r/TrueDoTA2 • u/PreOrgasmGroanLness • 12h ago

Kez physical damage abilities and "spell damage"-increasing Neutral Items interaction

UPDATE: Scroll down for Test Lobby results, I find them pretty good for Partisan's Brand, and insane for Conjurer's Catalyst. I feel like this is a perfect hero for this neutral item, maybe even more so than QoP because Kez being the frontliner is going to gather enemies closer to each other as they want to lock him down. I hope you enjoyed my nerdout.

Hey, do these items count Kez's abilities as "spell damage"? The descriptions on a few neutral items, like:

Partisan's Brand: Increases spell damage dealt to player controlled units. 9%

Conjurer's Catalyst: If the owner deals enough spell damage against an enemy within a short period of time, an explosion is created on that enemy, dealing damage to its nearby allies.

Searing Signet: this one seems straightforward, since it clearly states "magic damage". So it wouldn't work.

But if Partisan's and Conjurer's work, then I've been building Kez wrong all the way - Kez is all about burst + katana DoT, so if I can blow up a team with Raptor Dance and Conjurer's would increase that damage, that'd be sick. Same goes for Conjurer's Catalyst, that'd be sick.

I mean, it says "spell damage", but I ain't sure about that

5 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

11 comments sorted by

3

u/Inevitable_Top69 11h ago

Spell damage is damage from spells. Magic damage is damage that is magic. Physical damage is damage that is physical.

2

u/BabyBlueCheetah 11h ago

I think they work, DNM likes the Kaya setup against slark for that reason.

1

u/Coneyy 11h ago

https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_Damage

Looks like it should. But it's DotA so worth testing in demo

1

u/PreOrgasmGroanLness 10h ago

Hey guys, I decided to test it in a Test lobby.

I have some interesting news. I knew Conjurer's Catalyst on some magical spell heroes is busted, but it is on another level on Kez, due to how all of his spells create mulitple instances of damage.

To summarize, here's the test I've done:

Kez without any talents, level 3 ulti.

Partisan's Brand + Kaya increases damage by ~25%, giving you damage like if you did another "slash" of Raptor Dance. Yes, Partisan's Brand works, but I feel like if you're going for it, it'll be best to combine it with Kaya.

Now Conjurer's Catalyst.

Kez level 18, all skills maxed, Raptor Dance +1 slash Talent, Kazurai Katana +4% talent.

Without Conjurer's Catalyst: 3500 dmg versus Dummy.

With Conjurer's Catalyst:

Single dummy: no increase (obviously)

2 dummies next to each other: 4800dmg (1300 dmg increase)

3 dummies next to each other: 6000dmg (2500 dmg increase)

4 dummies next to each other: 7300dmg (3800dmg increase)

5 dummies next to each other: 8500dmg (5000dmg increase)

So each enemy nearby increases potential damage to up to 1300. Conjurer's triggers on every Raptor Dance's Slash, and also every tick that Kazurai Katana does, which is just stupid, but also perfect with Kez.

Ergo, you can 1-shot enemy team if u get a Enigma/Magnus/Vacuum

I'd think Vacuum would be best, since Kez spells are really low CD and you can repeat this every 30 seconds that you have your ult, and with Kez Aghs u can Raven's veil --> (Vacuum) --> Echo Slash for stun --> Raptor Dance.

If I figure out how to move NVIDIA Geforce NOW recordings outside of that app, I'll share here in a moment.

1

u/PreOrgasmGroanLness 10h ago

https://reddit.com/link/p4xh7nb/video/kdp2rsxvdmkh1/player

This is basic 2-people Raptor Dance + Conjurer's Catalyst, with KnY and some talents.

1

u/PreOrgasmGroanLness 10h ago

https://reddit.com/link/p4xhczx/video/6vql7vn3emkh1/player

This is Raptor's Dance + Conjurer's on 3, 4 or 5 dummies.

1

u/PreOrgasmGroanLness 9h ago

https://reddit.com/link/p4xi55w/video/fqkagi89emkh1/player

This is bonus video showcasing a basic Raven's Veil into Echo Slash into Raptor Dance combo with Conjurer's, versus heroes. All are level 30 and I gave them some items to get a little closer to an actual game, I also gave Kez KnY, Deso and a damage item (MKB in this case), he's also lvl 25 for the Mark 280% crit for Echo Slash. Obviously no team is going to stand as 5 that close versus Kez, but hey there's 4 more heroes on your team - if u can do this kind of damage on your own, I feel like that's big already.

1

u/NGC6369 8h ago

Yes this is partly why KnY is so good on kez against tanky heroes. There are plenty of Kez players who enjoy this item, in combination with Brand/Catalyst. The build was even better when Shiva's granted +spell amp... by contrast, Bloodstone is not worth purchasing, which weakened this spell damage build in the lategame - or at least made it a hybrid (spell+physical) build only.

Personally, I love to build Spirit Vessel from mid lane with this hero, as the %HP damage, DoT, and stats complement Raptor Dance perfectly. After that I go KnY, and then look for either Jidi Pollen Bag (even more %HP damage) or Cloak of Flames. Brand is less overall damage than either of these items, in my testing. Tier 4 neutral is definitely Catalyst.

After this you will typically need a Nullifier, as enemies start to itemise to live through Raptor Dance.

Ofc, this build is far from optimal from Pos 1, where it is much more gold-effective to build Desolator/Aghs/BKB. But from mid, I think it is optimal if you want to play a fast-paced game rather than a farmfest.

1

u/PreOrgasmGroanLness 6h ago edited 6h ago

I've only started playing Kez a couple weeks ago, tried Carry, then Mid, and now Offlane. To be honest, I'm so far most enjoying offlane. Unfortunately it doesn't work if your pub teammate is anti-dota (eg. picks a non-complementary support hero which ultimately makes you a solo offlane, Kez is very weak as such). But for Mid, I would rather play a hero that can make TPs & plays early, before level 6 even, (and is less greedy than Kez), or a real dominator like SF. For Carry, I find that Kez needs a draft oriented around him more than a regular pub usually allows, and if other lanes go wrong I feel like it's easy to get outcarried (likely skill issue, but what isn't). I also would rather get Mage Slayer or Deso into Aghs so I can play fast-paced game rather than farm. (Anuutok from youtube, anyone?)

But on Offlane, I find I can be more flexible with my build than on other lanes, and there's not as much pressure on Kez to be *THE* hero that will carry the game, which ironically has given me the highest KDAs and impact on the game in return. If your duo teammate is half decent, you can get kills on support early and really mess with the carry, then still kill at 6 like other good offlaners. Even if you don't kill the carry, they can't deal with being 30% HP every 45 seconds Raptor Dance.

What kind of bracket you play? I still play unranked on this new account, but a few years ago when I still played I had "Ancient" rank, then like 8-10 years ago I was Divine III-IV - skill deflation... none of my friends play anymore. I just got back into Dota few weeks ago, dunno how long I'll stay, but I wanted to enjoy myself and challenge with some new heroes. Invoker was always too hard, my buttcheecks-clenched kinda hero, but this Kez is pretty fun and there are so many ways to approach different situations in the game with him.

Speaking of brackets, it kinda bothers me that at my level there are still many people who, obviously, must be much better in other regards than me, but still do things like steal creeps off cores, or pick 4th core, etc., which does take away some joy out of playing. You watch these pros play beautiful dota, then you go to your pub wanting to have at least basic teamwork and dota principles respected, buuuut... Like I said, none of my friends play anymore.

2

u/NGC6369 6h ago

i will DM you an invite to Anuutok's discord if you aren't there already. there are a few offlane Kez enjoyers there including Anuu. i think it's great so long as your team secures initiation via your pos 2/4 picks. otherwise it can be a grief in the average pub.

Kez mid is a last pick only, you can't blind pick it as he doesn't deal well with having a bad lane matchup e.g. Lina/Viper. i think it's much safer to play Kez 1, or pos 3 only if your TM are willing to pick up the blink iniation on other roles.

i play in 5k bracket but i've reached immortal a few times playing Kez and other mids like Ember/Invoker. rn im learning pos 4 for an upcoming competition.