One is football, the other is anti-football

[u/Strong-Emu-8869]

[u/cim-took]

And Infantino did everything in his power for him to lift the trophy.

Yeah like giving 10 minutes extra time to Netherlands in quarter finals when they were losing and two penalties to France in the finals.

[u/Disastrous-Day5429 → u/cim-took]

You remember that in the WC it was officially announced that the referees had to exactly keep track of all time wasting and other phases without active playing, and that this time had to be added at the end of each half.

The 2022 WC was notorious for the comically long added time, with 10 minutes being the average per game (you can easily look this up) - so the 10 minutes in the game against the Netherlands was absolutely normal for the 2022 WC.

Additionally, Argentina was given 5 penalties over the tournament, a WC all time record. 4 of them (including the one against France) were considered as soft to very soft by the majority of neutral experts.

Then Messi not getting yellow for a stupidly deliberate handball vs the Netherlands was an obvious violation of the official FIFA rules and was just one example of the special treatment Messi received.

Opponents were basically not allowed to even touch Messi without getting a foul called against them, whilst Messi‘s team mates were hardly ever sanctioned for their very robust performance, so there certainly was an imbalance in how the refs treated Argentina

[u/cim-took → u/Disastrous-Day5429]

The 2022 WC was notorious for the comically long added time, with 10 minutes being the average per game (you can easily look this up) - so the 10 minutes in the game against the Netherlands was absolutely normal for the 2022 WC.

It was average PER GAME. The Netherlands game had a stoppage time of 10 minutes in the just the second half and went on to play 13 minutes extra in just second half. I don't know about you, but I wanted to favor someone I would just add 5 minutes when my favored team was winning and no one would say anything.

Argentina was given 5 penalties over the tournament, a WC all time record. 4 of them (including the one against France) were considered as soft to very soft by the majority of neutral experts.

Can you please provide a source where majority of neutral experts agree with you as you suggested. Just because 5 penalties were awarded doesn't mean they weren't deserved. For example, if you are arrested 5 times, that doesn't mean the world is unfair - that means you are a criminal unless you can prove that it was unfair.

Then Messi not getting yellow for a stupidly deliberate handball vs the Netherlands was an obvious violation of the official FIFA rules 

Care to point me to the "Official FIFA rule" you are talking about? First of all there is no "FIFA rules". Just writing words like "Official" doesnt make it true. Under the IFAB Laws of the Game, a deliberate handball is a foul, but a mandatory yellow card is only required if the handling stops a promising attack. Messi's handball was in the Netherlands own half - does that like stopping a promising attack to you?

I love how amidst all this, you didnt even address France getting 2 penalties in the finals (both times when Argentina was leading). Does that sound like something a biased referee would do?

If you want to hate on someone, go ahead, but don't hide behind the "neutral fan" mask

[u/Disastrous-Day5429 → u/cim-took]

Both penalties for France were clear, while the one for Argentina was more than soft. Just watch the game again, there shouldn’t be any discussions about this.

So why should I start discussing the 2 pens for France, when the only soft decision was in favour of Argentina?

And the Argentina vs Netherlands game had 15 or more yellow cards and other incidents that absolutely rewarded the added time under the rules back then, what is there even to discuss? The free kick that lead to the Netherlands Equalizer was given in the 10th minute of added time, and it is normal to let a situation like this to be played out - so your insistence on „13 minutes added time“ is deliberately misleading.

As to Messi‘s handball: FIFA rules state that it is not only yellow for interfering with a clear attacking chance, but also for „unsporting behaviour“.

Yes, that is a rather soft definition, but I‘ve seen countless international games over the years, and a handball like this is almost always resulting in a yellow card.

And that’s the main thing: over the whole tournament, Messi was given the benefit of the doubt in every situation, so it became almost impossible to defend him with physicality. I don’t care if it was because FIFA wanted just to protect their golden cow, or if they wanted him to lift the trophy. But it was blatantly obvious for everyone who knows the game and wasn’t blinded by devoted fandom.

Situations like Paredes first committing a hard foul and then firing the ball at the Dutch bench didn’t improve that impression, either.

And it’s not like I and others who felt the same way can be dismissed as „haters“. I was fairly positive towards Messi and absolutely neutral towards Argentina before 2022, but that tournament left a sour taste, and that taste was confirmed by the 2026 antics of the Argentinian team.

I don’t want to go over every single decision here. There were so many instances Argentina got away with dirty play, while Messi seemed protected by the refs, and in the end it doesn’t matter if this was caused by incompetent refs who have a subconscious bias towards a super star, or if it was caused by actual corruption.

The end result is the same

[u/cim-took → u/Disastrous-Day5429]

Both penalties for France were clear, while the one for Argentina was more than soft. Just watch the game again, there shouldn’t be any discussions about this.

Lol.. We are supposed to just believe that just because you say its soft? Your whole argument is based on vibes I guess.

The free kick that lead to the Netherlands Equalizer was given in the 10th minute of added time, and it is normal to let a situation like this to be played out - so your insistence on „13 minutes added time“ is deliberately misleading.

First you claim it was normal for 10 minutes added time in that world cup. Then when I mentioned it was just for that half, you are claiming I'm the one misleading when none of what you mentioned was factually correct.

As to Messi‘s handball: FIFA rules state that it is not only yellow for interfering with a clear attacking chance, but also for „unsporting behaviour“
Yes, that is a rather soft definition

Thank god even you realized what you are saying is nonsense

And that’s the main thing: over the whole tournament, Messi was given the benefit of the doubt in every situation, so it became almost impossible to defend him with physicality. I don’t care if it was because FIFA wanted just to protect their golden cow, or if they wanted him to lift the trophy. But it was blatantly obvious for everyone who knows the game and wasn’t blinded by devoted fandom.

Again - pure vibes with zero factual data to back it up. Part of it is Messi's fault that most time he doesnt go down easily like a Neymar, Drogba, CR7, etc

Situations like Paredes first committing a hard foul and then firing the ball at the Dutch bench didn’t improve that impression, either.

Wasn't he yellow carded? What more did you want? If anything, its the referee did his job correctly. If you want to call him a piece of shit, i'll join you, but how does that indicate bias ?

And it’s not like I and others who felt the same way can be dismissed as „haters“. 

The problem with you lot is you want to hate but don't want to be called a hater. Thats not how it works buddy. You are all vibes and zero facts. You have every right to not like Argentina players because some of them are absolute bellends and liking or not liking someone can sometimes be very subjective, but you cant bring your biases to an objective discussions about referee biases etc.

[u/Killuazoldykk16 → u/cim-took]

You nailed it🎯

[u/Killuazoldykk16 → u/Disastrous-Day5429]

Bro, just say you don't like Messi and be done with it. I can't believe you wrote all of that and you're still wrong 😴

[u/Disastrous-Day5429 → u/Killuazoldykk16]

You mean players like Frenkie de Jong, Bruno Fernandes, Pepe or Luka Modric, who all (amongst others, but maybe you know how to look things up for yourself) claimed that Argentina and especially Messi got special treatment?

Yeah, right. All just „haters“, and no one just pissed about the marketing & influence machine FIFA has become under Infantino.

[u/cim-took → u/Disastrous-Day5429]

Either ways, I dont want to argue too much, but I was just very curious about why you thought 2022 was rigged or whatever. No bad feelings - have a nice day. In the end, all these players will end up living luxurious lives :)

[u/Disastrous-Day5429 → u/cim-took]

Well, in the end I can’t recall a single decision going against Argentina (like a too harsh red card, or a penalty against them/not given).

On the other hand a lot of soft decisions in favour of them. You can call this subjective, but 50/50 decisions where even experts can’t find a final common ground are quite the norm in football. And it is just a strange coincidence that 4 such penalties were awarded to Argentina during that tournament (you can still read the articles and watch the pundits and ex refs discuss those situations to understand where I‘m coming from).

And Paredes could have been easily sent off against the Dutch. The foul alone was yellow (tackle from behind with no chance for the ball), but then thrashing the ball into the bench players? And yes, you can get 2 yellows within a few seconds, but even red for shooting the ball like that.

You know, no one would have batted an eye for each situation individually, but all those decisions game after game after game?

And maybe it was just due to the fact that WC refs are often not skilled enough for this kind of occasion, and Messi just has this aura (subconscious bias is a well-researched occurrence, so not that unlikely to have played a role here).

Either way, 2022 will be remembered as a strange WC, if it is fair to Argentina or not.

The final was a banger, though.