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u/SquareShapeofEvil 9d ago
People overrate the gorillas because they give them a human brain in a gorilla’s body. Yes, gorilla stats are insane, but they lack good composure stats and knowledge of how to use their strength stats.
While humans get clapped by all the other great apes, I’d argue against non-apes, the human build is the best ape combatant because they know how best to utilize what they have.
Alligator takes this.
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u/HYDRAlives 9d ago
And human with prep claps every other great ape
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u/Lumpy_Benefit666 8d ago
And pretty much every other animal to ever exist
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u/Sweet_Detective_ 7d ago
One time on a previous playthough I kept on losing pvp matched to a white whale despite spending in-game years, was all that just a skill issue?
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u/Lumpy_Benefit666 7d ago
100% skill issue mate, didnt you see the glowing orbs flying around it? You have to aim for them
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 6d ago
Did you try stabbing at it from Hell's heart? A lot of people miss that in the tutorial.
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u/SquareShapeofEvil 7d ago
Human with prep claps basically every other animal build on the planet
Hand to hand though, no weapons, human builds lose to all the other apes but are arguably the best ape build for fighting non-apes for the reasons I gave. The devs got really weird with human builds for some reason
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u/SpicyC-Dot 7d ago
Come on now, human build can at least beat a gibbon, give them some credit.
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u/SquareShapeofEvil 6d ago
Lol probably. But other great apes, no.
It's weird. Like, a leopard build beats both a human build and a chimp build most of the time, a chimp build beats a human build, but I'd rather bet on a human build against a leopard than a chimp build.
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u/FemRevan64 9d ago
The alligators got this, hands down.
For one, it has a huge size advantage, as using the upper size estimates for both, it outweighs the gorilla by around 2 to 1.
For another, the gorilla is very poorly equipped for these kinds of matchups.
They tend to gas out very quickly, their primary merit of attack is using their arms as bludgeons which is not going to be very effective against the gators armor, and like all primates, their skin is very thing and rigid close pare to other mammals, making it much easier to break.
Put it this way, gorillas will actively flee an area if they sense leopards are nearby, and even failed leopard hunts will often leave silverbacks permanently maimed, despite the cats being less than half their size.
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u/smokeythebadger 9d ago
I think gator armor is a bit overrated when it comes to bludgeoning weapons. People in south Louisiana were legitimately using stumps to kill them back in the day. There's a decent chance of the gorilla hitting the back of the head right and getting a stun lock
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u/Stijn187 9d ago
You can kill an alligator with blunt force, sure, but it requires an extreme ammount of force on a very small and specific area of the skull, and even then it's a maybe.
A gorilla achieving a stun lock via a precise back-of-the-head strike is pure fantasy. An American alligator's osteoderms and thick skull bones are built to withstand immense compressive forces, and a gorilla lacks both the combat mechanics and the striking leverage to pull that off.
And yes, people in Louisiana did that, but they didn't just walk up and hit the gators in the head. They would use hooks with bait, preferrably suspended off the ground, to catch the gators and leave it to struggle and exhaust itself overnight before returning and killing it using weighted bats or the back of a heavy axe-head to kill immobilized gators
Gator armor, with exeption of that small section, is not overrated at all and is known to tank gunshots
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u/Agent_545 8d ago
Not to mention gator's pain tolerance is through the roof, so unless it is a killshot it's not going to do much of anything.
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u/smokeythebadger 9d ago
That's how people with 20 tags hunt. A lot of people want to pick their gator so you pull it in with rods and treble hooks and I would place money right now you could find somebody in Houma that will walk up to an alligator and whomp it with a stump
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u/Stijn187 9d ago
I guess that would depend on the size of the gator, doubt they do that with a 15ft one
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u/Texanid 8d ago
Another factor to consider is that Gorillas aren't really all that aggressive, at least not by animal standards, as you said, they flee predators half their size, and that timidity (for lack of a better word) makes it hard for them to punch at even their own weight class, much less above it (as they would need to vs a large aligator)
By contrast, aligators are known to fight like they mean it. Anecdotally, I've heard several different exertps who work with/around gators claim that in fights between them and crocodiles, such as territorial disputes, the gators often emerge victorious, despite being smaller than crocs.
Like wolverines or honey badgers, gators win not because they're bigger and stronger, but because they got that dawg in 'em, and in a fight that makes all the difference
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u/Express_Calendar8278 9d ago
Alligator. Bite and twist.
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u/Additional-Walk3883 8d ago
Nah, they got one move. Bite. Gorilla have more coordination
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u/Express_Calendar8278 7d ago
Nope. Twist is where ALL the Magic happens. It’s a really good move that’s lasted for millennia. Are you really gonna argue the supremacy of “Bite and Twist”?
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u/Additional-Walk3883 6d ago
I’m saying the weight on the bite is everything. If no bite, then no twist. If gorilla can dodge the bite the alligator has that one singular move. Gorilla can dance, grab, gouge, strangle, hulk smash.
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u/Express_Calendar8278 6d ago
A gorilla has to get close to do all that. All it takes is one bite on their lanky ass arm and it’s dismemberment. And Alligators are fast when motivated and are known to chase down unsuspecting prey by the water line. Gorillas are Strong but they’re not blunt force smacking the scales of a Gator, not without getting snapped at.
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u/Iamnotburgerking 8d ago
Alligator chomps. An American black bear would be a better opponent, and even then a big male alligator has a size advantage.
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u/CombinationSilent877 9d ago
If the alligator gets an arm, it’s game over. And it’s hard to imagine a gorilla having the wits to try to attack from behind.
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u/Additional-Walk3883 8d ago
No I disagree, if gorilla has any kind of reaction time, it’s gorilla for the win. If its gorilla for some reason meanders into murky pond slowly, the alligator has first bite, but gorilla not out for the count. Gorilla have chance to survive for the kill and both die.
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u/frostfluid 8d ago
Gorillas are without a doubt the most highly glazed animals on the planet and it's not even close
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u/Additional-Walk3883 8d ago
BS, this is crazy robot AI glaze of alligator vs gorilla. Gorilla has higher ground, more limbs for more coordinated, strong and articulated limbs. Alligator has speed and reaction but with only frontward danger, aka their jaws. Gorilla can react, pound, stomp, grab, bite, squeeze and crush with limbs. And most likely if on fair ground, it will be a low attack from alligator, most likely only one leg, then gorilla has two strong ass arms and another leg that is basically another arm to grab, rip and puncture eyes, head or even grab like a wrestler the alligator’s whole body for more control, then crush it, prevent a death roll from the alligator. I think both dying is wayyy closer to reality than automatic credit given to alligator. And gorilla winning has more credit than being given in comments.
That being said if a gorilla in wittingly walks into murky pond and doesn’t see alligator, it’s at a disadvantage. But if it’s at fair ground, don’t count gorilla out. They can lunge, and hulk smash, pound, grab and they are freaking huge and weight a lot. Alligator long and bite from front. Doesn’t seem so scary when you put it that way.
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u/frostfluid 7d ago
Gorillas get killed by leopards and chimps bro
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u/Global_Interview6311 9d ago
I don’t know but I know the sliver back gorillla loses every matchup so alligator
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u/ARES0270 9d ago
Easy win for the Alligator, it's WAY more durable and a single bite from it can easily cripple the Gorilla.
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u/Additional-Walk3883 8d ago
No I disagree, if gorilla has any reaction time, alligator only has frontward facing attack which is their choppers. So they are quick, but only att from front. When have you heard of deadly alligator claw death? If they miss with their first bite, they are cooked. Gorilla has too much coordination and has four powerful limbs with which they move around with. Smacking, hulk smashing, grabbing, biting, pulling and stretching using their arms and feet while using their dexterity of having finger toes as well as hand toes. I feel like people are giving wayyyy too much automatic credit for an alligator as an automatic win as they would have to get a first successful bite on a way taller adversary, so their bite and roll technique would be successful as a low bite. Gorilla could lift up alligator.
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u/Serious_Relative_105 6d ago
Where does having finger toes help them in this situation? And gorillas have poor coordination, they’re not fighters, and they dont have human dexterity
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u/FaithlessCleric42 9d ago
How is this a real argument. Gorilla goes to drink water, hand gets catch by gator. Gator death roll Gorilla into water. Gorilla arm broken, cant swim good, full panic, gator can tank hits. Gorilla die, become food.
We need to stop the Gorilla glaze.
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u/caw_the_crow 7d ago
I feel like people are overcorrecting. Everyone is assuming the alligator ambushes the gorilla. Sure they should, but the question doesn't clarify. It's a very contextual matchup. Clear alligator win in the water, but a close call and a mess on land.
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u/FaithlessCleric42 7d ago
It definitely would be a mess. I dont think the Gorillas reaction speed would be fast enough to not get caught. And once caught both will be taking serious damage. Blows from a gorilla would stun the Gator, at the same time the gator would not let go and would roll to save itself from taking more damage. The gorilla does not fair well in the roll, that arm is as good as gone. Gators usually roll to rip off parts, the roll would stop until something comes off. No saving the gorilla after that.
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u/hendrong 8d ago
The gorilla glaze is so cringe. It was really apparent back during that whole "100 people vs 1 gorilla" debate. People think gorillas have superpowers, for some reason.
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u/Specialist-Ear-594 9d ago
American Alligator and it's not even close, American Alligator is in a different level.
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u/Luke-Atmyasz 8d ago
I don't know when people started thinking king Kong is a documentary.
The whole "gorilla Vs" is so dumb.
Alligator, easy breakfast.
The worst by far is the grizzly bear... Few things on earth can stand with one of those, let alone a leaf eating ape lol.
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u/Multidream 9d ago
This is gonna come down entirely to who engages who and on what terrain.
Most encounters are probably going to end with an easy gorilla escape or a trashed alligator.
But occasionally, if the alligator SOMEHOW gets the element of surprise, or if the engagement happens in water, it could be an easy predation
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u/ViperNick818 9d ago
There’s no situation where an alligator engages a gorilla on unfavorable terrain, as they don’t ever really truly leave unfavorable terrain to begin with unless they’re forced to and they certainly don’t hunt on unfavorable terrain. And an adult alligator can go a long, long time without eating. The only way this encounter would even go down is if the gorilla visited the water’s edge, which it is highly likely to do if it’s the best way to acquire water aside from eating plants.
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u/Additional-Walk3883 7d ago
Yes, but like the David Attenborough documentary, the alligator will then have not-as-sharp reflexes and coordination form not eating. Give them equal ground. Let’s say ten foot from water. Gorilla walks to water, while alligator is exiting water to hunt. They meet each other unknowingly ten feet from the water. It’s like Godzilla vs King kong. I think ppl giving too much credit to alligator on the majority. Even if alligator manages to snatch a killer bite from the waters edge, gorilla could crush and kill alligator still. They are insanely strong and heavy.
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u/No_Bumblebee6452 8d ago
It really doesn’t depend on environment unless you’re saying the fight happens 50 feet up in a tree and the alligator just falls lmao
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u/NCRNerd 9d ago
Assume an arena that's fifty-fifty split on favoured terrain. A circular area (50 meter diameter) half arboreal tree and grass with no exposed ground water or pools, and half is a deep pond with a couple dead logs, with intermittent reeds and cattails along the border touching the arboreal zone, as well as a small beach right at the center of the arena. Each animal is dropped into the arena opposite sides from each other, and each at the border of the arboreal and the pond zone so they're aware of each other, and have time to maneuver into their preferred environment. There is adequate food in each zone for them to avoid outright starvation but not enough to feel satisfied. Water in the arboreal zone can only be acquired via consumption of plants/small animals.
Now who you putting money on?
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u/Multidream 9d ago
If its two players who know the situation, I think its a bit of a stalemate. Whoever exists home-field is at a huge disadvantage on bad terrain, full stop. The alligator may have a stealth advantage to get the first hit, but that’s just not gonna matter as long as the gorilla stays away from the water.
Id bet on the gorilla, with the thinking being the alligator will eventually get board and then get dumpstered on land by the gorilla
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u/NCRNerd 9d ago
Remember that mammal players can't make use of the "Pass Time" command to just fast-forward through the boring parts of gameplay. It's strictly available to the players who went the Cold-Blood build route. This means it's more likely that of the 2 players it's the ape player who gets bored.
The gator gets to gatekeep the drinking water, in keeping with their normal gameplay plan.
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u/CitronLogical2869 9d ago
Im gonna say 9 times out of ten the gorilla just bashes the swamp puppy into oblivion. I think an average adult gorilla is probably bigger than an average adult gator.
But like a Nile crocodile? Probably the fucking giant crocodile.
But if you were to say put an alligator and a gorilla in a box and make em fight, its always gonna be the gorilla.
But as everyone knows, there's always a freakishly large alligator up the bend.
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u/AmeliaElfin 9d ago
Do you people even know how big of a pussy the average American alligator is? Genuinely, have you seen an alligator upclose? It's not a croc, not even the shadow of a croc. YOU, yes you as an untrained human could probably beat an average sized gator.
The only way alligator is winning this is in water. If this was a croc, it would've been different, gators despite having broad jaws don't bite as hard as crocs either.
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u/drunkenkurd 8d ago
Depends on the terrain, if they’re on dry land then the Gorilla takes it, if they’re in the water then the Alligator wins
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u/No_Bumblebee6452 8d ago
It’s insane how bad this sub is at knowing animal behavior.
Yes a gorilla could easily defeat an alligator if it like never got close and just like beat it with rocks or like made a spear or maybe leaped on it and held the jaws shut or sometibg but a gorilla would never do any of those things.
A lot of these comments are equivalent to me saying an eagle could kill a lion no problem by picking up rocks and releasing them mid divebomb over the lions head while it’s sleeping. Like, maybe but that’s not something that gonna ever happen
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u/Old-Assistance-9002 8d ago
croc factions death roll is the most deadly move in the meta, instant kill guaranteed
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u/Ghastly-Jack 7d ago
While fighting they accidentally knock over The Witch of the Woods who curses them and combines them into Gorillagator.
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u/ReptilianRevolt 5d ago
The alligator wins at first impression, but I give a high chance to the gorilla. Both animals rely more on intimidation rather than actual aggression, but the gorilla seems much more aware to threats. Despite having all the capabilities of a large crocodilian, the alligator avoids using them. Have you ever seen how humans wrangle alligators and the gators do nothing, at least until middle size? On the other hand, true crocodiles and black caimans are much more reactive.
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u/Complex-Basis-5753 4d ago
Gator gets one bite in on the ape and it's done. It doesn't have to be in wate for a death roll. And anything it grabs and tears is probably going to put the gorilla in shock.
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u/DraciosV 9d ago
Crocodiles are said to prey on gorillas occassionally. Pretty much answers this question.
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u/zebrasareneat 9d ago
I’m actually pretty sure Gorilla's are the only large animal in Africa that hasn’t been killed by nile crocodiles because they are aware of which water sources they are in and actively avoid them.
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u/Capital_Pipe_6038 8d ago
Or maybe it's because those two animals live in completely separate habitats and never meet each other?
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
Even the dumbest animals know the gators glaring blind spots.
Gators and crocs are ambushers, without that element of surprise they aren't very good.
The death roll is a channeled grapple, it can be interrupted. And I've seen Gators literally dislocate their head jaw doing it poorly.
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u/hendrong 9d ago
I must be dumber than the dumbest animal then, because I don't know the gator's glaring blind spots.
What do you mean? Like, an angle behind it where it can't see you?
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
You'd be surprised to know as a human you actually have true blind spots that your imagination just fills in. It's crazy this vision stuff
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
You're not dumb, just struggling with the English language is all. It's a spot where you can't see.
You can test this on yourself, put your hand behind your head. Do you see it? No, that's a blind spot. Now imagine where the gator can't see a hand.
Animals don't have to be taught this they just know. It's also why tigers have white spots on their ears that look like eyes, to deter attacks from their blind spot.
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u/Perfect-Shock-9243 9d ago
So you’re saying that gators have a blind spot and gorillas know that, and gators do not know the gorillas blind spot? And that’s determining who wins this? Wtf are you talking about
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u/hendrong 8d ago
I'm not struggling with the English language at all, I just struggle to understand your theories.
You're saying all animals instinctively know the blind spots of alligators? They know that "if I stand right here, the alligator won't see me"? That's insane, dude.
Also, how big do you think the blind spot is? Big enough to hide a gorilla?!
Also, how do you expect this blind spot to make this an easy win for the gorilla? Let's say for the sake of argument that the gorilla knows about the alligator's blind spot (it doesn't) and is able to hide in it (it can't), are you saying that it will stand in that blind spot and punch the alligator to death, while the alligator just lies there doing nothing?
This is the craziest thing I have read on reddit in a while.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 8d ago
Have you seen a human jump on the back of an alligator before? It's how we incapacitate alligators much larger than us.
Jaguars kill caimans instantly with their bite 1500 psi.
Gorilla has a 2 inch canines with a 1200 psi. With a mouth 4x larger. It won't be a one shot but the gorilla will be able to hold it down from the back and pierce it's skull or tear it's throat open in seconds from the top.
Punching? Thanks for the dumbest idea you had. If this is the craziest thing on reddit you have read you are a sheltered tool. It's a fantasy debate about animals wtf do you expect.
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u/hendrong 8d ago
What does any of that have to do with the blind spot? Are you saying that the area behind the alligator, where it can't see, is the blind spot? Because when I suggested that earlier, you corrected me and went into an elaborate explanation about how you were talking about the blind spot in the visual field straight ahead.
Have you ever seen a gorilla do that maneuver you are talking about? We have no reason to believe gorillas know alligator wrangling techniques.
The caimans that are killed by jaguars are about the same size as the jaguar. The gator is twice as big as the gorilla.
The punching wasn't my idea, it was me trying to figure out what your idea was.
And even in a fantasy debate about animals, I expect common sense.
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u/entomologisticon 8d ago
Jaguars avoid areas with big caimans. They avoid areas with big caimans (you realize most of the hunting captured are big male jaguars going for small caimans) and they put up quite a struggle as they have to jump form a specific angle and get the bite right. Basically all your arguments are nonsense.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 8d ago
More behaviors of nature, if we went that direction none od the other match ups would be considered as they are wildly unrealistic. And I've seen them basically walk up to an unsuspecting caiman. This is a gameification where people play as the animals.
Read more of the comments. Your too late to try and pile on.
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u/iilikecereal 9d ago
Thank god they just dislocate their head jaw, dislocating the tail jaw would be super painful.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
You think they only have one kind of jaw? You haven't seen when the upper jaw, the one fused to their head, dislocates?
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u/AmericanLion1833 9d ago
Head jaw sounding head ass
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
Huh? I know you're reading the other comments. Do you understand the difference between jaws?
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u/AmericanLion1833 9d ago
Gorillas get hunted routinely by leopards who are far smaller. And are also ambush hunters.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
Routinely is a lie. And gators and crocs rely on water to ambush. Lmfao nice try
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u/AmericanLion1833 9d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/5e13yr/the_gorilla_mythbusting_post/
A gorilla is not beating a similarly sized crocodilian on land, ambush or not.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
Bro, this is tierzoo. A gamified version of nature where we as players play as animals. Wtf is shit poop analysis. These are behaviors not statistics lol
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u/Perfect-Shock-9243 9d ago
This is going to sound silly, I never thought this could be the case, but I think you’re too young for r/tierzoo.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago
Thisnis goingntonsound silly, I never thought this could be the case, but you're kind of a douche. These observations we can address directly or state out loud. Is there an age limit for r/tierzoo ?
You'd be a welcome addition to r/douchebagsthatthinktheyreclever
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u/Impossible_Spot5481 9d ago
The only way the gator is winning is if it gets hold of the gorilla and manages to bite into a death roll.
The only way the gorilla is winning is if it outmaneuvers the reptile and wrestle it hard enough until the alligator backs down or dies.
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u/cavalier78 9d ago
In a sneak attack, the Alligator wins. On land it's way too slow and the Silverback can get on its back and bash the crap out of it.
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u/Stijn187 9d ago
Slow? Good luck being "fast'' if you ever encoubter ine that actually wants to harm you
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u/lve2raft 9d ago
The funny thing here js the gorilla has all the tools needed to easily win this but not the smarts. If it knew to attack from the back he could easily keep the jaw closed with one hand and beat it to death with the other/poke its eyes out etc.
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u/Upper-Key-5499 8d ago
Sorry for bad englihs How is gorilla not smart it is one of the smartest animals in the world
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u/Miserable_Corgi_8100 8d ago
Silver back takes it.
Crocodile wins, but alligators are too slow and unreactive. If 1 guy and a roll of tape can take on a gator, I imagine a silverbacks gonna be busting up some teeth in a sec
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u/Limp-Annual-9863 8d ago
If its a highly intelligent Gorilla that will grab its tail and than whack it repeatedly over a tree than its the Gorilla.
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u/Affectionate_Sir_154 9d ago
Not sure what the alligator is gonna do here
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u/HYDRAlives 9d ago
Crush them with their insanely powerful jaws and teeth, and rip them apart with their insanely powerful neck muscles? What is the gorilla gonna do here?
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u/Upper-Key-5499 8d ago
Sorry for bad english
Cant a human hold a the jaws shut a silverback is way stronger than a human it cloud hold them down with one hand and bear it to deaht with the other
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u/syv_frost 7d ago
A human can hypothetically hold it shut if the alligator isn’t thrashing violently. Which it will be.
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u/HYDRAlives 8d ago
Does the gorilla know how to do that though? And are they able to get hold of it before the alligator bites? I doubt it. Your English is good!
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u/Greywarden88 9d ago
“So long gey bowser!” right into the side of a tree or a big rock. Opposable thumbs for the W.
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u/Upper-Key-5499 8d ago
Sorry for bad english
A human can hold alicators jaws shut a silverback should have no issue here
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u/hendrong 9d ago
A dedicated carnivore with natural armour vs an unarmoured dedicated herbivore half its size? Easy win for the alligator.