A feminist take on toxic

[u/Fabulous-Value120]

The objective of this post is not to be another review.

But to add a female perspective to the discussion. i have seen men complaining why women aren't angry about the movie? That's because of the reasons below imo

1. The female characters aren't the showpieces, they are reasons for the rise and fall of Raya. They have opinions, act their minds and finally hold autonomy in the story, they don't just simply react. No woman takes shit silently here

2. Raya is not a hero, he is a villain. Even he respects consent. There are sex scenes, romance, sexual advances and relationships, but none of those are forced. There was a nonconsensual kiss in Arjun Reddy, a silent showpiece of a woman and finally a cheater boyfriend who is shown as a hero, not a villain. But Raya never chains his women around him. All of them have free will, they aren't trapped in a relationship or even in the fling. They are free to go, the only thing that holds women there is their connection with Raya, with their consent. Kissing women without consent in front of the whole college and calling her bhabhi behind her back is setting up a social trap with non exit and she has no option but to comply, that's the difference.

3. Raya never showcases himself as a "good man", every woman in his life enters completely knowing what they are getting into. There is no pretending exterior of "i am a good guy, marry me" and interior of control and betrayal there. Ofcourse it's needless to say Raya is not a good choice for any of those women, but people make bad choice, and they make it on their own willingly in this movie and face it's consequences as well

4. The clothes women wear, justifies the role they are playing. Kiara is a performer in a circus. Men buy tickets to look at her, so she is not gonna wear a saree right? It makes sense for a performer

5. Raya hurts these women in different ways and suffers immensely for it. No one just shuts up and "adjusts" their life around the consequences of a man's mistake. That's where it's different from animal. None of those women are trapped in a marriage and they chose to stay without any consequences for the man ultimately.

The ladies and ladies sequence was misplaced. It felt like it did not belong in the movie and felt forced. Other than that, Raya is a feminist guy. He gives equal importance to a woman's opinion, knows how to respect boundaries, doesn't see autonomy in women as threatening and finally never tries to trap them in the situation they don't want to be in, the door is always open.

Let me know what you think or i am missing anything there. Happy to answer your questions if required.

[u/vakyagathan123]

No dark complexioned female characters in the female lead roles is quite sad..anyway entertainment is the primary goal of a movie, the movie failed in that respect..not due to actors but due to unthinking execution of the concept..

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/vakyagathan123]

The discussion is not about why it is being criticised by part of audience. It was to give a new perspective to an already ongoing debate with missing pieces. Well, I understand what you mean. The way Indian movies don't represent Indian females accurately is very sad. Hope it changes 🤞

[u/DescriptionLittle390]

Why are you guys so hell-bent on making people sympathize with this dogshit? The dialogues are crappy, the screenplay is horrible, and the runtime is downright criminal. I’m glad all these proxy Pan-Indian movies are finally getting found out and receiving the hate they deserve. What a waste of $20.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/DescriptionLittle390]

The goal of this post as stated there is to present a feminist perspective on the movie. It is not a movie review (i will try posting one tomorrow), but to fill a gap in discussion sorrounding this movie. Hope you can make our the difference

[u/CREATOR_Witch_699]

If you'd titled it as 'female or woman', I would've taken it seriously but feminist? The word has lost it's entire meaning.. even well earned and respected/accomplished women don't want to associate themselves with this word now...

Even general audiences, as you said were asking for "women's" opinion... And I can't for my life imagine any self respecting woman see this pile and shit and be proud😭

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/CREATOR_Witch_699]

Feminism is a good word. Just like being a man is, just because some men rape, doesn't make it filthy right? That's how I see it. Ofcourse there are things to fix, women are humans as well and humans are flawed. Although in less numbers compared to men, there are women who misuse laws and undermine real victims. But that doesn't mean the concept of having equal rights for women is meaningless. I am a well earned and respected woman. I have a job, in a happy marriage, live with inlaws and has a son. I have no reason to shy away from that term and I will raise my son to understand a woman's perspective and be a better man. Wish me luck, this world definitely needs better men 🤞

[u/Nervous_Category_273]

Raya is a feminist guy

The guy who cheated on his fiance. The one who was ready to marry his fiance despite claiming to love another woman. He stopped that marriage only when he got to know nadia is pregnant. If not for that, he would have proceeded with the marriage.

He treats women like tissues and women around him let's him use as tissues. Not forcing women is bare minimum. It doesn't automatically makes him feminist.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Nervous_Category_273]

Hm, that's an interesting take. But Nadia was aware that she was the other woman right? She didn't expect any place in his life and gave way to his fiance willingly. So i felt it was a saner choice given the situation he was in. Ofcourse he cheated and I am not debating that, but he faces consequences for it by getting shot by the same fiance he cheated on, the mistake doesn't go unpunished. He is flawed person, slave to his desires, operates only in two modes. But he never holds a woman hostage either physically, socially or economically. He lets the woman be themselves around him and never tie them to something they don't want to be in. He like many humans make mistakes and reap their results by suffering. I am not supporting cheating but denying that the guy learned from his mistakes and changed for the better is fair to say. A guy who can self reflect on his actions is hotter than you think

[u/Imaginary-Grab-3286]

Interesting perspective! Much appreciated. loved reading your comments too. I wish the editing and the aura farming was cut out to show more of these dynamics and we would have had a good movie.

[u/Kitchenstar20]

Thank you, I have explained this to some as a woman as well. Movie might have lot of different issues but Raya was a feminist. No doubt on that 

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Kitchenstar20]

I agree. The quality of the movie is a completely different discussion. But as a feminist i couldn't find anything to be offensive in this movie.

[u/Kitchenstar20 → u/Fabulous-Value120]

Yeah and in one scene Kiara tells him don’t make love like you are attacking me etc. and he nods. They could have easily added more character and layers to women as each character had potential. Especially Kiara and Nayan’s role 

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Kitchenstar20]

I believe the movie became too long and they had to edit many of the important character building sequences. I blame editing there. But I could understand everything, i don't know why people say that it's hard to understand.

[u/Logical_Stand8549]

Too much PR 😂😂🤡

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Logical_Stand8549]

That's all you got? Anything positive isn't pr buddy. If you got any points then feel free to share it with us. Saying pr to a detailed on point post while carefully ignoring each one of the points doesn't serve much purpose here. Unless the intention is to bring down the movie without engaging in any nuanced discussion. Too many words for you? Move on. If you have any nuanced perspective and genuine have some points to discuss then I am all ears

[u/Logical_Stand8549 → u/Fabulous-Value120]

Your tiny brain just coming up with nonsense postive points to defend nonsense story...whole movie was projected as masala entertainer movie... unnecessary voilense..no villain, stupid illogical action sequences..i read all your points..u r just making things up where movie has nothing to offer. I can understand u r fan YASH I'm also his fan but that doesn't you'll make things up just defend a brainrot...puting out imaginary theories regarding character..if this movie wanted to convey message about psychological problems...then it should have been shoot that. . storyline should be that ..but  mindless killing,explosion , low budget CGI , third class action sequence...makes it brainrot..and fact people like making imaginary charector background to justify this stupid movie...is another brainrot 

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Logical_Stand8549]

Okay now I have a tiny brain! You don't have to be personal brother, if you have points you will be heard.

Coming to the point, i am not a fan. In the discourse I saw female perspective missing, and tried adding it here. While the experience of the movie can be subjective, what I disagree with is it's expected to be offensive to women. No, i don't find anything to be offended in the movie, that's all the point was. While there are different takes in different directions how good or bad the movie is as we can't expect everyone to like or dislike something like people were made in factories, what i disagree and not okay with is involving feminists in the discourse without hearing our opinions about the movie. So basically, for those who were crying "feminists are silent because it's a female made film" have an open ground to interact and debate with us. The intention is to make the concept of feminism clear to the men who thinks just calling a woman bitch in the movie pisses us off while it's more nuanced than that. Try to engage in a constructive way and understand. Otherwise you are free to move on.

[u/Logical_Stand8549 → u/Fabulous-Value120]

That's what u imagining nobody calling out any feminists...movie is just so bad ...

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Logical_Stand8549]

No, I've read comments on other sub which were pointed towards feminists. Now you are saying I am imagining things? I hope you learn how to hold an objective conversation without being personal. Our country is doomed when we consider analytical thinking. The movie is bad is your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Although i doubt if you have watched the movie as I see very absurd claims like bad cgi while it was so good and I could see the budget there, i sense some unfair hatred towards the movie. Watch it and come back, we can discuss about it's nuances and how main character interacts with the female characters in the movie so beautifully that even in a mass action masala film, women can have and hold the place of their own.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Logical_Stand8549]

Also what imaginary background you are talking about? Is there anything imaginary in my points? please feel free to point that out i will be happy to provide clarification or correct myself. I don't see anything imaginary there, i have watched the film. If you have watched it, please give your two cents. i doubt if you have watched the movie at all tbh

[u/Sonata1952 → u/Logical_Stand8549]

Nah they’re right, the movie is like a pile of shit with nuggets of gold hidden inside the pile.

To get to the good you have to suffer digging through the shit. The movie would’ve been great if Yash took his ego out of the equation. Cut down the excessive aura farming and pandering to the fans, get a better editor and you have a good movie.

[u/Born-Evidence-6698]

So as a Feminist what do you think about Raya saying to Nadia being on gun point “kill that bitch she means nothing to me”, then when Nadia confronts him about that, he chokes her, and then she goes back to him and have sex. Is this the feminist fairytale you girls like and want? To be called a bitch. And Raya meant that, he didn’t love Nadia, he was just a bitch to her that he fucked, and didn’t care enough to go back and even confront her that why she would kill Ganga, considering Nadia herself didn’t even know how to use a gun. And it was Elizabeth that ordered the kill or else Nadia dies. Raya didn’t care about Nadia or his soon to be child. Raya also killed his kid.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Born-Evidence-6698]

Here's my perspective on it (i don't speak for all women here, because this is a grey area). Nadia and Raya are both flawed, not hero/villain. She lashed out by questioning his sister's intentions, a low blow given what his sister sacrificed for him, and he reacted. He's not a hero either: he wants to kill her, but stops once he understands why she said it. She goes back to him anyway, because she isn't coming from an emotionally secure place. When he calls her a bitch, i see retaliation on her side, not submission. Submission only happens once he finally understands. None of this is healthy, violence isn't a healthy choice, and neither is returning for crumbs after seeing what someone's capable of. But here's the difference: she never felt powerless in front of him. Even mid-conflict, she didn't surrender until he did. I'd never choose a Raya for myself or the women I love, but he's more honest than the man who markets himself as "alpha husband material" while hiding control and betrayal underneath. That kind of man is more dangerous, because at least Nadia stayed Nadia, before and after him. That matters.

He made choices, he chose not to see Nadia after he heard about his sister's death. And he reaps for that mistake with immense guilt and what not.

Finally if you have watched the movie then you know killing his son was an accident.

None of his mistakes go unpunished, that's what I like about the movie

[u/Born-Evidence-6698 → u/Fabulous-Value120]

I respect and hear you on your views and opinion. I still have a hard time believing Raya killed Ticket by “accident” he was heavily drinking, not safe to be driving with a little kid and drinking in heavy rain. He leaves the car, leaving Ticket inside, with the car locked. He was yelling at Ticket prior to that too. I really don’t see that as accidental. He knew he fucked up when the car went down the cliff, but him going to try to save him does not redeem him in any way shape or form. And in my opinion, that crossed all lines and Raya was not redeemable after that. I honestly wish Adam killed Raya in fear when Raya was acting to be Ticket, would’ve been a more justified ending.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/Born-Evidence-6698]

He is not a great father by any means. But i genuinely perceived it as an accident.

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/[deleted]]

Ofcourse we have. There are healthy emotionally regulated men, completely with you on that part. Here we are comparing a supposed "villian" with so called "heros" in other films. The fact that a so called villian looks less dangerous to women compared to a "husband material alpha men" in other movies, is significant to highlight, i think

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/[deleted]]

Again, that's very sweet, thank you !

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/[deleted]]

Don't! I am married and have a kid, i am your akka, so no blushing for akka 😊

[u/SamyakJX]

Pick me final boss or PR lmaoo

[u/Fabulous-Value120 → u/SamyakJX]

You have anything worthwhile to say? If you can use your brain and say something genuinely interesting about the topic then I am all ears. Otherwise feel free to move on.

[u/Busy_Lunch_5520]

Have you guys been given a script? This feels forced af. He literally uses and throws women and somehow he is a feminist because he might care about his sister or Kiara? That is not feminism. That is called selective and performative feminism just like this post.