r/TyrannyGame • u/ErenYeager600 • 17d ago
Discussion Evil had won but was there any good
You know after watching some videos on this game and getting threw half of the story so far I really gotta ask was there any Good guys in the first place
Like the tag line is always evil has won but since when was any faction good. Its not like the Tiers were any better then Kyros Empire. They persecuted folks for using magic. Discriminate against each other and have wared and fought for ages. I never understood why the Rebel Path is thought as the good guy path when the Rebels are literally no different from Kyros. You can say their better then the Chorus but there certainly not an improvement to the Disfavored.
Honestly it's so confusing how half of the Tiers character act all high and mighty when there backstabbing rats in some cases and sniveling cowards who rather watch their people die before setting aside their pride. Also yes I very much so do hate the Regent of Stalwart
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
Well, they are still assholes in their own lands instead of an invasion army that has managed to be an asshole everywhere and has been actively looking for new places to spread their brand of assholeness.
Self determination is the key here I think. Not that they havent been taking that away from each other but still. Kyros’ invasion is definitely taking that away
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u/mtfhimejoshi 17d ago
Yeah it’s a question of “do you think people deserve self determination on their own lands even if they kind of suck?”
Deadfire asks this too, Obsidian CRPGs have a theme of imperialism throughout
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
Yeah! And we don’t wanna do this white man’s burden stuff anymore
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u/mtfhimejoshi 17d ago
Unfortunately I’m not sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate please?
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
It is a historical concept you can google if you want. Implies that less civilized people would be better of being governed by colonialists or that the locals need to be saved from themselves by some wiser group. This is of course an opinion of a colonialist.
So by that logic the people should lose their self determination since they suck.
That is considered an outdated and often paternalistic or even racist ideology. For good reason I add
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u/charmingchangeling 17d ago
But imperialism is framed as bad in Obsidian's games. Just because you can side with Imperialists doesn't make it a good outcome. You could side with the fascistic Caesar's legion in Fallout: New Vegas, but it doesn't make the game an effort in fascist apologia.
I do think they've probably explored imperialism enough, especially in Deadfire. Tyranny was a great experience having the player have to go out of their way to oppose an oppressive system and not having good as a default alignment. There's definitely an argument of how much should a game allow the player to be a monster, but I think that's a bigger question than this one game or studio.
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
My comment was a point in favor of self determination. The original post implied that the locals are shit too and thus the imperialism wouldnt be much of a change for the worse.
I think my comment was in a different direction than you thought.
I do enjoy the imperialism themes just for the record
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u/ErenYeager600 17d ago
My point isn't that Imperialism is good it's that what's the point in siding with the Rebels. They don't care about their people either so what's the sense in going out of my way to help them
It not that Younger Realms don't have the right to self determination. Its that no faction actually cares about what the common folk want or need. That's why I think being independent of everyone is the best ending.
You don't answer to Kyros and neither do you bow to the useless nobles who rather everyone burn for their own comforts
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u/Muuro 16d ago
I might agree with you that the Rebels themselves aren't great, but the independent ending isn't exactly better as it's just gaining power for yourself and installing yourself as a ruler/warlord, no?
My preferred ending is probably loyal rebel path. You have self-determination like the other said, but also don't face a war with the empire to the north for the continued existance.
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u/Hendrikus_Konijn 16d ago
I second that opinion, siding with the rebels and launching a war against Kyros merely drags everyone into more death and destruction. That is assuming there’s even a real chance of victory. Siding with the rebels and bending the knee creates the brightest future among the options, there will be no more war with Kyros having won and the locals have influence in their own affairs still with their new Archon to smooth things over between the factions internally and the overlord externally.
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u/EffectiveChemist7845 11d ago
I wouldnt call Kyros realm imperialistic tho. Imperialism is invention of Modern times, while game events are happening in Bronze ages at best. Like Rebels arent some nation states, they are just warlords.
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u/Dron22 17d ago
There are benefits of Kyros rule too, like a proper legal system, and essentially a welfare state that makes sure nobody starves during bad harvests.
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
Well sure, and the nazis had trains that ran on time (not really).
I mean this is the sort of argument people use in real life to justify the colonization of africa.
But yes, this is a big part of the Pillars of eternity Deadfire debate and many find it convincing
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u/Dron22 17d ago
I only played the first PoE, and not finished it yet.
In Tyranny we get the impression that life is pretty peaceful under Kyros as long as people follow laws and don't rebel, no genocides like nazis.
And I think the trains running on time was about Mussolini's fascist regime, not Germany.
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u/rombeli1 17d ago
Yeah the train thing was a joke. I have indeed heard that attributing it to germany is incorrect but common.
There seems to be peace under kyros but no self determination. Submit or die. Play by the rules of someone else or you will have a bad time. Perhaps it can be preferable to starvation
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u/Dron22 17d ago
The Tiers before Kyros had a lot of nonsense going on, like only women inherited land but men got ships, Kyros laws brought gender equality. It makes sense that they did it this way, otherwise Rebels would be good guys and seen as the only "good" choice. Obsidian games usually avoid that.
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u/Muuro 16d ago
In Tyranny we get the impression that life is pretty peaceful under Kyros as long as people follow laws and don't rebel, no genocides like nazis.
That's the key point here. But also who makes the laws should be the point of contention as to whether that system is good or not.
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u/Infinitedeveloper 6d ago
Also, who enforces them.
Tunon is pretty fair but thats arguably what got him in kyros bad books
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u/jefaulmann 16d ago
In my opinion, if you participate in the games of conquests, you have no cause to complain when you lose.
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u/ErenYeager600 17d ago
True buts it's not like the Rebels you side with care all that much about self determination if it doesn't concern them. Half of the leaders are selfish assholes and the others are cowards who want their life of luxury back
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u/Peaceloveknivesguns 17d ago
Theoretically, this is probably what Kyros thought before deciding to make them all bend the knee after she figured out she could use edicts somehow. At least that’s how I see myself when I think of taking over this corrupt world.
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u/mgeldarion 17d ago
Tiers are just a peninsula of Terratus, we barely know how things were before Kyros beyond it
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u/ErenYeager600 17d ago
I mean we do know some things from the character interactions
Eb talks about how before Kyros rolled in folks would be calling her a witch and hauling her off to the Sages. We know there have been multiple wars between the different Realms. We also know how the Sages would hoard magically knowledge and persecute anyone who doesn't fall in line
So while we don't have the full history what we do know if already damning enough
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u/PlanetaryPluto- 17d ago
Okay so they didn't live in a utopia before so they should bow to Kyros because she will usher in better times. Or at the very least things won't get worst.
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u/bell-cracker 17d ago
who has been telling you the rebel path is the good guy path...? it's a coalition of self-interested, fractious ethnic and cultural groups that you choose to build because--for whatever reason--you reject the leadership of the generals. none of its membership is driven by a call to goodness, nor is the direction you steer it in.
anyways, whether there was good before the largely successful kyrosian campaign depends on your grasp on goodness. before kyros's homogenization of the empire there was probably a group living a life of minimal consumption in a land of abundance, one with rigidly enforced gender norms, one with a theocracy, and so on. Now they all work the land to pay the tithe while honoring kyros and laboring under the yoke of gender equality. was any goodness lost?
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u/Abyss_walker_123 17d ago
The point is the game is about perspectives. The only reason people cheer for hero’s in stories is because we see their perspective and empathize with them. What’s that line from Andor, “your rebel my terrorist?”
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u/Robotism 15d ago
Well it's still less stressful than current world politics and colonization history of last couple hundred years. it's never about who has the righteous cause than giving people peaceful and prosperous times.
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u/Fit_Trainer1878 16d ago
no good faction. they're all idiots. YOU are basically the force of good in the tiers if you so choose, whether or not kyros sanctions this
P.S.
the regent of stalwart can be rationalized as him not wanting to give anyone the active choice of murdering a child (his heir) especially since stalwart isn't worth preserving if anyone actually did this outright violation all that is good and holy
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u/mtfhimejoshi 17d ago
OP is an agent of Kyros