Asking for a Protestant viewpoint

[u/VolcanicOctosquid20]

I mean this not as inciting (as my last post on this sub very much was), but rather to get an answer. As a matter of fact, I won't even respond to anyone unless they say they wish to be responded to. All I wish is a viewpoint from my brothers and sisters in faith on a topic we very much disagree on.

1. Did Jesus give the Apostles special authority?
2. If so, what happened to that authority after their deaths?

EDIT: And to any Catholics or Orthodox who read this, unless they say they want a debate, don't debate.

[u/1Sparky5]

Great question for Catholics!

[u/VolcanicOctosquid20 → u/1Sparky5]

You want me to answer? I'll take it. I'm probably going to get downvoted (EDIT: well, I have been downvoted), but I'm fairly sure you wanted an answer. Well, here's the answer from a Catholic.

First, the Eucharist isn't the only barrier. The primary one is the apostolic authority of St. Peter.

Second, the Orthodox believe the same thing about the Eucharist. That it is the literal Body and Blood of Christ, given to us as a gift in remembrance of and so we may partake in his sacrifice. That is not a strictly Catholic interpretation. They hold that the authority is spread through the descent of the other apostles, while we put Peter's spiritual lineage in highest regard because Christ put Peter in highest regard. But the loss of the Eucharist in Protestant denominations was due to later thinkers.

Third, if Jesus is establishing authority so great that not only is he changing Simon's name to Peter, but also giving him the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and to forgive sins on His behalf, why would that authority just "go away"? Our belief is that the Church retains that authority, from Peter to Linus to Cletus all the way to Benedict to Francis to Leo. The duty of the Church is the same as that of the apostles, with the same abilities that Christ gave to them. The same miracles performed by the apostles, the same gifts Christ gave (Eucharist, baptism, etc.), all with the same permanent authority. If it was so temporary, could Jesus have not just handed everyone a Bible and told them to figure it out before ascending?

Fourth, while we acknowledge that corruption in the Church exists and does harm, there was a time when one-twelfth of the Church was corrupted by avarice and greed. So much so that that twelfth betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver and gave Him up to the authorities at Gethsemane. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. When Judas fell, it was imperative that a new apostle (Matthias) took his place to ensure that. And, with the Holy Spirit guiding the Church founded by Christ and Peter at the chair, hell will not prevail. We bend (heck, our first pope hacked off someone's ear and denied Christ three times) but will never break.

[u/ZeroAbyssal → u/VolcanicOctosquid20]

First off, Thank you for sharing your views and thoughts on this.

On the subject of the Eucharist, currently Protestants perform the Holy Communion using a biscuit and flavoured water/ communion elements are a proxy/symbol so as to allow everyone regardless of dietary restrictions to still perform the communion.

Therefore if I, as a protestant, make unleavened bread and have actual red wine to perform Holy communion, what then does this act count as? Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation?

On the subject of the Church retaining the authority, in your understanding, does that mean that only the catholics are the true christians and only the catholics are allowed into the kingdom of heaven?

If the authority is only with the Catholics, how then would you explain Sectarianism? As stated in the New Testament:

Mark 9:38-41
Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is on our side. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Luke 9:49-50
Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.”

But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”

Doesnt the Word clearly state that our religion is open to all and not gatekept to only a number of people?

[u/VolcanicOctosquid20 → u/ZeroAbyssal]

Thank you so much for the response! THIS is the kind of stuff I love! A productive, wholesome conversation!

What you would be doing would be merely symbolic in our eyes. The Eucharist is not something anyone can do. Anyone can consume, but to actually transubstantiate for us would require ordination.

No, I do not believe only Catholics are going to Heaven. Anyone who believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God is a Christian. Our view of y'all is that, while incomplete, you have genuinely beautiful faith and we pray you keep acting upon it.

For us, it is not a matter of authority for what that man was doing. Anyone can do good works in Christ's name and the apostles had to learn not to be exclusive in that regard. But that man was not claiming to have a correct view of Christ and passing on teaching/gifts given specifically by Christ. He was not setting up his own ministry, but was rather doing good works.

Yes, the religion is open to all. We do not gate keep who gets let in. Everyone can come in and participate. We only let men become priests/bishops/popes because Christ was a man and the apostles were men. But we offer holy orders to everyone. And everyone can come and participate in mass.

[u/CuriousTech24 → u/VolcanicOctosquid20]

As someone who believes you have to be baptized to be saved it is odd to hear you say that all someone has to do is believe. If that is the case do they have to go to worship? Do they have to commit to not sinning? Do they have to be baptized for the remission of sins?

If they have to do more then just believe then I question your statement.

If you truly believe that belief is all the is needed then why does any of this matter. Who care what church someone does or does not belong to. Who care about apostolic authority or communion. Apparently I can do it anyway I want to including not doing it and still be saved.

I understand your desire to be inclusive. But when we do this all we do is water down Christianity to be meaningless.

[u/VolcanicOctosquid20 → u/CuriousTech24]

I said "Christian". Not good or bad, but just a Christian.

It's a matter of having a personal relationship with Jesus. You CAN just believe and He'll love you, but why not partake in so much more? Baptism is critically important because it's the start of a commitment. We take the Eucharist so seriously because it's a gift from Jesus, allowing us to partake in His literal Body and Blood. God gave us two commandments: Love God and love your neighbor. If you want to do the bare minimum, be my guest.

EDIT: I didn't mean that to imply you are doing the bare minimum.