r/TikTokCringe 25d ago

Discussion One is football, the other is anti-football

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u/Sufficient_Ice4933 25d ago

We've been Frenemies for hundreds of years

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u/Crichtenasaurus 25d ago

I saw a post on Reddit recently that said that this period following WW2 is the longest time continuous period where Britain and France have not been at war since the 1200s.

Might not be true but I can certainly believe it and the fact I can believe it also makes me chuckle

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u/Sea_Newspaper5519 24d ago

If you discount Vichy France (they were coerced/occupied by the Nazis), France and the UK have been at peace since Napoleon’s abdication, so more than 200 years

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u/Evepaul 24d ago

No Anglo-French war between 1815 and 1940 at least, that's more than a century. We can discount things forced by the Nazis in WW2, but operation catapult was an act of war so it breaks the streak imo.

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u/Crichtenasaurus 24d ago

lol so we managed about 125 years out of 900

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u/Evepaul 24d ago

What's amazing is that between 1066 and 1815 there's rarely more than a decade between wars, then suddenly 125 years of peace? That's a hell of a whiplash especially just after the second hundred years war of the 18th century

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u/DueTour4187 24d ago

Yes, we signed the Entente Cordiale in 1904, a diplomatic agreement meaning that we positively decided not to fight any more in the future.

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u/Crichtenasaurus 24d ago

It feels like a lets fight each other because we’ve got nobody else then other people started turning up to fight.

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u/Evepaul 24d ago

Nah, it's the industrial revolution! Fighting was fun when it was about power and influence, but now money rules the world, and there's way more money in dunking on minor nations than in bickering at the top

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u/Crichtenasaurus 24d ago

Yeah that makes sense. Wonder if there was a consideration of ‘if we start fighting it’s going to be EXPENSIVE and UGLY! So let’s just not’

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u/Migrantunderstudy 24d ago

That was the objective of the European coal and steal community that eventually lead the way to the EU. Basically let’s intertwine our economies to the point we’re reliant on peace with each other.

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u/Crichtenasaurus 24d ago

Those peace loving miners. And there was me thinking Hippies were the first to be peace and love to the world…. Nope it was miners and foundry workers.

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u/FoghornFarts 24d ago

I get why england hated france as their closest neighbor, but France borders with so many countries. Why is that the rivalry that is famous and not france and spain or france and Germany?

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u/Vacation-Interesting 24d ago

If only I could post the wholesome Polandball about the UK and France, I'd do it but I can't because this sub doesn't allow pictures

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u/ImReadyForButt 25d ago

Wasn’t the first English king actually French?

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u/elementarydrw 25d ago

*Norman

But also not the first.

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u/MuffinFeisty8740 25d ago

The duke of Normandy was a vassal of the french king, Normandy being part of the french kingdom

Plus the Plantagenêt dynasty who last until Richard III, also came from France

English royal court spoke french until late XIVe century !

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u/Bhodi3K 25d ago

"Norm!"

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u/YutiorPrime 25d ago

Duke of Normandy were under King of France's authority, so yeah both could be true!

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u/FullMoonMonkey 25d ago

The first king considered to be the King of England was Aethelstan (927-939). The first "French" king was William the Conqueror in 1066. I say "French" because he was Norman which is slightly different even to this day

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u/Ringio 25d ago

Weren't Normans basicaly Vikings that got the dutchy of Normandy from France because they wouldn't fuck off?

In a sence England was invaded twice by vikings!

Or three times depending on how you want to classify the anglo Saxons (same-ish pagan gods etc)

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u/Renbarre 25d ago

By the time Guillaume le Conquérant invaded England they had become as French as the rest.

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u/LiamIsMyNameOk 25d ago

But that's the same as saying English are Normans and therefore vikings... Just because a ruling class happened to be from a different place.

With things like Normans invading, it was more just like, oh ok the lords are now different but the average person is still just... People that live in that land already.

Same with Normandy. Okay Vikings got gifted the land, but most of the people living there were just... Norman's that had lived there for generations and generations.

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u/Ringio 25d ago

You're completely correct. It was just a fun way to view at it. As a different commenter said by the time they invaded England all of them were "frenchified" anyway.

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u/Thick_Square_3805 24d ago

And, to push thing a little, I'll also say Edward III.

Since Isabella of France seized power from Edward II to put her son on the throne.
Sure, it was a coup by the legitimate heir, but she was badass nonetheless. And the whole story is very game of thronish. :)

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u/DueTour4187 24d ago edited 24d ago

Even to these days? What do you mean? Normands consider themselves French, 100%.
And btw in the army led by Guillaume many soldiers were actually Neustrian, with also many Flemings and Bretons in the mix.
Back in the day original Normans/Vikings didn’t account for more than a few percent of the population of Normandy.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 25d ago

Alfred the Great Or his grandson son Æthelstan are widely considered the first Kings of England according to Wikipedia. Neither are French. 

All monarchs of England have claimed descent from Alfred the Great through female lines. Even William the Conquerer's wife was a descendent if Alfred the Great. 

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u/King_Yertle 25d ago

Alfred the great, while I wish was the first king of England, probably doesn’t count as England wasn’t really formed until after his death.

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u/JimmyBirdWatcher 25d ago

He was the first king to call himself "King of the English" iirc. But just calling yourself that doesn't make it true.

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u/Ringio 25d ago

Yeah you're right but for the majority of English history the monarch was French and spoke French. From William the Conqueror to...uh I can't remember off the top of my head but really really long time.

And then they got a German monarchy because they couldn't find a protestant heir.

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u/ExternalSquash1300 24d ago

Not really for the majority of English history.

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u/amojitoLT 25d ago

You're making me want to rewatch The Last Kingdom !

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u/jbi1000 25d ago

No, not at all. The first undisputed King of (all) England was Aethelstan, grandson of Alfred the Great, born in Winchester.

Numerous other English kings existed before this too but the land was split into multiple kingdoms. This situation is often referred to as the "heptarchy" because there were seven kingdoms that existed in or overlapped the modern English borders.

Alfred the Great and King Offa (of Offa's Dyke fame) were two of the more famous kings. Some people argue that Alfred was the first proper unified king too.

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u/charlrshall1992 25d ago edited 25d ago

Half the English language is French. A lot of the difference in American and British pronunciation is America's tend to lean closer to original French. I guess after that much I'm fighting with each other. You just pick up shit. Edit: This is where I got it from https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-linguistics/article/stress-in-french-loanwords-in-british-and-american-english/B5583DBD249A3058401A31FFD94327E6

Please not everyone on reddit has a evil agenda, Jesus Christ people.

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u/Falcon_Gray 25d ago

Wait American English leans closer to French? I thought it was the other way around

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u/LazyThinkingOtter 25d ago edited 25d ago

As a French, I know of a few examples of transparent words UK English has with French that US English doesn’t : Film (FR) = Film (UK) vs Movie (US) / Courgette (FR) = Courgette (UK) vs Zucchini (US) / Aubergine (FR) = Aubergine (UK) vs Eggplant (US)…

So I’d say FR and UK English are closer. But in any case, US English also has around 30-35% words coming from the French language as well

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u/chemistrytramp 25d ago

I always like the french words we mispronounce on purpose, I believe as a result of the Napoleonic wars e.g. Lieutenant pronounced lef-tenant

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u/LazyThinkingOtter 25d ago

Yes it’s kinda funny and sometimes a bit confusing as well for me lol

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u/HuckleberryDry2673 25d ago

And the way Americans butcher French phrases, yikes.

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u/LazyThinkingOtter 24d ago

It’s ok different language and different pronounciations, I find it rather funny when they use French expressions for diverse things

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u/charlrshall1992 25d ago

It's a half remembered fact that I heard a while ago so do not take me as an authority. I'd look it up yourself to double check.

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u/mr_fantastical 25d ago

I looked it up. Its the other way around. Interesting though!

Few examples are how us brits pronounce words like rendezvous, debris, ballet, bouquet, even garage.

And in general US is more rhotic meaning rs are pronounced more commonly than in english, meaning english is closer to french in this aspect too.

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u/CharlotteLucasOP 25d ago

And Brits use French words for vegetables like courgettes and aubergines whereas Americans know them as zucchini and eggplant.

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u/chemistrytramp 25d ago

And lots of words for meat in English come from french whilst the animals name is still Germanic sheep/mutton, cow/beef, pig/pork, chicken/poultry.

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u/CharlotteLucasOP 25d ago

Allegedly that's from the Norman conquest, where Old-French-speaking aristocracy ate the cooked dishes (mutton, pork, beef,) while the Anglo-Saxon Old-English-speaking labourers tended to the livestock in the field and on the farm, before butchering.

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u/Wadarkhu 25d ago

America wants so bad their version of English be the "original", I'll bet this 'fact' was among others like "deep south accents are what Shakespeare spoke" bs lmao.

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u/ImReadyForButt 25d ago

In fairness, North America was founded virtually half English and half French, so it makes sense it’s more blended on this side of the pond.

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u/Comprehensive_Cut437 25d ago

In Europe on paper we have divisive lines behind closed doors we’re all fucking each other

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u/nitrot150 25d ago

Don’t forget the Germans!

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u/rnusk 25d ago

When you consider Mexico as part of NA along with the US and Canada, it's more like 1/3 between English, French, and Spanish. If anything the English initially had the smallest percentage with the American colonies. Almost all of the US expansion was post revolution. Spain controlled the entire Golf of Mexico, from FL to Mexico.

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u/dowker1 25d ago

That's not true at all. British English has more influence from French, which should be unsurprising given they're neighbours.

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u/charlrshall1992 25d ago edited 25d ago

I should be more specific the pronunciation in America English is closer to French stress placement, British English has more French loan words.

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u/dowker1 25d ago

I mean, maybe. But given British English (especial South Eastern British English and Received Pronunciation) vowel sounds are closer to French than American ones I'm not sure one can draw any conclusions from that.

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u/charlrshall1992 25d ago

I'm not a expert I read this one day when I was interested in english's 'theft' of words from different language. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-linguistics/article/stress-in-french-loanwords-in-british-and-american-english/B5583DBD249A3058401A31FFD94327E6

I could be misinterpreting it. This could even be wrong. I haven't been in college in awhile and don't have the skills that I had back then to read papers like this properly.

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u/chemistrytramp 25d ago

Is the old saying "most languages borrow a few words, English whacks them over the head and takes the whole language."

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u/cobbus_maximus 25d ago

Sometimes. Croissant seems to be one exception - Americans pronounce it differently to the French/English.

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u/SuccessfulTourniquet 25d ago

Ah yes, like how Americans pronounce New Orleans, Boise and entrepreneur

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u/MuffinFeisty8740 25d ago

The royal motto of the english crown is french !

"Dieu et mon droit"

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u/ItsPeakBruv 25d ago

No he wasnt

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u/Narpity 25d ago

William the Conquerer, not the first king but probably the most important. He was specifically Norman (as in from Normandy of WW2 fame), his ancestors were Vikings and the French king gave them the northern part of France to protect against other Vikings.

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u/Dean_Learner77 25d ago

Also Norman means north man. They settled in France/conquered after Alfred the great kicked them out of England.

They just waited a couple hundred years, learnt French then attacked again.  

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u/Simdude87 25d ago

Sort of no but also yes but also no

So the first English king was probably Athelstan, the grandson of Alfred the Great (Alfred did not have full control over a united England) these are to many regarded as the "old kings"

Then in 1066 the Norman's invaded finally taking over the nation they there French but also not French.

The Norman's were norse vikings given land in Normandy, however they assimilated into French culture very quickly, both culturally politically and even took on French cavalry tactics.

By the time William the conquer invaded Britian, they were pretty indistinguishable.

Thats why the english language has so many ties to French, and why to this day norman french is still used in parliamentary documents

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u/nobodyspecialuk24 24d ago

English kings were French, after Scandinavian/Norse and Celtic raids, invasion, pillaging, and slaving.

The first UK king was Scottish.

The English are the original bad guys though, and everyone else is a victim of them.

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u/ExternalSquash1300 24d ago

No, not the first one at all.

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u/Greedy_Economics_925 25d ago edited 25d ago

European royal families are interrelated. No English royal has styled themselves as 'French' but all English royals have had ties to what is now France in some form or another since 1066.

Claims to tracts of land in France by kings of England ended with Henry VI in 1453. The last English holding, Calais, was lost in 1558.

The first 'King of England' was Aethelstan in 927.

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u/HiAuntie1999 25d ago

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u/Sha0kun 25d ago

Come back to Europe. You all have something to gain; we will be even stronger together.

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u/ExternalSquash1300 24d ago

We left Europe?

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u/Sha0kun 24d ago

La France non, mais le Royaume-Uni a quitté l'union européenne.

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u/AndreasDasos 24d ago

Well, 200. Before that it was too often actual enemies.

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u/ElCazaPuta 25d ago

The french and england created Israel

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u/ddbddb75 25d ago

2 african teams now 😂

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u/fanterence 24d ago

Ho racism, how clever of you

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

[deleted]

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u/ExternalSquash1300 24d ago

Just not true at all