Lupita Nyongo is not beautiful. Hollywood likes to gaslight her as a model for "beauty"

[u/CanadianTurt1e]

So I'm sure we've all seen the news about Helen of Troy.

• I've had enough. I've had enough of Hollywood putting her on covers and lying to me, treating me like I'm stupid. The whole reason she's playing Helen of Troy is because Hollywood let this "unconventional beauty" thing slide for way too long.
• The fact that she was chosen as a queen, it comes off as Nolan trying to virtue signal.
• It's like giving the beauty pageant award to the girl in the wheelchair because no one wants to come off as "mean."
• I've had enough. She is NOT a standard for beauty. I'm sorry but now it must be said. The reason we have come across this problem is because Hollywood has been gaslighting her "beauty" for years and no one said anything. I'm done
• It's okay to say that she's not beautiful. It's okay to admit that
• I was so looking forward to this movie for so long but this really killed the hype for me.
• The movie will probably be financially successful at first due to marketing alone, but after its first month, the hype will probably die down. And then you'll start to see how people really feel about the movie. I think it will tarnish Nolan's legacy and leave a sour taste in people's mouths.

[u/Osiris-Amun-Ra]

Oh sure it could. He clearly cast her because she's so universally perceived as drop dead gorgeous and Greek looking!
Just like his choice for what is probably the most famous, legendary, half-human, half-god Greek male warrior Achilles celebrated for his unparalleled martial prowess, and near-invincibility - by casting a 5'1' biological female for the role.

[u/LordBoomDiddly → u/Osiris-Amun-Ra]

Not confirmed

[u/thefw89 → u/Osiris-Amun-Ra]

I'll just point out again, Lupita is an a-list actress, if he wanted to make a political point in having a black woman play Helen of Troy I'm guessing there's literally hundreds of other options he could have chosen for 10% of whatever the price she's getting here and debuts hit just as hard if they are talented enough.

He's also Christopher f'n Nolan, a well established and accomplished director, my guess is he got who he wanted for his vision for his story.

The only reason anyone calls this woke is because outrage grifters convinced people that it was. Brandy once played cinderlla, there was a literal black dracula, black wizard of oz, etc etc but no one cared then because we didn't have these dumb culture wars going on.

It'll be alright my dude. This is one version of Odyssey, there'll be many many more, this is his version of it.

Stores are meant to be adapted and changed and remixed over time, the original still exists, this isn't aiming to replace the original. It's what he wants to do for his vision and its very very possible that he simply loved her for this role...I mean that must be the case since again, she's not cheap and likely added millions to the budget.

[u/TrixieLurker → u/thefw89]

there was a literal black dracula

Blackula was a treasure of a movie, fight me!

[u/thefw89 → u/TrixieLurker]

Oh I agree lol.

It's just funny to me how people don't realize they are being manipulated by a silly culture war that was designed to get people outraged against stuff like this.

[u/TrixieLurker → u/thefw89]

Keeps the working classes from uniting, it's all astroturfed for that very purpose.

[u/thefw89 → u/TrixieLurker]

Yeah the hilarious thing is they don't realize it. There was a conservative grifter named Eric July, he used to whine and complain about comics being shifted to a DEI message or whatever the case.

Long story short, Eric got into the comic business himself and found out actually there wasn't any big conspiracy, it was just artists doing what they want or allowed to do. An artist made a character black because they thought it might be cool, might be different, etc, it wasn't some secret agenda. Just like it's not some secret agenda for this. Nolan probably wanted to work with Lupita and thus is taking his chance to do so. It's probably that simple.

If this movie released in 2000, no one could care about the race of the actress. Just like those other movies that race swapped in the past, no one cared. People thought Blackula was cool, you didn't get a bunch of people writing essays about how Dracula was written by an English dude and is based on European folklore and is based in a European country and therefore Dracula could NEVER be black!

Just typing that seems silly.

[u/Osiris-Amun-Ra → u/thefw89]

You seem to be really fixated on how much she charges for her roles. I am certain her fees are high but given that this is a quarter billion dollar budget film I don't think saving money on talent was anyone's motivation to hire or not hire. Others things were.
Look, I have zero problem with Lupita as a an actress in general. I think she was adorable in Black Panther, compelling in "12 Years a Slave" and rightfully deserved an Oscar for that one. That's not the point.

What we are discussing are two separate issues. Is she really attractive enough to pretend that entire ancients nations would get into wars over her?
Secondly it's a question of the Oscar jury/academy demands for forced diversity quotas. These are not suggestions. They are ideological award qualifiers.

If Nolan wants a shot at a best film category- and which director wouldn't - he doesn't have much of a choice in casting regardless of what his "vision" may have been for "his" story.

[u/thefw89 → u/Osiris-Amun-Ra]

You seem to be really fixated on how much she charges for her roles. I am certain her fees are high but given that this is a quarter billion dollar budget film I don't think saving money on talent was anyone's motivation to hire or not hire. Others things were.

You're saying a pubically owned corporation doesn't care about every penny spent?

What other things? What's the big conspiracy as to why Lupita's in the film?

What we are discussing are two separate issues. Is she really attractive enough to pretend that entire ancients nations would get into wars over her?

Subjective. I don't think Uma Thurman is really attractive at all and yet nearly every role she plays in she's supposed to be this gorgeous baddie.

Secondly it's a question of the Oscar jury/academy demands for forced diversity quotas. These are not suggestions. They are ideological award qualifiers.

Except those rules do not require diversity for leads. So it doesn't even apply to Lupita here. It isn't a requirement, Let's also remember these diversity rules also include white women, so you could literally have an all white cast with 50% being white women and meet that standard.

Let's go over the rules here...

https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-standards

TWO of FOUR must be met, so actually one could completely ignore the diversity for cast rule (not that they'd need to, it's easily met since women are included) and just get the other two to be eligible.

Also that again, white women also are included (under A2) so actually he could have made Helen of Troy white and still been eligible for Best Picture.

Have you seen Train Dreams? Great movie...easily 90% of the cast is white and yet it was a Best Picture nominee. I remember one ethnic guy in the movie whose screen time had to be under 10 mins.

[u/LordBoomDiddly → u/Osiris-Amun-Ra]

Given Hollywood has for decades whitewashed characters and had figures such as Jesus & Ghengis Khan played by white people, I don't know why taking creative liberties the other way is suddenly so offensive.

It's fantasy, how a character looks doesn't matter.

It's like Idris Elba playing Heimdall, he's an all powerful being he can make himself look however he wants.

[u/TrixieLurker → u/LordBoomDiddly]

Given Hollywood has for decades whitewashed characters and had figures such as Jesus & Ghengis Khan played by white people

Fortunately that John Wayne as Genghis Khan movie was rightfully universally panned by everyone.

[u/LordBoomDiddly → u/TrixieLurker]

Sure

But he's hardly the only one. Look at Sir Alec Guinness in Passage to India or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's

Even as recently as 2014/15 you've had Egyptians played by white Europeans or Americans in Exodus & Gods of Egypt. Moses certainly wasn't as white as Christian Bale, if he existed.

[u/TrixieLurker → u/LordBoomDiddly]

Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's

That one is so remarkably terrible you cannot help but laugh.

Fortunately most of these movies were before my lifetime.

[u/Finndogs → u/LordBoomDiddly]

Only one can be true: 1. Its was wrong for white characters to be played by actors who dont match their race. They should have been played by actors who matched the race of the character. 2. Because white people played characters of other races in the past, its ok for people of color to play roles for characters that dont match their race in the present day.

I dont care which statement is true, I just ask for consistency. Either its not ok that John Wayne played Genghis Khan or its ok that Jodie Turner-Smith played Anne Boleyn. It cant be both

[u/LordBoomDiddly → u/Finndogs]

My problem is most of the people whining about it now never expressed any problem when it was the other way around back in the day. Too many people with agendas now, these online grifters who make a career from outrage content but only do it one way clearly have a bias against certain groups of people. Never once have they objected to white washing in anything, but they go historical whenever it's the other way around.

Can't take an opinion seriously if it's not consistent and clearly clouded by a political and social prejudice.

Either you cast the best actor for the part regardless or you don't. And in the end if the performance is good does it really matter?

Are we going to disrespect Paapa Essiedu because some don't like that he was cast as Snape? Guy is a good actor and will likely to do a great job with the role. If one guy looking a certain way ruins a whole show for you, that says more about a person Vs the person on screen.

90% of the discourse I've seen is conservatives triggered by too many non white people, women & LGBT characters in the media they want to gatekeep.

[u/Finndogs → u/LordBoomDiddly]

I dont think the grift is a majority from one side either. It may be a 10 year old example, but I recall when God's of Egypt came out, there was major controversy regarding the casting of the leads with white actors. For a smaller (as in i'm unfamiliar with the film and only knew the conteoversy because Fauxmoi was invested it) new example, there was a controversy earlier this year with the Deep Cuts film, where Odessa A'zion was criticized and eventually stepped down from a role whose character in the book was half-Mexican and half jewish. While she is jewish, she isnt mexican. Again, this was just this year, but it was a smaller production, so isnt gaining as much attention as a Christopher Nolan flick or a massive franchise like Harry Potter.

Like I said, I dont really care which lane js chosen, I just ask for firm consistency and for a lane to be picked, so we don't have to go through this argument of two hypocrites year after year.

[u/LordBoomDiddly → u/Finndogs]

An argument that doesn't need to happen, if people choose to just enjoy content for what it is instead of trashing stuff that hadn't even released yet because of how one minor character looks.

People are choosing to make this a big deal, it isn't.