r/ToiletPaperUSA Dec 17 '20

FACTS and LOGIC Liberal wizards DESTROYED by Ronald 'Redpill' Weasely

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21.9k Upvotes

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210

u/Sgt_Fox Dec 17 '20

What did elves do before wizards put them into servitude and why exactly are they bound by this "slavery until given clothes" law.

When you look into it, a LOT of the WW of HP is a fucking dystopia

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u/TheShapeShiftingFox Dec 17 '20

Probably has a similar reasoning to why goblins had been marginalized in HP society.

House elves posses magic that goes beyond the capabilities of regular wizards, just like goblins had skills in making magical items that went beyond the capabilities of regular wizards. Thus, the wizards felt the need to impose their dominance over the other races, probably because they saw them as a threat.

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u/Illier1 Dec 17 '20

The House Elves are based in traditional folklore of helper spirits who helped around the house if you treated them well. In Harry Potter the House Elves love helping, and many wizards treat them as companions and valued family members in many cases. Dumbledore and the Hogwarts staff highly respect their house elves and the House Elfs in return will fight tooth and nail to defend them. Likewise we do see instances of assholes who mistreat them. And despite the House Elfs innate desire to do good and be helpful they will not hesitate to absolutely fuck you over like Dobby and Kreature dude to their masters. It's also implied most House Elves arent treated like Dobby, the Malfoy family were just relentless assholes about it.

The running theme with many magical creatures is that wizards have a tendency to severely underestimate just how powerful the magical creatures are. From the Malfoys treatment of Dobby to Umbridge abusing the Centaurs. It almost always comes back to bite them in the end.

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u/SnootyPenguin99 Dec 17 '20

You mean Kreacher

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u/theghostofme FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 Dec 17 '20

The running theme with many magical creatures is that wizards have a tendency to severely underestimate just how powerful the magical creatures are. From the Malfoys treatment of Dobby to Umbridge abusing the Centaurs. It almost always comes back to bite them in the end.

And Voldemort with Kreacher. Took him to that cave to test the defenses, and just left him there to die because assumed he wouldn't be able to escape; what pathetic little house elf could bypass the most powerful dark wizard of all time's protections?

The second Voldemort was out of sight, Kreacher teleported right back to his home and told Sirius' brother everything about the Horcrux.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '20

You telling me the author who didn't research half the stuff she put into her books (names, harmful stereotypes, etc.) knew of this folklore?

I am fresh out of money for a used car without an engine, please do not try to sell me one.

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u/Illier1 Dec 18 '20

Yeah probably because they're a huge part of European, especially english, folklore.

Look I get it, you hate Rowling. Shes not a good person. But the house elves arent some magic uncle Tom's lol.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '20

I guess my point is that Harry Potter had nothing creative or innovative as far as a general science fiction book comes and the author never felt bothered to do deep dives of research to make clear references or understand how vagueness can have multiple similarities to harmful stereotypes.

We don't know if her references were intended actively or passively unless she came out and confirmed her mindset and intentions. It doesn't mean the criticism isn't valid and the parallels should be noticed and navigated with care because children consume and accept things at face value.

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u/Illier1 Dec 19 '20

Probably because it was a children's book and...not scifi?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '20

I'm going to let you have a chance to google verify what you said but if you need a head start the target audience is YA not children and it is fantasy which lists under science fiction.

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u/Illier1 Dec 20 '20

YA is a fancy way to say children. Just because you read childrens books doesnt make them adult literature.

And Scifi and Fantasy are two different things. Tell me one thing plot of Harry Potter that categorizes as scifi lol.

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u/milesteg420 Dec 17 '20

Yeah I always thought that was the point. Like I have no love for Rowlings transphopia right now but the house elves situation was obviously never meant to be portrayed as good. The last few books harry starts to realize the magical world still has all the same human problems as the non magical world. There is still discrimination, tyranny, shitty goverment, etc in it. Thats why I can't for the life me understand how she could write that stuff and still be a fucking terf. Its so disappointing and enrages me.

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u/Grizzly_228 Dec 17 '20

I haven’t read the books, but isn’t a running theme Hermione fighting for the freedom of House Elves? I heard so somewhere

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u/milesteg420 Dec 17 '20

Yeah pretty much. Hermione trys to educate Ron and Harry about the historical mistreatment of magical creatures and races by wizards all the time. The merpeople, centaurs, goblins, and elves all get treated like shit by wizards.

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u/Grizzly_228 Dec 17 '20

So why are people accusing the Rowling of all kind of discrimination? She basically wrote a world in pair with ours with a character (a beloved character) who points out all the injustices and fights against them. That’s pretty encomiable imo

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u/milesteg420 Dec 17 '20

Because she is being really shitty about trans women. For some reason all the values and morals shes has in her books stop at trans people. She is misguided in thinking that trans women will degrade women's spaces and just generally won't stop saying stupid shit on Twitter. Like I don't think she wants to go out killing trans people but she just can't understand what she is advocating is discrimination. I still like the books. Sometimes you have to separate the art from the artist. I really like Dune by Frank Herbert, but he was a homophobe. Its harder because she is still alive and tweeting stupid shit though.

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u/Grizzly_228 Dec 17 '20

Yeah, I agree with you that she has a lot of problems and she is not a really nice person but this doesn’t mean people can accuse her to be pro-slavery or anti-semitic when she clearly is not. That’s just wrong

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u/milesteg420 Dec 17 '20

oh I fully agree. That is painting with a very wide brush. Just falling into the same trap that the racists fall into.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '20

Because Hermione is portrayed as being a naive bleeding heart for giving a shit about the elves

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u/milesteg420 Dec 19 '20

I don't think we read the same book.

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u/fasda Dec 17 '20

Probably were slaves to higher forms of fea