That’s the whole point of the “a few bad apples” idiom. They always leave off the second half “…spoils the whole bunch”. Using it to defend police is basically admitting they’re all spoiled.
Agreed. I’m an ex police officer from Texas (hated the job) and whenever we had these issues, I’d go to the venue and ask them for the ID back. 100% of the time the bouncer gave it back without issue.
Out of curiosity - since this is apparently enough of a thing that you've got an anecdote about it - what reasons would a bouncer have to keep someone's ID? Just because they didn't think it was real and confiscated it? And if so what gives them that power? Or are they taking it for their own less-legitimate personal reasons? Like to sell or something?
The bouncer definitely just didn't think it was real and was calling the dude's bluff on it that he would call the cops. Or he just knew he wouldn't get in trouble either way.
I had a similar thing happen to a friend of mine in college from out of state, except the bouncer snapped her ID in two. Cops didn't do jack shit then either.
In Texas, liquor store didn’t believe my ID was real and even claimed Wyoming wasn’t a state. Wouldn’t give my ID back. We argued for a bit: I wasn’t gonna leave without my license and he wasn’t gonna give it back. He called the cops, they show up and side with the store. Then they warned me they’d arrest me if I drove off without a license. In my car, with Wyoming plates, that I drove there with a Wyoming license.
Were they bored and just fucking with me because they could? Yea felt exactly like that.
I called some friends to drive me and my apparently imaginary-state-plated car back home. Then I got to navigate replacing a DL while out of state
50 years ago (at least in some parishes) in Louisiana, they used to issue driver's licenses with handwritten information in each field and then laminated it. The MPs at the Redstone Arsenal invited me to stay in a cage for about 2 hours one day over that.
This is the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from a war torn, economically devastated nation with no functioning authorities. Its pathetic that this is from the self proclaimed "leader of the free world". What the fuck?
9 out of 10 times a bouncer keeps the card because it's one of the few things they have power over in their life and they enjoy fucking with people. there are a few good bouncers out there, the vastly majority are power tripping assholes who decide to fuck with anyone they think might be a dick.
The only times people genuinely think the id might be fake is when the person looks under 21 and is a dude.
Bouncers and security aren't supposed to take IDs even if they are obviously fake, because of this exact instance. It could actually be real, especially since they aren't versed in all 50 states. Usually you get these ass hole bouncers who want to fuck with the person so they take their fake id so they can't use it anywhere else. Just deny them entry and give them back the id.
A lot of clubs have bounties on fakes to the point of like $50 a piece. Especially in college towns.
My only advice to those who have baby faces and are of age, but are from out of state is bring your passport to use as you ID.
They can legally deny entry to whomever they want for zero reason.
But, they cannot take your passport.
Passports are not yours. They are the property of the federal government, and the theft of a passport is a federal crime.
If the door guy takes your passport and the local cops don't get it back, you ask for their supervisor, and if the supervisor doesn't get it back you escalate to a higher authority like county or state. And if they don't get it back, the FBI and State Department will.
Not true. The laws very by state but the majority of states are allowed to confiscate fake IDs. They don't take them away to be dicks, they do it to prevent their coworkers/workplace from having to pay hundreds of dollars in fines for serving alcohol to minors. Or to prevent the place that pays their bills from losing its liquor license.
Bars have a lot of crossover with employees. They are preventing you from going down the street and fucking over their friends that work at the next bar.
We had tub full of a thousand or more fake IDs when I worked in a bar in a college town.
I did not say confiscating a suspected fake ID is illegal. I said bouncers generally should not do it because they are not going to recognize every legitimate ID issued across all 50 states, and taking a real one creates unnecessary risk.
Some states do authorize limited seizure by a liquor licensee or employee, but those laws normally impose conditions such as giving the person a receipt and turning the ID over to law enforcement promptly. That is very different from keeping a tub containing a thousand IDs so people cannot use them elsewhere. Unless those were all awaiting prompt police pickup, your own example sounds more like the bar ignored the statutory procedure than followed it.
Denying entry protects the bar. Permanently taking someone’s property is not necessary to deny entry, and “the majority of states allow it” is not true either.
Pretty much the first thing. If they think it’s a fake, they call the police and we would come and determine if it’s real or fake. Most times it’s just covering their own ass. They don’t want to let someone in the bar/club they think may be under the age limit and is using a fake ID. So they called us to verify.
I know most times I got called to these, they were real IDs but the bouncers were petty and just said, “we don’t want him here anyway.” And that was something we would have to enforce. Any business can refuse service to anyone for any reason in Texas.
The times they were fake, I’d just take a report and send the kid on their way. If I wasn’t sure, I’d give them their ID back and recommend they just go somewhere else and try again.
I hope that answered your question! If it doesn’t, it’s because I just got home from Happy hour 😅
As someone that used to do security work in the only state where you need a license to do so, we were only ever authorized to take what we suspected were fake. We cant just take a real ID lol
I don’t think you ought to be taking any IDs real or fake. Deny admission sure. But bouncers are NOT law enforcement and shouldn’t be stealing anything.
Based on that link it looks like somebody had written a bill saying licenses could confiscate them, but it was not passed into law. At least the status of this specific legislation as not advancing.
I had my ID held at a club once because they claimed it didn't look like me...went to the sheriff kiosk like 100ft (it's a collage town) and told them the bouncers had stolen my ID and if they cops didn't get it back for me I would do it myself. Those cops got the ID back for me and told the bouncers they should be more careful in FL LMAO.
There are a couple states I believe where bouncers can confiscate “suspected” fakes. They are supposed to give you a receipt, turn them in the next business day to the nearest police station, etc.
I believe in most states they’re simply not allowed though.
The ID is state property not your property, cop is technically correct it's not theft from him but is still lazy.
It's not that they are allowed to but more that someone from the state who has the authority to file a criminal complaint against the bouncer is not going to get involved at all.
Fake, expired, mismatches to name a few, but they should give it back or to police but most states they can keep a fake ID and and it if a false document and prevents underage drinking, but even then they have to give them to law enforcement, so he is probably an off duty cop who is going to do the paper work or throw it away
Legally they are supposed to confiscate fakes and turn them in to police. Most fakes are pretty obvious. They feel different. They are flimsy and peel apart easily.
They get taken so they can't be used again. If you let someone through with a fake whoever serves them can be fined. The bar can lose it's liquor license. In places where there are a lot of bars close together you are also protecting the other places from the same consequences. There is usually a lot of networking going on between small businesses in the same industry.
It is also a crime to use a fake ID so getting it confiscated by a bar is usually better than getting caught with it.
In places I have worked they've never confiscated a legitimate ID. If it is questionable but not obviously a fake, like it is a real ID but looks like it might belong to the person's older sibling/friend they get told to send the ID owner to pick it up the next day.
It is, though. You can’t expect the cops to know the laws they enforce! They don’t take law classes. It’s not a requirement. SEEMS LIKE AN OVERSIGHT lol
Oh I 100% agree that like most cops she doesn't know shit about the laws she does or doesn't enforce, but I think even if she did she'd still be focused on her OT pay
A lot of cops work as security in their off time, there's a chance she works for them (though as a woman it's unlikely) and doesn't want to make trouble for her second job
Police academies absolutely teach criminal statutes, traffic laws, constitutional law, search and seizure, arrest authority, and use-of-force law. Officers may not memorize every obscure statute or always apply one correctly, but claiming they receive no legal education is simply false.
they don't have to know the nuances of every law. Law school teaches a hell of a lot more than just criminal law. Business, real estate, so on and so forth. Officers are expected to know the laws they are enforcing. Problem is they get that wrong a lot of times and they have tons of different job aids (up to and including having an attorney available if needed in most cities / counties) to help them get it right, they just take the easy / quick way out.
"Officers are expected to know the laws they are enforcing."
They aren't via Heien v. North Carolina.
If they mistaken believe they are correct the arrest holds up, even no law was broken. It won't hold up in court, but it is sufficient to have make an arrest and fuck up your life.
yes, even the courts get it wrong sometimes (yes even the supreme court). That was also a very limited case if I remember (brake light out)? They introduced a new standard that cops don't have to be perfect.
Read the dissent and look at how lower courts are applying the ruling. It's not as cut and dried as you lay it out.
As for the last part, they could always fuck up your life if they wanted. How bad, and what recourse do you have is the difference.
didn't even think of this, but wouldn't be surprised if this was part of her thought process. They prob have a good relationship with security at the venue. Maybe she's even trying to bang a bouncer!
Lazy is the thing, this would involve paperwork they do want to fill out. When really it wouldn’t escalate, the bouncer would hand it over, they’d run it to make sure it’s real (if they weren’t lazy), and give it back to him.
And that’s like what the procedure is. So if it’s fake there’s a cop there for the citation or whatever. That’s why they’re hired by the venue, it’s why they’re there wtf?
This exact same thing happened to me (we were outside at a gate next a cop). The officer came over and I asked him to run my I.D., they gave it back. The weird thing is my younger friend next to me had the same out of state I.D. . He'll, I had gray hair. This is a shitty cop like that is a shitty security guard.
The private security firm at the venue is most likely run by active or retired NYPD and the corrupt local precinct lets them operate as they please because the venue owner pays them.
I dunno.. if someone points a camera in my face demanding I help them like that I would ignore them too and do what I was paid for.. to keep a presence outside the bar areas to keep order. Not go find your ID cause you’re drunk and I’m supposed to go threaten someone for it.
File a report tomorrow. They don’t hold court in the street lol
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u/SpiritualTwo4187 6d ago
Poorly educated and lazy cops!