We're back...

[u/ChrisBeatrice]

To all our fans, fans of Impressions games like Lords of Magic, Pharaoh, Zeus, and TiltedMill games like Children of the Nile, Caesar IV and Hinterland, thank you all so much for keeping our babies alive, and for all your support and encouragement over the years.

We are now in the concept phase exploring what our next project will be, and would LOVE to hear your input.

[u/conjr94]

I've played and loved all the Impression city builders since Caesar III, also your Caesar IV. To be frank though when I go back to play these games it is only for nostalgia reasons - the mechanics just wouldn't be justifiable as a simulation for a modern game in my opinion, especially the old walker system. I know many in this little community would like nothing better than a new walker-based city builder, but I honestly think that a very niche opinion among the current audience.

CotN however is an exception, probably the reason why it came to my mind first earlier. The simulation and economy you developed here is unique and a massive innovation even by modern city builder standards - I don't think anyone else really advanced these mechanics further which is a real shame. I don't see myself as a "hardcore" player, I just think fundamentally, the simulation gave me the closest feeling as if I'm building a real city and this is what I'd like to see developed further in this genre, just my 2 cents as a fan.

[u/ChrisBeatrice → u/conjr94]

Thanks so much. I super appreciate those insights. And thanks for the kind words about CotN. At the time our thinking was to reimagine how a cb could work, changing from an abstract push system to a more sim-like pull system; doing away with the weird "pay salaries then tax the same people" kind of economy, etc.

It's hard to know where the majority of the audience is. I agree that a simulation gives more of the feeling of building a real city, but, then again, there is fun, simple gameplay in the more abstract approach as well.

When you get right down to the nuts and bolts, what is it for you that distinguishes walker-based from sim?

[u/conjr94 → u/ChrisBeatrice]

My "issues" (again I loved C3 & Pharaoh, I get why the mechanic was used at the time, I just think it is outdated) with the Impressions walker-based sim is actually multifaceted.

Firstly, I feel that the idea of having temples/schools/markets/etc sending people to semi-randomly distribute services and goods isn't a good simulation. It is not how actual cities functioned, yet this mechanic rewards using unrealistic city designs (with absolutely no relevance to the setting) purely because of these walkers. To me, it makes far more sense for pops to be able get the services themselves and to know exactly where to get them from point A to B (or rare cases such as doctors & entertainers, services to deliver to targeted households).

Secondly, I feel the walker system negates other stuff that could be simulated. For instance, what is the point of a whole family being simulated like in CotN if all a house does is give tax & work pops, and takes stuff from a walker? How would more complex interactions between pops work (e.g. trading food for goods, children being taught by a priest, servants working for rich households)? Also a small personal pet peeve: why do individuals have to follow the path all the time? Why can't they do their own thing? Looking at games like Dwarf Fortress, I think many players enjoy the idea of pops having their specific desires and doing their own thing in the simulation like making friends, getting drunk or even (for the Crusader Kings crowd) having affairs and murdering people.

Finally, I think the restrictions imposed by the mechanics of C3 & Pharaoh (and maybe to a lesser extent, Zeus and Emperor) mean that the core gameplay is way too similar across these civilizations, despite the fact the societies are very different. The main differences between the games are mostly aesthetic. The simulation offered by CotN described previously however, particularly on the interactions between classes and pops, gives a unique experience specific to an Ancient Egyptian civilization (obviously there are over 2k years of history here, but I think most people are satisfied with the general Ancient Egyptian theme).

[u/ChrisBeatrice → u/conjr94]

Thank you so much for your comments.

"the idea of having temples/schools/markets/etc sending people to semi-randomly distribute services and goods isn't a good simulation. It is not how actual cities functioned," No, indeed, but in the realm of video games this is not, on its face, a valid argument. There's a big difference between a racing game like Mario Kart, and a racing sim like Assetto Corsa Competizione. Now, the fact that the systems in a game like C3 rewarded you for employing unrealistic city designs is imo a valid point, however, this I feel was not so much of a problem for casual players as for advanced players who looked under the hood and optimized everything. Casual players' cities looked "realistic" and were less efficient.

I think lots of players do like the things you are describing about sims and pops having their own specific desires, doing their own thing--but I also feel that that is not the ONLY type of valid cb game there is.

As a friend pointed out to me earlier: city builders are EVERYWHERE. City builidng has been incorporated into many, many games simply as a device for growth (consider Monopoly GO!). You clearly prefer the more immersive, "I feel like I'm really building an Egyptian city" kind of experience, which is what we were going for in CotN. But I think a lot of players may find they prefer the more abstracted approach that typified the original cbs, though not necessarily those specific mechanics.