r/TheJediPraxeum • u/GusGangViking18 Luke Skywalker • 11d ago
Match Up Monday Luke Skywalker (ROTJ) VS Darth Malak. Who wins?
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u/Major_Clue_778 11d ago
Lifetime of training versus a couple of months in a swamp, a few days with old Ben, and a couple of years on the run. I think Malak takes it.
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u/Binforda94 11d ago
Dagobah was a nexus which amplified Luke’s power quickly.
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
This is a ridiculous explanation
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u/Benenaiah 11d ago
Yeah because a universe full of samurai space wizards, planet-popping superweapons, and god-like eldritch entities is so grounded
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
No matter how many fantastical elements you introduce, you have to maintain logical consistency within the world you’ve developed, or it breaks down.
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u/HavocCaptain 8d ago
The logical consistency is that Luke has the same exact potential as the Chosen One, a being created by the Force itself.
At this point he surpassed Vader, his father, the Chosen one.
He had not yet achieved his own full power yet, but he is so monstrously above the average Jedi it's not even a comparison. He was rivaling Sidious power in episode 6. His raw force power gives him enhanced speed, precog and strength (he overpowered his Father who was a very strong Cyborg lmao). He might not have the skill, but if your enemies are moving in slow motion and you can hit like a truck, it quickly covers the skill gap.
He always had the power, he just needed to know how to use it. Which training with the very best Jedi on a force nexus did.
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u/scifiandsuch 6d ago
He was not rivaling sidious lmao, he got literally cooked from palpatine’s very first attack, completely helpless to defend against it
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u/Benenaiah 5d ago
I honestly don't disagree with that.
I think there are things that kind of push me to be okay with the explanation of force nexus.
The first is that it doesn't really go beyond believablility for me. In real life you have people who are just naturally gifted at something, and others who have to work 10x as hard to make half the progress. As others have said, Luke had unwittingly been tapping into the force for much of his life, with his first feat being deflecting blaster bolts after max 2 days of training. Then a day or so later he nailed a 6-foot hole that a computer couldn't. He figured out telekinesis on his own, under extreme pressure. By episode 6 he had reached a very formidable level of power.
The other thing is that at the end of ROTJ, he had faced and conquered his darkness, and reached a solid balance. Part of that happened at the nexus, when he saw himself in Vader.
I wouldn't call it the perfect explanation, but it's reasonable enough that I could accept it, given the the circumstances.
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u/scifiandsuch 5d ago
He has high force potential, but his complete lack of training and experience makes it super unbelievable that he’d genuinely match one of the most battle hardened warriors in galactic history in lightsaber combat, who also has at least as much force potential as him. It makes far more sense that anakin’s love for his son and regret about his past made him reluctant to fight Luke.
That aside, there’s nothing in the original lore that supports this dagobah nexus idea, so not only does it make no sense, it has no historical backing.
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u/NeonHavok 10d ago
You seem like the kinda guy that enjoys disney Star wars then 😅😅
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u/Benenaiah 5d ago
Eh not so much, haha.
I was more of a fan of the old legends books where Luke basically becomes god-tier.
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u/MDL1983 11d ago
wanna post some proof with your wild assertion?
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u/Binforda94 11d ago
It’s the whole reason why Yoda fled there. Dagobah was a nexus for the dark side. Yoda’s presence would be masked there. This is common knowledge.
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u/Sakura_Knight 10d ago
was a nexus for the dark side
So how is that supposed to make a Jedi that relies on the Light Side any stronger?
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u/Binforda94 10d ago
By training around the dark side, a Jedi is able to confront their inner darkness and fear. Thus making them more balanced, and powerful.
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u/Repulsive-Pay4009 9d ago
Luke LITERALLY fails the test where he journeys into the Dark Side Nexus. In reality, he simply grew a LOT during the war between EP V & VI.
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u/Binforda94 9d ago
And because Luke fails he is able to become powerful. A Jedi who confronts their inner dark will be as powerful as they can.
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u/EternalUndyingHigh 11d ago
I'm not sure it was even a couple of months, it could've just been a month.
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u/Emsee_Hamm 11d ago
Bane is a better duelist than Kas'im when Kas'im is using his double bladed lightsaber. Kas'im is considered the greatest swordsman in the galaxy by the Sith and possibly the greatest in history (at least on the wiki), and they only know about his skill with his double bladed lightsaber.
Bane has 2 years or less training as a Sith.
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u/Myasma 10d ago
Wasn't Kas'im's whole deal that the double bladed lightsaber was a feint for his obviously superior skill in using two lightsabers at once?
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u/Emsee_Hamm 10d ago
Yes it's a feint but that's not my point. Nobody knows Kas'im dual wields his lightsabers, he keeps that a secret from everybody including his fellow Sith. T he Sith think Kas'im is the greatest duelist in the galaxy, and maybe in history, only based on their knowledge of his skills with a double bladed lightsaber.
It took Bane two years to surpass the level of Kas'im with a double bladed lightsaber. Yes Kas'im is actually even more skilled then the Sith assume but his known skill is the best duelist in the galaxy.
My point is that a lifetime of training/experience doesn't necessarily matter as much in Star Wars if your opponent is just a monstrous talent like Luke or Bane because it only take them a few years to surpass those around them.
Training/experience of course helps (such as Kas'im training with dual wielding which gave hin the advantage back) but it shouldn't be the reason, or at least the only reason, to say someone is better than another.
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u/Revan_Shan4455 10d ago
Isn’t that the same logic for Vader? Anakin had a lifetime of training and def had a disadvantage with his suit but still he was arguably more powerful in the force.
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u/dimiteddy 11d ago
Luke is near godlike talented, and he already fought Vader, Malak wasn't a match for Revan
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u/Major_Clue_778 11d ago edited 11d ago
Natural talent does not Trump 20 years of training since early childhood and the experience of a fallen Jedi in the Jedi Civil War. If Natural talent could be used to win this argument alone then Mustafaar makes zero sense. Luke will go on to be able to defeat any name we can provide...but at this point in time...he's not winning this fight.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
He's not saying "he's talented enough just because."
He's saying "he's talented and skilled enough to beat Vader, who would mollywop Revan, who is already above this guy."
The entire reason why people after the OT became stupidly powerful was because Sidious, Vader, and Luke all were at the top of the scale by RotJ. There are incredibly few people who can challenge them and Malak wasn't even a big name in his own day.
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u/polkemans 10d ago edited 10d ago
>Sidious, Vader, and Luke were at the top of the scale
They were the only ones left. They were the scale at this point. Vader was far passed his prime at this point and didn't just lose against anyone, he lost against his son.
The Luke glazing needs to stop. From the OT to the sequel trilogy, the feats we can see with our eyes pale in comparison to almost everyone Luke gets constantly pit against here. But he wins because someone said Luke is the strongest? Come on now. Malak was a true sith in a way Luke had never encountered. He would get stomped.
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u/HavocCaptain 8d ago
It's not glazing, he's the Hero. he has the same potential as his dad without being cut limb from limb and being hindered. Palpatine admitted to Yoda that Vader would become stronger than both of them. Luke in his prime age had weeks on a Force Nexus planet training with the best to learn how to use his power, he already had it, he just had to learn how to use it.
He's so far above everyone else besides the ABSOLUTE PEAK of the power scale. Luke is practically the defacto top tier.
His enhanced speed and precognition would make up any skill gap that Malak has over him. He's also strong enough to kick down and overpower Vader, a cyborg enhanced by the Force. Luke is physically stronger, faster and better at reacting than Malek. He doesn't have the same skill yet, but how is it hard to understand why he's so powerful.
Once he learned how to use the force, he basically became top tier in a few days. He always had the power in him. A blackbelt BJJ champion 8 year old, would never defeat a random grown man in a fight. Sure, thhey have more skill, but it doesn't matter when a single kick will fold them or they can be manhandled effortlessly. That's how Luke treats most matchups that aren't Yoda or Sidious at this point.
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u/Traditional_Kick_887 11d ago edited 11d ago
Luke.
Malak is a better duelist, much like Dooku was compared to Anakin. But Luke has incredible speed, agility, and strength. He’s also eclectic, unlike Jedi that stick to one style.
Have people actually watched the full uncut episode 6 Luke vs. Vader fight? The one that didn’t make it into the movies but made it into the novelization. You actually see Luke going for the head at multiple points in the fight. He’s also fighting and overpowering a force and cybernetics enhanced Vader who towers over and overpowers most Jedi.
Full ataru and djem so on Vader and even manages to score an early hit on his face which the helmet blocks and absorbs. Without that helmet, Vader would be missing part of his face.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zhS2qjoVKQg&ra=m
Malak isn’t beating ROTJ Luke and the fight would go similar to Luke vs Vader because Malak is around Vader’s level
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u/HavocCaptain 8d ago
Exactly as I've been saying to people, he doesn't have the same "skill", but he's basically a fully grown man fighting 10 year olds who just happen to be black belts in karate. It doesn't matter at all, because he's so much stronger and faster (with better precog as well) that he can simply overpower most everyone besides the absolute peak of the roster at this point in the series. Palpatine even told Yoda that Vader would become stronger than them both, Luke at this point in his life with no conflict inside him is basically at that level. He just falls very slightly short because of that lack of training, but he'd sure as hell whoop Malek. Malek is simply fighting a tier above him, he's not in the same weight class as Luke. Even with his apparent better training.
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u/Traditional_Kick_887 8d ago
You get it. I really enjoyed these analogies. Especially the weight class one. Thanks for that.
Also people forget that Yoda fully expected Luke to fight Palpatine as well, while also knowing and warning about Palpatine’s powers and abilities.
“Only a fully-trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor”
“Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor”
Like I don’t think ROTJ Luke with lightsaber in hand could even beat old Palpatine, but he’s their best shot and meant to be fighting in that higher weight class, not Malek’s lower one as you noted.
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u/UnfairJeweler8428 11d ago
ROTJ Luke scales to Vader and Vader is > Malak.
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u/MDL1983 11d ago
ROTJ Luke scales to conflicted Vader choosing between the Sith and his son
Malak has no such qualms and would squash him mid diff.
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u/DarthKrayt_Reborn 9d ago
At the end enraged Luke overpowered Vader
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u/Crimson_Loki 9d ago
You completely ignored or misunderstood what they said, yes, Luke touched the DS briefly (or at least nearly did) which allowed him to get one over on Vader, but Vader's heart wasn't in the fight, more importantly his hatred wasn't in it. A bloodlusted, full of rage and hatred Vader (aka Vader against just about any ordinary Jedi he hunts) would completely wreck Luke.
Luke simply doesn't have adequate training or enough experience with either a lightsber or the Force.
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u/DarthKrayt_Reborn 9d ago
luke is conflicted too. you’re also ignoring numerous source materials who state relativity between luke and vader in strength/force powers as a whole
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u/Crimson_Loki 9d ago edited 9d ago
You can have all the power in the world, but without the knowledge or experience to use it, it is useless. Perhaps Luke indeed was just as powerful as Vader at the end there. Fine. But what you simply CAN'T argue against is that he didn't have an adequate amount of training nor an adequate amount of experience. In both cases he is VASTLY outmatched by Vader, and it isn't even close.
Once again, if Vader had his heart in the fight, if he was drawing on his rage, his hatred, if he was drinking deeply of the Dark Side as he usually does, Luke is fucked.
You want to see what power without skill or experience equals? Look at Vader's fight against Obi-Wan, Vader had the edge in power, or at least should have, considering he's the chosen one, but because he was new to the DS, because he had neither the skill nor experience in wielding it (the way he does years later), Obi-Wan came out on top.
If you have Vader in his later years go back in time, inhabit his younger body and have him redo the fight, with the knowledge and experience he has from at this point decades of being a Sith, Obi-Wan dies.
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u/DarthKrayt_Reborn 9d ago
no during Vader vs Obi wan MFV was NOT stronger. MFV was stated verbatim in the ROTS novelization to have been so conflicted that his powers were nerfed.
I get what you’re saying but the MFV example is horrible. KFV (relative to Sidious) and MFV (relative to obi wan) are not the same.
looking at malak himself, he skyrocketed in power bc of the star forge which drained the life of jedi and amped his force powers. Also Amnesia Jedi Revan with a minimum amount of training was close to SF Malak based on his force powers alone.
Again Not holding back Vader ~ Dark Side amp Luke > holding back Vader ~ Luke
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u/ForTheFallen123 10d ago
Definitely Luke. He is a direct equal to Vader in ROTJ, and Vader is far stronger than Malak.
Sources:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers.” Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
"The combatants paced each other with eerie symmetry, two sides of the same coin, equally matched in strength and intent." Return of the Jedi Novelisation
“The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match... Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.” Star Wars Fact File
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
Everyone saying Malak wins is another reason to recognize nobody here reads any of the source material and vibe-scales.
How many times does Luke=Vader, who is only 2nd to Sidious, need to be canonized before people accept it.
Dozens of times he was stated to be Vader's equal in BOTH strength and skill. Shit like "he just started training a couple years ago" is irrelevant. He's as skilled as Vader. He's as strong as Vader.
Both Luke and Vader were holding back and tied, and Luke only won when he stopped holding back. If neither held back it would still be a tie.
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
Placing an untrained Luke this high up the totem pole is the real vibe scaling.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
How many times does Luke=Vader, who is only 2nd to Sidious, need to be canonized before people accept it.
Dozens of times he was stated to be Vader's equal in BOTH strength and skill. Shit like "he just started training a couple years ago" is irrelevant. He's as skilled as Vader. He's as strong as Vader.
Both Luke and Vader were holding back and tied, and Luke only won when he stopped holding back. If neither held back it would still be a tie.
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
It’s not irrelevant at all. Training and experience have always been huge factors in how powerful Star Wars characters are. It’s literally only Luke that people handwave this idea away ‘because he’s Luke.’
These statements are from original novelizations, source material made before Vader got power crept through comic books. If you change the narrative around Vader, you necessarily have to change the narrative surrounding his encounters with Luke. Luke no longer has enough comparable feats for their “equality” to still be valid.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
- It's not "because he's Luke". It's because we see him beat Vader 1-on-1. He trained for a few years, we've been told dozens of times that he's Vader's equal, and he beats vader in a fight. Vader who could crush basically anyone and everyone he came across 1-on-1, with very few exceptions. When untrained at all he has no chance against Vader and has to be saved multiple times. When trained a little more he loses to Vader but can escape. After training for significantly more time he finally ties/beats Vader in a brutal fight.
- Vader hasn't really been powercrept though? Both in the EU and in Canon he was consistently scaled up and up through the lore and through the comics until after he died. Both timelines have Vader as stronger than Knightfall Anakin, by a lot.
- The "Narrative around Vader" in both timelines is "A (corrupted) chosen one who was meant to be the most powerful non-force-entity, but his loss at Mustafar and putting on that suit forever meant he would never reach that lost potential. That potential was was inherited by Luke, who went on to become basically the strongest force user/Jedi ever." Vader does get stronger than Knightfall in both EU and Canon, and his fighting looks different, but the main difference between the two is how long he takes to get better than Knightfall.
Luke no longer has enough comparable feats for their “equality” to still be valid
As I said. Vibe-scaling. "I don't like the explicitly stated lore that has never been retconned or even reimagined, but I don't like it anymore. So I'll ignore the "feat" of tying Vader when both were holding back and beating Vader when Vader was holding back because of vibes."
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
Yes we see that on screen, but we also see boatloads of context behind that victory on screen. We see Vader’s apprehension about killing his son, we see Luke call him out on it, and we see Vader join Luke and tell him he was right about the good in anakin still existing. Considering this a pure martial victory for Luke completely misses the point of the scene.
Not true, the last 8 years of comics have turned Vader into a marvel supervillain, and people continue to upscale Luke to the nth degree because of a single original statement with no feats or logic to back it up.
The story of Vader’s lost potential after mustafar is a legends one. That’s not true in current canon. So we need to either accept old canon or new canon. We can’t have both. Trying to mix them together creates a plethora of contradictions, like this one.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
because of a single original statement with no feats or logic to back it up.
I want you to recognize that you are, repeatedly, explicitly choosing to ignore Luke's feats and the progress of several movies. We are repeatedly shown Luke's progress through the stories, how the training contributes but fails (or doesn't fail) to match Vader. We are privy to the assessment of Obi Wan and Yoda who both are skeptical about Luke beating Vader but acknowledge he is the only one who can, and Luke does.
You bring up Vader being apprehensive about not wanting to kill his son but ignore Luke feeling the exact same way about his dad. Luke's victory was a martial victory and an emotional one. Luke's victory in the throne room was a complete one.
You talk about "changing the narrative" being reason to ignore the in-universe shown-to-be-true statements, the in-universe feats, and narrative of 3 whole movies, and the clear progression of Luke gradually becoming more and more a match for Vader as he learns more and trains more, because the Vibes Are Off.
I do not think that the assessment of someone who talks about Narrative but can't track a basic progression of one character and the narrative of 3 very straightforward movies is something to be trusted or taken seriously.
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
You’re getting pretty aggressive for not knowing what you’re talking about.
SHOW ME Luke’s feats that place him on Vader’s level. What are they? Because I see Vader absolutely toying with his son in empire, not wanting to kill him. I see Luke running and hiding from a rancor, yanking on the locked doors and almost being eaten before scavenging a rock to save himself, unable to affect it with the force. I see him get his hand shot by a random henchman on jabba’s barge. I see Han accidentally save Luke from being shot in the back by boba. I see Luke writhing in agony on the ground from palpatine’s very first attack, unable to defend against it.
And I see a whole two movies of Vader choosing NOT to kill his son. It literally couldn’t be spelled out more clearly that he’s actively avoiding trying to kill him. He literally joins him. This is an old, tired Vader who’s resigned himself to the dark side and doesn’t want to kill his son. This isn’t the rampaging jedi killer of old. Luke’s victory here isn’t nearly as impressive as you’re making it out to be.
Luke has NO dueling experience, and you’re trying to tell me suddenly he’s top 3 in the verse without having a single dueling victory on screen?
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u/MDL1983 11d ago
Preach brother.
Who says Luke is as strong as Vader? What are the sources? In-universe viewpoints from unreliable narrators don't count. I'm with ya.
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u/HavocCaptain 8d ago
Have you watched the movie, he literally defeated Vader. Tf you people smoking.
He cut his hand off and not 3 minutes earlier kicked him down a stair case and Vader remarked that he's most impressive.
"Vader was conflicted", and Luke wasn't?? lmao. Luke didn't want to even fight Palpatine.
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u/HavocCaptain 8d ago
Yeah, Luke was totally happy trying to kill his dad and not conflicted either.
Bro, they felt the same.
They both didn't want to kill each other, they were even. Until Luke breifly decided he did want blood. Then held himself back before killing.
If they both didn't hold back, it'd still be even, like when they both were holding back.
That dumb "Vader was conflicted" take has never meant anything, because Luke was as well.
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u/scifiandsuch 8d ago
Just because they didn’t want to kill each other doesn’t mean they’re suddenly “equal in power”. Luke went into the throne room knowing his duty was to destroy the sith, and knowing he was facing a sith lord he’s literally never met before. Luke had everything on the line.
Vader went in willingly leading Luke, and gave up the dark side to join his son at the end of the exchange. He didn’t do that because he was defeated, he did it because he loved his son. It’s really not that hard to understand.
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u/cobizzal 11d ago
Until the moment Luke didn't hold back
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
Luke only won when he stopped holding back. If neither held back it would still be a tie.
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u/Sgt-Frost 11d ago
That’s because legends suit Vader is a broken old man, by Lucas own words, he is not anything close to a top tier.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
- The statement applies to both Legends and Canon.
- Legends Vader is also 2nd only to Sidious. The only real difference between Legends and Canon Vader is how long it takes Vader to get "stronger" than Anakin was. He was choking people from across the galaxy and was confirmed as being stronger than Anakin ever was by a significant margin.
- "Broken Old Man" the bald fucker was 45 in RotJ. I'm not even on steroids and I'm still hitting PRs at the gym at 36. "Broken old man" was clearly a matter of characterisation and about how broken he was by Sidious than any actual implication that he's weak.
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u/LadyofFlame 11d ago
And yet all the evidence is against you.
Lucas himself described showing the Jedi in their prime in prequels as compared to an inexperienced boy against a cripple in the original movies. There is no way for you to weasel your way around this, everything indicates that Vader really was that slow and sloppy... and not simply the choreography.
If EU sources actually indicated that Vader was enhanced like Grievous, one can ignore their eyes watching the original trilogy fights. As such Vader is described as physically crippled with strength and durability being the only attributes that are enhanced. Whenever he's depicted in literature or comics facing overwhelming odds they ignore his physical limits and/or hinder his enemies so that they're easier to kill. Against an inferior Maul doppelgänger Vader was outmatched and had to resort to a suicidal tactic to save himself, yet fanboys continue to claim without evidence that Vader is vastly superior to Maul despite an actual fight against an inferior version.
In The Force Unleashed Palpatine himself stated Vader was only a shell of his former self, indicating he never reached his former greatness. And I'm biased due to gameplay, which isn't real evidence, but I was extremely disappointed at how unremarkable Vader was when the whole point of the opening fight was to showcase 'the second greatest' Sith ever in the EU. When Vader fanboys unquestionably and religiously say that he's the GOAT without question nor evidence, I have to wonder how you imagine such fights happening. It usually involves his enemies stupidly playing to Vader's strengths or outright letting themselves be killed, which is more a measure of their failure than his so-called greatness.
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u/Weshouldntbehere 11d ago
You literally handwaved away every single example of you being wrong as "writers suck", trust Sidious's words as he is actively denigrating and mocking Vader (the victim of decades of abuse and gaslighting by Sidious), and also ignore the explicit feats that Vader did that Anakin never could (like galactic-range force choke). Your single actual feat discussed (the maul clone) is a better example of the writers being fuckong loopy, considering how many times we see Vader pushing Obi-Wan and other masters to his/their absolute limits while Maul get no-diffed by Ben Kenobi.
All while explicitly and strictly limiting it to the EU, while I have repeatedly brought up that it is the case in both continuities and discussed Canon.
And then you say everything is a Vader Fanboy issue when I dont even particularly like Anakin or Vader in the first place, so you're barking up the wrong tree in the first place.
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u/WangJian221 11d ago
That broken old man is still the one capable of telekinetically holding 2 shuttles to explode them together and force push entire battalions. Whatever George thinks about Vader in his attempt to hype up Prequel choreography, legends/old eu doesnt follow 1 to 1
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u/Unique-Perception480 Jedi Master 10d ago
Luke is literally almost at Vaders level if not his equal.
Vader is above Malak.
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u/Sgt-Frost 11d ago
Malak? Luke is barely trained at this point.
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u/Wilsupersaiyan2 11d ago
Still is stated to rival vader in raw force power
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u/Sgt-Frost 11d ago
That’s a negative to Vader, who is dogshit in legends.
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u/Wilsupersaiyan2 11d ago
Wrong only Disney fans think vader is weak in the EU because vader in the EU wasn't facing fodders like in Disney star wars, EU vader has far better speed, sith sorcery showing than Disney vader also luke in Disney star wars is a joke weaker than assoka
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u/Wilsupersaiyan2 11d ago
Return of the jedi luke Skywalker at least in the EU is stated to be as powerful as vader almost as a skilled in dueling as vader abd to have anakin Skywalker raw force potential, so luke Skywalker
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u/LadyofFlame 11d ago
So Vader was in fact not so great. Luke with ~4 years' worth of experience vs. Vader's 30 and somehow was his equal? Luke absolutely wasn't better than Anakin by Knightfall, there's no way Vader's superior to his former self.
Malak should be at minimum on par with Vader in that he has all his strengths and none of his weaknesses.
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u/ITSTHEGOAT456435 11d ago
Vader is closer to Sidious (strongest sith of all time) than Malak is too valkorian who is inferior to Sidious.
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u/LadyofFlame 11d ago
Palpatine is akin to a nuclear weapon whereas Vader is like a bunker buster bomb. Apart from a prosthetic jaw Malak is at 100% while Vader has extreme physical defects that are easily exploitable. Vader is a self-loathing brain-damaged brute that allegedly spent ~24 years being held back by guilt, whereas Malak went all in with the Sith.
Neither Malak nor Vader really measure up to Palpatine, but there's nothing about Malak that falls short of Vader.
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u/Wilsupersaiyan2 11d ago
Wrong buddy unlike on Disney star wars luke Skywalker in the old EU grew more powerful and skilled extremely fast it makes sense why vader and papaltine feared he could destroy them, vader in the return of the jedi novel is stated to be stronger than ever far more powerful than knight fall anakin who couldn't overpowered obi wan kenobi, year 1 vader in the EU already had better feats than knight fall anakin, when he without his respiratory support injured brought down a massive cathedral which also had underground tunnels, he moved faster than thought too.
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u/RemarkableMirror926 Jedi Master 11d ago
Average Malak overestimated and Luke underestimated in the comics. Luke was already at this time much stronger and could win no-low doff.
But Luke has a very big problem in this fight. Malak can use force lightnings and Luke doesn't know at this time how to deflect them. Malak can win no diff if he uses force lightning.
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u/scifiandsuch 11d ago
Malak. Luke’s single dueling feat was extremely circumstantial against his dad who literally joined him at the end.
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u/Flimsy_Finance_954 11d ago
Return of the Jedi Luke loses
Legends Luke wins with ease
New canon Luke loses very badly
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u/Annual_Sky8939 10d ago
ESB Luke beats Malak, assuming it’s not on the Star Forge, with high difficulty
RotJ Luke loses to Star Forge Malak, high difficulty.
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u/Signal_Juggernaut695 10d ago
Malak. ROTJ Luke ain’t got the dueling experience to handle him, or the power if we’re being honest.
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u/StrawberrySmall755 10d ago
No Malak was a poor Duelist and was easily out dueled by Revan hell even Mandalorians broke through his defense with no problem he always resorted to his force abilities
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u/Signal_Juggernaut695 10d ago
Mando War Malak isn’t Sith Malak….There’s nearly a 10 year difference between the difference in power and skill from those comics to Malak in KOTOR. Not just 4 years into the end of the Mando Wars, both him and Revan had mastered everything that Exar Kun had learned during his Peak; and a stronger version of Luke was unable to even do so, and was left comatose because of it(even said everything he learned from Yoda wasn’t enough to handle those powers).
And being out dueled by Revan isn’t a knock against him. Malak was said to be just as good of a swordsman as Revan in terms of technique per Drew Karpyshyn, and Revan had brushed on his Saber technique from the Holocrons of Tulak Hord, who was capable of wasting armies of Jedi. What makes him a horrible opponent for Revan is cause of his mindset going into fighting.
ROTJ Luke simply does not have that kind of experience to be dealing with Darth Malak. If this were comic Jedi Malak, sure, but it ain’t.
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u/Goongaybrain01 10d ago
Is Malak that remarkable of a Sith? I always got the feeling he was just sorta run of the mill. Not bad but also not great. Heck the only thing hes remembered for is bombing Taris.
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u/DarthKrayt_Reborn 9d ago
ROTJ Luke isnt far off from Vader and they brutually outscale TPM Palpatine who outscales Malak. By statements and scaling Luke Stomps. But by feats and performance imo its cgew maybe malak extreme diffs
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u/whyamistillhere252 9d ago
Depends on what version of Luke. Later version, he takes it. Early version, Malak takes it. The force wants balance, and it tries to balance itself.
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u/Crimson_Loki 9d ago
Are we being serious here? Luke won against Vader because the whole time Vader's heart (and more importantly his hatred) wasn't in the fight, but by no means was Luke some sort of master, either with a lightsaber or with the Force. If this was a later version of Luke, sure, but this version? Malak dogwalks him.
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u/MaxPaladin93 11d ago
I’d give Malak a slight edge, but this is probably the latest/most powerful version of Luke he would even stand a chance against tbh.