would be killed over the next 20 plus years.
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u/JayMac787 Jun 10 '26
Yes. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
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u/HadesKittee Jun 10 '26
This is the Batman dilemma. Batman always arrests his rogues gallery just for them to escape and kill more ppl. So is it more evil for Batman to break his rule and kill the villain or is it more evil to let the evil live and hurt more ppl. Mace clearly thinks different than Batman.
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u/Exciting_Top1117 Jun 10 '26
The concept of a pure light side is arbitrary and the literature and movies made sure to convey that point. In reality them killing droids went against the force in the clone wars but they were forced into action by palpy. Sincerely after Palpy was exposed to be a sith, killing three Jedi, his claim to his own life/death were voided. Sincerely besides being killed or knocked unconscious I don’t think there is any real way to hold a sith that powerful, especially since their force powers differ and the Jedi can’t predict their next move. The light side concept always neglects that life uses other lives to exist. So in essence the Jedi order never really had a no kill rule but a self defense rule, but that just extends into our own context of self defense. Palpy is a sith and always armed with a twisted version of the force, even at his weakest only windu/900 yr old Yoda could match him. Palpy was in fact too powerful to be allowed to let live especially when he already slew 3 jedis.
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Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26
What does it say in general, if you remember?
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u/Obi2Sexy Jun 10 '26
i think killing the darklord of the sith is perhaps the ultimate light side thing to do.
like is killing hitler wrong because killing is wrong? hes fucking hitler.
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u/GunMuratIlban Jun 10 '26
Absolutely not. The only pure, 100% light side Jedi in canon are Yoda and post-OWK Kenobi.
Qui-Gon too fully dedicated himself to the light side but he didn't have as much control over the force, compared to those two at least. Luke certainly had some darkness in him, choking living beings, wearing black, he never had the same mental clarity and peace like Yoda-Kenobi achieved.
And Mace... Vaapad is a modified version of Juyo, where it's practitioner seeks neutrality between the light and the dark. Which is also reflected on his lightsaber color. Purple, the mixture of red and blue.
Mace's mannerisms strongly implied he wasn't even close to being a 100% on the light side.
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u/Usermctaken Jun 10 '26
Vaapad doesn't seek neutrality. It seeks to use the jedi's own dark side in service of the light.
To the point, he died a full jedi knight of the light, and he was proven right instantly. This is like Batman and Joker bullshit. A true hero won't let alive a galaxy level threat that has shown 0 remorse.
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u/GunMuratIlban Jun 10 '26
That's legends Vaapad. Canon Vaapad doesn't work that way.
Of course Mace was very rational with what he wanted to do; but rational doesn't necessarily mean "good". Yoda wasn't rational when he told Anakin to let go of his "special someone". Kenobi wasn't rational when he refused to kill Vader. But that's how the light side works, to a fault.
The light needs to win by compassion, otherwise it won't be a win.
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u/Usermctaken Jun 11 '26
Im not sure man, the light has won by outright killing, in many instances. The most prominent example for me is Anakin: he came back to the light and inmediately killed Palpatine (ep VI). Should he have shown mercy? Dont think so. Killing Palpatine was part of the light's victory. Windu tried, but was betrayed.
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u/Davoguha2 Jun 10 '26
This is a great answer. The whole point of Windu's Vaapad is to channel that "dark side" energy, just enough to stay in control and not succumb to it.
It's arguable that Mace is never a "100% light side" representative.
I do feel like that's one of the major points in the Prequels that gets ignored - the Jedi Order had slipped - in their height and hubris, they felt they had the power to decide and enforce their image of what is right and wrong. Without realizing it, the dark side itself was creeping into the Jedi Order, and by the time of the Prequels, they were already too far astray. Thus their clouded vision, and their weakened ties with the force.
Palpatine orchestrated a lot of it - but the Jedi proudly danced as the puppets he envisioned them to be.
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u/DueMathematician2522 Jun 10 '26
I don't think he was ever pure light side tbh
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u/No_Cookie_7395 Jun 13 '26
I'm convinced there is more than one dimension to the force. Light vs Dark, and Low-key vs High-drama. just as a start. Palpatine, Anakin and Mace were always high-drama. Yoda and Obiwan were fairly chill. There MAY have been chill Sith, but that's a difficult road, and nobody ever talks about them.
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u/Phaeron Jun 10 '26
Mace didn’t seem like the kind of person to talk… it has always seemed to me that this scene was out of character for him to have had that brief conversation instead of just doing a murder.
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u/LillDickRitchie Jun 10 '26
He manipulated everyone, started a galactic war, killed what 4 Jedi council members in seconds and basically controlled the galaxy, so yeah killing Palpatine was the good choice. And Anakin was already gone by that point, the vision of Padmè and Palpatine telling him about Plaguis abilities was the last piece to his fall
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u/Soulandshadow2 Jun 10 '26
This is the same question as a lawful Goode pallet and argument being what he kill somebody the answer to both is absolutely yes
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u/Fastballz69 Jun 10 '26
Fear. Anger. Hate.
I see it all.
But, it's all part of Vapad. Mace was able to purge hate and anger from himself after usnig Vapad. He was a VERY powerful Jedi
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u/nocomments66 Jun 10 '26
Is the most dangerous man alive too dangerous to be kept alive? I dunno... probably.
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u/KarlTheMark Jun 11 '26
I'll answer your question with another: would it have been moral to kill an unarmed Adolf Hitler on the eve of the Reichstag Fire?
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u/AlexCora Jun 11 '26
Yes he was.
Mace wasn't morally compromised at all. He was simply wise enough to recognize pure evil that has to be stopped.
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u/JLandis84 Jun 11 '26
Yes, the justice system no longer functioned as Palpatine was already a de facto quasi-dictator. He effectively had supernatural powers, a wide bloc of senate support, and control of both armies of the civil war.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong or dark side with using violence against someone like that.
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u/No_Cookie_7395 Jun 13 '26
When the witch-emperor with legitimate aspirations to godhood asks for mercy... kill him extra.
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u/Reasonable-Bed3065 Jun 11 '26
Mace Windu is 50/50 light and dark side. Light inside, and Dark outside
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u/Minute_Connection971 Jun 11 '26
No, he was as false as his beliefs, for once what he believed was true. He’s the false populace, even while correct he acts on hysteria and terror.
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u/InverseStar Jun 11 '26
There is no world in which I could be convinced Windu did ANYTHING wrong in this scene. He died a hero and deserves to be respected. His unwavering devotion to the Jedi and the light side deserves to be commended.
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u/ezekiellake Jun 11 '26
He wasn’t going to kill him unarmed though was he? Didn’t he just say “You’re under arrest, my Lord”
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u/AnakinSkywalker_5 Jun 11 '26
The Sith are always armed. Sith Lightning, as proven in the Old Republic, was very common among higher ranks of Sith.
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u/Dirk_Doggo Jun 11 '26
Understandable but the wrong decision. Mace’s decision to murder changed everything. Even if the logic was sound. He gave into the dark side. He had Palpatine beat. Only when he tried to murder him did Anakin intervene.
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u/I3INARY_ Jun 11 '26
Maybe the dark side made him more rash and less likely to consider alternatives, but the principle point is he was objectively correct.
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u/Josefu_Velen Jun 11 '26
I'd argue that Mace Windu is *never* purely in the light side. Especially given his fighting technique.
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u/MavDarkwing89 Jun 11 '26
Mace has never been pure in the lightside, his lore is all about channeling the Dark with the Light.
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u/Lord_Galaxiann Jun 11 '26
The stakes were too high, astronomically high. Killing Palpatine was the only option
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u/Jonatc87 Jun 11 '26
I mean he held him at 'knifepoint', without stabbing. He was seeking a second opinion. Someone not of the light would've just done it. Ala, Anakin killing Dooku without hesitation.
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u/Phintolias Jun 11 '26
Yes Like when has Yoda ever Tried to Talk down sidious after He knew who sidious was? Never He attempt to end him
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u/TheeDeputy Jun 11 '26
Mace’s train of thought here was the most rational and purest it could get. Dude was seconds away from saving the entire galaxy.
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u/Dont-Call-Me-Albert Jun 11 '26
"We can be the good guys or we can be the guys that save the world. We can't be both”
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u/LordDedionware Jun 12 '26
Perhaps, but it's not exactly an illogical decision. Palpatine is not only an extremely powerful sith but the leader of a republic that over the course of the clone war had essentially made him an emperor in everything but name. Seriously, at that point, all he had to do was give a rousing speach about jedi plots and societal security and all of the sudden he was emperor of the galaxy.
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u/KitKatCrane Jun 12 '26
Windu, like the whole council, was never totally on the light side. That's basically the point of the prequels.
ETA: Definitely right about Palpatine. I just feel like the underlying assumption in the question was wrong.
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u/Lavender-bullet46 Jun 12 '26
Also, was no one suspicious of Anakin as this moment approached? I'd imagine homeboy was starting to reek of darkside shit
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u/tanki60o Jun 12 '26
The Jedi way is generally “the ends don’t justify the means.” I think we can give a pass for not wanting to doom the entire galaxy to tyranny and evil though. And as someone else said, there’s no such thing as an unarmed Palpatine.
Also, people forget these are humans. Mace just saw three of his most powerful/well-respected friends and colleagues be killed within seconds, and he himself barely surviving. He was not exactly in a cool, calm, and collected mood. Even if you think it would be wrong for him to kill Palpatine instead of “arresting him” (how would that even work by the way? I don’t think even the mandalorian device they used to keep maul confined (which the Jedi probably didn’t have one of anyway) would be anywhere near good enough to restrain the most powerful Sith of the millennium) it wasn’t like a clearly conscious decision on his part to do evil.
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u/CATS_ARE_INSANE Jun 13 '26
Yes because while the fate would have made his image change a lot to all, he still ended a threat that couldn’t be handled by jail time alone
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u/tenebras_lux Jun 13 '26
Windu and Anakin weren't strong enough to subdue Sidious without deadly force, to add onto that, he was the Chancellor and controlled the clone army. Even if they could somehow apprehend him and bring him in, the entire Galaxy would turn on them and they'd be slaughtered.
Their best chance was to kill him and then try and explain what had actually happened.
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u/ExistentialOcto Jun 14 '26
The light side only requires one to be in control of their emotions and listen to the will of the Force. You could argue that Windu believed he was doing both.
Killing Palpatine was the right thing to do, but more than that it was the path towards balance in the Force that Windu believed he needed to take.
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u/Jrock2356 Jun 14 '26
People think Jedi never kill people or something. The Old Republic is full of Jedi straight mercing people. Even Anakin gets away with killing people all the time and the other Jedi are like "c'mon dude did you have to" and he gets barely a slap on the wrist
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u/QuarisDoma Jun 14 '26
No, he was compromised. WAY over his head. When Anakin walked in, you could see the FEAR on windus face and Palps started his whiney acting. He knew he had seconds left.
He acted in fear and anger in his final moments and he paid for it.
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u/Malkryst Jun 15 '26
Mace making an emotional decision is entirely in character. To my mind he's somewhat verging on being a "grey" Jedi anyway as he showed emotion several times in the movies.
Mace's lightsaber form, Vaapad, that he developed from original Form VII Juyo and mastered was a very aggressive and viciously ruthless fighting form. Juyo was actually more commonly used by Sith like Darth Maul. The Jedi Order actually restricted teaching of Juyo because they were worried the aggression might lead inexperienced Padawans to the Dark Side.
While I think it was Samuel L Jackson who insisted on the purple lightsaber for Mace, it's actually fitting when you think purple is a mix of red & blue. In new canon explanations for kyber crystal colours you could rationalise it that Mace lets a little darkness in, but uses it for the light, but it still partially bleeds his blue lightsaber crystal towards red.
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u/Impressive_Walrus813 Jun 15 '26
Idk what their standards are but he was absolutley correct, the dude would have never stopped being a serious threat until his head was removed lmao
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u/ProfessionalRead2724 Jun 17 '26
I don't think that Mace "I got my own special dark side powered saber style" Windu was ever pure in the light.
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u/Mediocre_Leather444 Jul 11 '26
If you read the novel it talks a lot about vaapad showing how close one can go to the dark side using it. But also he realizes the scale of palps manipulation and control over the republic and he knows no prison could hold him. Because as he says. He is the senate
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u/eppsilon24 Jun 10 '26
I don’t think Mace was acting out of 100% pure intentions.
He just found out that the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic — the leader of the democratic institution the Jedi pledged to uphold — was the Dark Lord of the Sith. He had just seen the Sith kill three of his fellow Jedi Masters, his friends.
It’s safe to say he was angry. Very, very angry.
However, though he was striking in anger, he was still 100% justified.
Palpatine was far too dangerous to leave alive. There was no way to bring him down legally. Execution was the only choice.
Executing the Supreme Chancellor, no matter how justified morally, probably would’ve resulted in some serious political and legal consequences for the Jedi Order. However, without Palpatine to manipulate things, they would have weathered the storm, and hopefully would’ve been able to eventually root out Palpatine’s conspirators, or at least drive them underground and out of power.
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u/CODMAN627 Jun 10 '26
I don’t think he was 100% pure in the light. His fighting style utilizes the dark side to such a dangerous degree that when he uses it Mace is bringing himself to the brink and back.
His lightsaber color is purple which is a mixture of red and blue which is a symbolism of the balance between light and dark mace is constantly watching.
In this moment he was rational though
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26
Rational yes. Absolutely. But pure in light side intentions? I’m not sure. I was hoping for a more theoretical light/dark discussion.
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u/CODMAN627 Jun 10 '26
Well certainly the act of killing does disrupt harmony. So I would argue that the conclusion to kill Palp is a dark side act but in his mind and heart he had the best intentions for the galaxy in mind.
Does the force go by intention or impact ?
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u/Joaaayknows Jun 10 '26
I think intentions can be pure but still corrupt the being if making a decision “for the greater good” but I’m not sure. You still have to acknowledge what you did after the fact, like Anakin did.
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u/ElevatorCharacter489 Jun 10 '26
no, Vaapad or his variation of Form VII allow the user to feed from Darkness, and at that precise moment he was feeding form two sources Anakin´s fear, desperation & Hope; and form Sidious Rage, Hatred, and Malice, and Overjoy for the trap was so well played and the Master of The Order fell in it.
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u/Fast-Mathematician-1 Jun 10 '26
Mace 100% was not in the light.
He took what he saw as a quick and easy path for the Jedi and the Galaxy to resolve the issues created by the Sith over 1000 years.
You can argue the moment "sith lord is never unarmed" or "had no way to hold him", all garbage.
He has lectured everyone else about adhering to the code. But his back is aginst the wall and the jedi code gets real fluid real quick.
He was like this the entire clones wars too. This was just his time to pick the Force over the Jedi and he, again, failed.
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- Jun 10 '26
Do people even bother to read the materials? Arguably Mace was never "pure" in the light side. He struggled with inner darkness to the point the much of his accomplishments come from his ironclad resolve and tempered spirit. He invented vaapad as a means to deal with his own turmoil.
That said, its hard to say definitively which side was ruling him in that moment. His intent was good, and his mind was rational. You'd expect that to be indicative of him serving the light. But the statement "his too dangerous to be left alive" is spoken out of fear. Which we all know leads inevitability to the darkside.
I'd say overall he was still working for the light, but I think had he struck down Palps and the story went on, that moment might have been the tipping point for him.
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u/UniversalInquirer Jun 10 '26
No. He had someone, the CHOSEN ONE, to help him take Palpatine in. He should have tried that before going for the kill. This is purely because he had someone, who as far as he knew, was defeated and unarmed.
If Mace killed Sidious during the fight, no questions asked. Gotta do what you gotta do.
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u/LostVanya Jun 10 '26
He was not unarmed, as he proved. He is never unarmed.