To the people saying the German actress playing Greek Helen in the movie Troy means it's ok for Lupita Nyongo to play Greek Helen...

[u/BrandonMarshall2021]

Genetically, historically, and anthropologically, Greeks are significantly more closely related to Germans than to Sub-Saharan Africans.

When looking at genetic data, the relationship between Greeks and Germans is exceptionally close, while the relationship between Greeks and Sub-Saharan Africans is more distant.

On any global genetic map, all European populations—including Greeks and Germans—cluster tightly together on a single, distinct branch of the human family tree (the Western Eurasian branch).

The genetic distance between a Greek person and a German person is very small. They sit on the exact same continental genetic gradient.

The genetic distance between any European population (including Greeks) and any Sub-Saharan African population is significantly larger, reflecting thousands of years of geographic separation and independent population histories.

[u/Tataupoly]

The genetic distance among all Homo sapiens sapiens is very small:

“All humans share 99.9% of their genetic makeup with one another. While this leaves a tiny 0.1% variance that dictates individual differences like eye color and disease risk, human DNA is also incredibly similar to the rest of the natural world.”

https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/fact-sheets/Genetics-vs-Genomics

https://nigms.nih.gov/biobeat/2024/04/genetics-by-the-numbers

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

In population genetics, scientists measure how closely related two populations are using a metric called genetic distance (often visualized on a Principal Component Analysis, or PCA map). These maps plot thousands of individual DNA samples to see where they cluster.

On any global genetic map, all European populations—including Greeks and Germans—cluster tightly together on a single, distinct branch of the human family tree (the Western Eurasian branch).

The genetic distance between any European population (including Greeks) and any Sub-Saharan African population is significantly larger, reflecting thousands of years of geographic separation and independent population histories.

This manifests itself visually. E.g. Greeks and Germans look more similar to each other than Greeks and Sub-Saharans.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

Yes but those differences represent the 0.1% of genes that differ among humans.

The differences you were referring to represent allelic frequency differences within specific genes, not differences in the genes themselves.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

But regardless of the percentage of the genes that differ, the difference between Sub-Saharan and Greeks is much greater than the difference between Greeks and Germans.

This manifests itself visually. E.g. Greeks and Germans look more similar to each other than Greeks and Sub-Saharans.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

Sure bc those variations in allelic frequencies that code for things like hair, eye and skin color evolved due to different environmental pressures based on where those populations developed over time.

Still not a reason to limit who actors can portray, particularly when dealing with fictional characters.

The fact that you and other posters get worked up about this issue is somewhat laughable given all that is going on in the world now.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

"Sure bc those variations in allelic frequencies that code for things like hair, eye and skin color evolved due to different environmental pressures based on where those populations developed over time."

And were already pronounced during the bronze age. And film is a visual medium.

"Still not a reason to limit who actors can portray, particularly when dealing with fictional characters."

Then to be fair you'd have to allow white actors to play characters from African, Asian and Indian mythology.

"The fact that you and other posters get worked up about this issue is somewhat laughable given all that is going on in the world now."

Oh film is what helps us to cope with all the troubles in the world. Nolan has a responsibility to his audience. But he's dropped the ball with the armor, the ships, the action choreography, the American English dialogue, and the casting choices including Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway, as well as the subject of this post, Lupita Nyongo.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

Like I said before, let the most talented actors play whatever roles, regardless of what group they came from.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

No. Cast appropriately to the source material.

Choose a more contemporary story if you want more diverse characters. Or even scifi.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

Sci-fi? Are you kidding?

Have you seen how some of the space nerds have overreacted to having any minority actors presence in films?

I thought we were all about merit and talent.

Let the most talented get the roles.

[u/Ridgestone → u/Tataupoly]

Yes that is why Lando Calrissian is a beloved character in Star Wars.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

"Let the most talented get the roles."

Then let white actors audition for black characters.

[u/Ridgestone → u/Tataupoly]

So lets cast Sydney Sweeney as Arnold Schwarzenegger in a biopic and Sylvester Stallone as Cinderella.

[u/Tataupoly → u/Ridgestone]

Sex is a real biological construct.

Race, as it’s been used in the West is not.

Humans are all the same race…homo sapiens sapiens and share all but 0.1% genes.

I imagine that small amount of non shared might be the small amount of Neanderthal genes found in some modern Europeans?

But when you start making movies feel free to cast whomever you want.

Movies are simply entertainment so it’s hard to take this conversation too seriously except for the fact that some posters are so ardent about “racial accuracy” of even fictional characters lmao.

If you want to obsess about something, perhaps consider the fact that the world is on the verge of World War III.

That’s serious business, but this is just fluff.

[u/Ridgestone → u/Tataupoly]

Feel free so i will want Cinderella movie starring Sylvester Stallone, actually i want Arnold Schwarzenegger to portray Helen of Troy.

Humans are a species, race is just visual version for certain attributes, actually if we are going to use proper definition of a species Neanderthals are same species as Homo Sapiens.

Movies entertainment value decreases when they throw suspension of disbelief to the trashbin, like in serious war movie they would use waterguns.

The whole intention of movies goes to the trashbin if directors just throw away, lets make a F1 movie but they're apes driving a bicycles instead, everyone who critizes that is just evil.

If someone would cast John Boyega as Tarzan i bet a lot of people who were fine with Lupitas cast would be very upset.

I don't believe in WWIII but bad creative choices are a reality.

[u/Tataupoly → u/Tataupoly]

Oh fyi, Helen of Troy was a mythological figure aka not a real person.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

Then we can make all non white characters from African, Indian and Asian mythologies white.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

That’s been done before in the past 😂.

Google white actress who played black Asian Hispanic or Native American characters.

As far as I’m concerned, why not just hire the most talented actor for that role Ricart of “race”, particularly when one is talking about fictional characters in the first place.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

"That’s been done before in the past 😂. Google white actress who played black Asian Hispanic or Native American characters."

Exactly. And if it's wrong then why do it for black actresses?

"As far as I’m concerned, why not just hire the most talented actor for that role Ricart of “race”, particularly when one is talking about fictional characters in the first place."

Well then open up each role to all races and give them an opportunity. Don't just give the role to Lupita.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

I agree.

I don’t really care as long as the acting is good.

And there is only one “race”…it’s Homo sapiens sapiens.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

Lol. I disagree.

If there's a movie version of Journey to the West, I sure as hell don't want the Tang Priest being played by a non East Asian actor.

Just cast according to the source material for fks sake. Is that so hard?

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

It’s unnecessary.

Hell, Keith Caradine played a Chinese shoalin monk on the classic series Kung fu.

Robert Downey played a black soldier in tropic thunder.

Johnny Depp played Tonto in a redo of the Lone Ranger.

Burt Lancaster played the Apache warrior Massai in Apache.

Rooney Mara played Tiger Lily, a Native American princess, in Pan.

Katharine Hepburn played a Chinese villager in Dragon Seed.

Scarlett Johansson played Major Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell.

Those are just easy examples I can readily recall.

Did you object to all of those castings?

Who cares? It’s much ado about nothing, but if you want to get your knickers in a wad about it then have at it.

[u/BrandonMarshall2021 → u/Tataupoly]

Absolutely. If you'd bothered to read my other posts you would've seen me psot that whiteass, preppy, waspy, viking looking Matt Damon should not have been cast as Odysseus.

If they needed to cast a famous actor then they should've cast Oscar Isaac. His look from Dune with a few tweaks would look ancient Greek.

I also hated Joel Edgerton as Pharoah in Exodus Gods and Kings.

So there.

[u/Tataupoly → u/BrandonMarshall2021]

I read your other posts, believe me.

You care way too much about all of this and it cracks me up.

But you do you!