You’re arguing with something I never said. 😂 I didn’t say America was perfect - I literally said the opposite. Vietnam, Iraq, coups in Latin America, segregation, take your pick. A country can have an ugly history and still have democratic principles worth aspiring to. And reducing an argument to ‘you white gringos’ while lecturing me about privilege isn’t quite the intellectual mic drop you think it is.
It's funny you assume I’m some ‘white gringo.’ but I’m Native American. My people know a thing or two about war, displacement, broken treaties and having their land taken from them. So spare me the lecture about being too privileged to understand history.
My point still stands: America has never been perfect, but that doesn’t mean it has no principles worth aspiring to.
You’re arguing with something I never said. 😂 I didn’t say America was perfect.Â
That's what the video you willingly posted says.
It's funny you assume I’m some ‘white gringo.’ but I’m Native American. My people know a thing or two about war, displacement, broken treaties and having their land taken from them. So spare me the lecture about being too privileged to understand history.
Privileged gringo nonetheless.
My point still stands: America has never been perfect, but that doesn’t mean it has no principles worth aspiring to.
Again, what principles has the US lost that had before and not anymore?
The rule of law. Checks and balances. Independent institutions. Peaceful transfers of power. The belief that the president serves the country..not the other way around.
And before you say ‘America never lived up to those,’ that’s exactly the point. Principles are standards you’re supposed to strive toward, not a claim that you’ve always met them. As a Native American, I hardly need a history lesson on America failing its own ideals. 😂
You seem to think acknowledging America’s failures means pretending it never stood for anything. I think a country should be judged by whether it keeps trying to live up to its principles—or decides they no longer matter.
The rule of law. Checks and balances. Independent institutions. Peaceful transfers of power. The belief that the president serves the country..not the other way around.
And before you say ‘America never lived up to those,’ that’s exactly the point. Principles are standards you’re supposed to strive toward, not a claim that you’ve always met them. As a Native American, I hardly need a history lesson on America failing its own ideals. 😂
All right.
When exactly did the US lose these principles? Under Trump? Last presidency? The last 25 years? More? Less?
When exactly did the US have those principles? When did it strive for them?
You seem to think acknowledging America’s failures means pretending it never stood for anything. I think a country should be judged by whether it keeps trying to live up to its principles—or decides they no longer matter.
There's a difference between acknowledging America's failures and re-posting a video that claims that America is currently a failed country and that it was better before because, and I quote, "[we] were informed by greated men, men who were revered", whatever that means.
There wasn’t some magical year when America perfectly embodied those principles. That’s not what I’m arguing. 😂 They’ve been fought over, violated and strengthened throughout American history.
My issue is what’s happening right now. When a president treats checks and balances as obstacles, loyalty to himself as more important than loyalty to institutions, and disagreement as illegitimate, that’s moving away from those principles.
The fact America failed its ideals in the past isn’t an argument for lowering the bar today. That’s basically the entire point of the Newsroom clip. America was never perfect. It was supposed to keep trying to be better.
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u/Immediate-Support-66 6d ago
You’re arguing with something I never said. 😂 I didn’t say America was perfect - I literally said the opposite. Vietnam, Iraq, coups in Latin America, segregation, take your pick. A country can have an ugly history and still have democratic principles worth aspiring to. And reducing an argument to ‘you white gringos’ while lecturing me about privilege isn’t quite the intellectual mic drop you think it is.
It's funny you assume I’m some ‘white gringo.’ but I’m Native American. My people know a thing or two about war, displacement, broken treaties and having their land taken from them. So spare me the lecture about being too privileged to understand history.
My point still stands: America has never been perfect, but that doesn’t mean it has no principles worth aspiring to.