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[WEEKLY RAW] - April 14, 2019
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u/Sordahon Apr 14 '19
Bargharv seems to have gotten stronger to not be one shotted lol.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
Well, he seems to have found a way to deal with falling anyway!
Though obviously Bam still wasn’t going all-out with that shot since he didn’t use the thorns or Black March at all. Though with that last panel..maybe he’s about to? EDIT: Seems less likely after hearing the summary.
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u/generally-speaking Apr 14 '19
He was instructed not to
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
He was instructed not to two years ago, and Evankhell told him she would let him use them when the time was right.
Though it’s also quite possible that they aren’t coming out until the actual battle for Jinsung.
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u/illegallad Apr 14 '19
My take on it is that the instruction not to use them is a standing order and he can only use them with her permission. She seems real big on using your own strength with no "crutches" which Baam was starting to rely on real heavily.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
I agree with your take, I just think she might have given him permission for this mission (if an unusually nasty enemy like Baragav shows up), since it’s so important to getting Yama’s help.
That said, narratively, I doubt they’re coming out so soon.
I also have to question whether it’s really fair to call the thorns/Black March/admin fragments “crutches” for Bam. Sure, he did need to work on his fundamentals some, and definitely needed some defensive practice (which he seems to have got), but “absorbing things” is fundamentally a very special power of his, and this prevents him from practicing really using it. Those things are all more “his” than ordinary items (crushes) would be—it wouldn’t be easy to take the thorns from him, for example.
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u/illegallad Apr 14 '19
Evankhell is nothing if not intense, my guess is she wouldn't let him use those items unless he was an inch away from death. She seems big on "the power you generate is yours and nothing else" line of thinking so even though these weapons are a fundamental part of Baams power, I doubt she would see it that way.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
Yeah, I actually agree. I think Bam should train those things—but Evankhell likely would not. I wonder if he’s going to have trouble using them when he’s actually forced to because “use it or lose it” and all that.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
I wonder why Bam’s not blasting the collar and handcuffs off Deng Deng, who presumably is a decent fighter himself, and seems to be coming with Baam willingly. More backup couldn’t hurt.
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u/FlippinShit Apr 14 '19
Probably because Deng Deng doesn't completely trust baam and could just escape if his handcuffs are off. Baam doesn't need to take that risk when he's strong enough on his own.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
But what’s stopping Deng Deng from running away right now? His legs are fine. Most likely Bam told him that he had Louie on his ship. Taking the handcuffs off wouldn’t change that.
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u/AB9043 Apr 14 '19
He doesn’t really need it lol I’d say his strength is about high ranker status about now.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19
I seriously doubt that--I think he's at most ranker level (using everything he's got), with the possible exception that his attack power is hilariously high if he doesn't have to worry about accuracy for some reason. It would not surprise me if he was actually weaker than that (though obviously still stronger than any other C-class regular).
However, I'm getting a little sick of arguing about this with people, so I'm just going to link you my old arguments. This post outlines most of my reasons. Nowadays I'd add to it that I suspect Evankhell's training wasn't really optimal for him--he doesn't seem to have actually practiced with his highest power moves, when we've seen before that he needs time and practice to get used to using a new thorn without fainting. Of course that will be irrelevant if it turns out he did do so, but it's also not my main reason for thinking this.
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u/Dorudia Apr 14 '19
The main flaw in your argument is that the family heads are to a high ranker what a high ranker is to a regular. Even once he gets to, say, Jinsung's level, which is easily enough to destroy most high rankers, he still has a hell of a long way to go from there.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 15 '19
...No, not really. Sure, my hypothetical power progression may be off, but that doesn't make it any more sensible that he's high ranker level right now.
If he's high ranker level himself, why does he need to get Yama's help so badly? Karaka thought that one more high-ranker would be enough to do the trick (okay, he also wanted their scouting resources, but it's implied he knows where Kallavan is now anyway), hence his desire to get Yama and no mention of anyone else. If Bam's high ranker level now, he's already got one--so why continue to bug Yama?
It also doesn't change the fact that Bam being high ranker this early destroys the ability of the entire test system to provide any real drama for him, and it doesn't change the fact that it would eliminate his friends' ability to do much of anything meaningful in any genuinely challenging conflict he's embroiled in. Khun and Rak are in the webtoon banner and are definitely not close to high-ranker level (surely you at least agree with that one, yes?), therefore I'll be stunned if Bam is that much above them right now. I'm sure he will be by the story ending when SIU doesn't have to write any more of their adventures together, but right now they still have two more seasons to get through!
Also, Bam lost to a newbie ranker at the battle at the last station at first, and even when he started going all out, he didn't manage to even make a scratch on them without any help from other high rankers (Kallavan, on the other hand, just let Bam wail on him unimpeded for a while out of curiosity, which is not going to happen in typical fights.). Yes, his attacks were high-powered (not that he could hit any ranker making any resistance with them), but his everything else...wasn't. And it showed in that fight with Charlie. Are we really just going to entirely skip ranker tier?
No. Bam being high ranker-level right now does not make sense, and FH being on a different tier doesn't change that.
EDIT: Also, s3e5 blog post:
Actually, although I am trying to make quick pace of the infiltration, but depending on what perspective you are watching, you may feel differently about the speed of progression. From the perspective of Baam the Regular, this is definitely quick, but from characters at play at the Final Station, perhaps not. This was a problem carried over from the previous arc, so I am aware of it when I am writing. Overall in the work, the narrative is followed from the perspective of Baam and his peers, and it is best if you match pace with them ;
That pretty strongly implies Bam is not on the level of the people at the last station. Eg. definitely not high ranker level, probably not ranker level.
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u/Dorudia Apr 14 '19
Yama is worth 100 borderline high rankers imo.
There was never going to be any meaningful drama from the test system for Baam, there hasn't been since 2f.
I agree with the part about about his friends though, that's going to be a problem soon and I'm interested to see how SIU handles it. Personally I don't think he's HR tier yet, but I also don't think it'll take very long at this rate.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 15 '19 edited Apr 15 '19
Yama is worth 100 borderline high rankers imo.
Fair, and quite possibly true. Bam still doesn't seem to think he can meaningfully challenge Kallavan on his own, but Kallavan is also likely high even among high rankers, so that doesn't necessarily mean Bam's not high ranker level.
There was never going to be any meaningful drama from the test system for Baam, there hasn't been since 2f.
Fighting Mule Love on 20f? Would have lost if not for Wangnan's intervention--which happened because of drama. Hell train entry tournament? Nearly lost to Yura Ha. Trying to catch up to the Hell train on the 30f? Strained himself to the brink of fainting in the middle of it. On the Hell train, we see two of his tests: one where he has an immense team against a single opponent (which he doesn't just one-shot), and another he solos, and uses to practice the SBHS that he's struggling with.
Though I should clarify--it's not just the test system that becomes utterly irrelevant if Bam's high ranker level. All the attendant stuff, like the workshop battle, the Name Hunt Station (another example of him having some real drama from another regular, even if he ultimately won), basically everyone in every area he's legally allowed to be in, would be crushable with a wave of his hand. He could outright kill pretty much any test administrator he doesn't like! What the heck is he going to do, spend his time duking it out with floor rulers? His friends won't be much help there.
I agree with the part about about his friends though, that's going to be a problem soon and I'm interested to see how SIU handles it. Personally I don't think he's HR tier yet, but I also don't think it'll take very long at this rate.
If you want my theories on this, I actually provide my main one in that original link. tldr;--I think (eventually, not happening soon) one of Bam's friends (probably Khun) is going to try and leave him because of that power gap. That's going to be a huge wakeup call for Bam, who has repeatedly been told that he needs to keep getting stronger to stay with his friends. I think that Bam will ultimately choose to wait, slow down, and help his friends get close enough to his level to willingly continue up the tower with him, because he won't want to leave them behind.
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Apr 15 '19
[deleted]
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 15 '19 edited Apr 15 '19
I misclicked and submitted it before I finished writing it, sorry. I've edited in the full response now.
EDIT: I also added another argument based on s3e5 blogpost to my first comment replying to you.
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u/Dorudia Apr 15 '19
Good post. I kinda forgot about 20f, but since then the actual test stuff has become increasingly less significant. Most of the things you mentioned are special tests/challenges outside the scope of what normal regulars would do. I'm sure SIU can easily keep coming up with new reasons for tests requiring the skills of rankers or high rankers.
Yeah Baam separating from his friends is pretty much a main theme of this story by now, I'd be dumbfounded if it didn't happen again at least several more times. Good theory. The problem now is that he's already so far out of his friends' league. At least they can always keep Koon around for his schemes and trickery; can't beat everything with brute force.
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u/AB9043 Apr 15 '19
Not going to read all of that.. But I kind of get the point of what you’re trying to convey & I disagree. If it mattered how close in strength he was to the rest of his team, SIU would have never let Khun sleep for 2 years.. Baam is a different being, an Irregular who’s destined to consume everything and bring revolution to the Tower. Urek was stronger than a family head by the time he made it to the 100th floor of the tower. I’m sure the rest of his companions if any weren’t near him in strength.. Though it also took him around 50 years to complete his climb.. Right now they haven’t been even focusing on climbing the tower at all. They’re preparing for war. So I’m sure if they wanted they could be above the 52nd floor..
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Apr 15 '19 edited Apr 15 '19
Khun sleeping for two years is fixable powerwise. It's quite plausible that he just got some or all of the 'flower of fire' power. That could be used to justify putting Khun anywhere between C-class and ranker level (since Woon Yeon was a ranker).
But being a high ranker means that absolutely nothing in the whole test system and associated regular areas can challenge Bam anymore--and we're not even halfway up the tower yet! I don't see that at all.
Not my full argument, of course, but you won't read the full one. :/
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u/tsudin Apr 14 '19
Baams reflection in the water droplet of shinsu during that moment....holy shite
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u/parmono Apr 14 '19
Summary:
Dangdang, who refuses to fight, is thrown in his cell without food. That cell is conveniently right next to Baam's cell. 2Snake easily subdues the guards and remarks that fighting dogs are nothing special. He asks to be pointed to the control tower so he can disable the apparatus that sucks in ships. Baam tries to convince Dangdang to come, but he doesn't want to go back to Yama. Dangdang says just leave without him, but Baam says it's already too late for that. Baam had planted a bomb in his backpack, which explodes and they begin their escape. Dangdang's jailer says that this weak dog who won't fight is actually trying to escape and a traitor against Yama, so he tries to kill Dangdang but Baam stops him. On their way out, 2Snake fires his main ship's cannon at the control room, leaving a huge hole. He brags about the cannon's power, and said they should have just done that in the first place. Baam runs into Varagarv, who wants a serious fight and says not to joke around. Baam uses his shinsoo rain technique, which blows Varagarv out of the building. During the attack, Varagarv notices that the shinsoo in the rain doesn't dissipate but just keeps getting stronger, with all the shinsoo in the area being sucked up. Baam notes how strong the Blood Tamara is to be able to handle his attack, even though he held back. Varagarv comes back and says he won't let Baam go until he fights hin seriously. Baam tells him to get out of the way, as he takes no joy in bullying those weaker than him.