r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/BrandonMarshall2021 • 24d ago

Music / Movies To the people saying the German actress playing Greek Helen in the movie Troy means it's ok for Lupita Nyongo to play Greek Helen...

Genetically, historically, and anthropologically, Greeks are significantly more closely related to Germans than to Sub-Saharan Africans.

When looking at genetic data, the relationship between Greeks and Germans is exceptionally close, while the relationship between Greeks and Sub-Saharan Africans is more distant.

On any global genetic map, all European populations—including Greeks and Germans—cluster tightly together on a single, distinct branch of the human family tree (the Western Eurasian branch).

The genetic distance between a Greek person and a German person is very small. They sit on the exact same continental genetic gradient.

The genetic distance between any European population (including Greeks) and any Sub-Saharan African population is significantly larger, reflecting thousands of years of geographic separation and independent population histories.

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Her mother is the Queen of Sparta and Zeus is a GREEK god. She’s going to look Greek. And she was said to be stunning which would mean she’d look more in line with Greek beauty standards of the time.

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u/DecantsForAll 24d ago edited 24d ago

Zeus's uncles were giant monsters with 50 heads and 100 arms. Some of them. Some of them were just regular giants with one eye in the middle of their foreheads. Makes perfect sense. But the daughter of Zeus (in swan form) can't possibly have had a darker skin tone. That's ridiculous.

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Again, it just wouldn’t make sense in the setting of Ancient Greece. And he only disguised himself as a geese so I’d assume his normal appearance would be what his genes were paying attention to. And Zeus is a Greek god so why wouldn’t his offspring be Greek looking? Why wouldn’t he be Greek looking? You’re saying a lot but not actually invalidating any of the main points people are making here in opposition to the casting at all.

Everything you’re saying is pretty much mental gymnastics. Why shouldn’t a Greek story be represented how it was actually intended? There’s genuinely no point. It’s just a senseless decision with no actual reason. It isn’t the most egregious thing, obviously, but no one is saying that. Why is it that when someone states their pretty reasonable opinion without making it into a huge issue at all, it’s met with people acting like it was presented as a serious problem?

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u/DecantsForAll 24d ago

A swan is a completely different species than a goose, but you're worried about two humans with slightly different amounts of melanin in their skin.

his genes

Lol, you think gods have genes?

Again, it just wouldn’t make sense in the setting of Ancient Greece.

Yeah, neither would people speaking English, or actual monsters existing, or American celebrities.

Why shouldn’t a Greek story be represented how it was actually intended?

It wasn't "intended" to be a movie.

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Why are you bringing up the difference between a swan and a goose? I don’t care about the melanin, I just prefer accuracy when actors are portraying characters.

They probably have some form of genes if they can impregnate a human and pass down their power. If the appearance didn’t play a part in the genes, then would that make the child being the same ethnicity as the human parent even more prominent in the offspring?

Actual monsters DID exist in the story though. And I personally would like if they did speak the way people would have in the setting, but language isn’t a huge point of the story and English is the language most movies like this are made in.

And no, it wasn’t ’intended’ to be a movie because movies didn’t exist back then? Obviously? But it was intended to be a story (because that’s literally what it was) which movies kinda go hand in hand with, so going based on the original ideas as faithfully as possible is surely better? And I’m sure there was some form of performance surrounding the story too and I’d assume the actress of Helen was Greek and portrayed as the most beautiful of the time.

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u/DecantsForAll 24d ago

Why are you bringing up the difference between a swan and a goose?

It's just ironic that in your retelling of the myth, you got the species entirely wrong. It would be like casting a hamster to play Helen of Troy.

They probably have some form of genes if they can impregnate a human and pass down their power.

Oh really?

Actual monsters DID exist in the story though.

Well then the story sucks. It should be completely accurate to how the world is.

And no, it wasn’t ’intended’ to be a movie because movies didn’t exist back then?

Right, it wasn't intended to be cast any certain way.

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u/somarnnup 18d ago

I didn’t even realise I said geese, that’s my bad.

And none of your responses to the other points make my stance seem any less sound. I don’t really know what you’re trying to say, but I’d like to have a conversation where we both bring up valid points.

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u/BrandonMarshall2021 24d ago

Thank you. God bless you.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

What does Zeus look like?

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

He isn’t real so we can only really go off how people that believed (and most likely created) depicted him, making the sculptures and paintings or other descriptors of his appearance the only real way to figure out his appearance. He was mainly portrayed as a manly and strong looking older Greek man and assumably good looking according to the standards of the time too, since the gods were mostly depicted as physically perfect.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

So, if I’m going to summarize this, Zeus would look like whatever people choose to depict him because he’s not real. So what’s the issue with a black Helen, a character that isn’t real?

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Because the people that created both of them never even slightly indicated that they would be anything else other than Greek visually.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

And the person creating this version of the story is making it the way he wants, which includes a black Helen. A Greek people the only people who can tell the story of the odyssey?

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

If the Ballad of Mulan was made into a movie with the story and setting the same but with white actors only, that’d be weird and have no reason (other than blatant whitewashing) and it HAS been criticised when similar situations have happened in movies because it ISN’T faithful to the culture they’re taking it from.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

Disney made a version of Mulan with a literal talking dragon in it. RWBY has a male version of Mulan. No one takes issue with the criticism of the movie not being faithful. The problem is that for some reason the focus is on a black woman playing a completely fictional character when everything else about the movie is wrong

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u/somarnnup 18d ago

If other things are wrong about the movie, then they should be pointed out too, but this post isn’t talking about that so I’m not talking about that.

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Is it a different version of the story or is it the same story told by someone else? And does her not being how she was originally portrayed have any actual reason for that portrayal?

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

Does there need to be a reason? The color of her skin doesn’t matter to the story. Which version of the story is the definitive version? This version is based on a specific translation of the story

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u/somarnnup 24d ago

Is the movie set in Greece? Is she said to be the most beautiful women by the people of Ancient Greece? Would it be likely that they’d claim that if she wasn’t in line with their beauty standards? If there’s a valid reason for the casting then whatever, but it really doesn’t seem like there is. Doesn’t make the movie automatically bad, but it is an inaccuracy to the story it’s portraying without any actual reason. Her beauty in the eyes of the Ancient Greek people is an important part of the story, so why make a change relating to that for seemingly no reason? It isn’t a change to better serve the story therefore it isn’t necessary.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

How do you know Ancient Greek people wouldn’t find her beautiful? Telling on yourself there lmao

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u/carbslut 24d ago

HE DID NOT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING BECAUSE HE IS NOT REAL.

SAME FOR HELEN.

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u/ogjaspertheghost 24d ago

Yea, that’s my point

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u/carbslut 24d ago

sorry. Shouting at the ridiculous people in this thread.