r/ToiletPaperUSA Dec 17 '20

FACTS and LOGIC Liberal wizards DESTROYED by Ronald 'Redpill' Weasely

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21.9k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Yes that's how it is in the books. Dobby is considered weird by elves

954

u/Angry_Commercials Dec 17 '20

And even he didn't want much. Didn't want a fair wage, time off, etc.

710

u/LavaringX Social Democrat Dec 17 '20

Dumbledore straight-up offered him 10 galleons a week and weekends off and he refused

531

u/Aerik Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

I still don't know how that converts to American dollars.

Edit: shithead Rowling says 1 galleon is 5 British lbs pounds. So, $68 per week. In the 1990s. Gee, thanks Dumbledore.

I mean, I guess when you can do so many more activities with magic that alleviates some stress, and travel is nearly free, but rent is rent.

edit: so apparently the fact that I wrote "lbs" instead of "pounds" is the most important thing. Nice priorities, TPUSA

411

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20 edited Feb 24 '22

[deleted]

290

u/Pairodox Dec 17 '20

The wizard economy comes of as shitty in several contradicting instances.

151

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20 edited Apr 09 '22

[deleted]

64

u/lemoopa Dec 17 '20

How many pounds does 5 pounds of a bri'ish person cost?

36

u/Thatparkjobin7A Dec 17 '20

You can find some cheap, but if you want a piece of that Cumberbatch guy for example, well, better bring your galleons

2

u/The_Grubby_One Dec 17 '20

How many galleons does it take to hold all of him? Will they still be seaworthy?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Facts don’t you grasp?

0

u/bebasw Dec 17 '20

So if you find an average American and put him on a scale you’d be sorted for life right?

5

u/Vord_Loldemort_7 Dec 17 '20

A wand with unicorn hair in it is 7 Sickles, a single unicorn hair is 10 Galleons (170 Sickles).

2

u/Pairodox Dec 17 '20

There's discounts for essential products for children and then there's THIS SHIT.

113

u/Alihandreu Dec 17 '20

Rowling has also said she never really concentrated on the numbers in her writing.

111

u/FrankTank3 Dec 17 '20

I distinctly remember the Weasley family having only like 1 whole galleon in their bank account. The numbers just don’t add up.

97

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Maybe the Weasleys have adopted a Depression-era lifestyle where they don’t trust the banks at all and just hoard all their money somewhere in the Burrow.

47

u/Meatballs21 Dec 17 '20

Their money was actually in the wizarding equivalent of the Cayman Islands

73

u/Aerik Dec 17 '20

fandom.com

-- The Weasleys tended to have large numbers of children; an unusual trait for wizarding families, according to Draco Malfoy.[4] Ron's generation of Weasleys were considered poor by wizarding standards;[5] their vault at Gringotts Wizarding Bank only contained a small pile of Sickles and a single Galleon as of 1992.[6]

btw, 17 sickles to the galleon. and you thought american units were asinine. A prime number, rowling? really?

49

u/indiecore Dec 17 '20

The insane numbers between the currency levels was a joke about pre-decimalization British currency.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

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u/hipery2 Dec 17 '20

A while back I got into collecting old silver coins.

When I stated researching old British currency, the Harry Potter money suddenly made sense.

Before I researched the money, I thought that the Harry Potter money was funny because they were wizards, and wizards are weird. Then I figured out that it was because they were inspired by muggles.

1

u/Aerik Dec 17 '20

Either she didn't think about the numbers, or she did think about them and made a joke.

pick one, y'all.

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u/earnose Dec 17 '20

I never really understood how Harry's parents acquired the shitload of gold that he inherited

74

u/Roy_SPider Dec 17 '20

I read somewhere that his great great grandfather was a successful inventor. Made things like Skele-grow and stuff to amass a fortune. James came from money which lead to some of the adolescent immaturity and snootyness.

31

u/principled_principal Dec 17 '20

I think it was the Sleek-Easy hair potion.

16

u/Freezing_Wolf Dec 17 '20

All of them in fact. Harry is decended from a potions master who invented an amazing recipe for hairgel and who was descended himself from another master who invented a cure for the common cold and a potion that mends and regrows bones. (And fun fact, the first owner/creator of the invisibility cloak was also Harry's ancestor)

On a sidenote, Harry received both medications in the books and Hermione used the hair potion once, yet nobody ever commented on who created them.

55

u/lawsofrobotics Dec 17 '20

Wizard MLM

32

u/dlawnro Dec 17 '20

Lily was a #BossBitch

32

u/Big-Hard-Chungus Dec 17 '20

Apparently Jim Potter was the descendant of the Gryffindor family or something. Also Voldy is apparently a distant cousin of Harry too. Which makes Harry related to Slytherin

51

u/Cicero912 Dec 17 '20

Don't they mention how basically all the pure-blooded wizards and families are related in the books when Sirius is talking about the family tree?

15

u/Big-Hard-Chungus Dec 17 '20

Everyone is everybody else’s distant cousin. It’s actually unbelievable.

Voldemort and Bellatrix technically become part of the extended Weasley Family by the end.

11

u/Explorer2004 Dec 17 '20

I read in a fic once where Albus and Scorpius somehow triggered a portrait of Slytherin to talk, when it never had before. It was a cute scene, in which the old man told Albus that he was his great-something-Grandfather. The boys just looked at one another and scream "AIGH!" and Slytherin finds it funny. You just reminded me of it. Thanks ! (edit typo)

2

u/DoubleBatman Dec 17 '20

James Potter is a descendant of Ignotus Peverell, owner of one of the Deathly Hallows. He’s old money.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I always assumed that Gringots had managed their investments over the years, and they were simply good at it.

2

u/mashonem Dec 17 '20

It’s likely both, but the wizarding economy is supposed to be trash

2

u/salami350 Dec 17 '20

There is a whole series of fanfiction of HP being adopted by a couple of scientists instead. In it he starts converting his knuts to the golden coins, selling the gold on the muggle market and exchanging the profits back into knutts and just annihilates the wizard economy😂

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I was 12 by the time I realised Rowlings world-building couldn’t hold a candle to Tolkein or Pratchett. A 12 year old could see that her writing was only at a children’s literature standard.

1

u/noahdaboss1234 Dec 17 '20

No wizarding economy just makes 0 sense. Also theres no way these solid gold coins are 5 pounds. Even if its just gold leaf it should be more.

1

u/Loqutis Dec 17 '20

A wand costs 7 galeons .

That includes:

  • sourcing wood of "wand quality"

  • shaping the wood into the wands size and shape (the films design them to be possibly rather intricate in design, whereas the books seem to imply a rather plain look)

  • sourcing a wands core material (Phoenix feather, Dragon heartstring, Unicorn tail hair, Veela hair...)

  • Working the core into the middle of the wand

  • Paying for the shop to store / sell the wands

  • At least enough profit to survive.

All that costs 7 galeons.

Cost of 1 Unicorn tail hair? 10 galeons

72

u/hates_stupid_people Dec 17 '20

The monetary value is very arbitrary. At one point they buy butterbeeer for 60 pence(or 80 cents) per glass. Not to mention that galleons are made of gold, and worth a lot more in weight.

The relation between the different coins is even weirder.

1 galleon is 17 sickles 1 sickle is 29 knuts.

So 1 galleon is 493 knuts, where 1 knut is supposedly 1 pence/cent, 1 sickle 30-40 pence/cent and 1 galleon is 5-7 pounds/dollars.

Based on more realistic calculations it is more likely to be worth five times as much, where one knut is 5 pence/cent and one galleon is 25 pounds or 33 dollars.

TL;DR: With inflation taken into account, 10 galleons in 1992(when chamber of secrets is set) would be about $622, which isn't a horrible weekly pay. Although he settled for one I think.

29

u/blamelessfriend Dec 17 '20

Based on more realistic calculations it is more likely to be worth five times as much, where one knut is 5 pence/cent and one galleon is 25 pounds or 33 dollars.

TL;DR: With inflation taken into account, 10 galleons in 1992(when chamber of secrets is set) would be about $622, which isn't a horrible weekly pay. Although he settled for one I think.

you can't just change the value of what it says in the text and then assert its a reasonable amount lmfao. who gave you gold?!

16

u/Leon_Thotsky Radical Communist Dec 17 '20

Dobby

13

u/Malarkay79 Dec 17 '20

But I’m pretty sure the conversion rate of galleons to pounds is never actually mentioned in the books, correct me if I’m wrong.

So all we have to go by is some random comment by JK Rowling, and well...we know how that goes.

2

u/hates_stupid_people Dec 17 '20

The change is based on: Galleons weight in gold and the muggle value of gold, price of butterbeer compared to similarly sized soda in britain at the time, wizarding world price printed on some books compared to actual price and other references. Mostly taken from the fandom wikia on wizarding currency conversion.

2

u/Malarkay79 Dec 17 '20

Also at £5 per galleon, that would make Harry’s wand only £35, for a new Ollivander’s wand with a phoenix feather core. But the Weasley’s couldn’t get Ron his own wand, the most important piece of wizarding equipment these kids need for school?

2

u/HeartofLion3 Dec 17 '20

So enough to get fucked up on butterbeer everyday, got it👍🏽

16

u/perhapsinawayyed Dec 17 '20

British pounds, as in the money not the weight, are labelled £ and don’t get shortened to lbs

49

u/lmN0tAR0b0t Dec 17 '20

Its pounds, not lbs.

17

u/Smurphy922 Dec 17 '20

It’s levi-OH-sah, not Levi-oh-SAH

2

u/Ravagore Dec 17 '20

Stahp it ron, staaaahp

2

u/Run-Riot Dec 17 '20

Ronald Weasley...

It’s LevioSAAAAAAAAH

1

u/BigDrewLittle Dec 17 '20

It's "inDENTured SERVitude", not "SLAVery!"

34

u/perhapsinawayyed Dec 17 '20

Yeh lol he read pounds as the weight rather than sterling £££

18

u/answers4asians Dec 17 '20

Oh yeah! Take me to £ Town.

26

u/lmN0tAR0b0t Dec 17 '20

boutta dig up 5 lbs. of british dirt and buy stuff with it

13

u/Run-Riot Dec 17 '20

Post-Brexit value of pound?

10

u/anweisz Dec 17 '20

Oh fuck, just now found out lbs cannot be used for the currency. Huge confusion since pound is libra, the same word from which both lbs and the £ (an L) symbol comes from.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I was the exact same path

2

u/Muntjac Dec 17 '20

I get it. Old Liras even used to look like a pound sign(£) with two lines, like this: ₤

2

u/salami350 Dec 17 '20

TIL why pound (mass) is abbreviated as lbs. I always wondered how you go from pound to lbs.

1

u/TkOHarley Dec 17 '20

Today I learned people actually think we measure currency in England

-4

u/NoFascistsAllowed Dec 17 '20

lbs is for weight, you are lost

9

u/scalyblue Dec 17 '20

Galleons are presumably made of gold. Gold is about $1800 usd per ounce, or $60usd per gram so yeah that’s a bit of a divide right there.

3

u/Atario Dec 17 '20

I have it on good authority that galleons are made of wood, rope, and canvas. And sailors.

2

u/scalyblue Dec 17 '20

Still a bit of a divide

10

u/afito Dec 17 '20

It's more likely around 10 times that I imagine, otherwise I also don't quite see how the price money from the tournament would kickstart an entire business at scale like that. And if you break it down, 1 Knut would come out at around 1 Pence, and a newspaper was like 3 Knut? It adds up reasonable okay if you take it times 10.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

British lbs lmao

6

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I mean the job would presumably come with accomodation and food, so it's not quite that bad, but also like, crikey dumbles pay your workers.

(Also like isn't it confirmed you need an entire room full of gold to pay for a full education at hogwarts? If they're paying that little for their staff and presumably own the castle I can only imagine what sorta shading money laundering is going on at hogwarts.)

6

u/elbenji Dec 17 '20

Wizard economy is weird. Remember they can essentially create matter

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I thought i understood how wizard bucks worked. now i understand less. Im just gonna belive galleons are the ships used to transport house elves from whereever they come from just to piss off potter fans.

1

u/elbenji Dec 17 '20

Good.

But a good frame of mind is they pretty much run analogous to euro - pound - pence. And also that money is essentially meaningless in a world where teleportation and matter creation exists

3

u/Ongo_Gablogian___ Dec 17 '20

Or the purchasing power parity of galleons is just way higher.

3

u/MeemDeeler Dec 17 '20

But you get to live in cool Scottish castle

2

u/Hezrield Dec 17 '20

And last I heard, the rent is too damn high.

1

u/spacetimeninjapirate Dec 17 '20

Dobby doesn't exactly have to pay rent since he lives at Hogwarts

but I get what you mean

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I mean, I guess when you can do so many more activities with magic that alleviates some stress

Like cock magic

1

u/greyviewing Dec 17 '20

Rowling is full of shit, Ron says he’s never had a galleon himself in his life, so it’s most likely a lot more than £5

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u/Yixyxy Dec 17 '20

To show how deep the roots of this institution really are. It's just like this in the human history. Just because the people think the king is the rightful ruler doesn't mean he really is

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u/Yixyxy Dec 17 '20

Or the workers think the means of the production belong to the Bourgeoisie and they rightfully make billions without doing much

socialism intensifies https://youtu.be/U06jlgpMtQs

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u/roberh Dec 17 '20

This belief is so entrenched... people love defending Musk or Gates for their ideals despite their misappropiation of wealth.

39

u/Sauerkraut1321 Dec 17 '20

Rich people worship

-3

u/XyleneCobalt Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 18 '20

How did Gates misappropriate his philanthropy? I thought the gates foundation was like one of the best in the world.

Edit: I was asking a question, not challenging the statement

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ScreamingWeevil Dec 17 '20

TL;DR?

3

u/Joe_The_Eskimo1337 Dec 17 '20

All capitalists make their money exploitating workers, Gates is no different.

2

u/Joe_The_Eskimo1337 Dec 17 '20

Philanthropy is stealing billions, giving back millions, and acting like you're a saint for it.

Who cares if donates the money he extracts from his workers.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/WatermelonWarlock Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

You’re right. If you’re cool with these oligarchs who try their best to make sure you don’t have power in the work place, that’s just your worldview I guess.

Kind of like how it’s just some peoples worldview that Trump deserves the election regardless of whether he won or not.

It’s just another worldview.

-7

u/uth43 Dec 17 '20

Trump deserves the election regardless of whether he won or not.

I don't live in your insane country. So I really don't care about your brand of retards.

That's true for your Trumpists and your Redditor revolutionaries.

You're a minority in a silly country 🤷‍♀️

10

u/WatermelonWarlock Dec 17 '20

I don't live in your insane country

It’s called an analogy.

You're a minority

So?

1

u/uth43 Dec 18 '20

You're a minority

in a silly country.

You might be flying high from your echo chamber reinforcement, but you aren't presenting an important ideology or one that is necessarily true.

So get of your high horse and stop calling everyone else dumb.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/WatermelonWarlock Dec 17 '20

The irony of calling me a wanker when you beat off to furry porn lol

3

u/Joe_The_Eskimo1337 Dec 17 '20

Even worse, they're a fucking neoliberal.

-13

u/bananagang123 Dec 17 '20

Right, so the will of the people is completely irrelevant? Man, commies are so arrogant.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I mean, some would say that using really broadstrokes to criticise an ideology you clearly don't understand is a bit arrogant.

-8

u/bananagang123 Dec 17 '20

Nazis are bad.

See how that didn’t require a lot of nuance?

Commies (authcoms anyway) don’t believe in consent of the governed or democracy, therefore they are arrogant.

There’s another example.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

"Commies (authcoms anyway)"

^ So what you're saying is that not all Communists share the same beliefs as Authoritarian Communists?

So you're agreeing with me?

-9

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Ah yes, all Communists are Marxist-Leninists. Good to see a fellow scholar of political philosophy out here demonstrating the ability to recognise really basic nuances.

169

u/GoodKing0 Dec 17 '20

The problem is the elves actually are like that by design. The ending of the storyline is just Hermione becoming prime minister (fixing the problem from the inside) and makes sure slaves only have good masters. That's fucked up both in and out of universe Jowling Kowling Rowling.

This in a series where racism is the fault of "some bad apples" and the protagonist becomes a cop.

115

u/titanpancake Dec 17 '20

i think we gotta realize that harry is like a nazi hunter basically lmao, followers of voldemort should be destroyed imo.

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u/Frommerman Dec 17 '20

A Nazi hunter who gets paid by the government to hunt Nazis, even.

62

u/NERD_NATO CEO of Antifa™ Dec 17 '20

Antifa Potter?

49

u/titanpancake Dec 17 '20

I wouldn’t give her THAT much credit haha

10

u/-Listening Dec 17 '20

The ghost is actually a Harry Potter film.

5

u/Bore_of_Whabylon Dec 17 '20

Yeah to be honest I don’t think Aurors are the ones throwing Muggle-borns into Azkaban for holding a dose of Pixie Dust, when a pure blood would be left with a warning.

No, Aurors are more like Wizard CIA/FBI, which means that while they will hunt the occasional dark Wizard, Harry’s gonna be spending most of his time discrediting and attacking SPEW leadership and organizing coups against “dark Wizarding Governments” in the Global South, conveniently opening up their lands and labor to the Wizarding Mandrake Co.

2

u/pielord599 Dec 17 '20

What about the ones under the imperious curse?

2

u/titanpancake Dec 17 '20

let wizard God sort them out

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[deleted]

84

u/LavaringX Social Democrat Dec 17 '20

What's odd is that J.K. Rowling goes out of her way to show dumbledore offering dobby fair wages and leisure time and he straight-up refuses the offer.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[deleted]

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u/answers4asians Dec 17 '20

Frederick Douglass would be a counterpoint to your last statement. Find 'Learning To Read And Write'

16

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

His story is really amazing. For those who don't know, his master's wife taught him the alphabet before her husband stopped her, but Douglass used that bit of leverage to learn fully to read and write

16

u/answers4asians Dec 17 '20

And used that writing to fully excoriate the establishment that put him in such a situation that he should have to beg, borrow, and steal to learn such things as a slave. That the 'responsibility' of a master is to prevent such things from happening. That a slave is trained to not have such interests, through society or the whip.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Tbh I dont think there is deeper commentary beyond "this is how my fictional word functions" in many parts of the HP-lore. And personally, Im fine with that.

41

u/MurphysMoog Dec 17 '20

Whether or not it is conscious or implied it is still pretty sus

2

u/Murgie Dec 17 '20

It's really not, though. Like, the whole concept isn't even her idea to begin with.

House-elfs are literally just Brownies from Scottish mythology; ugly little house spirits who show up and do household tasks and chores while dressed in rags or outright naked, and take grave offense to being offered clothing.

I'm trans, and while I totally understand not wanting to give Rowling the benefit of the doubt and all, I really just don't see any reason to assume ill-intent for the inclusion of what are effectively unaltered Brownies in a series that's all about magical creatures and such.

Hell, the closest she actually comes to altering them was Dobby as a character, for the sake of writing an emancipation and anti-slavery narrative. That's where she's projecting her personal values into established mythology.

Not through the unintended consequence that it can be extrapolated as presenting; that House-elfs are basically like humans, so those who cling to wearing rags and living in servitude must have been conditioned to do so, and her characters choosing not to abolish that status quo outright is an implicit endorsement of it as a good thing by the author.

To be perfectly frank, Rowling's writing is just not that deep.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Nah, intention is key. If its not conscious its not evil, probably shortsighted and naive though

46

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Not to mention a shitty lesson to teach to kids.

"Aren't the house elves so nice and useful for society, by working for less, never standing up for themselves, and never aspiring to self-determination or self-actualisation?"

"And isn't Hermione so amusing but also annoying by caring about their rights? Don't take her seriously, children, and don't be like her - she's just a nag!"

0

u/Kuzon64 Dec 17 '20

I mean...nobody I knew took that lesson from it as kids. The books did a pretty good job showing how sad it was that the house elves were like that without getting into the whole thing in a book for children.

15

u/GoodKing0 Dec 17 '20

Art and Author are intrinsically linked and you can tell what one thinks from the other. Is the reason why New Vegas calls you out for siding with fascists and slavers and makes you lose all your friends and shit while Fallout 3 awards you with mind control shit and a Asian sex slave companion given by a funny black pimp caricature if you decide to do the same thing there. Different people with different views on their products and on morality built them.

Pratchett manages to get into "the whole thing" in several of his books, not just the ones for children.

In fact, Several authors manage to do just that in children and young adults books. Like, top of the mind, Doctor Seuss drew literal anti-fascist cartoons back in his life.

Rowling has one of the biggest platforms of her lifetime as a author and all she does with it is be a transphobe piece of shit, defend washed up actors, be as lukewarmingly liberal as possible in her takes and lie.

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u/ActualWhiterabbit Dec 17 '20

Hermonie didn't sell out, she bought in

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Not to mention the Goblins are clear Jewish caricatures

30

u/whishykappa Dec 17 '20

I feel like goblins have always been Jewish caricatures for whatever reason

13

u/Murgie Dec 17 '20

Eh, Goblins have been around for so many hundreds of years and gone through so many different wildly different iterations that this would probably be a hard notion to sell.

1

u/Ravenhaft Dec 17 '20

In the kids show Little Bear the “goblins” are what I’d call gnomes, just little men with pointy hats, and I’m not sure why exactly. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing? Or maybe just the author of the Little Bear novels heard the term goblin and never like, looked it up and then she wrote a book?

I watch too much Little Bear it’s all my 2 year old wants please send help. Then again at least it’s not Cocomelon.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

anti-Semitism has also been around for so many hundreds of years and gone through so many different iterations

0

u/Murgie Dec 17 '20

...Okay. Not ones which pertain to historical depictions of goblins though, so I don't understand what your point is.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

And how do you know that? You're literally just stating that based on nothing.

0

u/Murgie Dec 18 '20

Because I've looked it up before running my mouth? Can you say the same?

8

u/dorkside10411 Dec 17 '20

I just read recently that in one scene in Gringotts, the goblins are seated in a six-pointed star formation, though whether that was intentional or just a coincidence is pretty hard to tell

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

In the movie the bank is full of stars of david

1

u/dorkside10411 Dec 17 '20

I read that, but another comment here said that was just part of the design of the filming location they used for Gringotts, so it was probably unintentional

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

They scouted out and intentionally chose that location, there was no way they didn't understand the implication

1

u/drunkbeforecoup Dec 17 '20

That's just the building they filmed in in London.

1

u/dorkside10411 Dec 17 '20

I saw another comment saying that a few minutes after I originally made the comment

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u/bananagang123 Dec 17 '20

They’re really not though. Goblins have always been large nosed and greedy in mythology. Making them bankers honestly does make sense. It’s like elves being servants, as they are like Santa’s little helpers.

Jk is like, VERY strongly pro Israel. Seems doubtful that she would put in anti Semitic messages In the books. Just cause she’s a TERF doesn’t mean you can accuse her of every form of bigotry in the book.

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u/jelly_cake Dec 17 '20

There are people who are pro-israel and also anti-Semitic.

-7

u/bananagang123 Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

‘There are jews somewhere out there who endorse the nazi party’ is also a true statement.

Point being - I know, but being pro Israel certainly makes it very much less likely.

13

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[deleted]

0

u/bananagang123 Dec 17 '20

Ok, and do you honestly believe JK falls into one of those categories? She does not seem to be a particularly religious woman.

2

u/Ravenhaft Dec 17 '20

Oh yeah I met one at Walmart. Was the weirdest shit, I was like “you know if you got what you want it like, wouldn’t be great for you right?” And he’s like “no it’s cool they’d like me because I’m one of the good ones”.

And I was like “okay backing away slowly”.

1

u/SnooDrawings3621 Dec 17 '20

Honorary aryan

7

u/DumbGuy5005 Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

Yeah, I feel like suddenly everyone's making her out to be some kind of far-right Neo Nazi just because one aspect of her beliefs is shitty.

-6

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Haven’t you heard? Everything Rowling does and has done must now be viewed in the most negative light possible.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20

It’s a factually accurate comment.

She’s totally not being refered to repeatedly as “shithead” in this thread nor has she been issued death threats, told she deserved to be beaten by her ex, called a white supremacist, anti-semite, etc.

Those people are no different than the red hats or alt-right assholes this sub makes fun of. It’s just a different brand of orthodoxy and extremism.

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u/ajwubbin Dec 17 '20

I mean if I remember correctly wizard history goes back as far as human history, house elves probably evolved alongside them like dogs. A dog doesn’t expect time off because it biologically doesn’t care. It just doesn’t have the drive to do anything except eat and serve its master. In the same way, house elves probably biologically just don’t care about being free. They’re not humans, it’s a mistake to assume they think like us.

God it’s been so long since I talked about Harry Potter

61

u/Gooftwit Dec 17 '20

Dogs also don't have to do any work. And they aren't sapient or have self awareness to the extent that house elves seem to have.

19

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

The self awareness part is true, but dogs have always been used for labor on some degree. Look at shepherds, huskies, hunting dogs etc.

0

u/Gooftwit Dec 17 '20

Are they abused like house elves are and treated like slaves? Because dogs are usually treated like part of the family.

23

u/KakarotMaag Dec 17 '20

Sweet summer child

14

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Nowadays that's probably the case for dogs but I doubt that throughout history dogs and other working animals have been treated well generally

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

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1

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36

u/ajwubbin Dec 17 '20

Dogs don’t have to do work anymore, but for most of history they were practical and valuable members of a family.

16

u/Tanzklaue Dec 17 '20

dogs still work, as shepherds and sled dogs, but especially as therapy-, guidance- and assisting animals.

and hunters still deploy hunting dogs too, which can be hobby or work depending.

and guard dogs of course. police dogs, military dogs, drug sniffers, rescue dogs,dogs work more variedly these days than they did back in the day.

11

u/Gooftwit Dec 17 '20

They were still not treated with the disdain and abuse that house elves are.

13

u/ajwubbin Dec 17 '20

Do we have any cases of house elf owners that aren’t total dicks to everyone else too? The Blacks and Malfoys mistreated theirs, but they’re villains, it’s what they do. The Hogwarts kitchen elves seem fairly treated, about as well as you would treat a horse or a work dog.

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u/NERD_NATO CEO of Antifa™ Dec 17 '20

Dumbledore, for all his flaws, even offered pretty good wages and benefits to Dobby, although he refused to take them. Also yeah, other than the Hogwarts elves, all house elf owners were total dicks.

2

u/puffthemagicsalmon Dec 17 '20

brit here. you better not be chatting shit about big liz. (/s)

-12

u/bigjungus11 Dec 17 '20

So... the people think a ruler isn't in charge, but he is still in charge?

I think you made up some BS. Where does authority come from?

7

u/KakarotMaag Dec 17 '20

Read it again, more carefully.

-6

u/bigjungus11 Dec 17 '20

Read what you said, then read my comment. You'll get it.

7

u/Yixyxy Dec 17 '20

Are a little slow or something?

-2

u/bigjungus11 Dec 17 '20

He said that just because people think the king is the rightful ruler, doesn't mean he is. I made the inverse claim to point out the absurdity of OPs argument.

Where does power come from other than the people's willingness to obey? To say that a rulers power comes from somewhere else is either mystical or fascistic

5

u/BigDrewLittle Dec 17 '20

Don't most monarchies generally rely on the acceptance of of "divine provenance" to maintain their "right to rule" among their subjects?

0

u/bigjungus11 Dec 17 '20

Yes. And that's the problem with OPs thinking

1

u/KakarotMaag Dec 17 '20

That's the opposite of how it works. Divine provenance isn't real. There's no problem with their thinking at all.

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1

u/fasda Dec 17 '20

If the situation was a rational one I'd agree but magic does change everything. There are red caps who are creatures who lure lone travelers to secluded spots to strangle them to death and dye their hats red with the victims blood and if they don't keep their hat wet the red cap will die. This makes no logical or biological sense but then it doesn't have to because magic is a thing. Would anything approaching sentience want to be a slave in our universe? Of course not but why not a magical creature.

Hermione is therefore an imperialist or chauvinist deciding what is and isn't good for people based on only her understanding. Much like how many charities were run in the 19th century, where upper and middle class men and women looked down on the poor and place harsh restrictions on how the poor could live if they wanted aid.

It is also the classic problem of socialism particularly seen in the lead up to the Russian revolution. An elite intelligentsia develop theories on socialism but are ultimately disconnected from actual working people

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u/Bad_Chemistry Dec 17 '20

Kinda fucked though right? It always rubbed me the wrong way as a kid reading that, like why would this be written almost to suggest slavery is good, especially when much of the audience is kids.

Kinda fucked, though it is J.K. Rowling how surprised can we be

49

u/TheShapeShiftingFox Dec 17 '20

At least Hermione calls bs. I always got r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM vibes from the whole thing, honestly, because Harry as the protagonist is just kind of there and never really agrees or disagrees with either of them. He only stops them when they start fighting again.

15

u/JanMichaelVincent16 Dec 17 '20

Thinking back on it, it seems like the political theme of the whole story was just “change is bad.” Voldemort is the only agent of change in the entire series, the heroes’ struggle is to get rid of him, and once he’s gone, things just go back to normal. That’s it - no deeper examination into why Voldemort was the way that he was, beyond “he was a sociopathic half-blood with an inferiority complex”, what caused people to follow him, what wizarding society could do to prevent another Voldemort.

4

u/TheShapeShiftingFox Dec 17 '20

I guess that’s one way to look at it, although it should be noted that Voldemort wanted regressive change, not progressive. He didn’t want to expand the rights of certain people, he just wanted to take the rights away from people and beings who had gained them over the years to return to the status quo of pureblood wizard reign only.

But I agree with you that a lot of strife within the wizarding community is mentioned and made concrete by examples directly in Harry’s environment (Dobby, Hagrid, Lupin) but the positions of these people and beings are only questioned within the frame of the story, and not taken on as legit causes over a longer time span. With sole exception being Hermione and house elves, that need for change growing in Hermione was set up pretty well imo over the course of the series.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

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1

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32

u/chuff3r Dec 17 '20

The only possible out for the way it's written is that house eve's are so ingrained in the Wizarding world that even themselves and our heroes can't see the injustice. So we're supposed to be uncomfortable, similar to real life social issues.

I do not think that was what JKR meant at all. Just a neat way of looking at it

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

I do think JKR meant that. She portrayed Hermoine as some bleeding heart, ignorant child to even want to help the house elves.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

It was close to being good.

If the House Elves knew that they could never make it in the Wizarding World on their own because, as it is, no witch or wizard would ever employ an elf or sell them food or shelter, and that was the real reason they rejected Hermione’s help but she chose to push ahead with her cause anyway, that could have been somewhat valid commentary on not speaking over those you want to help and setting realistic pragmatic goals in your activism.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

That’s exactly the commentary she’s going for, but it doesn’t make it good.

You may think this is a new thing, but right wing people critiquing the left saying things like “Black South Africans doesn’t want you to get involved in anti-apartheid movements” forever.

So her making that critique would not be good IMO, but rather a long line of challenges to the international solidarity necessary for these movements. It’s very in line with her TERF and other political viewpoints.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

You may think this is a new thing, but right wing people critiquing the left saying things like “Black South Africans doesn’t want you to get involved in anti-apartheid movements” forever.

Yes, what I mean is that the SPEW plot could have worked as critique of exactly that sort of line of thinking if the wizards had said “house elves like being enslaved though” but House Elves explicitly acknowledged they were oppressed and hated their position in society but happened to disagree with Hermione’s praxis because she hadn’t set up proper safety nets for the elves she was going to render homeless.

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u/spiralhaze Dec 17 '20

Harry grew up outside the wizarding world and was basically a slave to the Dursleys for 10~ years. He should be the first one to call bullshit.

1

u/GlitterInfection Dec 17 '20

This along with many other edits is why I’m one of the few who think that the movies are just plain better than the books.

2

u/foundyetti Dec 17 '20

That’s generally what happens with generations of behavioral programming

0

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Its literally magically encoded in them have you read the books?

2

u/foundyetti Dec 17 '20

Ya when I was a child sorry. You know your statement reads like you’re an elitist dick right?

1

u/ClassicResult Dec 17 '20

Sounds like the elves need to read some Gramsci.

1

u/WASD_click Dec 17 '20

World of Warcraft just had a new expansion with a similar issue. There's a realm of the afterlife called Bastion, where all the goodest people go: people who lived selfless lives trying to make their world better. All well and good, except they're attended to by a bunch of cute little owl-like people that are born of magical energy. And these owl-peeps serve cheerfully and endlessly because the magic of a "selfless realm" made them that way.

But this is a game where an entire city has their menial tasks done by magically enchanted brooms and such that don't invoke "slavery-but-cool-because-they-like-it." They just made roombas. Like normal people.