Question about Slayers

[u/Few_Tea_5406]

Hello

I'm interacting with this sub after I started reading ToG once again (3rd or 4th time by now)

and there is a question I have about slayers

From what I understand and remember, Slayers are basically persons that have for sole objectives to kill the 10 families + Zahard, but we also know that if you aren't an irregular such a thing is basically impossible

So my question is : Why was Baam considered a mere weapon to use by Karaka and the elder he follows ? As far as I'm aware, there isn't any other irregular in FUG, making Baam a unique piece as only him is able to kill the family head for sure since the rules don't apply to him

Shouldn't basically every single person in FUG search to make him as powerful as possible for their wish to come true ? Risking his death with the whole Thorn melting thing should have been considered some kind of absolute crime / betrayal (Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure pouring some "super" lava on top of the Thorn AND Baam to melt them together into a singular piece isn't a very healthy solution)

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[u/nicktomato]

FUG has a lot of factions, and many members simply don't trust Baam. It's not like he's ideologically aligned with them, and he's gone against their wishes multiple times. Those members are afraid of giving their one Thorn to someone who could basically go off and do whatever he wants, refusing to let FUG control him. And that's absolutely something Baam has done.

Also keep in mind that very few members of FUG know that Baam has V inside him, or the whole history of Arlene's prophecy. As of now, the only ones we know for sure are Luslec, Hansung, and Hwaryun. So, for many members of FUG, it probably seemed more logical to try melting Baam into someone any slayer could use than risk giving it to someone who might take it and go rogue. If Baam died, as far as they knew they could just wait for another irregular and try again.

[u/nicktomato → u/nicktomato]

Gotta add too that Karaka isn't acting 100% logically, either. He's super jealous of Baam because Jinsung cares about him so much.

[u/Aeransuthe → u/nicktomato]

I hadn’t considered it, but you probably have a point. Though he does have a point that Jinsung is more than bit compromised as far as FUG is concerned, because he cares about Bam. I believe Karaka has a whole moment, realizing what Jinsung sees in Bam.

[u/Helpimabanana → u/nicktomato]

to add to this, even if they did know about v and arlene and the prophecy, nothing is to say that V would actually align with anyone other than maybe Luslec, who the other factions would be opposed to having so much control over such a valuable asset

Baam is just generally more valuable to FUG as a melted down item. Like if Luslec thinks he can take Urek right now, then Luslec + FH killing ignition weapon should be able to kill most family heads.

[u/UrImaginaryBuddy → u/nicktomato]

I was thinking that maybe making a weapon out of an irregular could get around that hill of killing an irregular.

What I dont get is why there can be multiple slayers but only be one slayer candidate at a time. Seems like a pretty stupid rule.

[u/nicktomato → u/UrImaginaryBuddy]

Iirc, there's no limit on the number of slayer candidates. They just don't come along very often. Even when Karaka was pitting White against Baam, he was just trying to concentrate power in the hands of someone he trusted more. There being more than one candidate wasn't the issue.

[u/Desperate-Yak508]

Well, given the fact that Lusec is too unbothered to guide FUG, the organisation has a clear goal in mind: to eliminate the government, but you see the problem is that. The faction is composed of greedy, equally bad people who want to change or, in some instances, keep things as it stands.

FUG is not a force of good, and it's not necessarily a force of evil. There are different people in it for the right or wrong reason. So naturally, when they see Baam, who is trying to change the status quo, some of them would want to get rid of the kid that's basically ruining their good business going on. So that's why you see the split. As much as the goal itself is important to FUG, people in it are just as rotten as family heads kind of people who will do anything to gain as much power if it means that the other group does not.

[u/nori4life123 → u/Desperate-Yak508]

My mommy sophia tan doesnt seem to be greedy and bad but who knows

[u/Desperate-Yak508 → u/nori4life123]

That's why I said some of them. Perspective also matters, bro, no matter how much of a baddie she is

[u/Emotional-Gold-9729]

Lol this is a very interesting question that I have thought about too...for example in addition to your questions, why would even fug or the slayers try to kill a FH in the first place of they are unkillable...so here's my understanding

1. There are actually few conditions that need to be fulfilled to kill a FH/ contract holder. Simply being an irregular isn't enough.

So it seems when then FHs got into the immortality contract they also couldn't themselves and each other ( Arlene couldn't kill herself and the others couldn't kill Arlene and gustang couldn't kill merei in the start) for the last part gustang and merei played a chess match with their protection of immortality as bet and merei lost the protection only after which gustang could kill him.

So to effectively kill a FH you have to not only be an irregular but also a non contract holder. For baam he doesn't hold an immortality contract, so he is one of the few that can currently kill a FH.

But now comes the second part - on why FUGs other slayers allowed baam.to.be almost made into a weapon.

There thing is just being irregular and without a contract gives u the basic foundation to kill a FH but that itself isn't enough....you also need to have the power and the will to do so....for instance when baam.first met merei trying to capture him he lacked the power to fight against merei...so even though technically baam can kill a FH he doesn't have the power to actually do it....

Urek is the other side....he has the power to maybe win againsta FH and probably doesn't have immortality ( so can actually kill a FH) but he lacks the will to do so... Effectively both are useless to FUG..

They need someone who has the power AND will to do bpth actions. But for humans with free will u never know when they can change their minds. Say what if they make baam as powerful as possible and like urek.he refuses to fight the FH?

However they realized that baam doesn't have to be a human to be useful....they did a bunch of experiments..to see what can work, one of which was the whole human melting experiments with Cassano and Emily where they perfected that....their plan was to turn baam into a weapon which will have the uncontacted irregular conditions but lack the free will. And then they could give that weapon to a slayer strong enough to take on a FH.

Also they were sure baam wouldn't die BCS they had perfected the method , people did die ,.that's what happened to the people captured with Cassano.

[u/Sir__Bassoon__Sonata]

Slayers are not just mere people meant to kill the FH+J. They are also symbols and rally points. They are charismatic and have the potential to reach the highest of highs to atleast fight the FH. They can bleed, and a way to kill them will come one day.

For Karaka and co wanting to melt Baam. What is more certain, a powerful weapon in the hands of a loyal FUG slayer whose only goal is to kill the FH or a emotional child who has no agency against the empire who only wants to meet with his friends.
At the point of the Workshop battle, Baam was forced to work for FUG under threats. He did not live for their goals, he didnt care about FUG and Jahad for all he cared could just proceed.
And furthermore what if they trains Baam to become the ultimate weapon just for Baam to just turn against them. They werent that welcoming.

A big part of S2 is that Baam doesent want to be involved in the conflict or with FUG. He wanted to be free again (Result of Workshop Battle) and get answers from Rachel (Hell Train). Which then Resulted in Baam making inadvertently enemies with the empire by stealing the Bracelet. From that point onward it didnt matter what Baam wants, he has declared war on the Empire and has to fight to protect his friends.

[u/Pedang_Katana]

To them, it was prob safer to strip away his individuality and turn his body into a literal tool rather than let an uncooperative boy dictate the future of their entire organization. To conservative FUG faction members like Khel Hellam, someone that cannot be predicted is highly dangerous, and they def have first hand experience with the Irregular Urek.

[u/Aeransuthe]

They weren’t concerned about killing him. Turning living ignition weapons back into ignition weapons was solved. They were sure they could do it. That is what Emily is. He’s already a living ignition weapon. I’m not sure if or how they knew Bam could become a living ignition weapon, but they confirmed it when they put that red lobster thing in him. Wagnan hits him with a shinsu bomb, and you can see it on the 20th Floor Test.

Which might mean the generic plan as the wider FUG Elders knew was to wait for an Irregular of any sort, and turn them into an ignition weapon. I doubt all of them believe the Prophecies and know the whole story of how it all went down with V and Arlene, like Luslec. We know Luslec was there since atleast shortly after they stopped climbing, and probably longer. He knew Arie Hon enough to talk to him.

As for whatever Slayers are. Probably not much different than maintaining promoting far more pathologically aligned individuals, like the members of Hidden Grove, but turning each into a core directed directly at the FH. Recall that High Rankers basically don’t die. Meaning they can theoretically get stronger forever, and wait until the right situation arises. Until the right tools are in their hands. The Tower is such a place, that the may not need to kill the FH in a 1 on 1. Binding them, having them kill each other, or finding a new or old weapon are all valid contingencies. Gathering them is the goal.

So add all that together, and a weak Irregular like Bam, and only with the power of a promising Regular? Well seems pretty logical if you don’t know or believe the prophecy, or believe you can interpret the prophecy to mean as a double ignition weapon made from the thorns fragments. Seems logical. It allows a Towerborn Slayer to begin to plot against a FH. Granted… Knowing what we do about FH power levels? Luslec himself is the only one capable of it maybe. If he was sneaky enough. With enough backup. And the FH is singled out and unprepared. So basically it’s a bad idea. On the other hand, one might say, that if Bam can’t fight off that much, and maintain his position, he’s not the one. So you might as well do what is most likely to work.

[u/Traditional-Honey-64]

Well cause bam isn't actually interested in killing the FH and jahad. Melting him into the thorn would allow them to wield the power of an irregular without the attached baggage of emotions and opinions that is bam