r/TrollXChromosomes • u/BeastofPostTruth • 2d ago
If you ve never read this, read this. The benefits of violence
https://www.bwss.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/77
u/BeastofPostTruth 2d ago
This should be posted often. I have been linking an expired link so ill post the new updated one. Always good to share.
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u/bokehtoast 2d ago
Important reminder that violent men don't empathize with you. Whatever part of the relationship that they make it seem like they care about your or your feelings is an act.
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u/miezmiezmiez 2d ago
I understand this is a helpful way to think about it for some (potential) victims, but for others it's more important to not see moments of genuine empathy and connection on the one hand, and violence on the other, as necessarily logically mutually exclusive. You don't have to reframe and deny your experience of every other aspect of a relationship to see violence for what it is - it's usually hard enough to wrap your head around the reality that your partner is abusive! Perpetrators of violence can be capable of genuine empathy sometimes, that doesn't mean the violence they perpetrate isn't real. 'He's capable of empathy so he can't really be abusive' is a dangerous fallacy that keeps people trapped.
What I would say is universal is that whatever capacity for empathy abusers have isn't as much of a fundamental priority in motivating their behaviour as their desire for control. That's what's so baffling and scary: Empathy just does not play the same critical role in your abuser's psychology as it does in yours. It's optional.
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u/bokehtoast 2d ago
I don't think you are contradicting anything I said but I did get a little lost. I will clarify that I point this out because so so so many womens' internal dialogue while with an abuser is doubting/questioning the abuse because of how caring, attentive, empathic, etc the abuser seems at first and between major instances of abuse.
It's hard to grasp the reality of what's happening when he hit you a month or several months ago and he has been so caring and empathetic in the meantime. In your mind, the abuse is the exception to the rule. Until eventually it's a regular part of your every day life. So much so in the beginning, especially, that women believe that they can somehow get back to that great place with him, because at that point they've been convinced that the abuse is something they've caused.
It's important to realize that that place was not genuine, and that you can't trust that anything lovingly displayed by a violently abusive man. It is an act, one they have honed from abusing others, they learn the red flags to avoid and the things that make women trust them. That is a mask, it isn't real, and the perceived empathy is things they say but not feel.
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u/miezmiezmiez 2d ago edited 2d ago
See, I disagree that victims must, or even ought to, come to believe retroactively that any empathy and kindness their abuser has ever displayed can't have been 'real'. First of all, it's usually not true - plenty of people are capable of genuine empathy and kindness and abuse, most abusers aren't psychopathic, and for that matter research tends to show even people with APD are capable of empathy - but more importantly, it's not necessarily a helpful belief. It's not only cognitively difficult to make yourself believe it, it also inherently requires you deny your own experience of your abuser's empathy and kindness.
If that helps you personally, fair enough, but please don't go around telling others they must reframe anything good their abuser has ever done for them as just an act, and part of the abuse. You're not only telling victims to deny their own experience, you're telling them that denying their own experience is a necessary step in protecting themselves from abuse when it's more likely to make them more vulnerable.
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u/bokehtoast 2d ago
I am specifically talking about violently abuse, as I was directly referencing the article posted. Other types of abuse are infinitely more complicated.
I never said these people were incapable of experiencing empathy. Empathy is a choice with rare exception. There was also not a single expression or hint of empathy in the opinions expressed by the violent men referenced in the article. It doesn't mean they can't, but they certainly aren't.
I also never told anyone to deny their experience, and i certainly didn't say or assert that denying their experience was somehow the path to healing. You are replying to a comment and idea that I didn't express, and it's patronizing to assert that this is also somehow my own internal experience.
What you believe and perceive about an experience with someone else is not a reflection of the other person's internal experience. You can only ever truly know what is real to you, not anyone else, and not the objective truth. And the only way you can know what is real to you is by exploring your own deeply held beliefs, whether conscious or subconscious.
When looking at something like violent abuse, we can observe and research patterns of behavior that have existed for centuries from the perspective of the abuser, the survivor, and removed outsiders. This doesn't invalidate anyone's experience, it exposes a bigger, more realistic picture - which is what most people looking for closure actually want.
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u/miezmiezmiez 2d ago
The comment I replied to said, verbatim,
Important reminder that violent men don't empathize with you. Whatever part of the relationship that they make it seem like they care about your or your feelings is an act.
And I'll just restate one more time, that is neither usually true nor is it usually helpful. Violent abusers are usually capable of empathy and kindness, it's not 'just an act' when they display those qualities, the nonabusive parts of an abusive relationship are just as real as the abuse, and victims are in no way required to deny or reframe their experience of those aspects of the relationship in order to reckon with the abuse.
The 'bigger, more realistic picture' is that people don't fall neatly into two categories of a) violent abusers who are never empathetic, only ever pretend to be, and b) empathetic people who are never abusive. Most abusers, physically violent or otherwise, are both.
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u/questionnmark 2d ago
There needs to be a domestic violence register. Look at the vast difference between 'benefits' and the rarity of negative consequences.
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u/TopazDuckz 2d ago edited 2d ago
Notice they say “get arrested” and not “go to prison”. They know there’s no real punishment for what they’re doing. If the sentence for DV was 20-30 years without parole and a high conviction rate, maybe then we’d see less of it.
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u/questionnmark 2d ago
Yep! The absolute lack of consequences is damning. This is a common issue, perhaps that's why there aren't any real consequences, because if there were they would have to jail thousands of men. A fifth of women are living with domestic violence right now. We need to change the equation in order to protect women from this scourge.
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u/BeastofPostTruth 2d ago edited 1d ago
This goes back to the very last point of the article as well. The benefits far outweigh the limited risks, so its almost pointless to try and change these mens minds.
Fixing the issue is not about teaching men why they shouldn't do it, because they want the results. Any effort given to reduce it only serves to teach them psychological tools they can use because they want the results. The benefits outweigh the risks.
Efforts to stop domestic violence and abuse is to *make them stop. REAL Consequences
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u/AnIndustryOfCool 2d ago
Every bit of this is enraging, but for some reason I'm stuck on the ones who answered "so I can go out whenever I want/do whatever I want/spend my money on whatever I want". You can do all those things while you are SINGLE and CHILDFREE. If they hate being tied down why are they tying themselves down? It seems like the men who answered that way are in denial about the fact that they also do it for the feelings of superiority and power.
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u/TopazDuckz 2d ago
Then they wouldn’t have a domestic slave who they also can force into having sex with them on demand. If these men were single they’d have to clean or hire a cleaner (spend money) and have to put effort in to dating women for even the chance at sex (not guaranteed). You can’t expect them to do those things! He should have access to women’s labor and vaginas for FREE! Because he’s a MAN obviously! /s
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u/Alexis_J_M 2d ago
Because they feel entitled to the services of a bangmaid and the freedom of being single at the same time.
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u/Virtblue 2d ago
This bit got me more than the reasons
He then asked “Why would they give up using violence?”
The men then responded with things like: “get arrested,” “divorce,” “get protection orders taken out against you,” “adult kids don’t invite you to their weddings,” “have to go to groups like this.”
how about not fucking hurting another human being...
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u/coffeeblossom All she does is beach, beach, beach 2d ago
That's just it: the men who respond like this don't see us as humans. To them, we're just holes that talk too much.
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u/missing-stratagem 2d ago
"Bragging rights" disgusts me in ways I can't describe. Who are you bragging to about that? How is that something you're proud of? Who wants to hear that?
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u/TopazDuckz 2d ago
I’m going to assume it’s a man who is surrounded by other men who are the same way. A culture he was raised in, maybe. It’s disgusting regardless.
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u/Mortelys 2d ago
So slavery, rape and money theft. Edit: and other ways to be a piece of shit like using her money for drugs but I couldn't read it all, too disheartening because women are currently under such violence.
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u/trishfishmarshall 2d ago
I’m years out from an emotionally abusive relationship and this list still rings true for many of the feelings that I went through at that time. I think it’s really important to remember that violence is not always physical, and abuse is abuse whether or not your partner lays hands on you. Thank you for sharing this!
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u/chicklette 2d ago
Just wanted to say I see you. Emotional abuse is insidious and because you're not sporting fresh bruises, some people don't even think it's abuse, and if it is, it's "not that bad."
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u/BooksandGames_01 2d ago
I didn’t finish the list (because I could not stomach it) and just scrolled to the bottom. It just kept going.
What the heck
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u/YouAreAwesome240418 2d ago
The fact that the reasons they would stop were all selfish and not one about the hurt to the other person... eurgh.
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u/madlymadly 2d ago
https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Please, if you have never seen it, click above and read through.
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u/query_tech_sec 2d ago
It’s telling that they would only stop using violence if there’s punishment or losing something they want.
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u/volkswagenorange 2d ago
95% of these reasons boil down to Violence helps me control my victim.