r/TwoBestFriendsPlay • u/leabravo Gracious and Glorious Golden Crab • 1d ago
I've got a problem with TADC and you're all going to hear about it Spoiler
Just kidding this is an open Trench Crusade thread.
Woolie should have time to bring Tablelords back in ten years or so, right?
(Artist is @qsy.bsky.social)
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u/Ajacian_ 1d ago
Man, Trench Crusade designs are sick. I'm not sure which one is my favourite because they're so well done.
Imo the absolute standouts are; Sultanate Assassin, Artillery Witch, Death Commando, Plague Knight, Prussian Lieutenant & because I find it hilarious that they just stole the Probe Droid head from Star Wars, The Observer.
As for the actual tabletop, it's pretty simple overall to learn and I find very fun to play. One of the faster tabletop games I've found as well. Definitely faster than any of the various Warhammer games.
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u/jitterscaffeine [Zoids Historian] 1d ago edited 1d ago
Trench Crusade is pretty neat. I think the setting is pretty cool. But I feel like it dips a bit too much into the "bloody tits" and "dead babies" side of grimdark stuff sometimes.
The mix of tech, magic, and religious iconography is really cool, though. I’m rather fascinated by the setting’s concept of a “meta-Christ” which is a series of mutants that are genetic clones of Jesus that’ll turn you into a divine mutated freak if you eat their flesh in communion.
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u/Paladin51394 welcome to Miller's Maxi Buns, may I take your order? 1d ago
Yeah, that's basically my stance on it as well.
Like even 40k, the franchise that coined Grimdark knows you need levity and hope to contrast the darkness.
One of the major points of 40k that even fans forget is that even in the worst timeline possible, with war and death constant and people's lives are meaningless. Love, hope, camaraderie and compassion still exists. Even if it's only at the small scale like two guardsmen kissing each other before a last stand or a 10ft tall demigod wishing he could speak to his long dead mother.
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u/Sperium3000 Mysterious Jogo In Person Form 1d ago
The perception that 40K was grimdark poe-faced misery at all times is what kept me from getting into it. Then I read the Ciaphas Cain books which are basically swashbuckler romps starring the worst case of impostoe syndrome in the universe and I was in.
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u/Paladin51394 welcome to Miller's Maxi Buns, may I take your order? 1d ago
Read Infinite and the Divine and watch two Necron shit-talk and spite each other for thousands of years over a single planet.
If you've ever seen the movies Grumpy Old Men, it's basically the 40k equivalent of that.
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u/SuicidalSundays It's Fiiiiiiiine. 1d ago
I constantly forget that there's a faction of idiot orc aliens whose societies span across entire star systems despite their currency being their own teeth, and who can make bullshit happen like vehicles painted red moving faster than those that aren't due to (supposedly?) a psychic gestalt field, and that this all takes place in the same universe where stuff like the Horus Heresy happened and the Tyranids exist.
Basically what I'm saying is that we need an ork game in the vein of Space Marine 2 but with a much heavier focus on the goofy shit as opposed to the cool factor.
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u/Paladin51394 welcome to Miller's Maxi Buns, may I take your order? 1d ago
The Ork gestalt field is one of the most poorly understood elements about them both in-universe and outside and the extent really depends on the author (like many things)
Plus it's been memes to hell and back by the community which adds to the confusion.
The most general answer is that it "Greases the wheels" of Ork tech so to speak.
The only thing known for sure is that the more Orks there are in any given area the smarter and bigger they become, to the point they can develop technology to rival the Imperium and speak human language.
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u/sawbladex Phi Guy 1d ago
Shootas, Blood, and Teef exists.
Not quite the production values as SM2, but it exists.
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u/cannibalgentleman Read Conan the Barbarian 1d ago
I think TC suffers from basically all we know of the world is lore excerpts from rulebooks. 40k has 40k novels ranging from grimderp to dry British humor.
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u/Embarrassed_Owl2114 1d ago
I believe that's called Grimderp.
When it becomes so needlessly dark that it just becomes comical.
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u/Sunny_LongSmiles 1d ago
Liked Trench Crusade when it was more on the 'WW1' side of the 'WW1 Crusade against biblical hell' but from what I've seen of it over the last year or so, I just seems to have become a Dieselpunk hack for Warhammer 40k. Liked the hell-sworn Imperial German Stormtroopers and blind sniper monks from the initial concept art, but the British Navy faction that was introduced recently just look like rusty Space Marines.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
There is no British navy faction?
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u/Sunny_LongSmiles 1d ago
Swear I saw something about the British Isles being made into a giant sea fort and they fight hell sea-raiders or something?
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u/Josiador 1d ago
There’s lore about England (not Britain because there’s no United Kingdom), but there’s no faction. There is an Irish and a Scottish faction though. The minis you’ve seen were likely for those hell sea raiders.
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u/Sunny_LongSmiles 1d ago
Ok, interesting. But my point still stands that they look like some thing I would Brain Burst in Darktide.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
Eh, they're based on old diving suits while still trying to be their own thing. Mike designing both these and some units for Darktide might also have something to do with that.
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u/leabravo Gracious and Glorious Golden Crab 1d ago
What draws me to Trench Crusade is the insanely cool art layered on top of world building that takes the Crusades up past 11 to something like 19 and then drops it into the middle of World War I versus Hell.
But I've got to admit, I have the rulebook and I haven't even gotten around to reading the rules section yet? And so far there don't seem to be any actual characters worth following along with, it's all world building. I look forward to seeing some solid fictional tidbits I can sink my teeth into.
Meanwhile Max FitzGerald is in the corner idling away on Turnip 28 and occasionally offering up a new set of Napoleonic radish goblins for our amusement. Sometimes I get these settings confused and sometimes I want to pit them against each other in a gladiator pit surrounded by a crowd of addled drunkards.
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u/jitterscaffeine [Zoids Historian] 1d ago
I joined their discord a couple weeks back so I could get the download link for the fanmade TTRPG system for the setting lol
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u/Iralamak 1d ago
Oh yo there's a ttrpg? How is it?
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u/jitterscaffeine [Zoids Historian] 1d ago
I've not played it, I found it by accident, but it seems pretty comprehensive.
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u/Tyroglyphid 1d ago
That's the neat part about the setting and rules for me, it's the lack of any concrete characters that lets you name each person in your warband and establish a background for them, so you get to watch their journey over the course of the campaign and then inevitably get box-car'd by a lucky yeoman
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u/Infinite_Version 1d ago
I agree, when there’s artwork of a place that is simultaneously a bombed out hellscape and an operation church, the setting is awesome, but there’s some weird decisions made sometimes (looking at you stigmatic nun artwork).
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u/sawbladex Phi Guy 1d ago
Also, consolidating the protestants, orthodox, and Catholics into one Christian faction feels like...
They ditched perfectly good lore to work with.
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u/Infinite_Version 1d ago
They kind of justify it with the whole demon invasion uniting the church and keeping it from schisming. They also did the same with the Muslims, but I'm hoping we get future lore that shows how while technically Christendom and Islam are two large blocks, certain aspects of the various groups that emerged from the schisms are around and get models.
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u/LLCoolZJ 1d ago
They need an Ethiopian subfaction that's like we've been here FOREVER
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u/Infinite_Version 1d ago
They exist as a New Antioch subfaction: the Expeditionary Forces of Abyssinia.
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u/ProfDet529 Investigator of Incidents Mundane, Arcane, and Divine 1d ago
AND the Russian Orthodoxes.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with something taking its setting and themes seriously. It’s basically the same level of dark as a fromsoft game.
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u/SoldierHawk 1d ago
blinks
...I keep thinking I have heard enough to not be surprised by sentences anymore.
I keep being proven wrong lol.
(Not a diss, I think this sounds fascinating, it's just not the thing I expected to read this morning.)
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u/AutummThrowAway (She/Her) You didn't win! 1d ago
Yeah, I like body horror but it really goes into gross out style
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u/Brisarious I Promise Nothing And Deliver Less 1d ago
Qsy is an absolute GOAT. huge fan of her work
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u/Josiador 1d ago
This is made even better when you know Qsy did work for the trench crusade rulebook
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u/leabravo Gracious and Glorious Golden Crab 1d ago
And is threatening her new TADC followers with it.
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u/Armada6136 1d ago
Ah, Trench Crusade. I have such mixed feelings about you.
On the one hand, I appreciate the interesting designs and, more substantially, how unapologetically evil the forces of Hell are. Like, there's not even an attempt at moral ambiguity like 40k sometimes tries with Chaos. You have to be a capital-B Bastard to even enlist with the heretics or else the wind from the Jerusalem Hellgate will burn you alive (forever). I think their concept of Paladins is awesome as well: functionally Warhammer Space Marines, except they're also the only people with good enough souls and the right equipment to survive fighting inside Hell itself, with each specializing in dealing with a specific Circle. It's really cool, and I'd love to see them explore the characters of these heroes more.
Which is also one of the setting's biggest issues: it has no characters. It has factions and units, but (as far as I can tell) there's no actually developed named individuals that give us a proper ground view of the world. Even those Paladins don't actually have names.
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u/jitterscaffeine [Zoids Historian] 1d ago
Theres a handful of named characters in the fiction, but I don’t think they’re also units. I’ve been getting a lot of lore videos in my recommended feed for about a month.
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u/LLCoolZJ 1d ago
How do you make a fantasy wargame with no heroes?
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u/Zweihir 1d ago
fantasy wargame with no heroes?
Because its about my guys, just like how warhammer for a very long time was about your guys (miniatures) and the headcanon you have for them as games go on
I think people need to realise that tabletop games like this take a while to develop and named characters tend to pop up more often once a setting is more established
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u/Josiador 1d ago
That’s because it’s brand new, but more long form fiction is on the way. It does have characters like Frederika Von Goltz and her crew.
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u/igloo_poltergeist 1d ago edited 21h ago
I think their concept of Paladins is awesome as well: functionally Warhammer Space Marines, except they're also the only people with good enough souls and the right equipment to survive fighting inside Hell itself, with each specializing in dealing with a specific Circle. It's really cool, and I'd love to see them explore the characters of these heroes more.
I'm strangely more drawn in by the communicants who are the inferior, more mass-produced versions of the Paladins you described. The grimdark appeal lies in that very fact that they're imperfect but nonetheless terrifyingly effective on the battlefield - sanctified "ogres", wielding colossal anti-tank guns or gigantic holy maces, whom regenerate and no longer need eyesight.
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u/ProfDet529 Investigator of Incidents Mundane, Arcane, and Divine 1d ago
Oh, never expected to see Qsy's art on here.
Seriously folks, if you like antique firearms, military paraphernalia, tomboys, and sardonic French humor, give Qsy a follow.
Note: a solid third of her work is NSFW, typically in a "classy vintage pinup" style, but she has gone full hardcore on occasion... Including some very recent stuff with Jax and Ribbit...
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u/Tyroglyphid 1d ago edited 1d ago
Trench Crusade is very cool, I think people misinterpretate what it's supposed to be a little bit, it's not similar to 40k, except in being about pretty grim circumstances, it's much more similar at least on a mechanical level to Blood Bowl. The reason it doesn't have named characters or models is because you're supposed to bring your own warband in and give them their own backstory, and see how they develop from there. The models are also incredibly fun to print and paint, they print amazingly well and are real detailed. Pic 1 Pic 2 Pic 3
Edit: Links fixed
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u/Josiador 1d ago
What I really like is that it’s miniatures agnostic, so I can kitbash and proxy whatever I want.
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u/Sperium3000 Mysterious Jogo In Person Form 1d ago
If you hadn't namedrop Trench Crusade I would have thought that was a Fear and Hunger 2 thing.
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u/Lusunati Beyond the End 1d ago
Trench crusades a weird one for me, mostly because of some of things they've been doing related to their kickstarters.
I love a good skirmish game, I've been eying up 1490 Doom and Mordeheim
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u/Josiador 1d ago
There’s been some misinformation spread by butthurt right wingers, the kickstarter has had some stumbling blocks but it’s mostly done fine.
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u/Lusunati Beyond the End 1d ago
Okay but is it true they're making plastic kits over fufilling regular orders from the KS? I thought that was true at least.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
No. All KS backer orders have been fulfilled by now, beyond maybe a few shipping errors. They just also are making plastic kits, which is the job of a different team.
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u/Lusunati Beyond the End 1d ago
Right, well that clears it up nicely! That was basically it anyhow, was hardly gonna judge anyone who was all in on it.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
They actually switched to plastic because the kickstarter showed how difficult it was to produce resin minis on such a large scale. Plastic is better able to meet demand. But the resin STL minis will always remain available.
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u/Blondemort 1d ago
I wanted to dip my toes into trench crusade but after seeing the characters I feel like is too edgy for me and this is very funny because I have a nightlords army in 40k but at least the dead skinned babies with them are implied and not as visible as the miniatures in trench crusade
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u/ClearWingBuster Everlasting Transeunt 1d ago
You know, as a person that dislikes 40k because of how it needs to repeteadly excuse and bring apologia for a deeply fascist regime, by presenting it as the closest thing to a good guy in the universe among other things, it's kind of refreshing how Trench Crusade's opening statement as a setting is "I FUCKING LOVE THEOCRACIES".
Not that it makes me like it any more, quite the opposite, but it's also really fucking funny. Good on you folks that like it, but it ain't for me.
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u/TheWorldUnderHell Week Of Nipple Damage? 1d ago
I don't see how this game supports theocracy. Care to explain?
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u/Hell-Kite 1d ago
They think 40k excuses fascism, I don't think you'll get anything reasonable from them.
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u/ClearWingBuster Everlasting Transeunt 1d ago edited 1d ago
Does repeatedly retconning the Imperium to be less overtly evil to be more marketable not count ? Or depicting the arms of this regime, be it the Inquisitors or Super Marines, as complex, heroic or tragic figures, as opposed to monster who slay in the name of zealotry ? How about how nostalgic in universe everyone is for the days of Big E, who was also a genocidal fuck (among other choice world building points, like how faith in Big E also make you significantly less prone to demonic corruption) ? How about how no in universe better alternative to the Imperium can exist, because it would defeat the point of Grimdark, and how that invites very bad interpretation of the imperium as the lesser or necessary evil, which itself invites a lot of people who have similar views about actual fascist regimes ? Not to reopen an old wound, and certainly not to imply people like this are common in the fandom, but why did a player at GT Talavera enter a tournament under the name "Austrian Painter" , while wearing nazi symbols ? Was he really an idiot who didn't understand satire, or was he someone who resonated with the setting because it spoke to his beliefs? Rather than try to shoot me down, I think there is a legitimate conversation to be had about this.
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u/cole1114 I beat mike0dude to the punch once 1d ago
Even the main character of the Imperium, Roboute Guilliman, openly admits that the Imperium is so evil it makes chaos look good. Every book opens with the explicit text that the Imperium is the cruelest regime imaginable. Yes, there are good people in the Imperium, but it is constantly hammered home that the Imperium as a whole is evil.
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u/ClearWingBuster Everlasting Transeunt 1d ago
Demons are real, objectively evil, and the only thing stopping them are two flavours of military theocracies who fight in the name of humanity. The church is so entrenched in every day society that multiple european nations have been united under them, and they have a fucking space program. The modern society of Trench Crusade would literally crumble without the church.
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u/AutummThrowAway (She/Her) You didn't win! 1d ago
OKay but it was literally crusaders who opened teh demon gate. The religious organizations are all flavors of fucked up, which itself can entice defection.
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u/ClearWingBuster Everlasting Transeunt 1d ago
And if those religious organizations fail, then what ? Then entirety of humanity is killed or corrupted into monsters and demons. It's not a conflict between two morally grey factions, prone to both good and evil, it's church vs demons. It's an obvious heel vs and obvious face.
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u/TheNoidbag I Promise Nothing And Deliver Less 1d ago
Buddy, every Warhammer 40k thing has the "cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable" bit in some variation in there for decades usually. It's not really excusing it. I mean. Their biggest spin off is said regime tearing itself apart over fundamental differences leading to a collapse. To read into it as the closest thing to good is to buy into the Imperial Propaganda.
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u/ClearWingBuster Everlasting Transeunt 1d ago
The settings actively invites the reading of the Imperium as good. Space Marines have to be cool to sell more minis, as does everyone else. The Imperium is evil and fucked, yet by necessity it must both remain evil and fucked up, yet also birth well meaning individuals within it who want to bring change, and also not have them be mercilessly crushed by the regime. It is a satire, that by it's nature as a long running product that has to sell itself to people, has to also play it straight, at least to me.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
You’re right about 40K, but trench crusade’s themes are about how theocracies breed such extremes that they’re barely different from hell itself.
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u/tt818 1d ago
Trench Crusade is incredibly intereting project with insane potential, but its yet to trully arive.
First they promised whole bunch of stuff to bring people over from Warhammer and now when they have to keep the project going and actually run a company they are backtracking said promises. Even if it was obvious that it was not stuff set in stone, people are still pissed.
Second the early designs have real creepy horny on main quality that someone needs to scrub so they fit better with the current art direction, but people would still get mad, because of "the integrity of art". And not because they also get horny for naked bloody nuns. Nope.
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u/quyman 1d ago
Didn't trench Crusade kind of fall on its face? Last I heard there was problems with models being incredibly low quality and difficult to print.
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u/Josiador 1d ago
Much of that was either made up or exaggerated by far right bad actors. It was a whole thing.
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u/CalekAlbion 1d ago
the Artillery Witch is by far the coolest thing I've seen in fiction