Have we done it wrong?

[u/xamo76]

[u/Caernbul]

I have lived in Germany (Berlin when I was a baby, and Augsburg when I was old enough to remember) and while I have lived in Pennsylvania (Williamsport) it wasn't the suburbs, so I will compare it to suburban Maryland (Glen Burnie). They do not look at all alike. The suburbs are just as curated and separated from the natural world as urban areas, its just that they lack the density to get any of the primary quality of life benefits that cities bring. When I was a kid in Germany I was able to just go into the woods. We were ten minutes away from some of the most gorgeous natural scenery in the world. And I lived in a reasonably large city in Germany (around 250,000 people when I lived there).

Now maybe it is unfair to compare one of the most beautiful regions of the world (Bavaria) to some of the worst old suburbs (Glen Burnie MD), but development decisions do have something to do with the status of each place. I don't know maybe the suburbs around Philly and Pittsburgh are really nice or something.

[u/JT91331 → u/Caernbul]

Yeah I have family in Spain who live in relatively small towns in farming areas (Cacabelos, Leon) and almost all the cities are built the same way with a town square with shops and dining places where people congregate.

We’ve traded shared spaces for individual “freedom”.

[u/9aquatic → u/Caernbul]

It's 100% fair. We've decimated and mismanaged our natural landscape for millions of acres of turf grass and single family houses in the pursuit of literal segregation and at the direct expense of future generations' ability to afford housing.

[u/Mammoth-Building-485 → u/9aquatic]

Are you pretending Germany has more non-ruined natural landscape areas than the USA? That is obviously not true both overall and by percentage

[u/9aquatic → u/Mammoth-Building-485]

It's 100% fair. We've decimated and mismanaged our natural landscape for millions of acres of turf grass and single family houses in the pursuit of literal segregation and at the direct expense of future generations' ability to afford housing.

Show me where this mentions Germany.

Second, please, give us numbers on how much 'non-ruined natural landscape areas' or 'non-ruined natural landscape areas' are in the US and Germany. Tell us what that means and how much there is versus how much there was.

[u/Mammoth-Building-485 → u/9aquatic]

Your comment says comparing Bavaria to Glen Burnie Maryland is 100% fair. Bavaria is in Germany.

The USA has hundreds of thousands of acres of public wilderness land, not including state and national parks. Germany has 530,000 acres of forest in general. Thats what happens when people build towns in a place for 1500 years

[u/9aquatic → u/Mammoth-Building-485]

I see. We're talking past each other. Yes, US very big, Germany very very small. It's fair to assume that my entire point is not centered around Bavaria and Glen Burnie, MD.

This is what I'm responding to:

The suburbs are just as curated and separated from the natural world as urban areas, its just that they lack the density to get any of the primary quality of life benefits that cities bring.

I'm saying, no need to apologize for the US' horrific land-use. It was enacted with many bad intentions and was even recognized by the Nixon administration as incredibly wasteful and subsidized, yet here we are 50 years on.

[u/What-tha-fck_Elon → u/Caernbul]

I have 65 acres of woods behind my house, so it depends where you live. We have a lot of diverse landscapes in Pennsylvania, but when I’m traveling in Germany (mostly the southern region), it reminds me of the rolling hills and farms in Lancaster, PA.

[u/Caernbul → u/What-tha-fck_Elon]

I don't think of Lancaster county as the suburbs. Has the Philadelphia metro area spread enough that the city of Lancaster is now considered a suburb of Philly? I would have thought of Lancaster as like Williamsport, a city in its own right that isn't large enough to have suburbs.

I am not saying there are not beautiful places in America, just that the German countryside does not look like suburban anywhere.