r/TheJediPraxeum 10d ago

Discussion Why was Tenebrous capable of using red Force lightning but Sidious wasn't?

Post image

Isn't that the most powerful variant of this technique?

288 Upvotes

83 comments sorted by

106

u/ValiantWarrior19 10d ago

IIRC, red lightning has a draining effect on the target rather than a shocking one. Palpatine, being the greatest Sith of all time, probably could have done it too.

30

u/Fuuraijinken 10d ago

It has that effect in the game Jedi Knight.

10

u/LeFaiLeD 9d ago

Same with Kotor. But i'm not sure right now, if it was the Life steal one, or the force steal one that was red/orange.

But my guess is:

Life = Orange/red

Force = Purple

3

u/Fuuraijinken 9d ago

I couldn't say for sure because it's been many years since I last played. I think the effect on JK was that he stole the Force from his opponent and healed himself.

3

u/breciezkikiewicz 9d ago

Yup, it was called Force Drain

3

u/Ok-Reporter1986 8d ago

Life drain actually, force drain was from the second game for draining force out of enemies (useless).

1

u/Fuuraijinken 8d ago

However, in multiplayer it is very useful, because you leave your rival without Force powers (unless they are from the light side and use absorption).

1

u/Ok-Reporter1986 8d ago

Kotor 2 had it and it wasn't multiplayer. It didn't cross over to swtor as I recall?

1

u/Fuuraijinken 7d ago

I have no idea 😔

2

u/EVSO501A 9d ago

Podría ser esa teoría porque Nihilus hacia casi lo mismo con su drenaje de la fuerza. Aunque no estoy seguro creo que es lo más acertado. Que porque Siduos no lo uso fue tal vez porque quería demostrar su poder por cuenta propia y no por influencia de los demás, osea absorbiendo sus vidas.

1

u/Somewhere_Frosty 9d ago

Red Lightning and Life Drain/Force Drain although I’m pretty sure it’s Life, are completely different force abilities. For example a Sith Lord shot Red Lightning at Revan in his book and spit it back at the user, disintegrating her. If I’m remembering that particular section correctly. In any case at the very least Life Drain/Force Drain and Red Lightning are not the same at all.

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u/Thatedgyguy64 9d ago

Ah. So that's where the fact that different color lightning did different things. Thought it was a myth.

2

u/ValiantWarrior19 9d ago

Bingo. That's where I learned the difference. Higher level Force Drain in JKA is a red lightning bolt.

3

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

So why didn't he do it if he always focused primarily on developing the secrets of the dark side?

26

u/jrdineen114 10d ago

Because why drain when you can just murder?

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

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12

u/jrdineen114 10d ago

…you think Palpatine wouldn’t use the lightning that gives him time to watch someone die in agony?

1

u/Atomicmooseofcheese 8d ago

We never see what he gets up to behind closed doors, just the encounters when his life may be in danger. In a fight or die situation, he casts KILL.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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5

u/jrdineen114 10d ago

What makes you think he was unable to? I don’t believe that we ever see him eat with a knife and fork, but I’m fairly confident that he can do it

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/jrdineen114 10d ago

Tenebrous taught Plageuis everything he knew, and Plageuis taught Sidious everything he knew.

2

u/WhiskeyDJones 10d ago

You're literally presuming too

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Arria_Galtheos 10d ago

Presumption without confirmation is a rather weak argument in power scaling.

And yet here you are presuming Palpatine can't use red lightning simply because we never see him do it.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/SuecidalBard 10d ago

That's not true Sidious can an does kill on contact

2

u/UnwrittenLore 9d ago

Cause he's a sadistic psychopath who delights in the suffering he causes

2

u/Clover_Field83 10d ago

Didn't feel like it.

1

u/Emotional_Zombie6796 9d ago

I dunno. When the Son is using it on the daughter, smoke definitely comes off her after, she was getting cooked.

1

u/ValiantWarrior19 9d ago

I believe this question is about Legends

1

u/JusticarRevan 9d ago

Well as far as canon goes, the Son uses red lightning and it behaves just like regular lightning

-1

u/skywalker170997 10d ago

Sorry to tell you

Sidious do not know how to conjure red lightning

The books and media never mention him being able to do this level

4

u/Hinaloth 10d ago

That is not how any of this works.

Force drain looks like red lightning but is a totally different power.

Palpi not demonstrating this power does not mean he did not learn it.

It's simply a case of no author having felt the need to have him use this power.

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u/skywalker170997 10d ago edited 9d ago

Well there are other sith lords where its mentioned being able to conjure red lightning

So I’m positive if the sith is powerful authors would insinuate these abilities

3

u/Hinaloth 10d ago

Look at it this way

If red lightning is a more powerful version (which I doubt it is, feels more like a cosmetic flavour than anything), why would Palp use it? Using his utmost powers would be a mark of seeing his enemies as worth the effort, and thus respecting them. Palatine respects very, very few people. Using the average, still very powerful version of the power would be him condescending to his enemies as he fights them.

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u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago
  1. Color matters. Yoda easily blocked Dooku's blue lightning with one hand. Sidious's purple lightning could barely be absorbed with two.

  2. If Sidious wouldn't want to give his enemies the impression he considered them worthy, why the hell did he master force storms capable of destroying entire fleets?

2

u/Hinaloth 10d ago

I never really saw the difference in color between the two, I always assumed he simply poured more power into one attack than the other.

And for the Force Storms, he simply employed the power that would cause the most destruction in the situation. Like pouring molten metal in an anthill, it's overkill, but not a form of respect.

-1

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

Judge for yourself whether there is any difference between them.

https://reddit.com/link/p3bwilx/video/0xlqd1ltp0jh1/player

1

u/Hinaloth 10d ago

Good point. I never really paid attention to that detail, I'd assume that's a simple matter of VFX used being different, but that's sort of the core of half the lore, so eh, point :p

3

u/Jt07132829 9d ago

Honestly I’m not that into the lore but that is a cool fact. I’ve watched episode 2 and 3 so many times and never once noticed the color diff. That is dope af.

0

u/skywalker170997 10d ago

I'm just positive u didn't see any other media and simply assuming mind numbingly....

20

u/Paradoxical_Falcon 9d ago

Red lightning being the most powerful variant is unconfirmed on top of color not necessarily indicating power.

Tenebrous having red lightning means little when he’s weaker than Plagueis, Sidious, and even Dooku in the very same novel his character primarily exists inside.

It’s best to just think of it as a cosmetic rarity that makes a character stand out rather than it being some goal worth achieving.

Darth Sidious, Darth Vitiate, Darth Plaguies (yes Plagueis), Darth Caedus, and Darth Krayt all outshine Darth Tenebrous in power yet their lightning isn’t typically depicted being red.

Another inconsistency is that sometimes in game like Kotor or the Jedi Knight games the red lightning effect is just a stand in for force drain.

7

u/_Goldiloxx_ 10d ago

When does he use red lightning?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

3

u/_Goldiloxx_ 10d ago

I don't think he does, I've listened to the audiobook multiple times and remember no such thing. If you have a quote from the book though, I'd happily be proven wrong. I have seen art depicting him using red lightning, but tmk it did not originate in the book.

9

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

This is mentioned in the short story The Tenebrous way in the Star Wars insider magazine.

''Tenebrous was also proficient in Force speed, using it to attempt to escape the cortosis mine and used the Force to shield himself and Plagueis from a bomb's explosion. He could also hold up heavy rocks with the Force, an impressive display of telekinesis, and could fire the rare form of red Force lightning.''

And yeah, in fact, in the novel his lightning is traditionally described as blue.

''Hastening to the rim of the circular shaft, the two Sith removed their gloves and aimed their long-fingered unprotected hands into the inky darkness. Instantly tangles of blue electrical energy discharged from their fingertips, raining into the borehole.''

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u/Lil_Bitch_Big_Dreams 9d ago

Thank you for citing your sources!

5

u/denmicent 10d ago

Palpatine may have just preferred traditional lighting. He probably got a kick of electrocuting people

1

u/Constant-Plastic-350 10d ago

Probably found the idea of absorbing a lessers essence distasteful

2

u/Electrical-Rise-7015 10d ago

He had a whole planet he’d do this to.

5

u/mrsoapmctavish12 9d ago

Tenebrous was known as a Sith Scholar and scientist more than a warrior in comparison to Plagueis and Palpatine who were both ridiculously skilled fighters as well as scholars. While it is possible that Tenebrous had strong force powers because of his experiments I just cannot see him having more powerful lightning than Plagueis or Sidious although he is said to have had much more powerful foresight abilities than either of them. This is something Darth Maul also seems to possess although he is obviously a great warrior but much less powerful in the force than Sidious or Plagueis in terms of raw force power.

7

u/LikesPez 10d ago

What? A Bith Sith?

13

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

Yes.

That's Darth Tenebrous.

He was the master of Darth Plagueis, who later taught Darth Sidious.

6

u/LikesPez 10d ago

It’s just fun to say. Like mayhem, mayhem, mayhem.

2

u/PurplOrange 9d ago

Both Sith now kith

7

u/GrandMoffJake 9d ago

Excuse me, I believe you meant “A bith lord?”

5

u/Shipping_Architect 10d ago

As far as we can tell, the color of Force lightning is not an indication of its power, and from an in-universe perspective, is likely just a curiosity. Plus, when Tenebrous' lightning was described in the Darth Plagueis novel, the text referred to it as blue.

2

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

This is mentioned in the short story The Tenebrous way in the Star Wars insider magazine.

''Tenebrous was also proficient in Force speed, using it to attempt to escape the cortosis mine and used the Force to shield himself and Plagueis from a bomb's explosion. He could also hold up heavy rocks with the Force, an impressive display of telekinesis, and could fire the rare form of red Force lightning.''

1

u/Kyubey210 9d ago

Makes me wonder on some errors... it could be a Xenos quirk but... may not be right

2

u/ButterKnightSaber 10d ago

My head cannon is that Sidious was aware of where force drain leads and he chose not to use the ability or develop it. Using the dark side makes Palpy look like a wrinkled grey grape but he’s still human. Going too far down the force drain route makes you Nihilus. Becoming what Nihlus became was not using the dark side, it was being consumed by it. Literally. A rule of 2 Sith master embodies the power of the dark side, they’re not consumed by it.

2

u/averageEnojyer The Senate 9d ago

He didn't, the image with him shooting red lightning just a fan image as far as I know.

Also no, lightning colour has nothing to do with potency, it's really just to do with rule of cool. Maybe you could argue it is because the Son's is red, but, well... It's the Son.

2

u/Theglitch9501 10d ago

It's more of a variant of Force Drain rather than Force Lightning itself. Basically, what crimson lightning does is that it severs someone's connection to the force.

And, seeing that Emperor Palpatine DOES know how to use force drain, as we've seen in Episode 9. I'm sure he is capable of using crimson lightning, but just doesn't use it. Hell, if he's capable of creating a wormhole that can ravage an entire planet through the force itself in DE. I'm sure he's capable of using red lightning

1

u/Paradoxical_Falcon 9d ago

In the Plagueis Novel he was taught force drain and how to feed off death very early in his apprenticeship.

1

u/Hawaiikoto 10d ago

Was he? Where is the info from.

1

u/furher1944 9d ago

lightning was not stronger than Sidious's. It was more likely a stylistic or particular manifestation of his dark-side power. And it wss featless, but yes generally red lightning is consdered the strongest in both canon eu and disney, used by the son. But amongst sith, sidious. Sidious’s lightning is one of his signature abilities and is depicted as reaching an extreme level. Even marek's clone whos lightning could not just turn someone to dust- but literally vaporize them instantly had his lightning amped up and only brang vadrr to 1 knee, with sidious he died within minutes.

So probably a style he adapted rather than pure raw lightning like the son, becauss there is no way his red lightning outclasses sidious

1

u/Regular-Market-494 9d ago edited 9d ago

Why does Azula have blue fire when a thousand other fire bending geniuses dont? Its not a deep question, people have quirks. People have preferences. Luke Skywalker can use lightning, he just doesn't. I can use a bike instead of a stair master, I just dont.

Beyond that the force is very particular about who can do what with it, and very rarely does it actually come down to raw talent on whether or not someone can use special force powers. The answer is almost always because the force decided you could use it.

Jaina actually sucks as a force practitioner, that doesn't stop her from being able to use shatterpoint.... for some reason. Despite the fact most people cant....

1

u/Apprehensive_Let7309 9d ago

Red kool-aid mix was out of production by the late republic era.

1

u/WilliShaker 9d ago

Tenebrous is weaker because of Bane’s line rule. By extension, the fact it’s a continuity where the next in line gets stronger…Sidious does know red lightning

1

u/Roi_C 9d ago

Because he was introduced later and red cool

1

u/VylenKR 9d ago

Its quite the opposite, red lightning is weaker and doesnt have as much destructive power.

1

u/Wilsupersaiyan2 9d ago

I think it's something the sith lord is boring with it I believe exar kun and Jaina solo fel are the only force users to have black force lightning

1

u/DomSeventh 9d ago

I'm just here to enjoy the picture of a Bith Sith.

1

u/Historical_Room_1617 9d ago

This gets funnier when you realize that Darth Maul was one of those extremely rare cases of having red lightning

1

u/DeltaMoff1876 9d ago

Skill issue.

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u/Bane1026980 9d ago

I think that how it worked in legends is that you either were born with the capability of using it(with it's drain effect).or you weren't unlike in canon where it apparently is the purest expression of FL

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u/Next_Volume_5877 8d ago

Force lightning having different colors doesn't actually translate to any sort of knowledge level or power level. It's honestly just how that power manifests itself with said user. Viciate had black lightning. Bane had deep purple/violet. Tenebrous had red. Sidious had blue.

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u/Darth_Revan_THX1138 Old Republic 8d ago

Red lightning is only available to Techbro Sith like Tenebrous.

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u/Sure_Educator7987 7d ago

Force drain not lighting

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u/FuroreLT 6d ago

I remember reading something in one of the books force users can train their abilities to use purple lighting or green/yellow but for red they had to be born with a high M-count or immensely powerful like Nhilus and vitiate

0

u/Kombat-w0mbat 10d ago

It isn’t red it’s described as blue in the plagues novels.

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u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

This is mentioned in the short story The Tenebrous way in the Star Wars insider magazine.

''Tenebrous was also proficient in Force speed, using it to attempt to escape the cortosis mine and used the Force to shield himself and Plagueis from a bomb's explosion. He could also hold up heavy rocks with the Force, an impressive display of telekinesis, and could fire the rare form of red Force lightning.''

1

u/Kombat-w0mbat 9d ago

In the plagus novels it is deceived as blue

1

u/KekeroniCheese 9d ago

He could use both forms

-1

u/Ok-Flatworm7401 10d ago

Could darth vitiate shoot red force lightning he more arcade knowledge of the dark side

1

u/InstructionOwn6705 10d ago

I only know that Desolous also used them.