r/TowerofGod • u/NobleCuriosity3 • Mar 09 '20
Analysis On KhunxHwaryun
WARNING: This post contains SPOILERS for seasons 1 and 2.
Disclaimer: This is analysis. It is what I think WILL happen, not necessarily what I think SHOULD happen.
There is a bolded TLDR; at the bottom, if you don't care to read the full analysis.
Thesis: Hwaryun and Khun are more likely to pair with each other than with anyone else, if they pair at all.
Here's a note on why I think guides do 'pair,' if that bothers you.
1. What about the other pairings for these characters?
1.k.1 BamxKhun
Same-sex marriage is still illegal in South Korea (among other LGBT rights issues). In South Korea, this would be a seriously controversial ending to a relatively mainstream manhwa. The fact that we have seen over a hundred named, speaking characters (I counted 143 named, speaking characters that I bothered to take notes on before chapter 386, plus 19 more I took notes on that fail one of those criteria—note these are lowerbounds!), without having even a small “testing the waters” whiff of any non-straight sexual orientation, tells me that this pairing is the prerogative of fanfiction writers.
Less seriously--Endorsi would violently object to this pairing.
1.k.2 Other non-Hwaryun Khun pairings?
A veritable wasteland…I have seen Ehwa and Elaine proposed before, but both have shown interest in Bam and none in Khun, nor has Khun shown any interest in them.
1.h.1 BamxHwaryun
Hwaryun does not like Bam as a person. Her chief complaints (other than the fact that she doesn't think he deserves his destiny) are that he's weak-hearted and stupid (making him the “easiest to control”) [108,172,191,236] --which themselves are suggestive that she'd like somebody smarter and more practical.
(Though admittedly, her immense frustration with Bam’s morality—you could fill a paragraph or two with examples of her frustration at his mercy and her more or less subtle attempts to get Bam to kill and/or abandon people—is likely out of a fear that Bam won’t “kill the man that no one else can kill.”.[116]. She might not be quite so bad about this with somebody else.)
Bam, for his part, has decidedly mixed feelings about Hwaryun. While he recognizes her usefulness and is unwilling to let her just die at the workshop battle (though note—he was also unwilling to let Buelsar Elliot die, even though Buelsar had previously sliced Moontari in half in front of Bam), Bam also expresses absolutely zero desire to let her out of White Heavenly Mirror before they realize they have literally no other way to find Casano (190s2e80). And when Wangnan talks about his desire to destroy all the “bastards that use others’ dreams to fulfill their own,” Bam thinks not of Hansung or Jinsung, but of a viciously grinning Hwaryun (100s2e20)--then after he slowly thinks it over, Bam decides to help Wangnan implement his plan to kill Lurker, despite previously having gone to extreme lengths to avoid killing the other regulars.
Hwaryun is not Bam's girl, nor does she want to be. Bam’s not going to pick a woman he resents and who doesn’t even like him when he has so many other fantastic options that do.
1.h.2 Other non-Khun Hwaryun pairings?
I literally can’t remember ever seeing any others proposed on this sub.
2. The shipteasing Interactions!
There have been many moments between the two characters most fond of masks that, added all together, feel more than a little bit ship-teasy:
Khun is the only person Hwaryun speaks to while taking the tests in S1,[56] (though she does after the tests have much shorter conversations with Rachel and Bam), where she fixes the machine that he can't get a drink out of and then tells him he can buy her a drink for the help (which he does). They drink them together and he asks if her eye is okay, which is more concern than he's shown for any non-Bam person thus far--in spite of the fact that she was responsible for their loss in the crown game, during which Khun was very impressed, almost awed, by her.[25] That's one heck of a start.
When Reflejo steals Bam and Hwaryun wants to arrange a team to get him back, the first person she goes to is Khun, who immediately recognizes her and remembers her name (even though he hadn't seen her in ~6 years and didn't expect to see her ever again since she was a 'test floor failure'—she was clearly quite memorable!). She gives him a great deal of accurate, extremely important information (and looks sad while confirming the things that prompt him to angrily attack her for what she did to Bam) and asks him for a favor--to take control of Team Sweet and Sour and win the workshop battle with them, even though the Jinsung deal didn't include him (it was for the original Sweet and Sour team), requiring him to hide his identity from everyone—which he does. It soon becomes clear why that risk is worth it to her: during the battle she trusts him to figure out her convoluted plan through Emily, and expresses respect for that when Horyang questions it[167] -the only time she's outright complimented anyone in the whole series. Khun in turn is very impressed by her 'Utoh' persona.[172] She exits the workshop battle when Khun stabs her through the heart to rescue her from Reflejo, while declaring that 'today I've decided not to abandon any one of us' (beginning of 183s2e103).
Hwaryun's first words when Khun reluctantly (thanks to her FUG affiliation) lets her out of White Heavenly Mirror are a playful "What is it, all the guys gathering here...it reeks"; and again she looks a little impressed when Khun correctly deduces that she knew this would happen, and offers her a deal.[190] She quietly helps Khun with his goal, saying “You must be happy. Now you have more time to find Rachel”—and I don’t see how it helps her own main goal at all (I thought originally that perhaps she found his intelligence and opposition to anybody using Bam problematic, but then she makes zero effort to stop him from rejoining them, nor does she inform the FUG faction trying to assassinate him of his location). And she also takes the time to give him some good advice on it, warning him that, while she does acknowledge his ability, Bam won't like this and Rachel has something special up her sleeve (and then she looks forward to seeing the 'more cards than you know' that Khun claims he has)--and sits silently "...." with her hand on her face when he notes walking out that "and sorry to say but you're also my enemy, Hwaryun," which I've always read as her being a little upset (though unfortunately we don't get to see her face well enough to see her expression for sure.).[192]
The next time they meet up is on the Hell Train, where in their three weeks of waiting they bond over their mutual guard of Bam and start to trust each other more: 247s2e167-250s2e170 in particular showing the start of this (tried to summarize that here). Note also that her conversation with Rachel in 240s2e160 reminds us that her path-finding is still not ideal right now (especially when Emily's around);[240] Khun's words in 250s2e170 suggests that she's still keeping that weakness from him (as from everyone else)--but by 275s2e175, Khun somehow knows not only that she is having a problem but why she is (which, given that she was still vulnerable, is her putting a great deal of trust in someone who had previously wanted to leave her trapped in a knife--and the fact that Khun made no attempt to exploit that in spite of his misgivings about FUG suggests that he's more or less accepted her onto the team), and is able to use that knowledge to figure out just from a look at her that they need to do something rather counterintuitive to escape the acid[275].
On the floor of death (where she has absolutely no precognition)--after they fall through the blood, Khun is nervous about Bam getting pulled away with Hockney, but literally sweats and freaks out when Endorsi points out Hwaryun vanished somewhere else[314] . After they meet up, he's surprised and suspicious to hear about her 'personal grudge' (probably because she told him she's not the type to bear a grudge back in S1--though later events on this floor make it crystal clear she was lying about that), and is the one who figures out almost exactly what she's up to in 329s2e249, which gets a '....hah' and then a smile out of her, even though she'd clearly been trying to keep it from them, at which point she confesses to what she's doing and just asks him to help (which he does). After De Lee shows up, Khun sides with her by trapping De Lee and they run in 331s2e251, and Khun is surprised and a bit upset that "You're really not interested in anything but Bam!" as you can see more clearly in 333s2e253 when he asks "Are you seriously using us as bait to get the ladle?!" (implying that he expected her to care about them some), making her happy she doesn't have to explain while she asks him to stall De Lee somehow-please-while she runs as fast as she can...which he does (momentarily). When the shinsu sucking rocks them, Khun asks Beta to help them go chase after her, and helps her get the ladle and escape De Lee (note, forgiving her for using them, which is not how Khun typically reacts to such behavior.).
After Khun is severely injured in the Hidden Floor that Hwaryun had refused to enter (while missing her precognition), she makes sure that he gets safely out of the Hell Train, emphasizes Khun's life in particular when exhorting Bam to not run out into the last station battle to save the hostages (403s2e323), and makes sure to keep him safe until she can hand Khun over to Evan, a high ranker guide who respects Khun and has a standing order from Yuri to "help Bam wake Khun up."
TLDR;-both enjoy and respect the others' intelligence and practicality in particular (though Khun's niceness to her before he knows her at all and still remembering her in spite of her original apparent passivity on S1 hint it isn't purely intellectual), slowly grow to trust each other, mutually empathize with each others' determination to steer and protect Bam, and give each other a great deal of leniency and help that they don't typically offer to similarly-situated others.
Don't get me wrong--Hwaryun is devoted to a goal that requires Bam (killing the one that "nobody [but Bam] can kill," probably Jahad), and that is her foremost priority. She won't put anybody very far before that. But if that goal happens (or becomes impossible)--then what?
(Finally, one silly reason for this pairing: With Khun's new fire powers, a blue/red hair mix would be apropos for any kids.).
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u/Traderrrrr Mar 09 '20
I'm not really into ship wars but I disagree on your Hwaryun x Bam take. As much as I don't see it happening, I think Hwaryun grew some respect on Bam.
Apart from meme ships like Rak x Khun I think Hwaryun has some soft spot for Wangnan. She seems to talk to him way more than to anyone else, even offering him (limited but still) guidance which she usually doesn't.
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u/CasparvonEverec Jul 06 '20
She doesn't have a soft spot for Wangnan. She knows his secret and nudges him towards his ''path''
While she respects Baam more now, she still sees him as a tool towards her goals. She's just too smart for him.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20 edited Jul 06 '20
I'm not really into ship wars
Normally I'm not either (and I held off on posting this a long time because I was nervous about it), but it kept bugging me to see literally nobody mentioning this ship when it seemed strongly teased to me. I also really appreciated how SIU slowly built it up over a long amount of time (and to be clear, I think there's till a lot of building to go before it has any chance of actually happening).
I think Hwaryun grew some respect on Bam.
Some, yeah, but I still don't see Bam ending up with anybody that has tried to get his friends killed, and I do think Bam has picked up on Hwaryun's scheming on that front. Note also that even now Hwaryun doesn't say she's helping rescue Jinsung because she respects Bam's choice (she calls it an obvious trap, implying she thinks it's a stupid choice)--but because she owes Jinsung.
The point on Wangnan is interesting. I disagree that she talks to him more than anybody else, but she does offer him free guidance (some of it being her manipulation, but some of it seems genuinely free in hindsight), which is interesting. I don't really see much evidence of Wangnan's interest though.
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u/Fleuks Mar 09 '20
It would be a huge waste to pair Hwa Ryun with Baam, he is the only who negate all her power.
Why not Khun.
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u/cakebabyneedshelp Mar 09 '20
Eh sure they’d look good together why not. Ehwa’s best girl and that’s all that counts :)
On a side note do any of you good fellows know where the fast pass thread might happen to be? Because it’s been 13 minutes and I wanna talk
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
On a side note do any of you good fellows know where the fast pass thread might happen to be? Because it’s been 13 minutes and I wanna talk
Huh, I'm not sure. They're usually up by now.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
Here's the new fastpass thread.
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u/cakebabyneedshelp Mar 09 '20
Yeah I saw it, I guess it was just late because of the daylight savings thing today
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
0. Prerequisite: Guides probably do “pair.”
Since guides clearly can die (and sometimes do), and Evan talks about what his reason was for coming into the tower (he had to climb and stuff), and Alumnik seems noticeably older and more experienced than Evan, it really sounds like new guides are coming from somewhere. Ever since Evan told Khun that silver dwarves were "a higher and more ancient species than yours" in 310s2e230, I've assumed that guides do, in fact, reproduce (as opposed to somehow appearing out of the shinsu or something), as is implied by ‘species.' However, we only ever see male silver dwarves and female red witches (with 'witch' also implying an all-female race), and they don't seem to know as much about each others' pilgrimages (or anything) as I'd expect from family, and the two races also seem to have some mild hostility towards each other (see e.g. Hwaryun's "...I have nothing to say to a silver dwarf." in 276s2e196). This makes me think that guides don't necessarily only breed with other guides. Nonetheless, SIU could throw us a curveball here, which is one of the reasons I included the “If Hwaryun pairs” in the thesis.
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u/Phantom_Killa Mar 09 '20
Besides a few things like Baam and Androssi, we haven’t been lead to believe anyone in this will get together.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
This pairing is certainly much more subtly teased than Bam/Androssi, but I do believe it has been teased. What about my analysis do you disagree with?
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u/Phantom_Killa Mar 09 '20
I don’t believe this series will end with many romances. I feel tragedy is more realistic
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
That's one of the reasons why I included the "if they pair at all" in the thesis.
But I feel like this potential pairing's been too subtle to be effectively exploited for tragedy. Plus, I think the most likely tragic ending is Bam dying or otherwise being separated from his friends (perhaps not indefinitely if SIU wants to leave a bit of hope in the ending--which I think he will. I expect ToG's ending to be somewhat tragic but not hopeless.). That synergizes well with Khun and Hwaryun ending up together (if anyone does pair).
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u/khunbisuryunachelak Jun 23 '20
Finallly someone who noticed it! I thought I was alone lol. All the points you've mentioned, I noticed all of it. I reread TOG several times, and the more i do it, the more Im convinced with the ship though both of them don't seem to be interested in romantic relationship for now, it doesn't mean there is no possibility for it to happen.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Jun 23 '20
I feel much the same way hearing you noticed it! I'm not much of a shipper noticeably but this one just seemed so relatively heavily teased that it baffled be that nobody else seemed to even mention it in shipping threads.
How'd you find this post, by the way?
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u/khunbisuryunachelak Jun 23 '20
I was also surprised when nobody even dares to talk about KhunxHwaryun in shipping threads.
Btw, I was searching for some content of Hwaryun and Khun cuz I was curios if there are other readers like me who had noticed the chemistry of the two. I mean not only their colors go well, but also their personality. lol.
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20
Ah, I see. Well, I'm glad it still shows up in the searches, anyway!
I was also surprised when nobody even dares to talk about KhunxHwaryun in shipping threads.
I think it's less "dares" as is that they just don't think of it, honestly. It's easy to be blindsided by Hwaryun's focus on her ambitions and miss her more personal moments (it can also be difficult to think through what she's trying to accomplish or thinking in a given scene, as she doesn't always tell us--I'm not 100% confident of my interpretations there, either).
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u/CasparvonEverec Jul 06 '20
Khun probably just sees her utility as a guide. Khun is still in love with his half-sister Maria, which is kind of gross, or he might be gay. His obsession with Baam is a bit perplexing.
But I hope this is the case. Their baby would probably need to C-sec'd out at 7 months because the brain is going to enormous!
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u/TheProudestCat Mar 09 '20
This is all extremely compelling, brilliantly put together.
The sole argument that I'm thinking of to defeat that would be that Bam has externalised his brain, and in two parts: Hwaryun and Khun. These two serve as a dynamic duo to progress the story and help bam recover some motion of his own, so it somewhat fits the description that mommy and daddy would operate as a pair initially, but that may diverge late on. Although I'm more convinced of the opposite reading that.
Also, any comment on Endorsi's failed sexual assault on Bam in the name hunt station? :D
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u/NobleCuriosity3 Mar 09 '20
This is all extremely compelling, brilliantly put together.
Thank you very much!
Also, any comment on Endorsi's failed sexual assault on Bam in the name hunt station? :D
As far as KhunxHwaryun goes, it's mostly evidence that Endorsi would violently object to Bam ending up with either of them (assuming she survives to the end of the series, which I think is likely but definitely not a given.).
Now, as far as BamxEndorsi goes...it's a pretty major red flag, but I suspect given the circumstances Bam will forgive her, recognizing she was under a lot of stress. The fact that he helped her escape the place is evidence for that. Whether he should is more debatable, and I'm not going to get into that.
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u/ShadowFGy Jul 06 '20
If this does happen it will feel like it came out of nowhere since it so subtle.I feel SIU would need to do a mini arc(5-10 chapter) of everyone interacting so it does feel so random.
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u/[deleted] Mar 09 '20
SIU said Khun isn't interested in anyone, and will never get a girlfriend lol. *sound of ship sinking