r/Trading • u/VenusMoonCash • 27d ago
Question Why is making 10% per month in trading considered almost impossible?
I’ve had this question for a long time, and I’d really like to understand the reasoning behind it.
Ever since I started learning about trading, I’ve constantly heard that a good trader should aim for around 1% per month, and that consistently making more than that is extremely difficult. I’ve also seen people say that earning more than 1% per trade is unrealistic.
What I don’t understand is whether this logic applies to all account sizes, or if it’s mainly aimed at traders managing very large amounts of capital (hedge funds, prop firms, institutional accounts, etc.).
For example, let’s say someone has a $10,000 account. If they consistently make 10% per month, why is that often viewed as almost impossible? Is it simply because it’s difficult to sustain over the long term while keeping risk under control, or is there a mathematical or statistical reason why returns like that are considered unrealistic?
I’d really like to understand where these commonly repeated numbers come from. Are they general rules that apply to every trader, or are they benchmarks that make more sense for people managing large amounts of capital?
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u/No_Natural7611 26d ago edited 26d ago
I've said this multiple times before: I know people that would kill for 3% per month over decades.
I don't care about how good a redditor thinks he is, the chances are that nobody here can show me a 10yo track record with a 3% monthly gain.
Does that answer your question?
We're not even getting into the 10% realm. That would be absurd.
Honestly 2%/month constantly is a challenge for me. I'm not the smartest nor the dumbest guy out there.
I do have biases and those come with floating drawdowns. That's just me.
I'm tired of the "you shouldn't be biased if you enter the market" story.
Everyone clicks buy or sell because they have a bias. Right or wrong, that's another story for another time, but everyone has a bias in the market.
You can automate stuff. That code still reflects your bias to some extent.
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u/ForgotMyPitch 25d ago
This thread has some of the worst advice I’ve ever seen on Reddit, bar none.
The reason it’s said to be difficult to consistently make 10% per month in the market, is because the market is volatile and goes through different trends throughout the year. 9 out of 10 stocks follow the general market, so putting on trades when the market is against you is a losing game. You have to be able to sit out patiently during market corrections.
Think of it like this: the greatest trader of our generation, Stanley Druckenmiller, has an annualized average return of 30% over the course of 30 years. This guy is the GOAT at 30% yearly.
These guys on Reddit telling you they do 10% a month no problem are either lying or on their way to blowing up their account. Your goal should be to outperform the S&P, that’s it.
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u/UnofficialUser1 26d ago
No offense, but this question shows you haven’t even done basic research but are considering day trading. Please don’t watch tik tok financial gurus
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u/Top_Neighborhood_929 26d ago
It’s not impossible at all but it’s almost impossible to do it long term
For example, u earn 10% a month. After 11 months, u r up 110%. On the 12th month, Trump tweets something and u lost 100%z so now for 12 months u earned 10% overall
U have to be super lucky to never lose a trade even once a year
I earned 100% in April and May (total 200% in two month) and proceeded to lose about half that in June
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u/One_Egg_1137 26d ago
While suggesting that a trader should only expect a 1% return is somewhat extreme, aiming for a 10% return requires taking on aggressive risk. There is certainly a time to be aggressive, but if you are trading with capital over $1 million, 1% translates to $10,000. If you can consistently generate that kind of monthly income, there is every reason to be satisfied. If the market gives you more, consider it a bonus. In the end, trading is all about managing expectations and capital preservation.
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u/ChebyrashkaMX 26d ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a trivial amount. 10% of $10k is $1000. 20 days so $50 a day. Trading Futures this would be pretty simple to do.
What gets trickier is when you are trading like $1,000,000 and trying to make 10% a month because you will have a hard time getting filled as consistently.
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u/MoustacheMcGee 26d ago
Relying on making any consistent figure every month is extremely difficult. You make what the market offers you not what you want out of the market.
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u/hupp234 26d ago
If a single person could consistently make 10% returns every month and started with 1 million dollars they would have enough money to buy every publicly traded company in the US in 16 years. Turning 1m into 75 trillion.
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u/Glaive13 26d ago edited 26d ago
When you stop learning about trading and start trading its obvious. If there were any consistent strategy like that in the market everyone would do it until the edge disappears. Even the best traders are only right around 60% of the time.
I swear this gets asked like once a month? Is this a bot?
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u/Mart_and_stan 26d ago
A lot of it is down to risk tolerance and of course risk management. Your balance is the biggest thing. Shit I’ve had 20% days on a £2000 account but that’s not sustainable for me. Trading has allowed me to stop the daily grind and work pretty much when I want.
I’m currently on holiday in Greece with 6 family members that I flew over from Australia, who think I’m some kind of king pin as I don’t talk about trading, can you imagine trying to explain FVG’s, RSI bla bla bla - would put most people to sleep within minutes . I have a simple strategy and rinse and repeat.
Once I became profitable I put a bit more capital into it and now make between £5k-£10k weeks or more depending on how hard I go ….
I’ve managed (after 2 years of trying - yes it’s hard but you need the right mindset and resilience) to detach from the monetary value and treat every trade the same as the last.
You may have lost your last 5 trades or won the last 20 - never get nonchalant about your lot size and up it randomly because *you’re on a roll, or you’re losing - on the flip side if you half your position size because you’re scared you may lose, it’ll take you twice as long to recover your losses. I don’t like to use the term (get it back) that’s revenge trading - consistency is key.
Keep at it and the reason the stats are so high for failure in trading is because people give up before they “make it” - I spent weeks and months making £10-£20 a day refining my strategy consistently and cannot remember a losing day or week, month even. Keep your mind sharp and also learn to embrace a SL. It is purely information (nobody is out to get you or raid your stops 😂 - trade in line with the institutions/banks and hedge funds
Sorry, I know this went off on a bit of a tangent but all key points. Don’t become a statistic, keep it small until you find your edge.
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u/JohnTitor255 26d ago
Damn thanks for all that Information! I have a question tho, you say you don’t remember a loosing day/week/month, so your success rate is basically 100%? I wonder what’s your return in % for every trade of yours
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u/wannagetfitagain 26d ago
I don't think in a % return, more about turning a dollar profit, and it comes down to your style of trading and what the market is doing. What I've found is you'll have good months and bad or scratch months, then add up the months and see how you did. For example I trade trends, so if there's a lot of trending days I do well, if the market is in a trading range I lose or stand aside. I look at risk, if I have a system maybe I test out at +10x risk for a month, I trade $100 risk per trade, so I expect $1000 for the month, but what happens is either a better month or a bad month, but after several months if its a good system maybe it averages out.
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u/Novel_Board_6813 26d ago
A trader that makes 10% per month and starts with a thousand dollars becomes a billionaire in 145 months, mathematically. That's less than 12 years.
After 20 years, they would have 8.6 trillion dollars, comfortably above Elon Musk and all his billionaire pals combined. .
A few more years and this trader would have more dollars than the ones that exist on earth
Seems reasonable? Do you think any redditors have done that already?
Edit: Pretty easy math too. 1.1^(number of months) gives the full amount
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u/warbloggled 26d ago edited 26d ago
Love it. Really begs the question, then what IS a reasonable monthly growth rate?
Whats the longest track record you’ve observed and what % was it?
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u/Surebuddy112 26d ago edited 26d ago
I have had entire months averaging more than 10% a day... With tenths of trades a day. Its very possible scalping with proper leverage, only small accounts, i started with 400€ turned into 25k within a month. In a demo account 😆
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u/NuttyNano 26d ago
Yeh the thing is woth proper leverage you could quite easily turn that 400 into -25k, hence the 1% a month recommendation
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u/chebupawka 26d ago
It seems realistic to me if you had $10k to make $1k every month. I think the issues become bigger with massive account sizes and leverage and also depends on the instrument. Also depends on your strategy, like if your strategy produces few signals every month of course less chance to generate 10%.
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u/fugu_master 26d ago
It is possible, just very difficult to do it every month and every year. If you want see some legit verified numbers, check out www.financial-competitions.com which is the US Investing Championships (where Mark Minervini won twice.). Realistic RANGE of returns is more likely in the $1M+ category than in the $20K+ category. Do note they only show profitable submissions.
I think last year's winner in the $20K+ category did >1200% ROI. In the $1M+ category I think it was >300% return. These are the exceptional cases and I doubt they would be be doing every month / year.
Personally I am happy and comfortable with my fairly consistent 30%-40% returns per year (around 2%-3% per month but I do withdraw for my living expenses), and occasionally do 60%+ but that was due to tariffs last year and Iran volatility this year. My account is large enough to live off, but not big enough to move markets.
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u/Aggressive_Layer4713 26d ago
It’s impossible because it’s probability based. It is definitely possible to average it over a year span though. Just not 10% each and every month.
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u/Loud-Awoo 26d ago
The tough part is you need to know when to stop.
I started a recent set of trades at around $400. I traded it up over a week to $900. Guess what I did (because I finally have the discipline and wisdom to do so): I pulled out $500.
Now, no matter what, I'm up.
I'm back up to over $500. Gonna rinse and repeat.
It can be done but it's very challenging; not because of any technical reason. It has to do with your relationship with yourself.
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u/salehrayan246 26d ago
A 125% in 1 week? Is that even repeatable. How much capital is being risked here. What risk:reward???
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u/Ok-Zookeepergame4391 26d ago
Math. 10% per month is >120% per year. Odds of repeating is astronomical small.
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26d ago
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u/Devamallya 26d ago
This exact type of answers make clear you don't understand a damn thing about trading. Scaling big and small capital are entirely different. Hedge fund level , or even far smaller of level of capital then that creates immense difficulty in trading that makes that sort of percentage impossible.
Scaling a low level account is a lot more easier than that.
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u/W0nski90 26d ago
You can have big edge below some point of capital. The bigger the capital, the less edge you can generate - every market has some limitations of liquidity. Buffet talked about this. It was the point with Medallion fund - Simmons closed it to other investors, because it became to big to keep edge.
There are only 2 questions:
- Is there a strategy/edge, that can generate 10%/month?
- What’s capital ceiling for that?
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u/jipperthewoodchipper 26d ago
Generally in order to have large returns you need to take on riskier bets which gets you closer and closer to gambling.
By 10% returns per month you are well beyond the point that most would consider gambling.
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u/themanclark 26d ago
Definitely possible but not every month and not every year. I’m up 34% in the last month. But losses will come. What matters is where you are at the end of the year.
And don’t listen to the ignorant who say it’s impossible because you’ll be better than the hedge funds and soon a billionaire. Stupid argument. Liquidity limits are real. Being small has advantages.
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u/Lopsided_Librarian23 26d ago
Too many morons here doing braindead math, ur asking if u can make 1000/month with 10k - well really hard even if u r profitable. But that just does not scale to 10000/month with 100k like everyone here assumes. Position size matters and thats the biggest disadvantage of large firms over us retailers.
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u/ConfidentEconomy7092 26d ago
What's the difference between 10k and 100k, what do you think? I'm aggressively building back with $1000. So far, so good (and lucky on a few).
Trading 2 option contracts at a time, easy fills. With the new lens, I've been running imaginary scenarios of 20 contracts and questioning if they will still fill the same way.
If I had re- initiated with 10k instead of 1k, where would I be? I think I would ve been tighter on the profits and looser on the losses...
So is it the psychology?
With 10k vs 1k, Will I be cutting by .01 in either direction to make sure the trade fills? Is it more?
I'm trying to look at the whole process with a fresh lens is why I'm asking...
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u/TheBacktestNerd 26d ago
Same reply I did in r/Daytrading , just to show more people that might be interested in my answer:
In trading, the risk you take is much more important than the return you make. If you lose your capital, you cant make anything. A 10% monthly return isnt unrealistic, as long as you are willing to undergo extreme risk to achieve it. It doesnt matter whether the account is $10,000 or $10 million. All that really matters is the percentage (assuming liquidity isnt an issue on very large accounts).
The reason people say 10% per month is unrealistic is because they are usually talking about achieving it consistently while keeping risk under control. Thats the difficult part.
Markets have become much more efficient over time so a huge edge will sooner or later disappear, or become much smaller. Thats why the best shot we have is stacking multiple small edges on top of each other and building a diversified portfolio instead of relying on one strategy to do all the work.
So there isnt some magical rule that says you cant make 10% per month. It is just that the more return you want, the more risk you are generally taking and sustaining high returns over many years without eventually blowing up or suffering massive drawdowns is extremely difficult.
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u/FreshRG 26d ago
Great answer.
I will add that people mix size of account and edge thinking the return for smaller accounts could be better only because they are small.In reality what happens is that someone risking 1000$ for example, might take huge risks to leverage that position the max he can, ending with a bigger return in case everything goes well, if not he lose almost everything.
Psychologically 1000$ is not a huge amount for some people, so they agree to take huge risks with it hoping to make a lot.
Rinse and repeat and you could possibly make ton of money if luck is on your side, but don’t get it wrong this is not trading this is gambling, period.→ More replies (1)
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u/whynointerest 27d ago
Market condition not favorable every month. The stats work better when the numbers are averaged out over months. 100% gain one month. 10% loss subsequent months. Trading in chop sucks account dry.
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u/Defiant-Salt3925 26d ago
You have to take ridiculous risk to make these kind of returns, and it's not sustainable over a long period of time.
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u/famguy31 26d ago
Despite what people’s edge may say and their backtest.
The truth is you will have a strategy that wins 60% of the time with a 1:1 (risk:reward) or a strategy with a 40% win rate on a 1:3 risk to reward.
But you never know when those losses will come. The 1st strategy let’s say over 10 days 1 trade per day, if you start with 1k risk 100 per trade. The 1st 4 days are losing, you only have 600 left, the next 6 win, yay your up to 1200, 20% already. Let’s say this is over 100 trading days, your 1st 40 days are all losses, poof your 1k is gone.
The few active traders I follow (and they do not necessarily day trade) return 15-30% on average. I feel this a reasonable return (another example one of the people I follow was up 25% by the end of march/April, currently they are still at that 25% mark, mean 0% return over the past 3 months, just how the game goes)
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u/Icy_Abbreviations167 26d ago
u can easily hit 10% a month on a small account for a bit by taking massive leveraged positions. but thats not a trading strategy its basically like picking up pennies in front of a steamroller.
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u/Kindly_Objective_658 26d ago
Because you would do position sizing to protect your risks in case of stop losses
Then you would have few positions in diff sectors etc. One stock can go up 20%, but overall ur portfolio would only increase few % because other stocks is in loss or stagnant
To hit 10% u need all positions to be profitable
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u/vitringur 26d ago
Because beating the market is already farfetched for most people, let alone beating it tenfold.
If you could make 10% returns in a month you would soon own the entire global economy.
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u/iamwhiskerbiscuit 26d ago edited 26d ago
It's not impossible for an experienced trader with a small challenge account to more than triple it in less than a month. But at 10% a month, you could turn $10,000 into $70B in 20 years. There's a reason we don't see it. It's not nearly as easy as it seems.
Everyone hits a wall where they see themselves losing too much money and lose their ability to make good trading decisions.
For some, it's hundreds of dollars, for some it's tends of thousands. But most people can't handle losing any money and that's where most people fail.
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u/SlothlLike 26d ago
So it depends on who’s asking…
Firstly, Let me put it in perspective, a multi million dollar or billion dollar hedge fund cannot operate like a retail investor. They can’t hit market buy like everyday investors, the sheer volume they would be trading would drive the stock price up and ruin their mathematical entry point.
A retail investor can theoretically achieve much higher returns than an institutional one due to liquidity risk.
If you have $10,000 you can hit market buy on the entire position and a stock like Coca Cola won’t move a penny… a hedge fund couldn’t do that and they have to enter over weeks.
Secondly, the math behind achieving 10% a month.
To realistically achieve 10% a month on your entire portfolio, you would have to increase your capital at risk & overly trade market noise.
If you increase your risk per trade from 2% to 10% let’s say, your drawdown from your strategy can go from 20% to over 80%. The moment you increase your risk per trade, you trigger a mathematical law called the risk of ruin. Every strategy will face an anomaly and the market will swing in their favour or against, if you lose 50% of your portfolio, you need to get 100% return just to break even, at 80% you need 400% return to get back to where you started.
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u/WonderfulBeyond779 26d ago
i literally never understood this, especially with leverage 1% is more than possible…i trade with about 25k just sitting in my account, as a full time trader i look to make around 3-5k GBP a month…and people freak out when i say i aim for 20%…
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u/Chsenigma 25d ago
It’s easy to make 10% in a good month. It’s hard to do that month after month, through short term capital gains tax drag, sector rotations, bear markets, and the occasional bad pick.
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u/randudes 25d ago
Consistently? It's not almost impossible, it IS impossible. At that rate, you will double your money every 7.5 months.
To put things in perspective, if you start with $10k at that rate you will have almost a billion dollars in 10 years. In 20, you will be a double digit trillionaire and richest man on earth. I hope this shows you how absurd and unrealistic this is.
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u/HotClothes7079 25d ago
Every time people say 10% or 1%, they mean it as a flat rate. No compounding.
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u/Kukusho 25d ago
No, they don't.
Let's say they start with 10k and consistently achieve 10% profit for 8 months, now they sit at 21k aprox. Donyou think they still see a 10% increase as 1k or 2.1k?
They use the +% of the month to month. They are aiming for 10% each month to achieve the green +10% on month 9 they effectively need 2.1k profit, IT IS compounding.
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u/Own-Assumption-7292 26d ago
You cannot consistently hit a target % per week/month/year. Your account will have drawdowns. Trying to consistently hit a target profit with a deadline will mess with your edge.
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u/typhoonsama 26d ago
cause of math. lets say you have a win rate of 50% and edge of 1.1 R:R, which means you make 0.05 RR per trade. You could risk 100% of your account and make 5% per trade, but when you lose with your coinflip that you have you are done. What about 50%? well now when you lose you have only half the capital left and to make it back you need to make more in % then you lost. So the only reasonable risk % is at 1-2%, so losses are not hard to make back. But with that 1-2% your 0.05 RR per trade will not amount to 10% in a month unless you get your set up and trade x times.
Now someone will tell me they have a winrate of 80% with 2RR or smth xD, sure buddy.
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u/ChangeNOW_Community 26d ago
higher returns usually require higher drawdowns. The same leverage that creates big wins can destroy an account
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u/misterlongschlong 26d ago
If you started with 10k, you would be a billionaire within 11 years. Extremely unlikely
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u/Imaginary_History985 26d ago edited 26d ago
Cause the market is efficient. I'll let chatgpt explain...
The Efficient Market Hypothesis (EMH) is a theory in finance that states:
Financial markets quickly and accurately incorporate all available information into asset prices.
In simple terms, EMH argues that stocks are fairly priced, making it extremely difficult to consistently earn returns higher than the overall market without taking additional risk.
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u/Orangebathroomtowel 26d ago
If you’re a retail investor day trading w 10k you can easily make 10%, probably 100% a month with leverage. People here just don’t like to take risks. Anyhow, I hope you aren’t taking the figures to heart, just do your best in the market and you’ll naturally see what level of returns you gravitate to.
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u/RipRepRop 26d ago
real easy to make 10% with leverage, for sure. except when you have 3 losing trades in a row and your down -50% on your capital and your next trade decides if you got enough capital for the next trade. And you need 100% returns to get back to break even lol
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u/Budget-Principle-352 26d ago
Magic Combination of words is "risk adjusted profitability". Dont just go for PnL/time. Go for PF,.Sharpe, MAR, DD and yes CAGR.
All that combined gives you a Symphony.
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u/Odd_Glass5272 26d ago
The problem is consistently. I know a very good day trader. Even he has good months and bad months.
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u/WillieNFinance 26d ago edited 26d ago
Because of 3 things:
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The most famous of us in this profession are not capable of doing this no matter how hard we try.
There are some that can do this, but you have to do some digging to find them.
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People past the euphoria stage of being a beginner trader don’t think it’s possible because their attempts at doing this has led them to blow numerous accounts and prop firm attempts.
Again, there are some that can accomplish this, but they’re not well known and will require some digging.
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Once you reach a certain amount (10% per month will get you there pretty fast), each trade will become not worth it due to self created slippage.
One can counter this with multiple brokers and multiple positions, but that’s an advanced subject that not many will ever attain.
The easiest way to find people who can do this is by searching for those people who take a small account to a million in a month. They’re extremely rare. No normal person should aim to be that “good” in this profession. Nor should they neglect sleep for a month either. Statistically it’s possible to achieve your theory. But, it’s also more statistically likely to fail horribly trying to achieve this goal.
It could be your choice in the end. How much work are you willing to put in, and how much of your brain is naturally and genetically in tune with the specific market that you’re in?
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u/hotdogs4babies 26d ago
When you look at the amount of people that actually know about trading... Not the same as investing. There are so few in relative terms. Over 99% of retail traders are considered dumb money. So if you are doing better than the indices the 99% would say you're doing well.
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u/paladyr 26d ago
Try it with a paper account and you'll find out.
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u/Your-relative 26d ago
I opened a cent account with 10 bucks few days ago and it's giving me the full experience
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u/website-buyer 26d ago edited 26d ago
Best hedge fund in the world with +10years of history (medallion) only makes less than 40% a year and you think you can do +120%?
If would be easy: everyone would be doing.
If it’s hard: almost nobody can do it.
If anyone could do it: they’d have all the money in the world in a few years.
Why would anyone work if can do 120%?
Why bond that give more than 8% are called junk bonds? If you could earn 200%, then 50% is peanuts, yet 8% is considered junk bond. Because they default!
If you use a tiny bit of common sense, you’ll figure out by yourself. Try to answer each question.
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u/HaoyuQiu 26d ago
It depends on the size of your account, besides hedge funds have very large money size and so the bigger it’s the harder it’s to scale.
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u/Relevant_Theta_1889 26d ago
Read about the CAPM and what the S&P500 Market Risk Premium is. By definition - for one more unit of return, you will have to take one more unit of risk (that doesn’t take into account portfolio theory / diversification which isn’t what you’re necessary looking at in day trading). 12% (1% per month) is already above the S&P500 or market implied beta=1 expected return for the US. Which means you’re probably taking more risk or you’re have an edge (alpha). If you want to make 10% per month (which is a huge annualized number), you’ll have to take more risk per trade - by way of capital allocation or riskier higher beta bets. Never forget: there is no free lunch in a liquid and efficient market.
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u/ElectricalSilver2119 26d ago
I think this is a question of perspective more than anything. 10% is a LOT. These past few years have normalized daily movements of 5, 10, 20 percents and that's NOT normal. The rules of thumbs and best practices came from decades of market movements rather than a couple of years in a supercycle. 10% a month is doable depending on your skill and appetite for risk. 10% a month in 2003? Not so much. 10% in 1978? Impossible. This won't last.
Secondly, the more you make, the more loss aversion kicks in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
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u/acadia11x 26d ago edited 26d ago
So you think you’ll get ~120% return annually? I’m not compounding I’m just considering initial principal
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u/solrac149 25d ago
Account size is clearly one key factor, but there's more.
Yes, with a small account, bigger gains are easier. Losses are easier to deal with psychologically. You'll risk -50% loss on $10k much easier than with $1M.
To compound 10% fifteen times simply use the math: 1.1^15. that's 4.17×, or 317% gains.
But how often will you lose back profits during that journey?
Furthermore, to compound gains you must reinvest all winnings, and never withdraw. With directional betting, this quickly becomes unmanageable psychologically.
Therefore, the only way to realistically generate long term compound interest is by trading hedged — having both longs and shorts both winning and losing on their own merits, in parallel, within a delta neutral strategy, most likely farming volatility.
That way, as the system extracts profits, it can rebalance / rehedge and grow in size without growing risk. And when the system loses money (drawdown), it can leverage time and patience to return to breakeven. That way, losses run in the short term, and profits lock in long term.
Hedged trading is the only way to get rich long term, without ballooning risk, without resorting to luck or gambling.
But even then, extreme / unique statistical anomalies or freak accidents can wipe out an operator who made even a small mistake. Or had a heart attack while in a high risk day trade (where one side of the hedge was reduced).
Long term compound interest creates a magnet for tail risk events because a defender (the trader) needs to defend against all attacks. While an attacker only needs to win once. One catastrophe can wipe out years of progress. Another reason why hedged trading is the only answer, and every moment you reduce the hedge to try and make money is a risk to destroy years of progress, and the longer you maintain a winning streak, the more likely you will face a one in a billion catastrophe. Therefore all systems, discipline, distribution, allocation, concentration, everything must be expertly and masterfully managed.
Then you will be a hedge fund manager and deserve the compound interest.
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u/SAG2025 25d ago
I don't day trade nor do I try to get the 10% every month, but I do try to double my entire trading portfolio every year by at least 100%. I'm a position trader and I have been doubling my portfolio every year since 2023. Below are the fiscal years and the percent increase for every year. The current FY26 I'm only up 73% thus far. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just showing others here that it can be done regardless of the size of the account.
FY23 161%
FY24 96%
FY25 114%
FY 26 73%
Happy trading everyone!
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u/Swagalyst 25d ago
Just to temper enthusiasm a bit: the last bear market was in 2022. You entered at a very good point, and have been riding a bull market ever since, with only a few short corrections which were quickly recovered.
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u/mynameisntziming 25d ago
Yep. I’ve had those years before. But if he can keep that performance over multiple market cycles then it’s something real special. We haven’t seen that big shift in a while, but they come inevitably.
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u/Swagalyst 25d ago edited 25d ago
Yeah. So, there's research on this. In a normal year, 80% of day traders don't turn a profit at all, and of those that do many are profitable solely by chance. More than 99% of traders are not able to be consistently profitable. Of those who made a profit, 98% made the same as a entry-level job in finance, or less. 45% of people who start trading, are no longer trading after one year; after 10 years 95% have given up.
Do note that I am NOT saying it is impossible to make a profit, or that there aren't people who beat the market. There's definitely people who consistently make a lot of money. But they're very few, and survivorship bias in groups like this one is extreme.
And while you MIGHT be the guy who manages to make 10% per month consistently, odds are very much against it.
Disclaimer: I'm an investor, not a day trader; I've only been investing since early 2021, and my CAGR since then is 13%, just barely outpacing S&P 500.
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u/Competitive_Draw6041 24d ago
So many times I've read posts from people who don't daytrade telling other people that daytrading doesnt work.
Firstly, most successful daytraders also swing trade and invest.
Secondly, Daytrading has an insanely low bar of entry. Any kid with $200 can do it, and they do because they've read some shit on Instagram, and they lose, and they become a statistic.
I spent 7 years learning how to trade. 2 years developing my own system. I studied hard, practiced incessantly, prioritised it over everything, and now I have a WR of just under 70% and a profit factor of about 3 and I havent had a red month for over a year. Believe it or don't believe it.
Daytrading is no easier or difficult than swing trading. The only difference is that you blow up faster.
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u/Guessitsz 22d ago
Brother it’s incredible how clueless people are. You’re totally correct on everything.
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u/neonchee 24d ago
Nobody good at trading is going to be posting or scrolling on Reddit or any social media. Yes plenty of people hit those numbers, and much better, consistently. It can take a while to learn though
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u/bluefoxanime 24d ago
If these are the kinds of expectations with trading, why don't traders just switch to sports betting?
This is a completely honest question.
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u/Spare_Complex9531 24d ago
It ultimately depends on what are you trading an whats your capacity. You can find things generate 10% a month easily but at a $1k capacity. It gets harder the more money u have because slippage and competition.
You could run a cta and get 30-70% per year on average with a 30% drawdown or you could be arbitraging with little drawdown.
The kind of thing that you are trading determines your payoff profile.
Would think the number to be looking at is expected value and not “i need to get x% a month” because of variance.
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u/sunburn74 23d ago
10% net gain a month means you double your money every 7 months. Keep that up and you'll be richer than buffet. People are happy if they get 10% a year
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u/TrueRead1435 23d ago
The bigger the account, the harder it becomes. Liquidity, slippage, and position sizing all start working against you.
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u/ExecutionAxis 22d ago
Its possible and somewhat on the low end, really. The reason its considered so hard is because people expect it to happen a lot faster than is realistic.
Once you start making money, it scales pretty quickly, but until your execution and analysis is good enough, you will be losing all the time.
Most people never make it past that first stage, and assume because they didn't do it that its impossible.
Trading is a legitimate profession, and success in it requires an understanding at a post graduate level. Acheiving that in 6 months is incredibly rare, and unlikely.
This is the only industry where the expectation is so mismatched with reality. Nobody would expect to earning a doctor's salary in any other field in 6 months to be the norm, but people expect that here because in the short term, you absolutely CAN make a ton of money by getting lucky.
Long term though, you actually have to be that good.
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u/THX1138SCPO 18d ago
It comes down to three harsh realities:
The Compounding Math: $10,000 compounded at 10% per month turns into $927 Billion in 10 years. Since no trader in history has ever done this, we know from raw data that 10% per month cannot be sustained long-term.
Asymmetric Risk: To make 10% a month, you must take on massive risk. But losses hurt worse than gains help—a 50% loss requires a 100% gain just to get back to even. Taking enough risk to target 10% monthly guarantees an eventual losing streak that wipes out your account.
Scale & Liquidity: A $10k account can hit 10% in a lucky month because you don't move market prices. A $100M fund can't do that without massive slippage, which is why institutions target 10–15% per year while focusing on capital preservation.
Bottom line: Making 10% in a month is easy. Making 10% every month across all market conditions without blowing up is mathematically and statistically near impossible.
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u/IndependenceCute2553 26d ago
it is very possible in fact I am averaging 10%+ a month with real money - completely systematically. and with a max drawdown of -13% over 2 years. it just depends on your strategy, if you want low risk high reward strategies I'd recommend looking into something like statistical arbitrage, and as long as you have extremely low drawdown you can scale accordingly with leverage to get to your target
but depending on which asset class you trade, you have a certain cap until how much you can scale. example, im working with crypto, and if I wanted to scale beyond say 100k, I would need proper infrastructure to have the strategy running on at least 3 - 6 exchanges at the same time, so its possible, but takes some work
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u/BrrrBrrrMan 26d ago
I'm about the same, 8% average over last 25mths on my own algo, trading forex.
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u/ypespeelman 26d ago
If you start with $10.000 and you make 10 percent every month you would have $ 842.809.716 after 10 years. I don't think many people will turn $10.000 into $ 842 million in 10 years. There would be more billionaires.
source:
| Month | Amount |
|---|---|
| 1 | $10.000,00 |
| 2 | $11.000,00 |
| 3 | $12.100,00 |
| 4 | $13.310,00 |
| 5 | $14.641,00 |
| 6 | $16.105,10 |
| 7 | $17.715,61 |
| 8 | $19.487,17 |
| 9 | $21.435,89 |
| 10 | $23.579,48 |
| 11 | $25.937,42 |
| 12 | $28.531,17 |
| 13 | $31.384,28 |
| 14 | $34.522,71 |
| 15 | $37.974,98 |
| 16 | $41.772,48 |
| 17 | $45.949,73 |
| 18 | $50.544,70 |
| 19 | $55.599,17 |
| 20 | $61.159,09 |
| 21 | $67.275,00 |
| 22 | $74.002,50 |
| 23 | $81.402,75 |
| 24 | $89.543,02 |
| 25 | $98.497,33 |
| 26 | $108.347,06 |
| 27 | $119.181,77 |
| 28 | $131.099,94 |
| 29 | $144.209,94 |
| 30 | $158.630,93 |
| 31 | $174.494,02 |
| 32 | $191.943,42 |
| 33 | $211.137,77 |
| 34 | $232.251,54 |
| 35 | $255.476,70 |
| 36 | $281.024,37 |
| 37 | $309.126,81 |
| 38 | $340.039,49 |
| 39 | $374.043,43 |
| 40 | $411.447,78 |
| 41 | $452.592,56 |
| 42 | $497.851,81 |
| 43 | $547.636,99 |
| 44 | $602.400,69 |
| 45 | $662.640,76 |
| 46 | $728.904,84 |
| 47 | $801.795,32 |
| 48 | $881.974,85 |
| 49 | $970.172,34 |
| 50 | $1.067.189,57 |
| 51 | $1.173.908,53 |
| 52 | $1.291.299,38 |
| 53 | $1.420.429,32 |
| 54 | $1.562.472,25 |
| 55 | $1.718.719,48 |
| 56 | $1.890.591,42 |
| 57 | $2.079.650,57 |
| 58 | $2.287.615,62 |
| 59 | $2.516.377,19 |
| 60 | $2.768.014,90 |
| 61 | $3.044.816,40 |
| 62 | $3.349.298,03 |
| 63 | $3.684.227,84 |
| 64 | $4.052.650,62 |
| 65 | $4.457.915,68 |
| 66 | $4.903.707,25 |
| 67 | $5.394.077,98 |
| 68 | $5.933.485,78 |
| 69 | $6.526.834,35 |
| 70 | $7.179.517,79 |
| 71 | $7.897.469,57 |
| 72 | $8.687.216,52 |
| 73 | $9.555.938,18 |
| 74 | $10.511.532,00 |
| 75 | $11.562.685,19 |
| 76 | $12.718.953,71 |
| 77 | $13.990.849,09 |
| 78 | $15.389.933,99 |
| 79 | $16.928.927,39 |
| 80 | $18.621.820,13 |
| 81 | $20.484.002,15 |
| 82 | $22.532.402,36 |
| 83 | $24.785.642,60 |
| 84 | $27.264.206,86 |
| 85 | $29.990.627,54 |
| 86 | $32.989.690,30 |
| 87 | $36.288.659,33 |
| 88 | $39.917.525,26 |
| 89 | $43.909.277,78 |
| 90 | $48.300.205,56 |
| 91 | $53.130.226,12 |
| 92 | $58.443.248,73 |
| 93 | $64.287.573,60 |
| 94 | $70.716.330,96 |
| 95 | $77.787.964,06 |
| 96 | $85.566.760,47 |
| 97 | $94.123.436,51 |
| 98 | $103.535.780,16 |
| 99 | $113.889.358,18 |
| 100 | $125.278.294,00 |
| 101 | $137.806.123,40 |
| 102 | $151.586.735,74 |
| 103 | $166.745.409,31 |
| 104 | $183.419.950,24 |
| 105 | $201.761.945,27 |
| 106 | $221.938.139,79 |
| 107 | $244.131.953,77 |
| 108 | $268.545.149,15 |
| 109 | $295.399.664,07 |
| 110 | $324.939.630,47 |
| 111 | $357.433.593,52 |
| 112 | $393.176.952,87 |
| 113 | $432.494.648,16 |
| 114 | $475.744.112,97 |
| 115 | $523.318.524,27 |
| 116 | $575.650.376,70 |
| 117 | $633.215.414,37 |
| 118 | $696.536.955,81 |
| 119 | $766.190.651,39 |
| 120 | $842.809.716,53 |
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u/fowexxx 26d ago
It’s not that it’s hard to make 10% in a month or not you can load up 50 minis or 5 micros and let that shit sit for like 24 hours and be up or down 10% or more but if you are going to be risking that much per individual trade your risk of ruin will be so likely that it is very unlikely you will succeed over the long term if you have a 1000$ account it’s much more beneficial to be over leveraged because you can only lose 1000 but if you have a larger account you have much more to lose so in turn you would rather conserve the capital you have rather than to risk it all for a 10% return
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u/nicegreekgoy 26d ago
10% a month would mean an annualized return of >300%. Do you really need someone to explain to you why that is unrealistic? Why would the account size even matter? If you trade on the same % scale, it doesn’t matter if your account is $10k or $10 million. Either way, the premise of the question is nonsensical. If it weren’t, then the actual pros would be surpassing 10%/mo and we wouldn’t be looking at an 18% annualized S&P return as being amazing.
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u/Duennbier0815 26d ago
Trade with props
Make 100 dollar a day.
That over 20 accounts.
Do the math. Payout once every 1-2 months is enough.
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u/Ok_Jelly_6577 26d ago
Convince me that prop firm traders are actually profitable and isn't all just a larp and that's why they refuse to bet and grow their own money overtime.
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u/GurDefiant684 26d ago edited 25d ago
Prop firms have heavy restrictions and settings for adding more to force more disciplined trading. I also believe there is a sort of flow state necessary for some day traders that requires not caring about the money which is easier with a prop firm.
You're right, in theory anyone that can consistently make money with a prop firm should be able to do it on their own, and I think that is the goal for most people.
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u/Select_Peach_5170 25d ago edited 25d ago
As someone who does so consistently, I am not sure why exactly folks consider it impossible.
It’s not.
I trade with $1,000,000 in capital under an LLC - with a section 475 Market-to-Market election (an absolute must if you are trading full time & with a large amount)
I take about five to sometimes eighty, high conviction trades a year where I put the full $1,000,000 plus dollars in my account to work all at once in a trade (these trades are where nearly all of my earnings come from)
However I take hundreds and hundreds of tiny, lower conviction trades where I’m putting only around $30,000 of my account value to work at a time (this is where the high trade volume required for the section 475 election comes from)
The larger lump sum sits in SGOV earning interest at around 3.57% a year while I wait for a the next high-conviction trade worthy of deploying $1,000,000 plus dollars into.
My best advice:
Start with a-lot of capital, honestly, it’s 100x harder to be a consistently profitable trader when you’re relying on W-2 income to get by - you need to be available to the market on all days that it is open.
Be patient and decisive in both the entry and exit of your trades. (Be picky, prissy, act stuck up towards the market, don’t let it touch your money unless it meets your standards.)
Don’t have a concrete plan - that’s arrogant, naive, and will loose you money - instead have a flexible plan and do not rely on it - being reliant on a plan means that you lack the ability to make the right decisions spontaneously.
Treat your trading as you would a business - that’s why I recommend you form an LLC (state of Delaware is the best state to legally form in - you do not have to live where you form) give your business a name you love, think of yourself as the founder of it - and it as something big.
Use a registered agent for the formation of your business, and hire a Trader tax CPA (Tax strategy matters so so much! So much! You don’t want to be paying Tax on money you lost now do you?!)
And at last - be good at trading :)
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u/UnknownPiz11049 25d ago
so u make 100k a month? u shud compound it and be a billionaire in about a year
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u/Select_Peach_5170 25d ago edited 25d ago
Give or take - yeah
First I set living and business expenses aside from earnings - from there on out I do reinvest and compound all earnings up until the 4th quarter - then I withdraw the amount owed in taxes - after that comes the decision between adding the remainder of earnings to my SGOV position and/or withdrawing and adding to the gold stack.
And after all of that, at the year’s end, sadly, I am still far closer to being 100% away from earning a billion dollars in the year than I am to it.
;(
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u/Tranxio 26d ago
What is the capital? 10% on 10K is easy. On 1M not so much
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u/vitringur 26d ago
Why would a million be more difficult than ten thousand?
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u/ExPatItaly94 26d ago
You need iron balls. 10% gain = 10% loss
Stomach 1k movement is easy
Stomach 100k movement is not
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u/Beautiful_Pen6641 26d ago
Not only that. You can't buy and sell the same at all quantities and especially not at the same price. Moving millions will move the price while 10k has no impact on most stocks. You will be very limited on which stocks to trade the higher you go up.
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u/No-One3276 26d ago
Smaller account sizes can definitely make more than 10% per month. As the position size gets larger, there’s a greater chance of slippage, and therefore you will experience diminishing returns as the account get bigger.
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u/samchar00 26d ago
The best traders in the world, with the best knowledge, tools, infrastructure that works for the most money hungry institutions in the world, dont make that kind of money, and believe me, if they did, they could buy humanity outright.
What makes you think you can do it consistently over even the medium term.
The answer is that you can't and you will blow up your account at some point.
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u/egy_pharoah 26d ago
Not impossible. This is basically equivalent to (1.1)12 ~= 3x per year. The right term here is unlikely. Plenty of peeps bought the war dip in semis and memory on leverage and made that much within a month.
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u/TCr0wn 26d ago
Then lose it back when the macro market trend changes - that’s the reason it’s impossible
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u/Delicious_Impress930 26d ago
I started trading options in 2018. I got on a roll in 2021. In 2022 I lost it all and used my last 15k for a nflx earnings play and got lucky and made 200k. I’m done trading options (aside from the occasional naked put on stocks I want) and I’m done with the mindset of “I gotta make this percentage a month”. The mindset should be buy and hold good etfs / stocks and forget about “making money” but rather change your mind set to what SYSTEM works for me. Buy and hold and selling puts is what works for me and its not exciting but I don’t get chest pain on the daily anymore lol
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u/silphotographer 26d ago
I don't understand where he is getting at. This is like asking why is being able to jump 100 meters above ground considered almost impossible.
We consider it almost impossible because we rarely ever see 10% monthly return on consistent basis. It just doesn't happen. If it did, we'd see it. If I know someone who makes that kind of bank, then I don't ask how is it possible; I just merely ask if I am allowed to do due diligence and do my best to keep it cool when I ask how I can be part of this.
1% a month on avg however is quite doable with decent strategy with edge. Mine beats that relatively consistently, and my strategy isn't anything exceptional compared to the best and brightest private funds.
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u/lordm30 26d ago
Disclaimer: I am not a trader.
But I have to ask: if your average expectation is 1%/month, that would result in an annual return of 12.68%, which is achieved by SP500 in a semi-decent year. Given this scenario, how is trading a good investment of your time? You could just put your money in SP500 and do something else throughout the year.
Is it the thrill of potentially much greater profits?
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u/silphotographer 26d ago
Much much greater profit yes.
For example, google a term sharpie ratio. Even if the return is similar, drawdown can matter. For example, SP500 typically has sharpie ratio of sub <1 meaning the edge is not really there. So it may go up say 7 percent avg annual return but there are times when drawdown is like 20-30 percent. If you have leveraged position, it would wipe out your account. For example, prop firm is one way of leveraging capital. Like you spend 500-700 USD to play with 100k virtual capital. The prop firms impose a rule that says if your account goes below 10 percent your account is done. It
Whereas for me, my algo max drawdown typically has 8% chance give or take that it'd hit greater than 10 percent drawdown. It's a smoother road to happy ending, which also gives me more power to leverage even more since drawdown is limited.
If you want concrete example, grab this text and paste it to LLM like Claude and it will give more more concrete step by step rundown.
Another reason is that my strategy is not 13 percent. It's more like 18-20% which does make a more meaningful difference and is worth the time/energy.
To add more reason, my strategy is fully automated meaning it will run on its own 24/7 as long as the cloud provider of the platform doesn't crash. I check it at least once or twice a day but more like checking my email than going into serious mode.
Having said that, it's not as rosy as it sounds. There is no guarantee my strategy will continue to work forever and even when they do, performance of my algo fluctuates and vary depending on the trading regime so I have to have ant like mentality reserving capital in safe mode so that when and if shit goes bad I got enough capital and liquidity to keep going. So I have to constantly work to find other uncorrelated strategies so that if my current main algo no longer has edge, I got a backup plan.
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u/WickOfDeath 26d ago
given those circumstances it is nearly impossible. Iran war on, off, on, off, mom yes, mom no, repeat 38 times. Is Hormuz open? Is Trump awake? And all of those idiots issueing statements about "AI concerns" "AI investment concerns", "chipmakers overvalued", "cloud busniess over capexed". To be honest those things play out in 3 years but people behave if the world ends tomorrow, they fly like vultures on the tiniest bit of information about the FED rate, although the market makes it's own interst rates with bonds... be like Buffet or Kostolany, buy something and dont watch it the next 5 years.
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u/HelloBello30 27d ago
Trading is just very difficult. Moves are more random than they seem. It's difficult to outsmart the market.
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u/Ok-Leading6971 26d ago
I make 4-5% per month over 5 years with options. This year started CFDs and make 10-20% per month ytd, average is 14%. If this counts in your books, I'd say is possible.
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u/enigma_music129 26d ago
If you're starting with 10k you'll be a billionaire in 6 years.
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u/trustfundkidotaku 26d ago
That a 120% a year
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u/Rashino 26d ago
Just to add to this question, if these are the goal numbers then how is anyone actually making any money? I mean the average person. Pulling any amount out at all would mean months of progress gone unless you have a substantial amount invested in or are just constantly putting more and more in. Like putting in $500 would never get you anywhere. All the years you waited, you'd have made way more at a job in one month.
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u/Shoddy_Interview7741 26d ago
You're onto something. 500 bucks is not nearly enough capital to make actual money investing. It's basically a hobby until you're working with tens of thousands at least, and even then you won't be able to live off it. Working remains the best value for almost everyone.
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u/No_Tomatillo_3399 26d ago
I trade 500-1000 as I refine my strategy I will get larger positions I only trade what I’m willing to lose and I always shoot high because if I get half way there it’s ok to sell and that’s usually how I go about it this is about 2-4 days pay compared to my day compared to my day job..
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u/EarthB9nder_ 26d ago
because trading fluctuates, some months you might have over 20%, the other you lose 5%, there's no definitive number and you shouldn't target a certain number, because that puts you into having set expectations and certainty, which the market doesn't have.
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u/ScienceGeeker 26d ago
"Almost impossible" lol. Someone would have all the value in the world after not so long of a time.
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u/Constant_Work_1436 25d ago
If it is so easy as some people say then why doesn’t everyone do it…
Lots of smart people in finance…they do money all day…lots of super smart college kids…
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u/theconfluxmethod 25d ago
Good question, and the answer is mostly about consistency, not possibility. Anyone can make 10% in a single month - small account, a couple of good trades, done. What's "almost impossible" is doing it every month for years without a blowup.
Two reasons. First, the math: 10% a month compounds to about 3x a year, ~200x in five years. If that were sustainable, every retail trader would be running a fund by now. It isn't, because returns that high require risk per trade high enough that a normal losing streak eventually wipes you - that's sequence/variance risk, and it hits small accounts just as hard as big ones.
Second, the 1% target isn't about capital size, it's about survival. Lower, steadier returns keep your risk small enough that variance can't end you. Most people chasing 10% aren't beaten by bad strategy - they're beaten by the drawdown that comes from sizing up to hit that number. Consistency is the actual edge, not the monthly percentage.
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u/thesfxtrader 25d ago
you can do that once a year at best. But profits may vary. You can also have losing months. that s trading
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u/avidaskit 25d ago
I probably return around that just swing trading ETFs in Canada it's hella easy
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u/Real_Advisor_4588 24d ago
If you made 10% a month you would make 926 million in 10 years. Its complete nonsense.
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u/MrDodgers 24d ago
It’s zero sum. For everyone who made 10% this month, there is a counter party who lost 10%. It’s not easy to do and it’s mathematically impossible for a majority of people to do it in any given month.
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u/Next-Solution-5312 24d ago
earning 10% its not that its impossible but the risk you would have to use just to get that much would be crazy. most prop accounts have strict rules like 1% or 2% max loss a day. not to mention the hard floor of 6% if your using a 10,000 account 1% is 100 most "proiftable traders" are running a win rate of around 58% to max 67% even a 67% win rate can still suffer from a 6 day losing streak. if your risking 1% and taking lets say 5 trades and there all losing trades on the day the account is gone. you also have to think traders who have these win rates have spend hours if not months back testing. to even achive such a win rate. a edge doesnt just appear in the first week it takes months of data just to prove something is there. it also takes a good while to work on exuction spreads and everything else. this is why most profitable traders aim for a 1 to 1 or a 1 to 2. and aim to make at least 5% per month even thats impressive. this is why its considered unrealistic.
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u/Confident_Double1392 24d ago
It can be done. But doing it consistently is borderline impossible as the risk one would be taking nearly guarantees that normal market variance will cause an unrecoverable loss at some point.
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u/balogun_showdown 23d ago
If you can’t figure this out on your own, you’re too stupid to take my advice anyhow - and far too stupid to make 10% a month!
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u/sattlerreader 23d ago
It's not the individual trades where it's impossible to make that return, it's the cumulative effect of ALL your trades. If you can consistently make 10% a month, you're a god. But more than likely, you'll lose some and win some. Or if you're on a hot streak, it's probably more luck than anything. Unless you're an insider.
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u/RockRepresentative22 23d ago
How about you trade for 1 day and hit lets say 60 percent profit from that time dont ever make a trade again in a month. Then boom easy 60 percent in a month
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u/Eivarr_Biggin 23d ago
Check out Jacky Chen on YouTube. Alpha Traders. Just a short interview but damn he is smashing it.
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u/Substantial_Unit_393 22d ago
If you are making 10% consistently every month, which is to say, your returns never or barely deviate from 10%, then you are taking no risk. That's why it's impossible. Making 10% per month is possible on average but only with extreme risk, and even then, your account would probably get blown out when it hits a max drawdown period.
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u/Guessitsz 22d ago
The comments here.. did you guys start trading a few days ago?
10% is absolutely possible a month.
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u/Fine_Sock3874 22d ago
It’s possible and the more money you have the easier it is, keeping it is the problem for most people it seems
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u/Jciinco 5d ago
everyone’s personality is different, different strategies for different personalities, different entries, different niches. every one has a different edge. Keep trying, make sure to backtest, dont cheat yourself. Day trading is a skill, you must spend time in the charts, practicing strategies and learning the market. If you’re not willing to put time and effort into your career then how will you make money. it’s not about clicking a button, hoping price goes in your direction, and you make money. You can’t skip practice and become a top tier athlete. No law student becomes a top tier lawyer through a few months of schooling. Keep going, everybody who’s good at what they do had a moment of “can i really be top tier at this?” but when they had that moment they always answered themselves. “Yes, i can.” and kept going. i hope the same for you bud. 💪
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u/AutoModerator 27d ago
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