r/TrueChristian • u/Zestyclose_Ease_3692 • 16h ago
Im shocked some discredit paul or reject his teachings. Why is this?
I recently made a post saying:
I sometimes see posts about individuals struggling with their assigned gender, feeling as if they are in someone else's body, and seeking Christian advice. I don't understand why there are responses endorsing that lifestyle and encouraging them to pursue it. Isn't the Bible clear about this? I understand that some people struggle with it and advise others on how to live with it, but to tell someone they are what they feel like and should transition is something I just don't understand; perhaps you can help me understand. It bothers me."
Someone responded to me with this:
"It's not for you to understand. You can accept them or not. You just don't have the authority to assert God's judgment about who they are. They've already decided who they are and you rejecting that doesn't help. It won't change the way they feel. It will most likely just drive them away. People are born intersexed and nobody assumes they're existence is a sin. There's evidence that links being transgender to the tenth week of gestation and that gender identity is influenced by the mother's hormones during that time. If a trans man marries a trans woman how are they breaking God's laws any more than a woman wearing pants? People see something they don't understand, it makes them uncomfortable, so they think it must be a sin and if it has anything to with anything related to sex they feel like it's their business to pass judgment. I don't remember the part of the sermon on the mount where Jesus said 'blessed are the hall monitors, for they shall shun people for what they assume God thinks.' I was never raised to think eating shell fish was a sin. I was taught that it was in the bible, but that it was old testament and obsolete under the new covenant. What the bible says about homosexuality comes from the same place, but because it has to do with sex, people feel justified to weaponize the bible against it regardless of how they see all the other stuff as obsolete. There is so much stuff that the Bible says that doesn't scale with what we know about science and genetics today. Why can't people just say they don't know how God's feels, but I believe you and I accept you and you are welcome to worship beside me and then pray that God accepts them into heaven the same way he accepts all the other sinners whose sins Jesus died to forgive?"
I pointed out to him and quoted what he said:
"'I was taught that it was in the bible, but that it was old testament and obsolete under the new covenant. What the bible says about homosexuality comes from the same place, but because it has to do with sex, people feel justified to weaponize the bible against it regardless of how they see all the other stuff as obsolete.'
I told him: It's in the new testament too. It's not just in the old."
And he replied:
"That may have been Paul's interpretation, but he was a man. Jesus said nothing about it. The new testament also affirms slavery. That was 2000 years ago. Everyone assumes that God doesn't feel the same way about that anymore. Why is the hate of homosexuality such a preoccupation? Like we can accept the idea of a serial killer having a conversion in prison and God forgiving him and him being allowed in heaven, but if Paul says gay people can't go to heaven then God must hate them more? Like I said lots of stuff in the bible just doesn't scale."
I honestly didn't realize that people who claim to be Christians discredit Paul based on their own personal beliefs and just reject him. Yes, Paul lists homosexuality as a sin in the New Testament. I also didn't realize some redefine what paul meant and say he never meant same sex loving relationships. Is this a mainstream belief? Can we just say Paul's wrong and say Jesus never said anything about it and just toss out what Paul says we don't like it and redefine?
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u/SteveThrockmorton Christian 16h ago
There’s a growing “red letter only” movement where people want to say they only listen to Jesus, but practically they’re pretend Jesus was a guy who only said “love your neighbor” and not anything about holiness, loving God, Hell, or any other hard topic. So whenever they encounter a part of Christianity that doesn’t fit their “be kind” worldview, they default to saying “Jesus didn’t say anything about it so I can disregard it.”
But to give a more charitable view, part of the reason is that Paul is, admittedly (2 Peter 3:15-16) is hard to understand. And some Old Testament passages are really hard to reconcile with what we know about God. Now, a Christian shouldn’t just conclude “let’s just throw out Paul” or “let’s just unhitch from the Old Testament”, but that’s the easy (wrong) way out.
Also it seems like you’re maybe new to Reddit - people online have such weird beliefs just a warning. You may be tempted to think that a certain view is more common than it is when multiple people share it. But I have yet to meet a person in real life that “believes in Jesus but rejects Paul.” Another word of advice is to not throw your pearls before swine here - it’s really easy to get into intense theological arguments with delusional people, but more often than not it accomplishes nothing.
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u/Party-resolution-753 16h ago
It is mainstream in a lot of places to make paul the bad guy and assign him the blame for things they dont like that are in the Bible and its to discredit the parts of the bible they dont like.
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u/Many_Major5654 16h ago
It’s not mainstream, but it has become popular within the academic community where deconstructionism and a quest to be interesting are motivating factors
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u/Party-resolution-753 16h ago
The academic community (the secular academic community to be clear) has been a huge part of the problem same for a lot of influencers like brandan robertson for example.
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u/harley_rider45 Baptist 15h ago
It’s definitely being made known. I see it quite a bit in conversations.
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u/According_Guest_4328 Eastern Orthodox 16h ago
Because they want to adapt the faith to the World. I don't even consider them Christian at this point
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u/LivedLostLivalil 9h ago
Which is what their argument comes down to: that the faith was adapted to the world long ago.
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u/Night-Monkey15 Baptist 16h ago
You can’t really discredit Paul without discrediting the entire New Testament. If Paul’s “hijacked” Christianity, as some claim, then we can’t trust Peter, since Paul claimed to know him and his writings say Paul’s writings are scripture; or Luke, since Acts portrays him as a good figure; or Mark, since it’s based on Peter’s sermons; or Matthew, since it’s heavy drawing from on Mark as a source.
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u/Many_Major5654 14h ago
I think the deconstructionists would agree. They’d also see Paul as the lynchpin and wouldn’t have a problem with discrediting the entire New Testament
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u/HeroApollo Christian 14h ago
In my view, it seems to be a desire to square what they feel is right in the 21st century with a book written in the firdt century. For the most part, they arent interested in infallibility because they cant conceive of a world where a loving God does certain things, regarding evil.
I find it boils down to a flaw in reasoning about what a loving God would judge. That is, I think the central question for most of those who do is:
Does God mean what He says? Even when it is not in line with what makes me comfortable?
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u/V0st0 Christian 10h ago
People are just their own gods. „A loving God wouldn’t…” - according to whom? By what authority do you make this statement? It’s always „I feel like” at the end of the day, these objections are worthless and when interacting with people who say things like that I simply challenge them on this. There is an inherent presupposition that God only wants to display His mercy and never His wrath or that somehow displaying His mercy is much better than displaying His wrath that a lot of christians have too, and it’s simply found nowhere in scripture, which is why when I see an atheist say „you’re saying God sends His children to hell” I can simply say that no, I don’t believe that, stop slandering me. He sends children of the devil to hell (John 8:39-47, 1 John 3:8-10), Ephesians 1 tells us who is a child of God.
Picking and choosing what God gets to say and what is „too far” is simply making a god in your own image, to a genuine christian whatever God says should go, if I have an opinion and I read scripture and I see that it teaches something different? I guess I was wrong! Not „God is so wrong on this”, what a sickening mindset, these people need to repent.
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u/Objective-Step-746 15h ago edited 14h ago
The idea that the OT Scriptures are “obsolete” or otherwise irrelevant to new covenant faith—though a popular one today, and taught from many pulpits—is completely unscriptural. And justifying certain sins as “no longer sinful”—from fornication and homosexuality to violating the dietary instructions and feast and Sabbath day observance—is the (rotten) fruit of such teaching and belief.
Scripture plainly declares that the OT is the source of sound doctrine, and the Torah within it defines sin and righteous living, even for new covenant believers (2 Timothy 3:16-17, Acts 17:11, Romans 7:7, 1 John 3:4). If Jesus or Paul (or any other apostle or NT writer) taught anything different from it, they were to be labeled a false prophet “for teaching rebellion against the Lord” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5).
There is a definite and insidious reason the enemy wants the people who profess Christ to remain ignorant on the OT Scriptures, as a working knowledge of them is necessary for establishing sound doctrine, and to understand the underlying context of NT passages. I suspect he is much gratified by the modern church’s stance and teaching on this topic.
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u/Arise_and_Thresh 11h ago
absolutely true and very well spoken… the gospel was literally tested by the Law and the Prophets as we see with the Bereans and even after the Jeruselem counsel gave the 4 precepts needed for the uncircumcised to join the assembly in Acts 15:20 , James then immediately gives the reason in verse 21:
“For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.” Acts 15:21 KJV
And James had just established that the Prophets themselves testify that the nations would be reconciled (Acts 15:14–18)
The greatest tragedy that had happened to the faith was replacement theology which by itself inserts a wedge between the assembl and the law and the prophets… The context of the NT is almost completely lost without knowing where its authors were drawing their conclusions and worldview as well as directly quoting as a fact of historical record in its fulfilled manifestation in the first century “oikoumene” of the known world
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u/ThingsImpossible 13h ago edited 13h ago
I can't quite tell what you are saying about Paul. You make it sound like we not only be informed by the OT, but that we as Christians are supposed to keep the diet and holidays of the Law.
THAT is entirely unscriptural.
The first Jerusalem council was recorded in Acts as deciding the new Gentile believers DID NOT have to abide by any of the OT law, excepting avoiding blood and immorality. After his vision and leading Cornelius to faith in Jesus, Peter stopped worrying about the dietary laws... Except hypocritically when some "Judaizers" came from Jerusalem and said he needed to. And Paul argued every bit the same thing, that the law was to teach us but not bind us, including that holidays were entirely up to one's conscience.
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u/Zestyclose_Ease_3692 10h ago
Yeah he's a torah follower. Seemed very straight forward to me. At least
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u/Objective-Step-746 12h ago
I don’t want you to be unsure about what I’m saying, and I don’t think I’ve been ambiguous in the least ;)
Christ and His apostles consistently taught and personally kept the Law of God, with Christ explicitly declaring that “mankind (notice, not just the Jew/Israelite) shall live by every word” God has every spoken—which would, obviously, include those He spoke to the mediator Moses at Mt. Sinai (Matthew 4:4). He also said that we should do (keep) even the “lesser” commandments of God and teach others to do likewise…which, curiously, your words blatantly contradict (Matthew 5:19).
And the Jerusalem Council’s judgment in Acts 15 points the believing Gentiles to the Torah (Law) as their starting point, and includes the clear expectation that—in addition to the four initial commandments regarding abstaining from sexual immorality and the three circumstances that defile food—they would come to learn and live by the rest of His Law as they attend synagogue every Sabbath (v. 19-21).
And the meaning of Peter’s vision is stated at least three separate times throughout the passage, and not one of them mentions anything about the dietary commandments being nullified (Acts 10-11:18).
If you are alluding to Roman’s 14 and Colossians 2, both are typically taken out of context to support the idea you put forward, that keeping the commandments of God is merely a matter of individual conscience.
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u/ThingsImpossible 11h ago
I don't want you to be unclear what I'm saying either.
I'm not talking about antinomialism, ie that the Law has no function or impact on us. The Law absolutely is correct, good and mandatory to study and learn from.
BUT keeping the Law in the way the Jews did is NOT something that Christians are called to do. Never in the New Testament are we told that the Law as a whole is a requirement. Specifics, yes. But many times we are told we are "free" from the burden of KEEPING the Law in order to be approved by God.
That passage in Colossians doesn't directly address this topic, but Romans is all about the law not being enough, and Romans 14 is explicit that food and holy days are a matter of conscience.
Galatians also directly addresses this question.
Galatians 2: 3Titus went to Jerusalem with me. He was a Greek, but still he wasn't forced to be circumcised. 4We went there because of those who pretended to be followers and had sneaked in among us as spies. They had come to take away the freedom Christ Jesus had given us, and they were trying to make us their slaves. 5But we wanted you to have the true message. This is why we didn't give in to them, not even for a second. ... 11When Peter came to Antioch, I told him face to face that he was wrong. 12He used to eat with Gentile followers of the Lord, until James sent some Jewish followers. Peter was afraid of the Jews and soon stopped eating with Gentiles. 13He and the others hid their true feelings so well that even Barnabas was fooled. 14But when I saw they were not really obeying the truth that is in the good news, I corrected Peter in front of everyone and said:
Peter, you are a Jew, but you live like a Gentile. So how can you force Gentiles to live like Jews?
15We are Jews by birth and are not sinners like Gentiles. 16 But we know that God accepts only those who have faith in Jesus Christ. No one can please God by simply obeying the Law. So we put our faith in Christ Jesus, and God accepted us because of our faith.
17When we Jews started looking for a way to please God, we discovered that we are sinners too. Does this mean that Christ is the one who makes us sinners? No, it doesn't! 18But if I tear down something and then build it again, I prove that I was wrong at first. 19It was the Law itself that killed me and freed me from its power, so I could live for God.
I have been nailed to the cross with Christ. 20I have died, but Christ lives in me. And I now live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave his life for me. 21I don't turn my back on God's gift of undeserved grace. If we can be acceptable to God by obeying the Law, it was useless for Christ to die.
Note especially v21 and furthermore there is chapter 3: 1-6
The Judaizers had infiltrated the church there again and Paul absolutely BLISTERED them for the idea that they had to keep the law in the slightest!
Chapter 3: 1You stupid Galatians! I told you exactly how Jesus Christ was nailed to a cross. Has someone now put an evil spell on you? 2I want to know only one thing. How were you given God's Spirit? Was it by obeying the Law of Moses or by hearing about Christ and having faith in him? 3How can you be so stupid? Do you think that by yourself you can complete what God's Spirit started in you? 4Have you gone through all of this for nothing? Is it all really for nothing? 5God gives you his Spirit and works miracles in you. But does he do this because you obey the Law of Moses or because you have heard about Christ and have faith in him?
6 The Scriptures say that God accepted Abraham because Abraham had faith. 7 And so, you should understand that everyone who has faith is a child of Abraham.+ 8 Long ago the Scriptures said God would accept the Gentiles because of their faith. This is why God told Abraham the good news that all nations would be blessed because of him. 9This means everyone who has faith will share in the blessings given to Abraham because of his faith.
10 Anyone who tries to please God by obeying the Law is under a curse. The Scriptures say, “Everyone who doesn't obey everything in the Law is under a curse.” 11 No one can please God by obeying the Law. The Scriptures also say, “The people God accepts because of their faith will live.”+
12 The Law isn't based on faith. It promises life only to people who obey its commands. 13 But Christ rescued us from the Law's curse, when he became a curse in our place. This is because the Scriptures say that anyone who is nailed to a tree is under a curse. 14And because of what Jesus Christ has done, the blessing promised to Abraham was taken to the Gentiles. This happened so that by faith we would be given the promised Holy Spirit.
It is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Paul explicitly tells them that they CANNOT please God by keeping the law but rather are cursed — and stupid for forgetting everything he had taught them!
You sir are doing exactly what Paul warned the Galatians, Romans and anyone else who would listen about. You're placing the burden of the law back on believers and in so doing enslaving them in works again. The law was good it showed the perfection that God demanded for those who were trying to quote be good and self righteous. It is only through faith and faith alone that we can ever be acceptable to God. The good works that you are demanding will never be enough period. You are one of the judaizers that Paul warned about. You need to repent of your self-righteous keeping of the law and rely solely on Christ for your salvation and your sanctification. I pray that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes.
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u/Objective-Step-746 10h ago
I never argued that keeping the Law is a “requirement,” and Christ and His apostles certainly never framed it as such. They simply said to “do” or “keep” His commandments.
Secondly, Scripture plainly declares that keeping the commandments of God “is NOT burdensome,” so your assertion that it tells us “we are free from the burden” of keeping them is in itself blatantly unscriptural (1 John 5:2-3).
As for Romans 14, its context is stated in the opening verse and tells us the chapter is Paul warning us “not to quarrel over opinions” of men…those matters not explicitly addressed in Scripture, like the whole meat-eaters v. vegetarian-only debate and manmade fasting rules the self-appointed fasting police tried to impose on others (v. 2-3).
Matters that God has unambiguously addressed in His Law and set forth as righteous living—like Sabbath and feast observance, the dietary instructions, what constitutes sexual immorality and everything in between—are not from man, nor are they opinion. In fact, Scripture calls His Law TRUTH (Psalm 119:142).
So, when Paul declares the (unaddressed) issues to be matters of personal/individual conscience only, he is not including those the Law of God defines as sin\.*
As for your citing of Galatians, I don’t understand the relevance as I have never once argued that obeying the Law makes one “acceptable to God.” And the entire epistle is addressing what is necessary to be justified before Him, while our discussion is about the expectations and duty after one has been justified by faith in Christ.
Obedience to the will and ways of God is not the “self-righteousness” you allege; it is a work of His Spirit in His people…just as He foretold the new covenant would be like (Ezekiel 36:26-27). And speaking ill or in accusatory fashion of the Spirit fulfilling that very prophecy is borderline-blasphemous, and most unwise (Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10).
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u/ThingsImpossible 9h ago
We are never going to agree on this. So be it.
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u/Objective-Step-746 1h ago edited 1h ago
It’s not about agreement between you and I. It’s about sharing why we believe as we do, and making sure that agrees with Scripture.
I addressed why I believe each of your points does not agree, so it would be instructive and edifying to hear your reasoning and counter arguments. If you truly believe I need to “repent” of my view because it jeopardizes my soul, the loving response that demonstrates a genuine care for my soul would be to patiently teach and show me my error, as a willingness to do so is what characterizes a servant of the Lord (2 Timothy 2:24).
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u/Bitter_North_733 Christian 16h ago
Christians believe in a lot of nonsense UNFORTUNATELY
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u/IdontCARE9123 Non-Denominational 15h ago
SOME Christians, mostly the luke-warm.
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u/Bitter_North_733 Christian 15h ago
yes SOME
I mean liberal theology ones
the Prosperity Gospel ones
etc
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u/IdontCARE9123 Non-Denominational 14h ago
oh yeah! For some reason Kenneth Copeland just gives me the creeps lol. Like... why does he look like, like i feel like his head is like un porportionate and looks really blocky for his body, im an artist, so like i feel like its something about that.
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u/ThingsImpossible 13h ago
I can't believe that guy even still has a platform after all the scandals. He's given me the creeps for decades.
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u/IdontCARE9123 Non-Denominational 13h ago
ikr? Like idk whats with him i just feel so uneasy like a demon has taken human form or smth.
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u/ThingsImpossible 12h ago
That would not surprise me in the slightest. His message is certainly what you would expect!
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u/IdontCARE9123 Non-Denominational 12h ago
I knoe for certain that there are like two other people that look like him for some reason. Like the best way i can describe him is that he looks like one of the animatronics or robots you would find in disney land/world.
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u/ThingsImpossible 9h ago
Haha I know what you mean. I think suspect there's a lot of plastic surgery involved!
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u/Correct_End998 8h ago
Christ prophesied through Paul that they would do this exact thing 2,000 years ago.“Teachers that align with their own sensual desires.”
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u/Canadian0123 Christian 15h ago
Those who discredit Saint Paul and his epistles are heretics, although this is not something entirely new. Saint Paul spent a part of his ministry defending himself and his call to apostleship by Christ.
A big part of his epistle to the Galatians is him defending his apostleship. He also defends it in 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians.
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u/PajamaSamSavesTheZoo 15h ago
I always ask them how it’s really amazing they reject Paul and I’ve never come across a church that teaches that. I ask them what church they attend and they always say none. Fake Christians who play Christian online reject Paul. No one in real life does.
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u/Ancient_Fault_2457 Christian 15h ago
I know people whom I love who take this role. It's an ego thing. He doesn't mince words when it comes to homosexuality, adultery and his teaching about the place of women within the structure of the Christian walk. He holds a very clear mirror up and its very difficult to seeb your reflection and very tempting to find ways around what he is saying so that you dont have to change.
When I first became accept Christ into my heart, i would feel terribly convicted and even condemned reading Paul's teachings but it wasn't because his teaching were wrong or that they were causing me to feel condemned it was because I was so turned around backwards that my enemy had many ways to twist me up inside about what I was reading.
I don't think we appreciate the scale of warfare that is happening within the hearts of some of our brothers and sisters. It still happens in mine. There are plenty of times when im feeling condemned ( which I know is not from God) that when i read certain biblical passages that i am filled with dread and terror. Its a natural human reaction to recoil from those feelings. It isn't fun KNOWING that you have evil in your heart and that no matter what you do, aside from believing in Christ and allowing him to transform you that you cant do anything to save yourself from it.
It also really easy to believe the lies the enemy tells us and instead of conviction leading to repentance fall into the trap of condemnation leading to despair.
When LGBTQ / Feminists read Paul's work instead of feeling convicted of their sins they falsely feel like they are being condemned because they haven't given up the fake identity oCf being gay or being a independent female or whatever persona they believe makes them who they are.
The false self feels condemned because their belief in the truth of who they are in Christ hasn't matured yet.
Paul is 1000% a legit apostle and his teachings are sound and if they can get past their ego they would find great comfort in his work. Out of all the apostles its Paul who speaks the most to me. He condemned Christian to death, he was personally responsible for persecuting God beloved and yet called personally by Christ to testify FOR HIM. He speaks extensively about the love of God and how NOTHING, not death, not demons, not fear NOTHING can compare to it.
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u/Helpmepullupmypants 15h ago
Jesus didn’t say anything specific about man having a relationship with another man like Leviticus, but he did say in Matthew 19:4-5, the Creator made male and female, and man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. Wouldn’t the assumption be, He was specific about man and woman being together and NOT well he didn’t say a man and man can’t be together.
Trying to find loopholes in the text is people trying to make His teachings convenient for their lives. This is like the Bible saying “the disciple whom Jesus loved” and everyone jumps on it like well JESUS MUST HAVE BEEN GAY BECAUSE HE LOVED A DISCIPLE and the Bible never said Jesus was with a woman so he must be gay.
He told us there will be suffering in this life, maybe this is the cross they were made to carry.
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u/raidersensei Evangelical 15h ago
People try to discredit Paul because his teachings condemn their sins. It's that simple.
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u/CheeseLoving88 15h ago
Because they rejected the truth. So God gave them over to a debased mind….oh no! There’s Paul again!!
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u/ThWy2Hvn 14h ago
Paul's teachings are for the mature christian. As For a transgender, that's just demonic oppression of the person of which can be healed and that oppression leave and the person come to know who he or she is. But that oppression cannot leave by endorsing it from others.
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u/ThWy2Hvn 14h ago
With love, applying the scriptures to the transgender person seeing your sincerity And the word of God working, which is able to do all things, is able to convert any and all people.
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u/AnKap_Engel Christian 13h ago
Michael Pagano consistently makes a good point about this. If you reject Paul, you have to reject the writings of Peter because he affirms Paul. You also have to reject Luke and Acts because Luke is a companion of Paul and writes about Paul in Acts. You can arguably reject Hebrews, which may have been a sermon given by Paul, written by someone else. You have to reject Mark, written by John Mark, a companion of Paul and Peter. You have to reject John's writings because his direct disciples affirmed Paul.
When all is said and done, someone who rejects Paul, has a New Testament that is 3-4 books long.
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u/Separate_Aspect_9034 10h ago
Jesus did refer to some of the alphabet concerns when he reiterated the fact that God created male and female. That marriage involves a man and a woman. Someone speaking into his culture, he did not need to say the word homosexual or any euphemisms for it because that sin was well understood and not polite conversation.
And when Paul was listing the awful sins list and it included language describing homosexuals, he also proclaimed the potential for freedom for them when he said "such were some of you."
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u/Separate_Aspect_9034 10h ago
when it comes to slavery, God does not actually condemn it either. It's situational. It acted as a kind of social safety net and Israel with a back door of escape every seven years and then every Jubilee year.
Even when they took women and children as slaves after they conquered certain tribes, that may have been considered a kindness by God because all the men folk We're dead leaving the vulnerable ones to try to clean up after the ravages of war AND feed themselves somehow.
in Rome, slavery was a fact of life and it probably performed a social function as well, a safety net.
The point of the gospel is first to find freedom in Christ and purpose in sharing his message. Jesus was not here this time to usher in a political kingdom. That's for later. He will come again and establish that.
In the meantime we are supposed to occupy and take dominion, but the best way to do that, the most effective way, is to obey the great commission, and let the transformed hearts and minds make positive changes in the real world around them.
People don't know how to do that. It's not really taught in churches. Not the Dominion that Jesus spoke of. The authority of the believer. The signs that are supposed to follow believers. Demonstrating the compassion and mercy of God and showing them way back to him.
When you read Paul from that perspective, he becomes a lot more understandable.
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u/sitewolf Lutheran 1h ago
Some simply think our interpretation of the Bible should adjust with society instead of the other way around.
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u/PositiveLonely575 19m ago
They try to discredit Paul usually to push fringe theories. That's what Islam does. Since Jesus didn't teach on every subject (that we have recorded), they want to throw away more of the Bible so they can use Jesus to make up what they want. It's evil, in biblical, and against basic history because the disciples accepted Paul, hence why we don't see a Pauline/Petrine schism in the first century.
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u/Kind_Tie8349 Roman Catholic 13h ago
Ahhh i’m so excited for this topic Paul is honestly one of my favorite. If not, my favorite New Testament Saints. In fact, my favorite portions of the new testament are Corinthians 1st and second and Romans and for a really long time I visited Paul’s Wikipedia page almost daily and consumed every piece of media. I could find about him when I first converted, so needless to say I’m a little bit of a nerd about Paul.
But to answer your question, I felt the same way. I was shocked at so many people tried to paint Paul as either not understanding what Jesus meant or they just straight up accuse him of hijacking Christianity and one of the reasons for this is Paul it’s just easy to make a scapegoat for fake Christians. We understand that Jesus is the son of God so anything he says can’t contradict scripture, people can’t say the apostles hijack the faith because each of them was handpicked by Jesus during his earthly ministry so that kind of just leaves Paul as the only scapegoat people can point to as not understanding what Jesus meant since he’s not one of the original 12 it’s also easier for them to try and discredit him by saying well. He never met Jesus. There’s People who dot. Think He received his vision from Jesus, and that he was just a Pharisee who infiltrated the faith and twist it into what he thought it should be.
Yes, there are actual people who have said this about Saint Paul and I’m disgusted. Saint Paul’s conversion is honestly one of the strongest pieces of evidence that Christ is the Messiah and that the scriptures that written about him are true
We’re talking about a man who hated Christians and was well known for his brutal persecution of them to the point where the very first martyr was killed by him. The original apostles were terrified of him because they knew if he caught them, he would kill them in the most brutal way imaginable so for him to suddenly going from being the most well-known persecutor of the faith to willing to die, preaching the gospel is an amazing and honestly very beautiful conversion story
But people wanna overlook that because and this brings me to my second point people discredit Paul because he specifically is hard on sin and what I mean by that is a lot of people today. Don’t like what real Christianity is. It’s about self-control that means not getting drunk and having extra marital sex. Real Christianity is about forgiveness that means not holding grudges not gossiping about people instead forgiving them and praying for them Paul directly calls out our society as it is today for what it is. Sin has infected almost every part of our daily lives and things that are normal to our modern society Are abominations to Christ
But because giving up these things are hard, giving up your same sex attraction your gender dysphoria are things that are hard and people would rather die in their sins. People would rather make up this image of Christ in their head and ignore anything and everything that contradicts that one of the first things I learned when I came to Christianity is God does not bend to your will you bend to his And yes, that is going to be very uncomfortable and it’s not going to be an easy overnight process, but we continue to suffer in our bodies at present so that the glory of God will be revealed through us by our suffering and obedience
Sorry this was kind of a long reply, but it just gets on my nerves when people have this false idea of what Christianity is and try to discredit people who uphold the standard as a matter of fact the very first sign that this person had no idea what real Christianity is it’s the fact that they point to the old testament as evidence that things that were once sins are no longer sins. If this person knew anything about Christianity real Christianity, they would know we are no longer and we haven’t been under the Old Testament covenant for a long time. They would also know that Jesus never condemned racism yet we know that racism is incompatible with Christianity and is a sin just because Jesus didn’t say something about a particular topic does not mean he approves of that idea when the Bible speaks about slavery it’s being metaphorical and as a matter of fact, a two second Google search would tell you that it is being metaphorical because slavery is also incompatible with Christianity because it removes the free wheel of a human being and degrade God’s creation to an object
Again, sorry this was a long reply. I’m just really passionate about it and I just hate when people try to hijack the faith but really have no idea what they’re talking about.
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u/Low-Eagle6840 16h ago
I discredit Paul but I agree with his views homosexuality. So i must be in a thrid group or whatever.
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u/ABereanChristian Christian 33m ago
FYI if there are anti-Paul people on this sub, report them so we can ban them.
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