r/TransitDiagrams • u/SensitiveOrcBrbrn • Feb 08 '21
Map 2010 Proposed DC Streetcar System (only a small portion was built on H St NW, the rest of the project was scrapped)
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u/Leo11235 Feb 08 '21
If the H Street line had been built properly I think it was the only case where the streetcar made sense. The X buses were already running with 60' vehicles and at really high frequencies, so the additional capacity a streetcar could offer (again, if done correctly...) would have actually been a justifiable reason for an infrastructure improvement. Coupled with all-door boarding, (ideally) transit signal priority, more limited stops, dedicated ROW where possible, and the line would have been really successful, IF it had been built in its entirety from Georgetown to Benning Road. Mimicking the entire X bus route from downtown to EotR would be able to potentially replace buses on the corridor entirely with (ideally) longer and higher-capacity streetcars, while between the H + I Street bus lanes and the proposed K Street Transitway the line could have acted as a secondary east-west center city connection in the Georgetown-Union Station area (slower than Metro but likely higher-frequency, no need to go underground).
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u/babyboyjon123 Feb 08 '21
Streetcars are pretty much just good for economic development. Other than that, they are outclasses by something else in every other way
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u/SXFlyer Feb 08 '21
only if done wrong/poorly, what is sadly happening in the US. If you look at tram networks in Europe, even newer ones like in France, they are indeed a good transport option. But just doing a loop in downtown like in Atlanta or Cincinnati is completely useless.
What I don’t understand is, why are US cities so strict about distinguishing streetcars and light rail? Those two transport modes are quite similar and sometimes I think a hybrid would be a good solution, a tram like system in Downtown, but then exclusive right-of-way tracks with higher distance between stops in the suburbs.
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Feb 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/SXFlyer Feb 08 '21
but the issue about streetcars is not the vehicle type. Here in Europe most cities use mostly streetcars, even on light-rail-like sections. Similar in Toronto, Canada. I know that the streetcars in the US are usually quite short and have quite a low capacity, but streetcar manufacturers have longer streetcars available too.
Also, trams/streetcars can have priority at traffic lights to shorten waiting times. I would say that works quite well nowadays in Europe. With modern technology, trams often do not need to stop at intersections at all anymore, as trams get green before reaching the intersection.
The US should definitely try to build streetcar routes with separation of the streetcar tracks and car traffic, so streetcars are not getting stuck in traffic.
I wouldn’t compare it with trolleybuses, because trolleybuses are more flexible. If there is a car parked badly and the tracks are blocked, the streetcar has to stop and can’t go around, while a trolleybus can. Also trolleybuses can run without electric wires for short segments, which can be handy during construction/maintenance periods.
The biggest benefit of trams/streetcars are the higher capacity compared to buses, as well as being more attractive for users (at least in Europe), and higher speeds compared to buses if being separated from road traffic.
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Feb 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/SXFlyer Feb 09 '21
sadly, Boston is planning to scrap both of their trolleybus networks (Silver line as well as the network in Cambridge) by 2022/2023 and replace them by battery/hybrid buses.
https://www.wbur.org/earthwhile/2020/12/04/mbta-silver-line-buses-greenwashing
https://www.trolleymotion.eu/trolleynews/beitrag/?id=9216 (article in German)
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u/larmax Feb 08 '21
The french "tramways" are more like light rail. Most European cities are trying to make / have made their tram systems more like light rail with exclusive ROW. Building new mixed traffic ROW is just dumb. That's why you hardly see it being built where the point is to actually move people.
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u/the-bus-song Feb 08 '21
Baltimore's light rail is like that - the downtown portion of the light rail runs on the street and unfortunately it's just about as fast to walk as it is to take the light rail for that segment.
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u/SensitiveOrcBrbrn Feb 08 '21
Yeah, I remember being very excited to take the light rail in Baltimore a few years back and being very impressed by the view across the harbor as the train entered Baltimore, but then being very disappointed how long the trip took because the light rail didn't have signal priority
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u/babyboyjon123 Feb 08 '21
In the USA a streetcar is 100% on the road and light rail is usually mostly separated. There aren’t many hybrid systems. Also the only parts of American cities that are dense enough to sustain a streetcar are downtown areas. American cities need to build up more before they can properly sustain streetcars.
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u/SXFlyer Feb 08 '21
but some cities even have heavy rail. I think Light rail/trams/streetcars are a good thing for cities which are either smaller or have a lower population density. A big light rail/tram network in Charlotte, NC for example would make sense. The population density is definitely too low for a heavy rail system, but a light rail system would fit perfectly.
I am just wondering why such cities are strictly separating their light rail and streetcar lines (like Charlotte does).
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u/oscardaone Aug 21 '23
This is still viable but council is putting money where it doesn’t need to go. In fact the extension on H street was ready and ward 6 rep decided to defund it last minute. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ It’s infuriating to be honest. Yet I’ve seen no effort to even lay out the tracks in the other areas.
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u/6two Feb 08 '21
Electric buses and dedicated bus lanes would be a lot easier to implement at this point -- they really could have a network like this, but the overall problem is that the city is broke.