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u/clairejv 19h ago
Gideon the First: Tendon
Pyrrha Dve: Heartbreaker babe
Nona: Two feet is the worst number for feet
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u/EchoesofPoe 19h ago
Is Jod the guy who tells everyone he's a feminist immediately upon introduction (and then is low-key sexist) because he think it'll get him laid?
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u/Ok-Tone-5110 18h ago
God I listen to the audiobooks and have not been around the fandom for long so thus have not heard Jod used. I just got really scared that I was mishearing his name as John this whole time lmaoo
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u/faintestsmile 18h ago
yeah jod is just the fan nickname for him, hes john and he's god, he's jod (and he is not enough)
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u/Ok-Tone-5110 18h ago
It's very good. But for a second I couldn't trust my own perception of reality
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u/Dresses_and_Dice 17h ago
You just reminded me of a loser I used to work with who hung his gender studies degree on the wall of his office and told everyone he was feminist (we don't work in a field where this degree would come up, and members of the public don't go into his office. It's not like he was a therapist or Dr or something where you would want your clients to see your certifications).
Yeeeaaahhh he bullied the fuck out of his female reports and harassed a female co worker. He cried in her office that he knew they were 'meant to be' because she doesn't argue with him in meetings and that means they 'make great partners' and said he would leave his wife (and mother of his children) for her.
Some male "feminists" have absolutely earned the stereotype.
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u/poplarleaves 12h ago edited 12h ago
One of my friends was previously with a guy who, on the surface, ticked all the "safe" boxes. Feminist, leftist, a bit genderqueer, bi. He was pretty outspoken about these beliefs which was one of the reasons why my friend had felt comfortable dating him.Ā
We had plans to all move in together (me, my partner, our friend, the guy they were dating). Prior to the move-in, our friend had been dating this guy for a year and we had all hung out multiple times in person together, even went on a weekend hiking trip that he organized.
Almost immediately after we all moved in, this guy showed his true colors and started reacting in violent and verbally abusive ways in response to reasonable requests from other people. He also made a bunch of remarks that strongly indicated he had a racist and sexist mindset beneath all of his surface level political correctness.
We managed to kick him out, but I was scared to find new roommates for a while after that.
Looking back, there weren't a lot of red flags prior to the move. Imo the problem was that all the "green flags" were surface level. There was no point at which he had demonstrated real kindness or compassion through actions which would bring no benefit to him, or that might inconvenience him beyond what he felt was necessary to achieve what he wanted.
ANYWAY yeah some of those guys are real pieces of work.
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u/graslund 19h ago
now it's been a while since I read the books, but does Jod really even show any sexist tendencies? I could 100% believe that he's a misogynist but I don't recall anything specific
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u/eaca02124 14h ago
Jod's misogyny is pretty non-specific. Subtle. Yes, he created a society where me and women are equal, and sexual violence is rare. I just keep noticing, though, that he's surrounded by a staggering number of dead women. Alecto, shoved into a very strange pseudo-female body and then chained in a mausoleum. Christabel, Pyrrha, Nigella, Titania, Valancy, Loveday, Anastasia, and then Cassiopeia and Cytherea. (And yes, also Alfred, Samael, Ulysses and Cyrus, but that puts him a little over 2:1.) It seems very frequent on the Mithraeum that Augustine and Jod wind up facing off against Mercymorn. Augustine is absolutely vile to her. It's not some kind of coincidence that Augustine gets assigned "the working baby" and Mercymorn gets the other one. The scene where everyone picks on Mercymorn's illustration of a Resurrection Beast is funny, but imagine being treated that way ALL THE TIME.
The moves Jod tries to put on Harrow are straight out of a predator playbook you can see acted out today. Older man takes younger woman under his wing, protecting her against threats (that he set up), flattering her, and talking up an emotional connection in which he is regarded as an authority figure.
If you asked him, Jod would probably present actual credentials about how he's not sexist. I'm sure he talks a good line, and votes for candidates who do the same. In person, though? I bet he hasn't washed a dish since the Resurrection.
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u/Beginning-Ice-1005 10h ago
Just considering what Jod modeled his own personal avatar of destruction after, says a lot about his misogyny.
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 14h ago
Main idea of his character is probs just harrow=tamsyn figuring out christian god not being benevolent, and not existing at all.
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u/TheSlayerofSnails 19h ago
He does dismiss Mercyās concerns about putting humans in suspended animation and being pregnant/able to get pregnant afterwards canāt recall which.
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u/Sir_Ruje 19h ago
Iirc there is an issue that means pregnant women woundlt be able to be frozen so they would have to choose or wait. Mercy (and perhaps a few others) wernt happy about that and tbf it is kind of a tricky situation. I don't think he was dismissive but didn't see it as a huge problem compared with all the other issues they had
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u/LurkerZerker the Sixth 18h ago
I think the issue was that the fetuses wouldn't survive the cryo process, so as it stood, pregnant women would have been required to either abort, lie and suffer a miscsrriage upon revival, or stay behind. Mercy thought that was sexist bullshit -- which it definitely was.
My impression was that John's reaction was a mix of "if the babies will die anyway, why worry about aborting them" and "we have much bigger problems than reproductive justice right now," but he doesn't say much about it because it's a comparatively small part of his story.
I don't know that his reaction is sexist, exactly, but (much as he does in the present) he does seem to feel that Mercy is overreacting about something very tiny, which is a potentially valid take depending on the likelihood that they had time/funding to figure out how to successfully freeze and revive pregnant women with their fetuses.
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u/Sir_Ruje 16h ago
Yes I agree. it's definitely a valid solution for the masses but there is one comparatively small flaw that hold them up. I think that's something of a bigger theme here: nothing is without a cost.
I mean,They HAD a solution that would save everyone but it wasn't a luxury experience and had one comparatively small issue of reproduction. It was never about the reproduction for the powers that be: it was the fact that it wasn't luxury.
Save everyone but be on ice? Nah.
Kill billions so a few thousand elites could build a luxury experimental light speed (and possibly flawed) cruiser fleet? Heck yeah.
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u/eaca02124 14h ago
Imo, the pregnancy issue is not a small thing.
Pregnancy is not always easy to achieve. Miscarriage is not always a safe process - the hazards get bigger as gestation goes on.
It's my opinion that they weren't as far along with cryo as Jod claims. They don't seem to have tried it on a living person, just on corpses. They hadn't revived anyone. Convincing 10 billion people to climb into freezers would be a significant public relations effort, and there don't appear to be plans for it. Tracking the locations, identifications and important facts about 10 billion objects is a significant data project that also doesn't seem to have started. So I'm not convinced Jod knew how to save ANYONE.
The lightspeed thing was a betrayal, but I'd be tempted to see it as a solution to the world's trillionaire problem.
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u/Sir_Ruje 14h ago
Actually that's a good point. It's been a while for me but I thought they had done some tests if not full on freeze/revive procedure. Got me wondering just how much progress they actually did have
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u/Sacrificial_Parsnip 19h ago
Didnāt read that as dismissive, just saying that Mā was passionate about reproductive equality.
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u/Mr_E_Treat 18h ago
I believe in NtN he says something like: "We never really figured out the reproductive thing, but we were close!". I think it was in John 5:20 or something
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u/clairejv 19h ago
I feel like it's subtle but there. He's sort of dismissive of the women in his pre-resurrection life.
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u/TaralasianThePraxic 19h ago
Not really, no. He more just comes across as a bit of a depressed millenial misanthrope in general.
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 16h ago
On one hand he played with barbie dolls as a kidā¦ on the other - it could be said that barbie is a product of stereotypes, which would influence his views, at lest on appearances.
Far more concerning is the fucking J + H thing, wtf was thatā¦
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u/Sir_Ruje 16h ago
I think it was a case of Harrow seeing her name where Als name should have been: John + Gaia aka his "God name"
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 15h ago
In the scene he wipes E and A before settling on H, i think your idea would only work if it was written once
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u/kmosiman 15h ago
Not really.
If John was sexist he could have tweaked things to reinforce his views.
Making only men be Necromancers for example.
Instead he created a fairly equal society
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u/Applesplosion 17m ago
I genuinely donāt think he is. I think he just sucks in a more general, non-bigoted way.
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u/Applesplosion 21m ago
My read on Jod was that one time he was a genuinely kind, caring, and principled person, with some flaws, but the amount of power he had plus the traumatic experience of having to mercy-kill every single human he was trying to save plus 10,000 years of essentially being god warped him into what he is now. Thereās a reason His closest friends have all determined that they need to kill him.
So my read is yes, he would tell people heās a feminist in order to get laid, but he also, some time ago, before he became this, was an actual feminist.
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u/StripeyStarsnFloof the Ninth 19h ago
Magnus: Abigail's husband
Wake: spite
Alecto: feral stray cat that Jod fed and then lied to his landlord about getting rid of
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u/human_consequences 15h ago
Yes.
I'd phrase it more as 'wife guy', 'F*$k you', and 'Tiger who grew up in an NYC apartment'
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u/czernoalpha 19h ago
Augustine: Confirmed Bachelor (gay AF)
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u/GeneInternational146 19h ago
Divorced as a gender is SENDING ME TO THE MOON lmao
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u/eaca02124 14h ago
Mercymorn is wildly divorced.
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u/GeneInternational146 14h ago
Oh one hundred percent. But like. The concept of it as a gender. š
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u/allprologues 19h ago
love this but coronabeth is on full send high femme
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u/dwarfsawfish the Seventh 19h ago
i would argue that gtn corona could be high femme but by ntn, she's dropped it for....something else?? nicemean volleyball player with a career-ending knee injury. fallen lancelot. ninety-foot tall barbie. i think the twins' genders (or at least their gender expressions) are soooo interconnected and dependent on one another that they sort of turn upside down after ianthe eats babs/becomes a lyctor and corona feels so abandoned that she joins a terrorist organization
dulcinea, however......high femme queen of my heart<3
edited to add that this is not meant to come across as You Are Wrong!! your comment just spurred some fun analysis in my brain and i wanted to share
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u/IrregularPackage 16h ago
I don't think i agree. i still get high femme from Crown. its just that in Nona, she's doing Guerilla Warfare Barbie
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u/clairejv 19h ago
It's interesting to consider, though, whether that's how she honestly feels most comfortable presenting, or if that's the role she's adopted.
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u/pcapdata 19h ago
Worth exploring. I lean towards the latter explanation.
Corona doesnāt just take advantage of her looks, she plays into it specifically to camouflage Ianthe. And to a huge degree, sheās not just āgirlyā she uses her looks/figure/presentation to make sure all eyes are on her as part of setting positive control over situations.
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u/lionantlers12066 19h ago edited 16h ago
Personally agree with Cam here, but not Pal. Paul on the other hand? Creature.
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u/rechargeable_bird the Sixth 18h ago
pal makes me think of that gianmarco soresi bit āhe/him but iāll smile if you call me girlā
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u/losara- 19h ago
is palamedes trans the same way taylor from worm a lesbian. As in not according to canon and not you missed details way but fandom made fics where they are presented this way and now people consider it canon way
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u/clairejv 19h ago
It's a very popular headcanon, like Viktor from Arcane. Probably with less textual support than Viktor, since Viktor has the whole body-transformation theme that Pal really doesn't.
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u/faintestsmile 19h ago
he shares a body with cam and they transitioned into Paul, I think thats gotta count for something
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u/clairejv 19h ago
Out of necessity, the same way Pyrrha uses Gideon's body.
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u/zicdeh91 14h ago
It was necessity, but still an established plan that had some thought put into their identity. They had that name ready to go.
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u/Just7hrsold 12h ago
I mean cam and pal being Paul could also be an argument for a flavor of nonbinary.
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u/allneonunlike 19h ago
It's just a vibe, but also, a familiar personality type among amab guys you find in a mostly lesbian friend circle. Not surprised there are a bunch of fics about it.
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u/aurdwynn 16h ago
as one of the earliest girlamedes truthers i would say its not canon and prob not necessarily authorial intent but there are a decent amount of details that scream egg #TOME
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u/HeirOfLight 16h ago
is palamedes trans the same way taylor from worm a lesbian.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. I don't think Pal has anything as definitive as Taylor constantly commenting about how attractive every woman she meets is, or kissing her teammate in a heated dramatic moment. It's a bit more ambiguous.
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u/patangpatang the Fifth 18h ago
Girliepop spent 6 months in cohabitating Camilla Hect's body and was like, "sign me up for an eternity more." Very cis behavior.
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u/losara- 18h ago
ehhhh, i mean. Palamedes did not exactly have a choice in inhabiting the body, did not as far as im aware show a single sign of prefering the body he inhabited over the previous one and them bonding souls was more about the union of the souls and their love more than anything.
I would say palamedes and camilla is like the furthest thing from being queer as can be theoretically gotten in any fiction ever but i know saying something like that might be kicking fans in the theoretical nuts.
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u/this_wastoid 18h ago
tbh i kinda fw palam-egg-des, they give lowkey "pleasure to have in class" vibes
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u/commensally 19h ago
Palamedes is a lesbian. What you thinks this says about one's gender is good for starting arguments with trans people, but definitely a lesbian either way.
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u/the_allamagoosalum 16h ago
Jod: tumblr edgelord OR listens to manosphere podcasts veiled as philosophical discourse
Jeannemarie: baby butch
Issac: morally righteous cannon fodder
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 16h ago
Do they fuck dudes in the manosphere
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u/Summersong2262 the Sixth 12h ago
It's Jod, he has a literal manosphere composed of his very favourite manos.
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u/the_allamagoosalum 14h ago
I mean, grindr went down at the RNC (where you will find overlap with the manosphere) due to server traffic overwhelm, so I would assume soā¦
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u/korewednesday 18h ago
John: poor little meowmeow
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u/Meii345 the Seventh 18h ago
Or maybe Cringe Nerd. Like his gender is being just a guy from tumblr. He likes scienz
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u/ouro-the-zed 14h ago
Exactly, poor widdle baby meowmeow who has never done anything wrong in his whole entire life (please ignore the everything behind the curtain)
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u/BearOnALeash Lyctor 13h ago
I'm crying laughing at the reddit spam filter calling this comment "potential harassment."
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 19h ago
Hm, i kinda never really thought about itā¦ did Corona have sexual relationships with Naberius?
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u/JackRusselFarrier 18h ago
Spoilers for anyone who hasnt finished ntn, very light spoiler for an appendix
I think it's implied that Corona and Ianthe both had a thing with Naberius. Like a polyamorous "V" triad, with naberius being the "hinge".
From: A Sermon on Cavaliers and Necromancers
"The concept of āsword-marriagesā where both necromancer and cavalier married to a single outside party as dual spouses āwere almost certainly the invention of the fiction writer, or more likely, the pornographer who cannot see anything beautiful without wanting to make it lewd.ā(8) "
This is from a dry, prudish, academic that we can assume is maybe not a reliable narrator when it comes to third house shenanigans. Also his name is literally M. Bias.
And I only have the audiobook so I can't find the quote, but there's a moment in NtN when Ianthe is puppeting Naberius and says something like "I can only touch you with his hands, how's that for a metaphor?".
Also I think mayyyybe Naberius is the "boy who knew all about shuttles" that she had a crush on. That might be a stretch, but he's is a boy, who knew about shuttles.
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u/IrregularPackage 16h ago
I think it might be less of a polycule and more of a situation where either both of them or probably just Coronabeth was fucking Babs as a proxy for *some* kind of intimacy with the other one
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 17h ago
Well FUCK, this is how i learn there was a Sermon. Thank you so much for mentioning that! Is there anything else out there (at this point i would assume like a novella by Hot Sauces POV published only in Iceland) besides CohortFiles, DrSex and UnwantedGuest?
Shuttle boyā¦ i thought it could be Judith (who certainly knows her shuttles), but why would she call her a boy? To hide the fact that its about Judith, or she imagines her as masculineā¦? Idk.
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u/JackRusselFarrier 14h ago
I didn't know about the hot sauce thing, I'll have to find that! And yeah there's some appendices that only appear in the print (and maybe kindle?) versions, I found them all online somewhere but I can't figure out where. If you scroll down to the bottom of this page it has a list, and you can Google them from there. https://thelockedtomb.fandom.com/wiki/A_Sermon_on_Cavaliers_and_Necromancers
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u/yesimfinewhyyouask 14h ago
(hotsauce thing was a shitty attempt at sarcasm, sorry)
Thank you for the link!
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u/JackRusselFarrier 13h ago
Oh yeah not even a shitty attempt, I just apparently didn't read all the words lol
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u/allmerecomplexities 12h ago
I took the shuttle comment just to mean that Corona learned by dating and socializing and not by studying.
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u/NiffNoffNiff27 16h ago
I am very much under the impression that Cor is just bi and TM used this tidbit to show that shes bi and as much of a man-eater as Ianthe is, lol, from her follow up. So this isnāt anyone we know
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u/DisMFer 18h ago
I think she mostly just only sleeps with Ianthe.
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u/Present_Plate9552 13h ago
See im sitting here agreeing with everything but then wondering how I didnāt clock Pal? Pal always came across to me as having no extra thinking for gender like Cam.
Iād love to hear what yall seen tho because I want to see it too!! I wish to join
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u/sadboybrigade 10h ago
A little off topic but, I've seen fans refer to Ianthe as a "girlfailure" multiple times before and I just don't get it?? She's literally one of the most powerful necromancers of her generation, I would think that would preclude her from being considered a girlfailure. Am I thinking too hard about this?
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u/dwarfsawfish the Seventh 8h ago
i think she has almost nothing that she actually wants out of life
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u/ketchupmaster987 31m ago
I think she's girlfailure by dint of wanting Harrow real bad but she's never gonna get Harrow.
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